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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Jul 2014

    Default In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    So i made this build(only up to lvl 3) Unarmed fighter/MoMs Monk to get 3 style feats as soon as possible. So here is what it looks like:

    Unarmed fighter 1: Tiger style (human:power attack)
    MoMs monk 1: Tiger claw
    MoMs monk 2: Tiger pounce, dragon style

    My question is: Where the hell do I go from here? I thought about going for some bull rush shenanigans but I'm not sure how I would go about that (spiked destroyer and all that(taking only Merciless rush/squash flat is an option as well maybe in combination with Vicious Stomp?)).

    Other idea would to drop the Unarmed fighter archetype, skip taking tiger pounce and taking the brawler archetype for the hit/damage bonus.

    Or should i just continue through with the monk? Seems kind of pointless when i don't have flurry obviously ill get the use of a third style eventually but that is really far away considering i am playing in PFS.

    So any ideas?

    Thanks in advance
    Woodoodoo
    Last edited by Woodoodoo; 2014-07-12 at 07:39 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Nevermind.
    Last edited by BWR; 2014-07-12 at 08:05 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Jul 2014

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Aww well the 2 MoMs 3 brawler fighter did seem kind of appealing because of the amount of feats I get and the fact that I could use medium and perhaps heavy armour.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2012

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Tiger Claw is very weak, IMO. So is the stance, but you need it for Tiger Pounce, which is awesome. I'd suggest more carefully using your MoMS levels to nab great 3rd style feats and skipping level and 2nd feat-in-the-chain requirements. That said, the 2nd Dragon Style feat is actually pretty good (3rd can be ok, I'm not a fan of it), so I suppose you don't actually need both MoMS levels if that's the two styles you want.

    Two levels of MoMS would be better if you were doing Tiger + Snake, since both have amazing 3rd feats but horri-bad 2nd feats.

    Continuing in Unarmed Fighter is decent if you plan to grapple a lot for the DR. Otherwise, perhaps consider a whole new class. Unarmed Fighter 1 / MoMS Monk 2 (and possibly a few levels in something(s) else to bridge the gap till you qualify) would be a great foundation from which to move to a prestige class. But...pretty much all the martial prestige classes in PF suck.
    Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2014-07-12 at 10:34 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Well ****. Not the answer I was looking for. :p
    Wanted to try to make tiger claw work but your ideas sounds good as well.
    Seemed like tiger claw would have been good because if the free bull rush.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2012

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodoodoo View Post
    Well ****. Not the answer I was looking for. :p
    Wanted to try to make tiger claw work but your ideas sounds good as well.
    Seemed like tiger claw would have been good because if the free bull rush.
    It takes a full round action to use it and you only get the one attack, that's just poor. Compare to the Barbarian's Knockback rage power, usable 1/round, replaces only one attack, and available with no pre-reqs (other than rage) and earlier. Also, the obscenely high CMD of pathfinder has hurt bull rush the most of all the maneuvers. Only pushing them back 5 ft isn't that much, and you need to win by multiples of FIVE for each additional 5 ft back. That's crazy, and just not going to happen very often. In 3E when it was just a strength check w/ size bonuses, you could optimize the hell out of your bull rush modifier to send people far away reliably. Not so in PF.

    Snake Fang really is sexy, though. Every time a foe misses you, you get an AoO. And you can burn an immediate action to hit them again if you want, too. Just buff AC, get concealment from somewhere (cloak of minor displacement if nothing else), and enjoy.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Jul 2014

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Yeah all right although I don't think this character will ever get a high enough level to get cloak of displacement, this is PFS after all.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
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    May 2012

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Just stacking all the AC bonuses helps a lot. Consider not taking advantage of unarmored monk features and just using light armor (with brawling property!) and a darkwood heavy shield. Then enhance the armor and shield, get ring of protect, get amulet of natural armor...preferably in a different slot though, get dusty rose iuon stone, get +Dex belt... You can even use traits. Defender of the Society should work with mithral breastplate (it only counts as light for "limitations" so...trait should apply but also so should brawling property, I think). Fate's Favored is +1 to all luck bonuses, so just buy a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (worth the cost even w/o the trait) and enjoy another +2 to AC.

