The General Gaming Thread 3: The Innovation Sensation that's sweeping the Nation

[Rodin]

I bought Legend of Grimrock 2 yesterday, and for those interested, it's even better than the first one!

Grimrock 2 has been kicking my ass so far. The Archives in particular has just been puzzle city, and after a while my brain starts to hurt. Currently stuck on the Path of the Eagle, which I just can't make heads or tails of. You know it's bad when you don't even know how to begin solving a puzzle.

[tonberrian]

Right now my problem (I just finished Chapter 2 where the airheaded angel shows up) is that Laharl is so overpowered compared to the rest of my party that I'm having a hard time levelling anyone else. Either I put him on the field and everything dies suicidally attacking him and provoking counters, or I don't use him and my other folks get rolled over. Jumping into random sticks of gum or cheap weapons puts me up against a lot of level 1 foes, neatly solving the problem (I just leave Laharl and Etna in the blue square).

Other than that, is there any place in-game that explains the different class requirements? I've unlocked a few classes, but (unlike FFT) the game doesn't tell me why they're there or what they're tied to. I looked online, but it seemed extremely complicated.

Mostly it's just levels. Level up humanoid characters of every class simultaneously (keep one of each class - BOTH GENDERS, IF AVAILABLE - at all times and level them all up) and you'll eventually unlock everything. The only exceptions require you to level up gun skill and bow skill, iirc.

Monter characters are different. You need to beat up one of each race to make them at all, and 30 to make them without spending huge amounts of mana.

Oh, and fourth-tier mages and skulls require levelling up one of each element. The two highest tier mages/skulls learn magic of multiple elements, but they miss out on the highest level of each type. Mages require levelling up the current tier to get the next one. I don't think other humanoid classes do in 1, but they do in latter games. There are six tiers for each class except prinnies, which only get five.

[Stuebi]

Grimrock 2 has been kicking my ass so far. The Archives in particular has just been puzzle city, and after a while my brain starts to hurt. Currently stuck on the Path of the Eagle, which I just can't make heads or tails of. You know it's bad when you don't even know how to begin solving a puzzle.

I had massive problems with the Ice Elementals in the second dungeon, and had to repeatedtly retreat and rest to kill all of them. Deeper into the Dungeon I encountered Mobs who could almost oneshot most of my guys, so I guessed that I wasnt supposed to go there yet. I'm on my way east now.

I didnt have much problems with the Puzzles yet, usually with Legend of Grimrock I derp around for maybe 2-5 minutes until I have a "OHHHH!"-moment. I find the Mobs actually harder than the Puzzles, at least at the moment.

[Wookieetank]

Right now my problem (I just finished Chapter 2 where the airheaded angel shows up) is that Laharl is so overpowered compared to the rest of my party that I'm having a hard time levelling anyone else. Either I put him on the field and everything dies suicidally attacking him and provoking counters, or I don't use him and my other folks get rolled over. Jumping into random sticks of gum or cheap weapons puts me up against a lot of level 1 foes, neatly solving the problem (I just leave Laharl and Etna in the blue square).

Other than that, is there any place in-game that explains the different class requirements? I've unlocked a few classes, but (unlike FFT) the game doesn't tell me why they're there or what they're tied to. I looked online, but it seemed extremely complicated.

Most classes are unlocked by hitting level 25 and then 50 with the base class for the most part. So if you get a monk to level 25 you'll unlock super monk, and if you get that monk to level 50 you'll unlock uber monk. This game was one of my first forrays into NIS games, so I ended up beating the game with mostly base classes, but then they were all 100+ by the end of the game. As for the more complicated unlocks, its along the lines of getting a character to level 50 in class A and another character to level 50 (or whatever, typically increments of 25) of class B unlocks class C. At least thats what I remember, haven't touched the game in almost 9 years, so my info my be a bit skewed.

[Gnoman]

Most classes are unlocked by hitting level 25 and then 50 with the base class for the most part. So if you get a monk to level 25 you'll unlock super monk, and if you get that monk to level 50 you'll unlock uber monk. This game was one of my first forrays into NIS games, so I ended up beating the game with mostly base classes, but then they were all 100+ by the end of the game. As for the more complicated unlocks, its along the lines of getting a character to level 50 in class A and another character to level 50 (or whatever, typically increments of 25) of class B unlocks class C. At least thats what I remember, haven't touched the game in almost 9 years, so my info my be a bit skewed.

