The General Gaming Thread 3: The Innovation Sensation that's sweeping the Nation

[Morty]

I played the first Risen, and while it wasn't bad, it lacked that certain something the Gothic games had. And it really felt like the game assumed some knowledge of the world on the player's part - there was some vague background about humanity being wiped out by titans, but nothing more. And then Risen 2's demo suddenly drooped me right into a Caribbean setting with pirates and Hollywood voodoo. It's a step up from Generic Medieval Fantasy #4251, I suppose, but the transition was a bit jarring. Risen 3 doesn't seem to have a demo.

[Cespenar]

Playing Drakensang: River of Time, but isn't much sold on it. I mean, the DSA system is fine, but actual combat is pretty meh (Blackguards' angle was much better) and voice acting is cringe-worthy at worst and below par at best. Story, while nothing brilliant, paces along well, so there is that; but the NPCs and companions are nowhere near Bioware-level.

I think it needs either Witcher-level writing or Blackguards-level combat to be elevated to "good" from "playable".

[warty goblin]

Playing Drakensang: River of Time, but isn't much sold on it. I mean, the DSA system is fine, but actual combat is pretty meh (Blackguards' angle was much better) and voice acting is cringe-worthy at worst and below par at best. Story, while nothing brilliant, paces along well, so there is that; but the NPCs and companions are nowhere near Bioware-level.

I think it needs either Witcher-level writing or Blackguards-level combat to be elevated to "good" from "playable".

The combat gets a lot better - and a lot harder - once you get into the game a bit. I think it starts to pick up the first time you get to leave Nadorat. The story's never that great, to be honest, but I find the game to be uniformly pleasant in atmosphere and tone. Nadorat is probably my favorite fantasy videogame town ever, so full of bustle and life, simply wandering the streets is great fun. Seeing how all the game openings for different characters tie together is a lot of fun as well.

I can't say the writing is particularly great either. I think I prefer it to the stuff Bioware tends to produce, simply because both are mediocre to bad, but The River of Time spends a lot less, well, time on it. I'll take efficient crap over endless self-important crap any day.

[Morty]

Good Old Games got a redesign. No skin off my back, but I'm perplexed as to why they went for a "mobile-friendly" theme. Do so many people buy computer games through a smartphone?

[Gamerlord]

Good Old Games got a redesign. No skin off my back, but I'm perplexed as to why they went for a "mobile-friendly" theme. Do so many people buy computer games through a smartphone?

From the blog post, I got the impression that mobile-friendliness wasn't necessarily the primary reason for the revamp (The implication I got is that they are mainly getting ready for Galaxy*), but there isn't really any reason to make a shinier and more convenient UI mobile-unfriendly.

*Who knows, maybe that will have a mobile app.

[Cespenar]

The combat gets a lot better - and a lot harder - once you get into the game a bit. I think it starts to pick up the first time you get to leave Nadorat. The story's never that great, to be honest, but I find the game to be uniformly pleasant in atmosphere and tone. Nadorat is probably my favorite fantasy videogame town ever, so full of bustle and life, simply wandering the streets is great fun. Seeing how all the game openings for different characters tie together is a lot of fun as well.

I can't say the writing is particularly great either. I think I prefer it to the stuff Bioware tends to produce, simply because both are mediocre to bad, but The River of Time spends a lot less, well, time on it. I'll take efficient crap over endless self-important crap any day.

Nadorat is indeed well designed as a town, and the different openings is not a bad idea as well(as Dragon Age 1 proved as well), but the combat system is IMO bad at its core -- I don't expect it to get better. I mean, they give you different skills and abilities to choose from during the battle, which is a plus; but the combat is really just a bunch of people coming together and doing damage to each other -- no importance of placement or strategy, no way to judge a "round", etc. The archers and mages get attacked in melee and just calmly continue to nock arrows or cast long spells or whatnot: no penalties and no consequences.

I'm not really sure, Neverwinter Nights 1 and KotoR's combats were similar as well, but they still felt better than this (though not NWN2). I can't put my finger on exactly what's wrong, though.

