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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    Really? The wiki says otherwise. I only read the Captain Marvel team-up because... well, I was a tad attached to the character at the time.

    They may be out of canon, but that's such a questionably applied concept at this point that I'm kind of shrugging here.
    Oh, I thought you meant something else. There was Amazing Spider-Man #700.1-700.4, by the writer of first blood and another hardcover Spider-Man story. Both featured Peter Parker and both were outside normal continuity. Didn't know about the Captain Marvel team-up - it probably just happened before ASM 700, right? Or maybe it was during the early days, when Otto actually cared about pretending to be Peter (such as during Age of Ultron, which was actually supposed to feature Peter, but then they changed it to be Otto).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    Anyways, while there are some Marvel titles which certainly fall on the gritty side, there are plenty which don't. It's a eclectic of styles, tones, and general philosophies. She-Hulk, Captain Marvel, FF, Hawkeye, Young Avengers, Nova, Secret Avengers, New Warriors, Silver Surfer, Daredevil (and I'm shocked to have lived to see the day where Daredevil is a lighthearted and somewhat whimsical character since being Millerized), Rocket Raccoon, Superior Foes of Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, Amazing Spider-Man, A + X, and maybe Spider-Man 2099 -- none of these are dark, gritty, or particularly 90's-ish in any sort of way and came out in the last 3 years as ongoing or completed series. Most of the rest of the Marvel titles are only marginally darker in scope. Infinity, there major event since the relaunch, was entirely just heroes being heroes fighting cosmic villains.


    So, I don't see it. I guess. I see some bad comics, but since when haven't there been?
    Yeah, DC is the one doing the grimdark thing right now.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinken View Post
    So with the recent announcements of a woman taking Mjolnir and Falcon becoming Captain America, I've seen plenty of people complaining in social media. What surprises me, however, is that these people have clearly not been reading those same comics (since both changes have been foreshadowed for a lot of time). This seems to happen a lot with comic books - people complain about books they don't even read. Why is that?
    In my case......I used to read both Thor and Captain America when younger. I have tons of comics of both of them and love lots of the storylines. I stopped reading both years ago when they both went off in directions I did not like, and worse the art really went to pure crap. Even if the story was just ''so-so'' I would still buy the comic. If the art was at least 'average'. But the art is the final straw. The ''I draw and color like a three year old'' is just a stlye I will never like.

    But I still like the characters. And kind hope, someday, maybe, I might see one of them in a comic with a good story and good art....and then I could read a new story about my beloved character again.

    But....no.....

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    In my case......I used to read both Thor and Captain America when younger. I have tons of comics of both of them and love lots of the storylines. I stopped reading both years ago when they both went off in directions I did not like, and worse the art really went to pure crap. Even if the story was just ''so-so'' I would still buy the comic. If the art was at least 'average'. But the art is the final straw. The ''I draw and color like a three year old'' is just a stlye I will never like.

    But I still like the characters. And kind hope, someday, maybe, I might see one of them in a comic with a good story and good art....and then I could read a new story about my beloved character again.

    But....no.....
    Have you tried Ed Brubaker's run on Captain America because if not, might be what you're hoping for
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Just thought I'd chime is as someone who hasn't read the comics. My reaction to both announcements was...interesting. Captain America becoming a black man? No problem, didn't bat an eye. Thor becoming a woman? That feels wrong.

    Why it does, I'm not terribly sure. White male protagonist syndrome is a constant complaint of mine, and I should be delighted. But I'm not, and the first thought I came up with was the mythological figure bit. But that isn't right either, because we've seen that before - what is Xena if not female Hercules? But therein lies the point - Xena is her own character. They didn't say Lucy Liu was inheriting Hercules's title and say she is now Hercules.

    It's definitely irrational. But that gut feeling that they should either make a new character or at least give a new name remains strong. It's hard to resist commenting on something like that.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Just thought I'd chime is as someone who hasn't read the comics. My reaction to both announcements was...interesting. Captain America becoming a black man? No problem, didn't bat an eye. Thor becoming a woman? That feels wrong.
    Flip it.

    A black man becoming Captain America.
    A woman becoming Thor.

    It's not "Oh, Captain, sir...the super serum had some...side effects" or Loki messing around convincing Odin to try to teach Thor humility a different way.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by huttj509 View Post
    Flip it.

