Results 31 to 60 of 68
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2014-07-12, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Michigan
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
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2014-07-12, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Just add it as a class feature. They need the help, and way more than that, honestly.
No need to make it a feat tax.
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2014-07-12, 12:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2014
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- Michigan
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
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2014-07-12, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
- Location
- Gainesville, GA
- Gender
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
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2014-07-12, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2013
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
The rogue player in my group has not been having any problems tumbling around the enemies to flank, including monsters. He is bothered by his perceived inability to hit. I can see he doesn't hit almost all the time, but I find he does hit more often than he thinks he does. He would agree a rogue archer doesn't work. He tried that, but it was so much work for little gain.
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2014-07-12, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
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- Southern Oregon
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Diving all rogue talents into advanced and regular kinda ticks me off too. They get this whole "every regular talent must suck so people don't dip" (because apparently dipping is evil) mentality so you get very few non advanced talents that actually feel awesome. Y'know, instead of jsut making it like, a level 6 or higher talent or something.
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2014-07-12, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Or even level 4. There's rage powers and discoveries that require level 4, 6, 8... pretty much any even level above 2 (for such "choose from a list" features that are every even level....most tend to be) is fair game. There is no good reason for rogue talents to be either available off the bat or level 10+ with no in-between (or options that require above level 10, either). That said, even for ones that are balanced on being available at level 2... most are horrible other than the bonus feat options.
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2014-07-12, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
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- Elsewhere
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
I have a new question regarding one of my own favorites. I noted that I enjoy the Samurai, but I have a minor quibble: his sword. He gets wakizashi and Katana for free, which is awesome... if you are going one handed or two weapon fighting. Problem is that his weapon specialty ability only lets him choose one of four weapons, and only for the chosen weapon can he get fighter feats. Except while the Katana is an awesome one handed sword, especially since you get it for free in terms of proficiency... he can't take the slightly bigger and better Nodachi instead for two handing. I mean, he can use it, but his class features don't give him the option of specializing in it.
[10:15:05 PM] jack.of.thunder: if nothing tempts you, nothing tempts you. If no race beckons, none beckons. Cards fall where they may, where they might, where they must. That is how legends are born.
The Little Mailman
Garet Jax
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2014-07-12, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Ponyville
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Some, not many but some, Rogue Talents have pre-reqs. Most are along the lines of "must have a Skill Rank in Ride", and a couple have "must have this other Rogue Talent first", so there is some area for making it a 'basic' Rogue Talent that is not available at level 2.
A thematic requirement would be best, but even just saying "must have 2d6 Sneak Attack" would work well enough to keep away (most of) the 2 level dippers.
We could also just tie it to an existing Rogue Talent (like must have Peerless Maneuver), but probably best if it's not a strict A >then> B type thing.
Fun fact: There is _ONE_ Rogue Talent (counting BOTH Basic and Advanced) that has a Class Feature as a requirement. Sacrifice Self from Champions of Purity requires Evasion AND Improved Evasion.
Evasion is readily available at Rogue 2 and the Improved version is an Advanced Talent.
Yet, for some reason, Sacrifice Self is a 'Basic' Talent that requires an Advanced Talent to take...The ONLY way this makes sense is with Multiclassing.
Another fun fact: A Rogue can take Improved Evasion withOUT having basic Evasion first. Sadly, there are only 2 archetypes that trade away Evasion. Neither is all that great.
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2014-07-12, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Location
- Michigan
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Thanks for all the input on the tumbling thing. I talked it over with my players, and they seemed most receptive to the idea of it being a standard class feature, as opposed to a rogue talent, so I think I'll go with that, unforeseen silliness notwithstanding.
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2014-07-13, 02:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Add me as another one who loves the Warder from Path of War, specifically the Zweihander Sentinel archetype. For base PF, definitely either the Paladin or Ranger, though the new Slayer does look particularly tasty. If I were to throw in AD&D as well, it would be Ranger (being that Fighter/Mage, my all time favorite 2E class(es), doesn't fit this criteria). The 1E Ranger was just a really fun class.
Last edited by Jigawatts; 2014-07-13 at 02:20 AM.