    But yeah, concealment is wonderful. It will never weaken. AC degrades if you don't keep it up w/ enemy attack increases, but 10% miss chance will always be 10% miss chance. It's not required, but it's very nice to have, and forms a 2nd level of protection along with the AC optimization.
    Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2014-07-12 at 04:45 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Wow! Thanks for the help! This will help me immensely.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    I changed my mind.

    Okay so i get it Tiger claw isn't the best style feat to take BUT I like the idea of using it and this character will probably never get lvl 8 anyways so how do i optimize the **** out of it?
    You probably understand the desire to try something cool out on a character even though it might not be the best thing around.
    Last edited by Woodoodoo; 2014-07-14 at 11:38 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
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    May 2012

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    ...What does level 8 have to do with anything? The beauty of MoMS monk is getting to ignore ALL requirements of style feats other than needing to have the base style feat. As soon as you have Tiger Style, you can use a MoMS bonus feat to grab Tiger Pounce. Full stop. You could take Unarmed Fighter at level 1, choose Tiger Style as your style feat, then hop into MoMS monk at level 2 and immediately pick up Tiger Pounce if you wanted to.

    Then (to continue the example of how awesome strategic dipping of MoMS is) at level 3, you could take Snake Style as your general feat and instantly grab Snake Fang (normally a 9th level feat) right then and there as your 2nd level MoMS bonus feat. You're now a 3rd level character (Fighter 1 / Monk 2) with what is normally an 8th level feat and normally a 9th level feat, and can make use of both together thanks to Fuse Styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoMS
    Bonus Feat

    At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat. He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat. Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style). The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path.

    This ability replaces a monk’s standard bonus feats.
    Those first two MoMS levels and the feats they provide are precious. Use them well.
    Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2014-07-15 at 12:26 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Okay okay let me rephrase my question forget about the tiger/snake combo what I wanted to ask how would you optimize tiger claw that it can be the best version of it self?
    I know its not going to be as strong as your combo but what is the best version of a tiger claw build?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
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    May 2012

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    I mean...generic bull rush optimization applies. This includes Greater Bull Rush feat and Lore Warden Fighter (big CMB bonuses). Bred for War trait gives +1 CMB, too. Or you could just build around the Shield Slam feat and get a bull rush on every attack. *shrug*
    EDIT: Also, if psionics is allowed, there is psionic bull rush. You can just pick a psionic race like Half-Giant or Ophiduan (probably the best options for your build) to avoid needing a class dip for power points for obtaining psionic focus.

    Then there's the critical component, where you basically crit twice on one roll. Not bad, but sadly unarmed has a 20/x2 base crit range, so it's going to be tough to really take advantage of that. Tiger Style does mean you can use the Keen property on an amulet of mighty fists (since unarmed is no longer just bludgeoning), so there's that... If you've got an ally with a keen 18-20 crit weapon willing to pick up Butterfly's Sting, that'd help.

    As for getting to close to melee and take a full round action... Buy a bunch of Quickrunner's Shirts? Each is 1000 gp and 1/day lets you move as a swift. At very high levels, Mounted Skirmisher also works. You could combine Sohei and MoMS, take mounted feats...multiclass to cavalier 4 levels and pick up horse master for a mount that won't fold like a paper towel.... I don't know.

    Any of that help?
    Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2014-07-15 at 11:19 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Yeah thanks =) I cant use psionics sadly since this is pfs.
    I was thinking of going the brawler archetype since it has a similar bonus to bull rush as lore warden and would give me that sweet bonus damage.
    Still wondering when exactly to dip into monk for the feats.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
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    May 2012

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Brawler is better up front, worse long term. You won't be able to use gloves of dueling, for instance (brawler's ability doesn't count as weapon training). And Lore Warden's blanket +2 CMB/CMD will beat out Brawler's bonuses on bull rush by Fighter 7, well within max PFS level.

    For the monk dips...generally you want them at odd levels so you can use the general feat on a base style and the monk feat on the 2nd or 3rd in the chain feat you're eying. More specifically...the min. odd level the base style requires. Snake Style requires 3 ranks in a skill, for instance, so best time to dip for Snake Fang is 3rd level, so you can take Snake Style as your level 3 and immediately also grab Snake Fang. Just using as an example since it's the tree I'm most familiar with.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

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    Jul 2014

    Default Re: In need of some MoMs monk (tiger claw/dragon style) assistance

    Thanks man you really helped me out. :) this character is going to be so fun to play

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