Why will the Belksters death be permanent?

[ace rooster]

Back in the throne room Belkar stated with some confidence that Durkon would raise him from the dead if required, and I think he was right about the sentiment, if not the practicalities. Obviously Durkon is not in a position to now (And Durkula would not), but he is not comatose. He seems to be aware of his surroundings, which include the fact that the only person who is trying to get the real Durkon back is Belkar (not to mention Belkar's genuine development, which Durkon has a front row seat for)! That is not the sort of thing that Durkon would ignore, and I would imagine he would try to ressurect him at the first opportunity.

The prophesy states clearly that Belkar will take his last breath ever, so it is hard to see him getting ressurected without violating it. As it was an official prophesy I don't think this can be an oversight either. I can see 3 possible reasons the ressurection does not come.

1: Ressurection does not work, or would do huge amounts of damage. Possibly suggesting that Belkar will be lost to the Snarl.

2: Durkon does not get an opportunity to ressurect him at all. Assuming that Durkon will get 9th level spells at some point (Does not even need the remains), this means that Durkon will also be permanently lost before he gets a chance.

3: Belkar has redeemed himself to the point of ending up on the endless battlefields of Ysgard. I can think of no place where the sexy shoeless god of war would be happier, so he may not return. I think this one is unlikely, as it throws away most of Belkars development (loyalty to the cause becoming a 'thing').

Any other possibilities?

[Steveio]

Option 4: Nobody in the Order actually likes Belkar and see no reason to risk him going back to a life of randomly murdering people after finishing up the plot. So they don't bother resurrecting him. Just because Belkar thinks Durkon would be willing to raise him doesn't mean Durkon actually is willing to raise him.

Haley believes his sudden change in demeanor is a ploy, and Roy doesn't seem too concerned about him dying.

[Gift Jeraff]

Durkula will kill him, dispose of the body, and Durkon (if he is ever restored to life) never reaches 17th level.

[Peelee]

Durkula will kill him, dispose of the body, and Durkon (if he is ever restored to life) never reaches 17th level.

17 level doesn't matter, as The Giant hates True Res (see Index of Giant's Comments for specific wording), and I'd bet my future degree that it doesn't exist in OotS world.

[ace rooster]

Option 4: Nobody in the Order actually likes Belkar and see no reason to risk him going back to a life of randomly murdering people after finishing up the plot. So they don't bother resurrecting him. Just because Belkar thinks Durkon would be willing to raise him doesn't mean Durkon actually is willing to raise him.

Haley believes his sudden change in demeanor is a ploy, and Roy doesn't seem too concerned about him dying.

Neither Roy's nor Haley's opinion matters, as the person making the decision would be Durkon. Durkon is the only person who has a good view of Belkars development and a high wisdom to realise that he is sincere. That would be good enough reason without the fact that Belkar is currently the only person trying to free Durkon; a loyalty which Durkon will feel duty bound to repay.

17 level doesn't matter, as The Giant hates True Res (see Index of Giant's Comments for specific wording), and I'd bet my future degree that it doesn't exist in OotS world.

That makes more sense, but still puts limitations on how Belkar dies (no locateable remains) so is worth noting.

[Kish]

I think you just lost your future degree. Haley talked about needing to track down a level 17 cleric to get Roy True Resurrected, not about needing to get a house rule revoked. And Rich said that a solar could theoretically have True Resurrected the ancient black dragon's son.

Whether it will actually appear on-stage is one thing, but thus far, Rich has pretty dedicatedly written around it, not plowed through it with a, "True what? Doesn't exist here."

[factotum]

I think it's entirely possible Durkon will die and stay dead, thus never having an opportunity to rez Belkar. After all, the only prophecy we have for Durkon is that he will return to Dwarven lands posthumously, which looks pretty much guaranteed to happen at this point--what happens after then is another matter entirely.

[Peelee]

I think you just lost your future degree. Haley talked about needing to track down a level 17 cleric to get Roy True Resurrected, not about needing to get a house rule revoked. And Rich said that a solar could theoretically have True Resurrected the ancient black dragon's son.

Whether it will actually appear on-stage is one thing, but thus far, Rich has pretty dedicatedly written around it, not plowed through it with a, "True what? Doesn't exist here."

Crap. Now I have to study liberal arts as well so I don't lose the valuable one.

[Reddish Mage]

Option 4: Nobody in the Order actually likes Belkar and see no reason to risk him going back to a life of randomly murdering people after finishing up the plot. So they don't bother resurrecting him. Just because Belkar thinks Durkon would be willing to raise him doesn't mean Durkon actually is willing to raise him.

Haley believes his sudden change in demeanor is a ploy, and Roy doesn't seem too concerned about him dying.