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2014-07-14, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
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- Elsewhere
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Ive not read the completed path of war and I generally dreamscarred press, most of what i hear for them that isn't worship of how they are "so much better than paizo" is that their stuff is tends to be the stronger than anything and everything that should be of comparable power. It may not be true, but it IS what I hear.
Would two handing an oversized Katana work for a samurai?[10:15:05 PM] jack.of.thunder: if nothing tempts you, nothing tempts you. If no race beckons, none beckons. Cards fall where they may, where they might, where they must. That is how legends are born.
The Little Mailman
Garet Jax
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2014-07-14, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
- Location
- Canada
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2014-07-14, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Location
- Stockholm, Sweden
- Gender
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
This. The PoW classes are pretty much middle T3, comparable to say the magus IME. Which naturally means they do blow Paizo martials out of the water, especially when it comes to flexibility, while they're still considerably less powerful than full casters and the summoner.
As for favorite martial classes, I think the warder comes out on top for me as well, closely followed by the warlord. Both are interesting tactically, have good well-balanced mechanics designed for teamwork, and great flavor IMO.
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2014-07-14, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
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2014-07-16, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Recently had a fighter archer build I used to awesome effect. Most devastating character, most of the time, in that game.
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2014-07-18, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
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- France
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
The Fighter, yes, the humble fighter, because with one class, you can have a lot of viable options.
You can make from a fighter a great Archer, a formidable Two Handed Damage dealer, a efficient two-hander with a shield or another weapon, and a good brawler using an archetype or not, it was not the case in 3.5 but it can be in PF.
I'm not speaking of the versatility of the fighter but the fact that with one class, you have quite a lot of options, for me it is less true with the barbarian...
PF give me pleasure to use a Fighter in the game, the main isssue for me is still the lack of skill points and the lack of class skills really in accordance of a versatile fighter... but anyway, still love this class since ADD1...
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2014-07-18, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
3.5: Totemist is probably my favorite martial.
PF: Ninja, Bard or Alchemist (Hyde.)
There are plenty of dangerous nonmagical traps, and also, recasting detect magic involves a verbal component when the party is trying to be stealthy. Not saying rogues can't be made obsolete, but totally removing all of their functionality takes more resources than many folks are willing to commit.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2014-07-18, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
I didn't even bother mentioning non-magical traps because that's even worse. Anyone can find those via skill check now, and it uses Perception. The skill EVERYONE maxes and that uses one of the MAD rogue's least important ability modifiers: wisdom. Trapfinding bonus helps, but other classes get perception bonuses, too (except better, since it applies to all perception). Druid or Cleric with Feather domain; Archaeologist Bard; Ranger in a favored terrain (or all the time once he can cast Terrain Bond); etc... And of course a wisdom caster's base 20 in the stat alone goes a long way.
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2014-07-18, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2014-07-18, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
How is rogue the "stealthy one" beyond just having stealth as a class skill and often (but not always; the least sucky PF rogue builds seem to be the "Str Rogue" types) having high dex? Lots of other classes can and do field those same attributes or easily can with a trait. Many classes are better, such as having shapeshifting abilities and/or spells to buff their stealthiness or gain invisibility and so forth.
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2014-07-18, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- Southern Oregon
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
At least they can actually get HiPS in this version.
Even if it is the worst version of HiPS in pathfinder (which kind of just reinforces your point when the 'stealthy class' gets the worst version of the stealth feature).Last edited by squiggit; 2014-07-18 at 02:53 PM.
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2014-07-18, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Other classes are worse at it (clerics and fighters for instance tend to wear medium to heavy armor, which both limits their dex bonus and carries penalties on top of that.) Rogues also have talents like Fast Stealth, Trap Spotter and Canny Observer. For traps with attack rolls or reflex saves, you have both trap sense and uncanny dodge as well.
I'm not saying they're the best at it - nor even ninjas - but I do think there is a certain amount of exaggeration that goes into filing them away as gimped into uselessness.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2014-07-18, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Psion & Wilder tend to be weaker overall than Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric/Druid. Vitalist's closest comparison point is Cleric or Alchemist; it tends to be on the power level of the latter. Dread & Cryptic are both fairly weak (compare to Bard and Rogue, respectively), with Dread being weaker than its equivalent and Cryptic being slightly stronger through manifesting. Psychic Warrior is about on the level of Paladin or Magus, while Tactician is about on the level of Bard. Soulknife compares favorably to Fighter but lags behind Barbarian in the same niche. Aegis is roughly equal to Magus.