    A black man becoming Captain America.
    A woman becoming Thor.

    It's not "Oh, Captain, sir...the super serum had some...side effects" or Loki messing around convincing Odin to try to teach Thor humility a different way.
    Isn't the wording in Marvel's announcement phrased in a way to get people to discuss, debate, criticize, and take outrage to the development in the franchise? What we actually have happened is that Falcon and a completely new character takes on the mantle and even the name of an old character. The fact that they did two at once and did it to members marvel called "the big three" suggests a highly premeditated attempt at publicity.

    I don't read these comics and I don't have much of a reaction to the news aside from this. From what little I've read in comics made me feel they were far too thin and that the movies have much greater emotional depth and political significance then what I've looked at. From what I've seen, isn't Captain America and Thor better as characters then they are as titles?
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Isn't the wording in Marvel's announcement phrased in a way to get people to discuss, debate, criticize, and take outrage to the development in the franchise? What we actually have happened is that Falcon and a completely new character takes on the mantle and even the name of an old character. The fact that they did two at once and did it to members marvel called "the big three" suggests a highly premeditated attempt at publicity.

    I don't read these comics and I don't have much of a reaction to the news aside from this. From what little I've read in comics made me feel they were far too thin and that the movies have much greater emotional depth and political significance then what I've looked at. From what I've seen, isn't Captain America and Thor better as characters then they are as titles?
    Yes, but sometimes the best way to explore a character is to put someone else in his shoes. Captain Rogers dealing with his mortality. Falcon trying to fill his boots. Godhood lost, not as a lesson, but as a failing. Godhood obtained, and an exploration of what that means from another person's perspective.

    Although this is coming from someone who prefers to snag comics as collected storyline bunches, because, well, man, common comic book length feels about equivalent to a 10 minute tv episode. With commercials. It varies across titles though.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Isn't the wording in Marvel's announcement phrased in a way to get people to discuss, debate, criticize, and take outrage to the development in the franchise? What we actually have happened is that Falcon and a completely new character takes on the mantle and even the name of an old character. The fact that they did two at once and did it to members marvel called "the big three" suggests a highly premeditated attempt at publicity.
    It didn't happen "at once". It didn't even happen yet. They just announced the changes at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    I don't read these comics and I don't have much of a reaction to the news aside from this. From what little I've read in comics made me feel they were far too thin and that the movies have much greater emotional depth and political significance then what I've looked at. From what I've seen, isn't Captain America and Thor better as characters then they are as titles?
    Steve Rogers is a character, Captain America is a title. Thor Odinson is a character, Thor God of Thunder is a title.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    In this case, I don't care about the changes, because I basically have stopped reading Marvel comics several years ago.

    Besides, I had no initial problem with Thor's change.

    HOWEVER: With the risk of looking like an old fart, the combination of a female Thor and a black Captain do reek of "desperation to be relevant", which both Marvel and DCC has suffered from over and over again.

    Anyway, the true haters make me giggle. It was real fun reading the responses to Fem!Thor in a "Boy at least I'm not even half as annoying as these guys" kind of way.

    The thing that gets me the most though, at least with Fem!Thor is that Marvel, yet again, goes public and PROMISES this will be PERMANENT (Yeah, right, I believe you soo much right now). So that means it will last less than 12 months.
    So much this. These things don't matter in the slightest to me - yet I still find I have an opinion (which I'm going to keep to myself right now), because I grew up with them.

    I've come to the conclusion that "continuity" in comic-books is just not a good idea. And "different continuities" for different media is a worse one. It's not an ongoing story, it's a series of episodes of life that really should be self-contained and in any old order. The idea that "character development" necessitates making permanent changes in the character's life - or that making such changes will somehow lead to "character development" - is just silly.