[warty goblin]

Nadorat is indeed well designed as a town, and the different openings is not a bad idea as well(as Dragon Age 1 proved as well), but the combat system is IMO bad at its core -- I don't expect it to get better. I mean, they give you different skills and abilities to choose from during the battle, which is a plus; but the combat is really just a bunch of people coming together and doing damage to each other -- no importance of placement or strategy, no way to judge a "round", etc. The archers and mages get attacked in melee and just calmly continue to nock arrows or cast long spells or whatnot: no penalties and no consequences.

I'm not really sure, Neverwinter Nights 1 and KotoRs combats were similar as well, but they still felt better than this (though not NWN2). I can't put my finger on exactly what's wrong, though.

I can't say you're wrong, but that was never my impression at all. River of Time was pretty much the game that convinced me real-time with pause implementations of tabletop RPG rules were not, in fact, irredeemably horrible by their very nature. This was a view that KoTOR and NWN (to say nothing of the horrorshow that is NWN 2) absolutely gave me, since I found combat in those game to be maddeningly dull, both to play and to watch. RoT's choices always interested me more than those offered by assorted D20 offerings, and the parry chains made combat look reasonably like combat.

(I'm pretty sure there is a penalty for continuing to engage in archery when engaged in melee: since I think doing so requires giving up your parry action. This is extremely unwise against more dangerous enemies, since they'll almost certainly hit, and archers tend to have a pretty low wound threshold, or resistance to wounds. Much of the later combat comes down to trying to keep wounds from rendering your party useless. The same may be true of spellcasters, but I've paid much less attention to their rules, since I'm of the view that running a pure spellcaster in DSA is not a particularly wise choice. I'd much rather have a spellcaster/archer, or in all probability another frontline fighter. Not being able to wear decent armor in a ruleset with armor as DR and severe wound penalties is just too big a liability for a couple buff spells and some sorta decent direct damage. The archer variant gets all the important spells, but also abilities with a high chance to cause wounds.)

[Cespenar]

Eh. I mean, I haven't given it up yet, so apparently it's not big of an issue. Hopefully to remain that way.

[warty goblin]

Put in some more quality time with Risen 3 last night. I'm really enjoying this; just farting about doing quests and stabbing homicidal wildlife. Imagine, an RPG where the parry button does something actually bloody useful, but multiple enemies don't take goddamn turns trying to kill you. It's a freaking revelation, I tell you. It's not like the combat's hard, but it's fun and requires paying some sort of attention to positioning and timing. Also, pulling out a flintlock and blasting somebody at point blank never gets old.

If this keeps this up, I think I'll end up liking this better than Witcher 2.

[Morty]

That is curious. The combat system in Risen 1 was standard action RPG fare, and it seemed like the same was true for Risen 2.

[warty goblin]

That is curious. The combat system in Risen 1 was standard action RPG fare, and it seemed like the same was true for Risen 2.

Oh there's nothing particularly revolutionary about Risen 3's combat. It's pretty standard for the most part, but the parry is actually a reasonable defensive action. It's not failsafe or foolproof, but it blocks a high majority of attacks when employed intelligently. This means that swordfights look like cool swashbuckling swordfights, and not dodge-roll competitions interspersed with the occasional thing involving a sword.

Although the firearms are quite well integrated into the mix. Pistols are melee range only, just pull out and fire at whatever enemy you're engaged with. Full size guns like muskets or shotguns can be free-aimed, but are never particularly accurate, though they do some hefty damage. It means a person can switch between fighting with swords, and using firearms in a quick, intuitive and interesting way. I think magic works roughly the same, but I haven't used any yet, at least that doesn't involve turning into a parrot.

[Cespenar]

That is curious. The combat system in Risen 1 was standard action RPG fare, and it seemed like the same was true for Risen 2.

Standard action RPG fare? Did we play the same game? Was Risen 1 not where everything killed you every time in the early game, until you miraculously got to the point where everything killed you only most of the time and so on, until the mid-game or something?

[Morty]

Oh there's nothing particularly revolutionary about Risen 3's combat. It's pretty standard for the most part, but the parry is actually a reasonable defensive action. It's not failsafe or foolproof, but it blocks a high majority of attacks when employed intelligently. This means that swordfights look like cool swashbuckling swordfights, and not dodge-roll competitions interspersed with the occasional thing involving a sword.