So far, I've unlocked the next kind of mage (required one level 5 mage of each of the three types) and the level 2 "punch things until they die" class (required a level 5 character in the base punchy class). It isn't too bad so far, but the big problem is that Disgaea 1 requires you to win three solo battles with a given character before you can "transmigrate" them to level 1 and (if desired) a new class. (As I understand it, this was removed in the second game, but my info could be wrong). This makes it very hard to "class change" mages (who suffer heavily from elemental issues unless you pump their INT so high it doesn't matter), and is almost impossible for healers, so you either have to constantly bring in a "true" level 1 character (without the heavy stat boosts and kept skills from transmigrating) in or do without the new class until your character's vastly overpowered. In better news, it turns out that if you get a really expensive gun and give it to the angel, she does quite tolerable damage, so leveling her isn't as bad as I feared (Disgaea gives XP only on kills,so support units are very hard to advance)

[tonberrian]

So far, I've unlocked the next kind of mage (required one level 5 mage of each of the three types) and the level 2 "punch things until they die" class (required a level 5 character in the base punchy class). It isn't too bad so far, but the big problem is that Disgaea 1 requires you to win three solo battles with a given character before you can "transmigrate" them to level 1 and (if desired) a new class. (As I understand it, this was removed in the second game, but my info could be wrong). This makes it very hard to "class change" mages (who suffer heavily from elemental issues unless you pump their INT so high it doesn't matter), and is almost impossible for healers, so you either have to constantly bring in a "true" level 1 character (without the heavy stat boosts and kept skills from transmigrating) in or do without the new class until your character's vastly overpowered. In better news, it turns out that if you get a really expensive gun and give it to the angel, she does quite tolerable damage, so leveling her isn't as bad as I feared (Disgaea gives XP only on kills,so support units are very hard to advance)

I'm pretty sure that even in Disgaea 1 support and healing spells give experience. Just in 1 they give so little it doesn't matter. As for healers, since you will have three elemental mages to make star, you can turn one of your elemental mages into each cleric type - this makes them much more tolerable to level.

You do need a character with level 3 in bows to create archers, and you need archers to create some of the higher power female classes.

[Gnoman]

I never even considered turning my extra mages into clerics. I was considering using the master/pupil thing to give a cleric an attack spell with a couple disposable mages, but the other way is probably better. (Also, is there any downside to the larger spell patterns except MPSP cost and the chance of hitting something you don't want hit? I can't tell if they do less damage the more squares or not.)

[KruelKyton]

Grimrock 2 has been kicking my ass so far. The Archives in particular has just been puzzle city, and after a while my brain starts to hurt. Currently stuck on the Path of the Eagle, which I just can't make heads or tails of. You know it's bad when you don't even know how to begin solving a puzzle.

Yep. Stuck on Path of the Eagle too. Anyone able to offer assistance??

[Rodin]

Yep. Stuck on Path of the Eagle too. Anyone able to offer assistance??

I worked it out eventually. Think Indiana Jones.

If that isn't enough help:

Spoiler: Solution

Show

From the ledge where the Path of the Eagle sign is, follow the trench on the ground below. There's an invisible path you can follow.

[tonberrian]

I never even considered turning my extra mages into clerics. I was considering using the master/pupil thing to give a cleric an attack spell with a couple disposable mages, but the other way is probably better. (Also, is there any downside to the larger spell patterns except MPSP cost and the chance of hitting something you don't want hit? I can't tell if they do less damage the more squares or not.)

Nope, no disadvantage. Also, if you check, a two tile spell costs slightly less per tile than a 1 tile spell. This pattern continues, I think, with each added tile being slightly more efficient per tile than the previous version.

[KruelKyton]

I worked it out eventually. Think Indiana Jones.

If that isn't enough help:

Spoiler: Solution

Show

From the ledge where the Path of the Eagle sign is, follow the trench on the ground below. There's an invisible path you can follow.

Thanks Rodin. That was actually my very first thought, but it didn't work. I will have another go - perhaps I missed an activator somewhere? ? ?

[Cespenar]

Is it me or the creature AI has been improved in Legend of Grimrock 2 as well? The rolling tree guys are proving somewhat difficult to pass unscathed, for example.

[factotum]

Is it me or the creature AI has been improved in Legend of Grimrock 2 as well? The rolling tree guys are proving somewhat difficult to pass unscathed, for example.