    Edit: I will say that Marvel themselves have gone out of their way to stir up the controversy. Why else would they announce the change in advance? A more transparent attempt to increase sales (temporarily) would be hard to imagine. And how long the change lasts will depend solely on the sales figures; if they rapidly dip back to below their pre-announcement level, then expect it to be reversed very quickly; if they remain higher (I dunno, perhaps they're right in their cynical assessment that this is the way to attract more girls to read comics - it seems unlikely, but I assume they know more about their business than I do) - then it will last.
    Last edited by veti; 2014-07-20 at 05:39 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    And yeah as to to complaining part, people love complaining about everything. You also have the misogynists and racists making a point here because...well they're changing a white male character (Thor and Cap) into a female and a black man, respectively.
    Except for the same arguments being about Ben Riley. Or about Kyle Rayner before he was retconned into being irish-mexican. Or all those people who hated Jason Todd enough to want him killed off. Or any of the dozens of examples that make this post seem just as ridiculous as it is.

    Trying to pull the race card when someone calls out a publicity stunt for what it is is really, really cowardly.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Another interesting realization I had today was that flipping it in a different way doesn't provoke the same reaction - A black man becoming Thor, and a woman becoming Captain America.

    I guess it really does come down to the feeling that Thor is a mythological figure. If it's a super-hero, it's an alias that changes easily. If it's a super using the name of a god, there's certain things you expect. The only other gender-flips I can think of that cause the same thought are the "something-man" ones, for obvious reasons. If Batman's going on sabbatical, Batgirl/Batwoman can take over, but don't leave the name Batman.

    The folks flipping out over the Captain America one are the only folks I don't have sympathy for in this one.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Another interesting realization I had today was that flipping it in a different way doesn't provoke the same reaction - A black man becoming Thor, and a woman becoming Captain America.

    I guess it really does come down to the feeling that Thor is a mythological figure. If it's a super-hero, it's an alias that changes easily. If it's a super using the name of a god, there's certain things you expect. The only other gender-flips I can think of that cause the same thought are the "something-man" ones, for obvious reasons. If Batman's going on sabbatical, Batgirl/Batwoman can take over, but don't leave the name Batman.

    The folks flipping out over the Captain America one are the only folks I don't have sympathy for in this one.
    There'd be a worse reaction. Think the reaction to Idris Elba as Heimdall, at least squared.
    Last edited by SaintRidley; 2014-07-20 at 07:47 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintRidley View Post
    There'd be a worse reaction. Think the reaction to Idris Elba as Heimdall, at least squared.
    I meant personally. I remember that whole controversy and wondering at the time what the big deal was.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinken View Post
    Steve Rogers is a character, Captain America is a title. Thor Odinson is a character, Thor God of Thunder is a title.
    That's the idea. However, how separable are these titles from the characters that acquired the title? That is if applying "Captain America" to another person, who hasn't fought Hydra in WWII or been the worlds first super soldier or the title "Thor" to someone who is taking up the hammer. It seems from what I know of these characters that you are losing a lot and I haven't seen enough of the comic to see why we need some specifically to take the same title, perhaps job description? when there is so many other heroes in the marvel universe. I could understand someone filling in for batman or superman and taking the title as well, because in certain media, they are the only ones filling a particular role, there is no other protector of gotham or the universe in quite the way these characters do it (at least if you from some very narrow film adaptions). but from what I've seen of marvel, there are always so many superheroes, someone with something new can always fill in. Particularly, why isn't Falcon enough as Falcon? Why would he adopt a new name, or require a new title?
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    Particularly, why isn't Falcon enough as Falcon? Why would he adopt a new name, or require a new title?
    The significance of Captain America within the Marvel Universe, whose related symbolism and reputation is the closest Marvel has to Superman, is something the Marvel characters themselves feel as a consistent dynamic of their setting. In addition, Sam Wilson has been somewhere between a best friend and sidekick to Steve Rogers for years of comic time, it's not hard to imagine him wanting or feeling obligated to take on the title.

    I mean, I get your point, he has an identity as one of the first Black superheroes and that should be respected, but on the other hand it's consistent with his characterization and the respect the setting has for the character and his title.