Belkar is he best thing in the comic right now. He is funny, he is showing real character growth, and he is the only one that suspects the truth about Durkula. We see the comic right now through his eyes.

Belkar is going to die, and it will be permanent, because to do otherwise would be to cheapen what will turn out to be a pivotal moment worthy of a main character's redemption. The order will mourn his death.

[malloyd]

I suspect Belkar will die at the story climax and then the story will be over. We'll never see why Durkon doesn't raise him.

Though I think destroyed by the Snarl and respected as a global hero for it, to highlight the contrast with the Order of the Scribble erasing Kragor's sacrifice, would be a pretty reasonable story structure too.

[Bulldog Psion]

Belkar will die as the unsung antihero of the piece. The others will dump his body -- if he has one -- in an unmarked grave and breathe a sigh of relief, never realizing that it was the halfling who ended up saving their bacon because his character growth was real. And in order to get that poetically tragic irony, the death has to be permanent.

Right now, we are seeing how the other characters are blinded by their preconceptions at the same time Belkar is shedding his. He sees himself with ironic, worldweary clarity, and sees Durk Malackssen for what he is. It's time to cue the noble but mournful music and get ready for the Belkster's last stand.

IMO, blah blah, of course.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The Order will get up to the fifth hour of the ritual...wrong dimension, sorry.

I think that the Order will voluntarily not bring Belkar back to life, or his death will be accomplished in a manner that makes bringing him back exceedingly difficult/expensive. Perhaps his death will redeem himself, but the Order will not be aware of that.

[Reddish Mage]

Belkar will die as the unsung antihero of the piece. The others will dump his body -- if he has one -- in an unmarked grave and breathe a sigh of relief, never realizing that it was the halfling who ended up saving their bacon because his character growth was real. And in order to get that poetically tragic irony, the death has to be permanent.

Right now, we are seeing how the other characters are blinded by their preconceptions at the same time Belkar is shedding his. He sees himself with ironic, worldweary clarity, and sees Durk Malackssen for what he is. It's time to cue the noble but mournful music and get ready for the Belkster's last stand.

IMO, blah blah, of course.

I think Belkar dying shortly a full book before the final, with the rest of the Order never recognizing his heroic sacrifice, will be tragic and mar the rest of the comic.

This comic just doesn't go dark that way.

[Bulldog Psion]

I think Belkar dying shortly a full book before the final, with the rest of the Order never recognizing his heroic sacrifice, will be tragic and mar the rest of the comic.

This comic just doesn't go dark that way.

Well, I actually agree he won't die before the finale. Not by much, anyway. But the scenario I described can certainly take place as part of the final battle, too.

As for dark? We've already got Belkar on a deathwatch and Durkon dead, possibly forever as well. While I agree the comic isn't as dark as some, I'm only counting on Haley and Elan making it through, with Roy and V as possible casualties also (though not as certain by any means as the doomed and the dead).

Personally, I'm hoping for a bit of tragedy in the end. Not entirely tragic, of course, but enough for the sake of a touch of art, or seriousness, or whatever you want to call it.

It seemed at last that there were two musics progressing at one time before the seat of Ilúvatar, and they were utterly at variance. The one was deep and wide and beautiful, but slow and blended with an immeasurable sorrow, from which its beauty chiefly came.

[Angelalex242]

Or you could be over thinking things, and Belkar gets killed by the snarl directly. As Lord Soon found out the hard way with his wife, the snarl, when it kills someone, destroys their soul. Even True Res and the Gods themselves can't fix you at that point.

[martianmister]

His death doesn't matter. OotS have no reason to resurrect him.

[Reddish Mage]

His death doesn't matter. OotS have no reason to resurrect him.

They will once he's dead. But what's to say Belkar will want to accept resurrection?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Or you could be over thinking things, and Belkar gets killed by the snarl directly. As Lord Soon found out the hard way with his wife, the snarl, when it kills someone, destroys their soul. Even True Res and the Gods themselves can't fix you at that point.

That is true. If the Snarl does work that way, then being killed by the Snarl is a sure way tone is forever.

[137beth]

I think you just lost your future degree. Haley talked about needing to track down a level 17 cleric to get Roy True Resurrected, not about needing to get a house rule revoked. And Rich said that a solar could theoretically have True Resurrected the ancient black dragon's son.

Whether it will actually appear on-stage is one thing, but thus far, Rich has pretty dedicatedly written around it, not plowed through it with a, "True what? Doesn't exist here."

Also

Spoiler: SoD

Show

Dorukan made an effort to bring back Lirian, despite not having any part of her body, so he must have believed true resurrection was possible.