Although the firearms are quite well integrated into the mix. Pistols are melee range only, just pull out and fire at whatever enemy you're engaged with. Full size guns like muskets or shotguns can be free-aimed, but are never particularly accurate, though they do some hefty damage. It means a person can switch between fighting with swords, and using firearms in a quick, intuitive and interesting way. I think magic works roughly the same, but I haven't used any yet, at least that doesn't involve turning into a parrot.

Always good to see a fantasy RPG that doesn't treat firearms as the Devil.

Standard action RPG fare? Did we play the same game? Was Risen 1 not where everything killed you every time in the early game, until you miraculously got to the point where everything killed you only most of the time and so on, until the mid-game or something?

Yes, but your murder at the hands of just about everything was accomplished through rather traditional means.

[Cespenar]

Yes, but your murder at the hands of just about everything was accomplished through rather traditional means.

Yeah, one traditionally dies to excessive amounts of damage.

[Zevox]

So, I picked up Soul Calibur 5 the other day, when X-Box Live was having a sale on it. Been playing it just a little, and I don't really have experience with 3D fighters in any real sense (the only others I've played being Soul Calibur 2 and a small amount of 4, and I was still basically a button-masher at fighting games when I played those), but my impressions:

The character creator is very much the highlight of the game for me, as it was for 4. It's been improved since even that iteration, so I've been very pleased with it. I tend to mostly create characters based on other media rather than make up my own, but it allows a pretty impressive range of those. The one thing that disappoints me is that it's impossible to make a male character that doesn't seem big and muscular, no matter how low you move the size settings for their body parts. Well, and I'd like a better range of hair styles, particularly longer ones (for both sexes), but that's less of an issue, and I'm sure I haven't unlocked all the options yet.

The single-player elements are pretty bare-bones. Basic arcade mode, a couple of slight variants of arcade mode, versus mode, and a story mode. That last is, surprisingly, actually worthy of the name (unlike the "story mode" in SC4, which was basically another slight variant of arcade mode with a little text tacked on the the beginning and end). But honestly, it kinda sucks. I feel a little bad being that harsh, since this is the first time I've seen a Soul Calibur game that even put in the effort to have a story mode, but it's true. The main characters are idiots, one an arrogant jackass who is pretty insufferable, the other a spineless doormat who isn't much better, and all the writing pertaining to their relationship is awful. The rest of the writing isn't really much better, frankly. And the presentation is weak, with scenes mostly presented as a series of images drawn on beige parchment, which are sometimes difficult to make out details of and just plain don't look very good in general. I'm just thankful that playing it at least got me most of the unlockable characters.

Speaking of the story, a little thing that kind of puzzles me is some roster changes. With the story skipping seventeen years since the last game, they cut some characters and replaced them with younger ones who have the same fighting style - but none of the cuts were older members of the cast. You'd think guys like Cervantes or Mitsurugi would be the sort to be most affected by such a time skip, but they're still around, while younger characters like Xianghua and Taki got replaced. (Ivy seems like another one who should have been affected logically, but I guess her being the series' sex icon means they'd never even consider replacing her.) Just seems kinda weird to me is all.

I played just a little of the game online, but so far, it seems fine. The netcode seems very good, as I didn't notice any lag. The gameplay itself I'm less qualified to judge due to my inexperience with 3D fighters, but so far I haven't seen anything that seems too off. I kinda like having super meter now - though my preferred character, Cervantes, doesn't seem to have a terribly good super. He does get throw he can burn half a bar of meter on for a big damage boost though, so that's pretty nice.

[Gnoman]

I've decided that my computer can't really support a 500+ GB Steam folder, so I've been wiping out completed games I'm not planning to revisit (Bioshock, for example) and bundled ones I never had any intention of playing, and half the time I don't have a clue where they came from in the first place. That leads to the next category of games I feel like I can do without on the HDD itself. Does Steam have any "archive content" functionality built in? I've got a number of games in my library that I rarely play (Civ III and IV, for example), but will certainly want to play in the future (Civ III, IV, and V are all different enough to scratch a slightly different gaming itch), and are seldom -if ever- updated. For games like this, I'd like to easily transfer them to CD/DVD (I know that simply copying folders is possible, but it seems to screw up a fair bit unless you're moving the entire Steam folder), so that I can put them back wen I want them instead of having to redownload the entire thing.

[factotum]

For games like this, I'd like to easily transfer them to CD/DVD (I know that simply copying folders is possible, but it seems to screw up a fair bit unless you're moving the entire Steam folder), so that I can put them back wen I want them instead of having to redownload the entire thing.