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2014-07-18, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
....so you think not having proficiency in heavy armor is an advantage?
Fighters can take off their heavy armor, or not wear it in the first place, if they think stealth is more important than the AC advantage. Rogues don't have that option without spending feats, because they aren't proficient.
Now, if a lightly-armored rogue actually had an advantage over a lightly-armored fighter or cleric as far as stealth was concerned, you'd have a point. But they don't. They have the disadvantage of not being able to choose to wear heavy armor without penalty...and that's it. They don't have a monk-style bonus for not wearing armor (however bad that is, at least the monk is given something). There are no classes which "must" wear heavy armor. There are some which have the option of wearing heavy armor, but that doesn't mean they are worse at stealth. That would be like saying wizards who ban transmutation and conjuration are somehow better at blasting because they have fewer non-blasting options.
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2014-07-18, 09:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
No, that's not what I said at all. Rather, Rogues are not expected to have heavy armor as an option.
Sure you can build a dex fighter or even dex cleric in light armor (for whatever reason.) Without a bonus damage mechanic the former will most likely suffer however, while the latter - well, it's a T1 class so there's really no contest if the player cares to optimize enough to fill such an unconventional role.
They have several advantages over a fighter actually - rogue talents/advanced talents, skill mastery, FCB bonuses for certain races (e.g. Dhampir and Fetchling), more skill points to let them get by with a lower Int, bonus damage to let them get by with a lower Str, etc. As for a cleric - yeah, a well-built cleric can beat them, but what does that prove besides having players who don't care about anything below T1?
You're right, the proficiencies don't make them worse at stealth - it's the lack of other supporting class features that do that.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2014-07-21, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
agreed, pathfinder rogues are fantastic dual wielding damage machines that have a ridiculously high amount of skills to make them be able to handle anything. at character creation i rolled an 18 and a 16 and i really hadto force myself to ake sure the 18 went to dex as much as i would love to be able to have and make all the skill checks. rogues are a force to be reckoned with in PF. they aren't the top 2 tiers by far but i would wedge em into 3rd or 4th without question
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2014-07-21, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexic
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Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
The top list goes for the Paladin, because he's insanely good. Combine that with Cavalier and you have a monster (A former DM let a player combine the levels for the mount, that was... Interesting to watch).
Then there's the cavalier and the fighter, battling for my respect. And finally, the gunslinger, mostly because -as it was said above- it rewards stunts.
Although barbarians and rangers are good, they're not my sort of warrior, even if I started playing D&D as a ranger, and still find the class awesome.MAGIC, n. An art of converting superstition into coin. There are other arts serving the same high purpose, but the discreet lexicographer does not name them.
Taken from The Devil's Dictionary
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2014-07-21, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: Favorite Martial Base Classes and why?
Since this thread has an explicite Pathfinder tag:
The Barbarian, never played one yet but it's the class that intrigues me the most.
Why: it's a mundane class that can not only dish out pain, it also gets tools and defenses against magic, and at least a little out of combat utility by way of skills.
I'd roll one in our current game, but it wouldn't really fit for story/roleplaying reasons.
Runner-up: a tie between Ranger and Paladin.
Paladin: Really greatly upgraded compared to the 3.5 Core version. Less MAD, much better Smite, reasonable class features, interesting archetypes.
Downsides: lack of skills; one of your class features is the ability to lose all of your class features with a single action.
Ranger: can be very satisfying to play as a Switch Hitter. In both Melee and Ranged, you are _almost_ as good as a Fighter specialized in either style, AND you've got a pile of skills that make for excellent out of combat utility (at least at low levels, before skills get replaced by magic).
If 3.5 classes are a thing, then scratch everything I said above, then the Warblade is the undisputed King of the Hill. Hail to the King!Last edited by Firechanter; 2014-07-21 at 03:55 PM.
Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.
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2014-07-21, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009