The Order will get up to the fifth hour of the ritual...wrong dimension, sorry.

[boomwolf]

Undead do not breath.

Belkar would probably not find great issues with being undead as long as he is in control.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Undead do not breath.

Belkar would probably not find great issues with being undead as long as he is in control.

Well, if you want to follow a s strict interpretation of what the Oracle has said, Undead are still in this world, so being Undead doesn't solve all his problems.

[Darth Paul]

17 level doesn't matter, as The Giant hates True Res (see Index of Giant's Comments for specific wording), and I'd bet my future degree that it doesn't exist in OotS world.

Haley's words in this strip confirm there is True Resurrection in the Stickverse. What's that degree in?

[dancrilis]

But what's to say Belkar will want to accept resurrection?

I suspect that this will be the case, he will have an afterlife that he likes and so will not return.

Having said that the Oracle could be wrong, until Rich makes a direct comment on Belker not beating the prophesy it is still potentially on the cards.

[Peelee]

Haley's words in this strip confirm there is True Resurrection in the Stickverse. What's that degree in?

It's going to Kish, not you. Sorry!

[runeghost]

I'll throw out my pet theory again: just because Belkar will be dead doesn't mean he'll be out of the comic. Look at Roy and Eugene! Between Lee, Cedric, Nero, plus Sabine (and maybe Nale?) there's plenty of room for plot-relevant story left on the Outer Planes, and my money is on Belkar's afterlife being involved in it. Belkar isn't getting resurrected because he's got (plot) things to do after his death.

[LuisDantas]

Any other possibilities?

My favorite is that the OOtS will not even consider ressurrecting Belkar.

When you think about it, Ressurrection spells are quite troublesome. They cheapen death and cause a lot of unsolvable ethical dilemmas. If you are going to be spending diamonds and priest efforts to ressurrect people just because you have the means, at some point you have to explain how you are choosing the subjects.

Why would anyone attempt to ressurrect Belkar, who is not even much of an asset to society and is at least arguably meant to die for everyone's benefit, when there is literally no end to the list of better candidates? Many of the monarchs killed by Tarquin's schemes. Many of his former wives and their previous husbands, including Elan's mother. Roy's little brother. Any of the members of the Order of the Scribble, who might well make the difference in saving the world right now. Sangwaan, the seer of the Saphire Guard, killed in #429. Thanh, killed in #827. Solt Lorkyurg from #529.

There is no in-world reason to give Belkar precedence over any of them.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

My favorite is that the OOtS will not even consider ressurrecting Belkar.

When you think about it, Ressurrection spells are quite troublesome. They cheapen death and cause a lot of unsolvable ethical dilemmas. If you are going to be spending diamonds and priest efforts to ressurrect people just because you have the means, at some point you have to explain how you are choosing the subjects.

Why would anyone attempt to ressurrect Belkar, who is not even much of an asset to society and is at least arguably meant to die for everyone's benefit, when there is literally no end to the list of better candidates? Many of the monarchs killed by Tarquin's schemes. Many of his former wives and their previous husbands, including Elan's mother. Roy's little brother. Any of the members of the Order of the Scribble, who might well make the difference in saving the world right now. Sangwaan, the seer of the Saphire Guard, killed in #429. Thanh, killed in #827. Solt Lorkyurg from #529.

There is no in-world reason to give Belkar precedence over any of them.

I agree with this, except for one part. There is a reason not to resurrect Eric (Roy's little brother) because they tried it before and it didn't work, probably because he didn't want to leave Celestia. Trying again wouldn't work any better, so it would be best to try to resurrect someone they actually can.

[warrl]

Well, they are unlikely to Raise Dead any of the Order of the Scribble due to - for starters - lack of body parts. (They might have one of Girard's bones, but he apparently died of old age so can't be raised.)

The Order are among the highest-level characters currently alive in their universe. For assistance in the quest they would want to Raise Dead someone of similarly high level whom they can rely on to be on their side. There aren't a lot of such characters. Most of them will be far away from the action. Belkar is one of those characters and will be somewhere close to the action.

[evileeyore]

Belkar is he best thing in the comic right now.

That's like your opinion man.

The order will mourn his death.

They didn't mourn his slow torture under the curse, why would they mourn his death?

This comic just doesn't go dark that way.

His death would probably brighten the comic for most of the Order. The only character who'll mourn his passing is Mr. Scruffy.

[UristMcRandom]

My theory is that Belkar will either be unmade by the Snarl, or he'll somehow work his way up to the Chaotic Good afterlife and spend his days "...sipping single-malt scotch and smoking cigars rolled from poorly-worded legal documents" with Shojo (and possibly Mr. Scruffy).