    People taking on the title of Captain America is pretty old hat at this point, but new or old idea it's all about the execution.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    That's the idea. However, how separable are these titles from the characters that acquired the title? That is if applying "Captain America" to another person, who hasn't fought Hydra in WWII or been the worlds first super soldier or the title "Thor" to someone who is taking up the hammer. It seems from what I know of these characters that you are losing a lot and I haven't seen enough of the comic to see why we need some specifically to take the same title, perhaps job description? when there is so many other heroes in the marvel universe. I could understand someone filling in for batman or superman and taking the title as well, because in certain media, they are the only ones filling a particular role, there is no other protector of gotham or the universe in quite the way these characters do it (at least if you from some very narrow film adaptions). but from what I've seen of marvel, there are always so many superheroes, someone with something new can always fill in. Particularly, why isn't Falcon enough as Falcon? Why would he adopt a new name, or require a new title?
    Falcon IS enough as Falcon... but Falcon is also not iconic in the same way that Captain America is.
    Falcon did not punch Hitler in the face, for e.g.
    However... this is about Sam Wilson in the absence of Steve Rogers as Captain America, and thus becomes a story about carrying on the mantle, living up to the standard set by his friend and role model, striving to honor the role and achieve something even greater in order to maintain the presence of Captain America in the world.
    And yes... on balance being "Captain America" is absolutely "greater" than being "Falcon" in the ongoing story of the MCU as it exists.
    Meanwhile Rogers's story becomes about being a mentor and dealing with his loss and the possibility that he may never regain the power given him by the super-soldier serum while still contributing to the fight.

    Odinson? Well he COULD quest to become worthy again... or he might just fade into the background for a while and drown his misery in beer, ending up homeless on the streets like the Submariner did when the FF found him years after WWII.
    "Boohoo, daddy lied to me about my sister and gave my hammer away, boo hoo." *shrug*
    Lots of interesting story possibilities.
    Last edited by SeeDarkly_X; 2014-07-20 at 10:49 PM.

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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    @Shinken:
    I re-checked my sources, and in the earliest press releases (same day or day after the news "broke" in "The View") at least Marvel did officially say "This Is Not Temporary" regarding Thor. So that means we are back at "this will be flipped back within 12 months". It's my prediction.

    And in general I still feel that the two announcements combined indicates less actual progress and more "We need to make these guys RELEVANT, dammit", which never leads to good comics.
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2014-07-21 at 02:10 AM.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    And in general I still feel that the two announcements combined indicates less actual progress and more "We need to make these guys RELEVANT, dammit", which never leads to good comics.
    That's my point, actually. You're judging without reading the comics. Like I said in the OP, they've been building towards these stories for a while.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    It's been mentioned before in this thread, but I think it's worth repeating. I think a lot of people think that the only way to send a large company like Marvel (or any other company in the entertainment industry) a message is to vote with your wallet. If a comic book company pulls such a silly stunt like turning Thor into a woman, it's best to show your disapproval by not buying those comics. If you buy a comic to see if it's really that bad and you end up disappointed, it's no skin off Marvel's nose because they already have your money.

    Of course, reviews are a good way to figure out whether comic books are good or bad, but in my experience it's rare to find reviews that do not spoil a large portion of the plot.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
    It's been mentioned before in this thread, but I think it's worth repeating. I think a lot of people think that the only way to send a large company like Marvel (or any other company in the entertainment industry) a message is to vote with your wallet. If a comic book company pulls such a silly stunt like turning Thor into a woman, it's best to show your disapproval by not buying those comics. If you buy a comic to see if it's really that bad and you end up disappointed, it's no skin off Marvel's nose because they already have your money.
    You're missing my point.
    Someone else receiving the power of Thor (like has happened many times before, I might add) is the story Thor: God of Thunder has been building towards from issue 1. I'm not saying you can't like X, but complaining about X happening "out of the blue" and as "a publicity stunt" when it has been foreshadowed and built towards for about 2 years shows you don't really care about Thor (since you were not buying his comic for all this time). Why do you even care what they do with him, then? You haven't read his comic for at least 2 years! Probably more, because before this series they had replaced Thor again, for one of his villains, changing everyone's memory and basically erasing him from existence but everyone who is going "omg, it's awful, someone else gets the hammer, Thor is still in the book and is still in the Avengers" did not complain when Thor was basically erased from relatily and replaced by a villain.
    It sounds like bashing for the sake of bashing, IMHO.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinken View Post
    You're missing my point.
    Someone else receiving the power of Thor (like has happened many times before, I might add) is the story Thor: God of Thunder has been building towards from issue 1. I'm not saying you can't like X, but complaining about X happening "out of the blue" and as "a publicity stunt" when it has been foreshadowed and built towards for about 2 years shows you don't really care about Thor (since you were not buying his comic for all this time). Why do you even care what they do with him, then? You haven't read his comic for at least 2 years! Probably more, because before this series they had replaced Thor again, for one of his villains, changing everyone's memory and basically erasing him from existence but everyone who is going "omg, it's awful, someone else gets the hammer, Thor is still in the book and is still in the Avengers" did not complain when Thor was basically erased from relatily and replaced by a villain.
    It sounds like bashing for the sake of bashing, IMHO.
    This is entirely the wrong thread, but I'll respond to your point anyway. To me, the problem isn't someone being deemed worthy to wield Thor's hammer or Thor being deemed unworthy of wielding his own hammer for a well established reason like hubris. My problem is a woman, or in fact anyone who isn't Thor, being called Thor. Thor isn't a superhero identity, it's not an alter ego, it's a person (or rather, a specific deity). Being deemed worthy to wield Thor's hammer does not make one Thor, so a woman who wields Thor's hammer being called Thor is downright silly.