Right-click the game in question and select "Backup game files...". More info here:

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...8794-YPHV-2033

[Nilehus]

Well, I just finished Among the Sleep.

I'm going to go hold my two year old daughter for a few hours.

Seriously, that game ****ing hurt. Very powerful, though, even if I did see the ending coming after the first clue.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, I just finished Among the Sleep.

I'm going to go hold my two year old daughter for a few hours.

Seriously, that game ****ing hurt. Very powerful, though, even if I did see the ending coming after the first clue.

I watched that through Lanipator's Krillen Plays (which made it also hilarious as well as rather disturbing). Not the sort of thing I'd ever play myself, but damn, it really did the helpless horror thing well, didn't it? I was watching it with silly, screamy-Krillen the whole way through and it still managed to send chills down my spine. Which for a Lich, takes some doing...

[Zevox]

So I've been playing Assassin's Creed 4 the past few days now, and my reactions so far have actually been very positive. It's a bit too early to say for sure, but it looks likely that I'll end up considering this at least the second best game of the series (after 2), with even the chance of considering it the best.

As expected, the sailing and naval battles are still very fun, much as in AC3. The extra options they added during combat, such as the flaming barrels and mortars, are nice additions, and it does look like the game will be able to sustain some sort of challenge curve to it (although I may be proven wrong there, if I keep getting upgrades at the rate I have of late). The fort battles are very fun too, to the point where I'm actually kind of sad that there's a finite number of them to be had. Though I do hope that boarding ships doesn't keep getting easier as it has - I've already been able to take ships up to the size of a Brig by just using the swivel canons and a few pistol shots, before my crew even begins boarding.

More than that though, I think that setting this one in the Carribean like this actually helps make the overall game design more palatable to me. I'm sure most of you have seen me remark on my dislike of open-world game design before - well, having most of that open-world be the open sea means the land portions are considerably smaller and more manageable than in other AC games. Each is more of a self-contained "level," if you will, and that helps make things feel better to me. It certainly doesn't do away with all of my criticisms of the style, not by a long shot, but it does help.

What also helps is that the on-foot, assassin-y portions are also pretty fun and well-done thus far. I haven't liked sneaking around places this much since 2, no question. I particularly like stealing from plantation warehouses, which combines the assassin-style gameplay with rewards relevant to the ship portion of the game.

I'm also kind of liking the story better than any save 2's so far. I think largely because of things that it and 2's have in common: Edward has some actual charisma and a sense of fun about him, something I haven't seen in the series since young Ezio. Which is something I honestly think the series needs, since it's plainly incapable of writing characters well enough that their complexity or compelling personal stories draw you in when they lack any such traits. Further, Edward is not actually an Assassin, at least not up to the point I've reached. He sort of stumbles into the Assassin/Templar conflict basically by accident, and of course I fully expect he'll become an Assassin before the end, but the story at least starts as just him being a pirate with dreams of getting rich. Which, considering how weak I find the Assassin/Templar conflict's plotlines to be, is quite refreshing. And also something it kind of shares with 2, where Ezio wasn't formally associated with the Assassin Brotherhood until late in the game, and mostly learns their skills because they're useful in his quest for vengeance; which, while not a great story, was still significantly better than any other in the series.

Of course, on the downside, the combat (on-foot) is still easier than taking candy from a baby, but at this point I've pretty much given up hope on them ever fixing that. Guess I may as well just enjoy slaughtering dozens of men without breaking a sweat from time to time, eh?

My main worry from here is in how things will go as the ending approaches. Every game since Brotherhood has gotten noticeably rushed towards the end, likely because of Ubisoft's decision to release one AC game per year, so I sadly can't have much hope this one won't suffer there. I only hope it's more on the Revelations end of things (or better, preferably) than the 3 or Brotherhood end of things.

[factotum]

Though I do hope that boarding ships doesn't keep getting easier as it has - I've already been able to take ships up to the size of a Brig by just using the swivel canons and a few pistol shots, before my crew even begins boarding.
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My main worry from here is in how things will go as the ending approaches. Every game since Brotherhood has gotten noticeably rushed towards the end, likely because of Ubisoft's decision to release one AC game per year, so I sadly can't have much hope this one won't suffer there. I only hope it's more on the Revelations end of things (or better, preferably) than the 3 or Brotherhood end of things.

