A Fighter Who Can Retrain Bonus Feats

[FidgetySquirrel]

For what it's worth...

You are on an optimization forum.

30+ pages of a certain thread later, and not a single person saying this isn't the case. At the very least, it would seem that most people agree that this forum has a lot to do with optimization. Not to say that's the only thing it's for, of course.

And again, I play low-OP. This kind of fix is precisely the sort of thing my group doesn't need. The fact is, however, that most people who are passionate enough about the game to post in a forum like this have an incredible deal of system mastery. They learned, long ago, that the wizard has to go out of it's way not to step on everyone's toes, and that the lowly fighter is good for hitting things, but stilll can't end an encounter as fast as a wizard. The wizard can do everything, the fighter can do ONE thing, and the wizard can still do it better most of the time. Hence, people try to help the martial classes, like the fighter.

I understand that this fix could be looked at as pretty silly. I disagree, though. With the right mechanics and solid fluff, it could come across as totally reasonable, I think.

Sorry I kind of flipped out awhile back, but whenever I see words like reality or logic in relation to the rules, I think of this.

Incidentally, have you ever used "my character would do X" as rationale for something detrimental to the party?

Uhh... how detrimental we talkin' here? I draw the line at 'might get someone killed.' But I'll inconvenience other PCs all day, we all agree that that's something we'll do.

[Renen]

Actually, reading this, it DOES seem like a good idea to let fighter repick all his fighter feats at a cost of a swift action (perhaps a certain amount of times per day).

[Yael]

Maybe giving it some kind of magic when they fight, and some int-related abilities, and some kind of level to those "tricks" you do when fighting... Dunno, increasing its HD to d12, and skills to 4+Int... but... I don't know, deja vu?

[VoxRationis]

The fighter doesn't need to forget his class features to make way for new ones (after all, that's the realm of wizards... Right?)

That is NOT the realm of wizards. A wizard's prepared spells are NOT the analogue of the fighter's feats. A far better comparison would be the sorcerer's spells known. And yes, I know they can retrain every so many levels, and yes, that wouldn't be a bad thing to give to other people, which is why you can find retraining rules in Unearthed Arcana. A wizard's class features don't change that readily: their spellbook and its contents. The wizard isn't forgetting anything, particularly given that, pace Spell Mastery, they never really "knew" the spells in the first place; they have them written down on a 15 gp cheat sheet.

And Flickerdart, that question—although I sense it was really a rhetorical one, meant as a sneer to the other posters rather than a real question for me— is a prelude to an ad hominem argument, a logical fallacy where you attempt to disparage and discredit me rather than my considered opinions.

[Flickerdart]

And Flickerdart, that question—although I sense it was really a rhetorical one, meant as a sneer to the other posters rather than a real question for me— is a prelude to an ad hominem argument, a logical fallacy where you attempt to disparage and discredit me rather than my considered opinions.

I'd prefer if you answered it, rather than attempt to read my mind and insult me by attributing malice where there was none.

[VoxRationis]

You expect me to believe that your question about whether I had done an uncooperative act, immediately following a lecture, only tangentially related to the topic at hand, about the virtues of cooperation, was not an attempt to find fodder to use against me in lieu of refuting my argument?

Anyway, Senator McCarthy, not that my role-playing is really relevant to this thread, the answer is yes, I probably have done something of minor detriment to one or more fellow PCs because I deemed it appropriate in character, but no, I do not do so habitually; most of my characters are good team players.

[Larkas]

That is NOT the realm of wizards. A wizard's prepared spells are NOT the analogue of the fighter's feats. A far better comparison would be the sorcerer's spells known. And yes, I know they can retrain every so many levels, and yes, that wouldn't be a bad thing to give to other people, which is why you can find retraining rules in Unearthed Arcana.

You're correct insofar as a sorcerer's spells known are fixed, just as a fighter's feats are. But a sorcerer's spells known are just as much an analogue to a wizard's spells prepared. If A is analogue to B and C, B is (in this case, I'm not generalizing here) also analogue to C. You may not agree with this, but your opinions and preferences are not the only ones valid in these boards, I should think.

A wizard's class features don't change that readily: their spellbook and its contents. The wizard isn't forgetting anything, particularly given that, pace Spell Mastery, they never really "knew" the spells in the first place; they have them written down on a 15 gp cheat sheet.

Where are you getting that from? The SRD is very clear regarding wizards' spells known:

A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A wizard must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below).

To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a wizard’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the wizard’s Intelligence modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Wizard. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score.

Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a wizard may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.

Save for a few references to pages, the wording in my PHB 3.5 is the same. The wording in my PHB 3.0 is also pretty much the same, as is the one in my PF Core Rulebook, for that matter. Wizards are constantly forgetting how to use class features they know. What fellow Playgrounders are proposing in this thread is just a fix in that the fighter does the same (though, as said at least three times now, they don't need to be fluffed as forgetting their feats). It's not a huge stretch by any definition of the word.