I haven't got the game yet, but I watched someone play through the first 20 minutes or so on Youtube and it was already noticeable that the enemy AI was improved--the guy playing was trying to use the old "sidestep and turn" move which was so effective in the first game, and the enemies weren't stupid enough to just walk in front of his weapons like they used to be!

[Cespenar]

I haven't got the game yet, but I watched someone play through the first 20 minutes or so on Youtube and it was already noticeable that the enemy AI was improved--the guy playing was trying to use the old "sidestep and turn" move which was so effective in the first game, and the enemies weren't stupid enough to just walk in front of his weapons like they used to be!

There are still slow ones who do that, but there are also creatures with pretty unique dodge/attack patterns, which can make it hard to dodge in cramped settings. One has an auto-leap-back if they are flanked, for example. Another has a quick roll to keep on your flanks when you move.

Overall, I'm not far in, but it's pretty fun for now. And the graphics are surprisingly good.

[Rodin]

The enemies also speed up on Hard mode. Some of the later game enemies are frighteningly fast. The damage they deal on Hard is also enough that employing shenanigans is pretty much a requirement. My current group has 3 ranged attackers (Fire Battlemage, Missile Weapons, and Throwing Weapons), and my one melee person will only get a whack in as I'm retreating. Getting cornered against more than one enemy (even if I've chokepointed them to one attacking at a time) will generally mean a death, and 3 or more in one fight is a party wipe. It's all hit and move.

The enemies seem to scale to a certain degree, too. The weaker enemies will still go down more easily than the ones you meet later in the game, but their HP will still scale up to make them at least somewhat of a threat.

My Hard mode run has gotten bogged down in the Cemetery. Narrow paths + enemies rising from graves on both sides of you = Bad, bad times.

[factotum]

I've got the game now. There's a puzzle in the Twigroot Tunnels where you have to fall down a trapdoor, fight four rat-things, and then teleport back up--I was having enormous difficulty there until (on about the fourth attempt) I happened to land right on top of two of the rats, killing them instantly! It seems "telefragging" is a thing in this game.

[huttj509]

I've got the game now. There's a puzzle in the Twigroot Tunnels where you have to fall down a trapdoor, fight four rat-things, and then teleport back up--I was having enormous difficulty there until (on about the fourth attempt) I happened to land right on top of two of the rats, killing them instantly! It seems "telefragging" is a thing in this game.

If you land on them, they try to move back. If they cannot, they die. You get no xp for it, however.

There's also telefragging from a teleporter exit, which is a similar situation, but without them moving back.

I'm doing normal, and have completed everything up to the cemetery. Top of the pyramid was fun.

Main recommendation: Save your gold keys. At least in general. There's more gold locks than there are keys. If you like you can save, open the lock to find what's in there, then decide if it's worth it and reload if necessary. A couple of those key forcefields contain "really? That's all?" I mean, if you're not going firearms, don't open one with a shiny gun or lots of ammo sitting there.

[Rodin]

Main recommendation: Save your gold keys. At least in general. There's more gold locks than there are keys. If you like you can save, open the lock to find what's in there, then decide if it's worth it and reload if necessary. A couple of those key forcefields contain "really? That's all?" I mean, if you're not going firearms, don't open one with a shiny gun or lots of ammo sitting there.

Just don't do what I did and wind up with 3 Gold keys at the end of the game because you thought there was some epic loot you were missing.

As a general rule, I'd say keep a single key back to make sure you can "scout" the loot inside forcefields and such. If it's a reasonable upgrade, go for it. A fair bit of the absolutely best loot doesn't require a gold key at all, which means that the further you get into the game the less likely Gold key loot is worth it.

[Cespenar]

Turns out the Herder's Den boss is not a cakewalk if you come in without knowing how it works. Cue every square filled with mushrooms poisoning you to death.

Luckily my alchemist was also a lizardman, and my battlemage had 88% poison resistance or something, which then ended up carrying the other dead two members around and killing stuff one swing at a time.

[Zevox]

So, the Legend of Korra game made by Platinum games came out this week, and I finished it today.