Boarding frigates and warships is quite a bit more difficult, yes--you often have to perform one or two special actions as well as take out a sufficient number of crewmen; for example, kill the senior officers, or climb to the top of the mainmast and take down the enemy's flag. If you really want a challenge, try going after one of the legendary ships (usually found in the corners of the map), which are *seriously* hard.

As for the ending, I found it to be just fine, although I'll admit the only other AC game I've ever finished was the very first one, so I don't have AC2/3/Brotherhood to compare with.

[Zevox]

Boarding frigates and warships is quite a bit more difficult, yes--you often have to perform one or two special actions as well as take out a sufficient number of crewmen; for example, kill the senior officers, or climb to the top of the mainmast and take down the enemy's flag. If you really want a challenge, try going after one of the legendary ships (usually found in the corners of the map), which are *seriously* hard.

Oh, I already made the mistake of trying to go after a legendary ship - wanted to check it out after I conquered my first fort and had it pop up on the newly-revealed section of map. Not gonna try that again until I've got near-maxed or actually-maxed upgrades. One volley of its canons took out most of my health, and my own attacks were hardly denting it. I stood no chance at this phase of the game.

[Cristo Meyers]

The ending to 4 is done pretty well. Didn't seem as rushed as they have been.

You also might want to keep an eye out for the next PS3 Assassin's Creed game coming in...November, I think. It very much takes after 4.

[Zevox]

The ending to 4 is done pretty well. Didn't seem as rushed as they have been.

You also might want to keep an eye out for the next PS3 Assassin's Creed game coming in...November, I think. It very much takes after 4.

Unity? I thought that one was set in France.

[Gamerlord]

Unity? I thought that one was set in France.

I think he's talking about Rogue, which is a last-gen-only game releasing close to Unity based heavily on AC4's naval bits from what I understand.

[Zevox]

I think he's talking about Rogue, which is a last-gen-only game releasing close to Unity based heavily on AC4's naval bits from what I understand.

Huh. Had not heard about that one. Guess I'll keep it in mind, but to be honest, I'm not a big enough fan of the series to be eager to pick up the new entries when they release, nor do I think I want to shell out the full $60 release price for them, so I'll probably wait until sometime next year to look for it anyway. Or possibly ask for it as a possible Christmas or Birthday gift or something.

[DigoDragon]

I watched that through Lanipator's Krillen Plays

I have trouble watching those. Because doing so leaves me laughing my butt off.
It's too entertaining not to laugh.


Currently playing GalCiv2 with all evil opponents on a map that's sparsely populated with stars (but each star has a high chance of having at least one habitable planet). I started off far in a corner away from everyone, but had a good neighboring star with three usable planets off the bat. Took a while to cross the blank ocean though, but once I did, I established the rich radioactive colony world of Phoenix I.

...and then the Drengin demanded fines for my colony ship's parking violation.

[Morty]

The dilemma of a broke gamer - do I buy the Dark Souls 2 expansion, or Age of Wonders III expansion? I certainly can't buy both, and even one might be stretching it... but they both sound like they're pretty excellent.

[Zevox]

Well, I finished Assassin's Creed 4 tonight. And I've gotta say, I think it's the best game in the series up to now, finally beating out 2. The piracy elements really work well with the Assassin's Creed formula, the sailing and ship battles are even better than in 3, and even the normal assassin-y portions were better than they have been since AC2. The interruptions by the modern-era stuff were thankfully few and brief as well. And wonder of wonders, the ending didn't feel too rushed, for the first time since they started doing the yearly releases.

I will say that Edward Kenway does turn out a bit more bland as a protagonist than I'd hoped, but he's still the best protagonist the series has had since Ezio. Ezio is still probably the best protagonist overall, though.

[factotum]

I will say that Edward Kenway does turn out a bit more bland as a protagonist than I'd hoped, but he's still the best protagonist the series has had since Ezio. Ezio is still probably the best protagonist overall, though.

Isn't that just because they put him in three games, so he had a much longer time to build up character? Or do you think they put him in so many games because he's just that good? (Genuinely curious here, as I said earlier, I haven't really played much of any AC other than 1 and 4, so haven't seen much of Ezio).