    Compare it to another legendary example. If I were to pull Excalibur from its stone, would that make me King Arthur? Of course not, my name isn't Arthur and even if it were it would merely make me Arthur II (to distinguish me from that other Arthur). It would, however, make me the rightful King of England, which is a title and not a name. The same should apply to Thor, a woman who wields his hammer should simply be called a woman worthy of wielding his hammer. Hell, we can even go as far as [woman's name], goddess of thunder.

    To compare it to another example, both Spiderman and Captain America have had their mantles taken up by black men in different comic books. But that's because Spiderman and Captain America are not names, they're mantles, personas, alter-egos, icons. Another person becoming Spiderman makes sense, another person becoming Peter Parker is silly. I feel the same about someone else, no matter who it is, taking up the name of Thor rather than the title of god of thunder.
    Last edited by Kaeso; 2014-07-21 at 07:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
    This is entirely the wrong thread, but I'll respond to your point anyway. To me, the problem isn't someone being deemed worthy to wield Thor's hammer or Thor being deemed unworthy of wielding his own hammer for a well established reason like hubris. My problem is a woman, or in fact anyone who isn't Thor, being called Thor. Thor isn't a superhero identity, it's not an alter ego, it's a person (or rather, a specific deity). Being deemed worthy to wield Thor's hammer does not make one Thor, so a woman who wields Thor's hammer being called Thor is downright silly.

    Compare it to another legendary example. If I were to pull Excalibur from its stone, would that make me King Arthur? Of course not, my name isn't Arthur and even if it were it would merely make me Arthur II (to distinguish me from that other Arthur). It would, however, make me the rightful King of England, which is a title and not a name. The same should apply to Thor, a woman who wields his hammer should simply be called a woman worthy of wielding his hammer. Hell, we can even go as far as [woman's name], goddess of thunder.