Short version: it's a very budget Platinum game. The core gameplay is pretty darn solid, just as you'd expect if you've played their games before. You can easily dodge enemy attacks, but after dodging too many times in a row you get one that ends quite slowly and leaves you vulnerable. More rewarding is to counter enemy attacks by blocking them at the last second, but that's also risky, and takes some getting used to. Each bending style has its unique strengths and weaknesses that show up in how its attacks work: Waterbending is your long-range style, good for hitting single targets from a great distance, but with more limited damage output and crowd control options than the other styles. Earthbending is a close-range style with a lot of power and a small AoE on even the basic attacks, but its attacks are slower and it has fewer combo options than other styles. Firebending is a fast close-range style, though personally the one I was least impressed with, as it seemed to do the least damage, and I never found a situation where its speed was more useful than one of the strong traits of one of the other styles. And Airbending is an odd one that initially seems weak, but shows its true power when you charge up your chi, turning attacks that seemed near-useless into amazing crowd control moves that have twisters ravaging the field. All in all, a pretty fun core to the game.

The budget part shows in, well, basically everything else. It's short, even for Platinum. I'd wager I played for maybe four to five hours tops to beat it on normal, and that was with a surprising number of re-tries needed at a couple of points (the final boss in particular is quite hard, even on normal). The enemy variety is sadly lacking: you'll spend most of the game fighting the same three types of Equalists, with occasional fights with a trio of Triple Triad benders who are always the same, and a couple of mini-boss fights with giant mecha-tanks. There's a few others from the last couple of stages that are technically spoilers, but it's not much. Stage design and your steadily-increasing options as you unlock different bending styles and moves help somewhat to keep things from getting too stale, but it's a definite problem.

Speaking of spoilers, I was half tempted not to avoid them for this post, but I'm going to resist that urge. But in broad strokes: the story is very simple and unimpressive. Which is sadly not that surprising, given how the show itself has been, and the fact that this is apparently a story they wanted to work into the show but couldn't. It serves as a fair enough excuse to go fight stuff, but I can't give it any more than that. It is told partially through animated cutscenes, but the animation is noticeably inferior to what you'd see in the actual show (or at least, what I recall seeing in the show, since I haven't seen season 3). Again, they were very obviously on a budget here.

The game also features a few levels where you ride Naga around, dodging obstacles to reach an endpoint, which I found more annoying than anything personally, but that may just be a taste thing. There's also pro bending, which features a couple of times in the story mode and is a separate mode of its own that you unlock upon beating the story. It kind of feels like a very watered-down version of the main combat honestly, so I can't say that I'm a fan of that either.

Oh, and there's occasional camera issues. Because that's one flaw Platinum just can't seem to shake.

Overall? I sadly find it kind of hard to recommend to someone who isn't a fan of both Avatar and Platinum-style action games. Being one of those myself, I don't find myself bothered by having paid $15 for it - if it weren't for Bayonetta 2 arriving tomorrow, I'm sure I'd play through it a few more times right away just to keep bashing things with all those bending techniques, and even now I'm sure I'll come back to it after finishing Bayonetta to try out Extreme difficulty. But if you were just an Avatar fan who isn't much of an action game aficionado, it might come across as lacking in content and variety even for the budget price, and for someone just looking for a good action game, there's definitely an array of stronger options, from other developers and from Platinum themselves.

[Aotrs Commander]

So, I just got X-Com enemy Unknown (plus Enemy Within) for my birthday (because as one of the... TWO games out now I want and can get in hard-copy, I was damned glad I left it and waited...), is there anything I should bear in mind (e.g. tactics, not-obvious-but critical things of importance) before I start?

[Hiro Protagonest]

So, I just got X-Com enemy Unknown (plus Enemy Within) for my birthday (because as one of the... TWO games out now I want and can get in hard-copy, I was damned glad I left it and waited...), is there anything I should bear in mind (e.g. tactics, not-obvious-but critical things of importance) before I start?

Install Long War.

[Aotrs Commander]

Install Long War.

Which is what? Patch, mod, DLC...?

[IthilanorStPete]

So, I just got X-Com enemy Unknown (plus Enemy Within) for my birthday (because as one of the... TWO games out now I want and can get in hard-copy, I was damned glad I left it and waited...), is there anything I should bear in mind (e.g. tactics, not-obvious-but critical things of importance) before I start?

-Use Snipers with Squadsight.
-Manufacture plenty of satellites to keep a lid on panic and get income.
-When building your base, leave space for adjacency bonuses on facilities, especially satellite uplinks; that helps a lot.
-Make use of the Officer Training School's upgrades. Squad size increases are great, Wet Work for more experience is great, Iron Will is helpful if purchased early. Rapid Recovery or New Guy aren't really necessary.
-Move fairly slowly; don't send people dashing ahead, especially when they're the last or second-to-last to move.

[Rodin]

Install Long War.

Meh. I didn't actually like Long War. It's obviously meant for "game must be uber-hard" aficionados, and that just wasn't my thing. The balancing in vanilla is a heckuva lot less punishing.

It's very different, I'll grant you. The world map play was a lot better. I didn't like the changes to the tactical map near as much. Missions where you might as well shoot your entire team in the head before even starting it to save time just aren't fun. Losing the entire game because you chose the wrong thing to research early on is also painfully irritating.

It's an interesting game mode to mess around with once you're experienced with the vanilla game, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it to someone just starting out.

[Aotrs Commander]

-Use Snipers with Squadsight.
-Manufacture plenty of satellites to keep a lid on panic and get income.
-When building your base, leave space for adjacency bonuses on facilities, especially satellite uplinks; that helps a lot.
-Make use of the Officer Training School's upgrades. Squad size increases are great, Wet Work for more experience is great, Iron Will is helpful if purchased early. Rapid Recovery or New Guy aren't really necessary.
-Move fairly slowly; don't send people dashing ahead, especially when they're the last or second-to-last to move.

Noted. Fortunately, playing Maneouvre Group on the table top has honed my "interlocking defence/formations" and "manouvre" skills quite high...!

Meh. I didn't actually like Long War. It's obviously meant for "game must be uber-hard" aficionados, and that just wasn't my thing. The balancing in vanilla is a heckuva lot less punishing.

It's very different, I'll grant you. The world map play was a lot better. I didn't like the changes to the tactical map near as much. Missions where you might as well shoot your entire team in the head before even starting it to save time just aren't fun. Losing the entire game because you chose the wrong thing to research early on is also painfully irritating.

It's an interesting game mode to mess around with once you're experienced with the vanilla game, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it to someone just starting out.

That still doesn't tell me what it IS, though if it's something that raises the difficulty, it is probably not something I'm very interested in anyway (bearing in mind my normal level of play for any game is usually no higher than normal (if that's the bottom setting) or a one or two notches above the very bottom (for strats/4Xs). "Hardcore" gamer I ain't...! (I play to much stuff to be a "filthy casual", but I don't do the "sense of accomplishment for doing stuff" thing at the best of times: I'm usually quite happy rolling over spearman in my space-tank when playing Civ and so forth...!)

[IthilanorStPete]

Long War's a mod.

[Aotrs Commander]

Long War's a mod.

Right! Thank you. I remember it for future reference, though I suspect he chances of me feeling the game is so easy I want to make it harder is probably fairly low..!

[factotum]

People recommending that mod are probably people who played the original UFO: Enemy Unknown back in the day. That game had a bug in it which meant it reset to Beginner difficulty after the first mission, no matter what difficulty you selected at the start, and it was *still* capable of kicking your butt.

[Cristo Meyers]

People recommending that mod are probably people who played the original UFO: Enemy Unknown back in the day. That game had a bug in it which meant it reset to Beginner difficulty after the first mission, no matter what difficulty you selected at the start, and it was *still* capable of kicking your butt.

No joke. Early-game XCOM could be brutal. 'Course, end-game was usually a cake-walk. Ah, memories...

Speaking of, I've got a spare Steam copy of the original XCOM kicking around from when I pre-ordered The Bureau. If anyone wants it, let me know.

--

Been playing Shadow of Mordor lately, something light after finishing Persona 4 and Arena. It's surprisingly good, actually. I was expecting Arkham/Assassin's Creed with a LoTR skin, and it is that, but the Rivalry/whatever the heck they called it system really does make all the difference. Since the combat actually is difficult enough (for me) that death really is a risk I've had quite a few interesting encounters already. I'm finding that I actually want to go after the Uruks that've killed me. Not to grind, but because I just want to get my revenge. And getting said revenge after hunting down some intel to find out their weaknesses, and then exploiting that weakness to turn them into a gibbering wreck before I Mind Crush them is really, really satisfying. Haven't gotten too much into the story yet, but thus far it's not really pinging one way or the other. Hasn't really had time to develop.

Only gripe right now? They gave me two new skins for the main character, but when the game goes to a cutscene Talion's in his normal skin. Bugs the hell out of me and keeps me from using the new skins. Shame too, the Dark Ranger one is pretty cool.

If you weren't sold enough on it to buy it now, keep an eye and maybe pick it up when the price comes down.