    To compare it to another example, both Spiderman and Captain America have had their mantles taken up by black man in different comic books. But that's because Spiderman and Captain America are not names, they're mantles, personas, alter-egos, icons. Another person becoming Spiderman makes sense, another person becoming Peter Parker is silly. I feel the same about someone else, no matter who it is, taking up the name of Thor rather than the title of god of thunder.
    Generally correct, but wrong in the Marvel Universe.
    As people have said already, it's already been done.
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    And not only was Thor once a Frog, there's also an entirely separate Frog-Thor;
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    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2014-07-21 at 07:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    Generally correct, but wrong in the Marvel Universe.
    As people have said already, it's already been done.
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    And not only was Thor once a Frog, there's also an entirely separate Frog-Thor;
    Spoiler: Throg
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    That would not change my opinion. If it is Thor being turned into something else, it could be silly but it's still Thor, just with a different appearance. Such a thing as an entirely separate Frog-Thor faces the same complaints as in my above post: it's simply not Thor (unless it's a literal clone of Thor turned into a frog, I guess).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
    This is entirely the wrong thread, but I'll respond to your point anyway. To me, the problem isn't someone being deemed worthy to wield Thor's hammer or Thor being deemed unworthy of wielding his own hammer for a well established reason like hubris. My problem is a woman, or in fact anyone who isn't Thor, being called Thor. Thor isn't a superhero identity, it's not an alter ego, it's a person (or rather, a specific deity). Being deemed worthy to wield Thor's hammer does not make one Thor, so a woman who wields Thor's hammer being called Thor is downright silly.
    That's not how it works in the Marvel U. When Beta Ray Bill took Thor's place, he was called Thor as well.
    EDIT: ninja'd
    EDIT2: The Thor Odinson we know and love is not even the first Thor in the Marvel U, btw.
    Last edited by Shinken; 2014-07-21 at 07:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeso View Post
    That would not change my opinion. If it is Thor being turned into something else, it could be silly but it's still Thor, just with a different appearance. Such a thing as an entirely separate Frog-Thor faces the same complaints as in my above post: it's simply not Thor (unless it's a literal clone of Thor turned into a frog, I guess).
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinken View Post
    That's not how it works in the Marvel U. When Beta Ray Bill took Thor's place, he was called Thor as well.
    EDIT: ninja'd
    EDIT2: The Thor Odinson we know and love is not even the first Thor in the Marvel U, btw.
    Yeah, his name was Beta Ray Bill, he's some kind of cyborg space horse. He kicked Thor's ass, took Thor's hammer and Thor's name and had, what, a year or so as the main character?
    EDIT - Frog Thor was Thor as a frog. Throg is some guy called Simon something? He got turned into a frog and given the name Puddlegulp by the other frogs, then ended up empowered with the might of thor via coming into possession of a chip of Thor's hammer when Frog-Thor came to help them...fight...rats. Uuh. I haven't read that one, it's just off a wiki site. I'm pretty sure the article hasn't been vandalised.
    Last edited by Tiki Snakes; 2014-07-21 at 07:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shinken View Post
    That's not how it works in the Marvel U. When Beta Ray Bill took Thor's place, he was called Thor as well.
    EDIT: ninja'd
    EDIT2: The Thor Odinson we know and love is not even the first Thor in the Marvel U, btw.
    As far as I remember, 99% of all people, including himself, called Beta Ray Bill Beta Ray Bill, not Thor, after he got the hammer. To be fair, it was a NEW hammer, Not Mjolnir though.

    And yes, I know, they for some reason, after people complained and said Thor should be a redhead, put in a "rumor has it that long ago there was another Thor, who was a redhead" thing in the backstory, which nobody talks about, ever.

    Also, this:


    Storm was still Storm when having the hammer. Even as she explicitly was named "Goddess of Thunder" she was NOT called "Thor".
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2014-07-21 at 08:07 AM.
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    Erik Masterson was explicitly called Thor, though.
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    Also, this:


    Storm was still Storm when having the hammer. Even as she explicitly was named "Goddess of Thunder" she was NOT called "Thor".
    To the best of my wiki-specific knowledge, didn't she have her own hammer that gave her comparable powers, rather than Mjolnir itself?

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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    To the best of my wiki-specific knowledge, didn't she have her own hammer that gave her comparable powers, rather than Mjolnir itself?
    True. She has used Mjolnir at at least one other occasion, though. And still wasn't "Thor" while holding it.

    Anyway, the complaint still stands. Thor, the person, existed before the hammer was forged (even if there was a redheaded variant "long ago"). He is also named "Odinson", which means he is (and this has not been disputed in the comic, AFAIK) actually, physically, the son of Odin (like in the real myths). He doesn't stop being Odin's son, just because he loses his powers. Nor does this new woman become Odin's Son (Odinsdottir?) because she takes up the hammer. If that was the case, she should also automatically become married to Sif, for example.
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    Default Re: Why so many people complain about comic books they don't read?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    As far as I remember, 99% of all people, including himself, called Beta Ray Bill Beta Ray Bill, not Thor, after he got the hammer. To be fair, it was a NEW hammer, Not Mjolnir though.
    You're remembering it wrong. There was a period of time when Beta Ray Bill had Mjolnir and replaced Thor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    To the best of my wiki-specific knowledge, didn't she have her own hammer that gave her comparable powers, rather than Mjolnir itself?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SaintRidley View Post
    Erik Masterson was explicitly called Thor, though.
    As well as the cameraman dude, but that was a single issue thing, IIRC
    Last edited by Shinken; 2014-07-21 at 08:30 AM.

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