So I've made the ultimate Anti-Mage???

[Vhaidara]

Having a meeting spot that people gather to (like a large trade city) is a far cry from a communication network comparable of the modern day's. It's all word of mouth, it would travel much slower. Which helps this sort of character concept.

Excuse me, but are you imply high level wizards don't all make items of at will quickened sending, aka Twitter? I can elaborate it when I get home, but it involves a golem server.

[Juntao112]

Having a meeting spot that people gather to (like a large trade city) is a far cry from a communication network comparable of the modern day's. It's all word of mouth, it would travel much slower. Which helps this sort of character concept.

Word of mouth travels faster than you do.

[MirddinEmris]

I don't think "pixie" is the right rank for a topic starter. I think he deserves more.

[Brookshw]

Having a meeting spot that people gather to (like a large trade city) is a far cry from a communication network comparable of the modern day's. It's all word of mouth, it would travel much slower. Which helps this sort of character concept.

Doesn't Eberron have a house that specifically facilitates this?

I don't know, but we've seen organizations in various settings that definitely sat up and took notice, often proactively policing certain issues.

Going back to the council of 8, this wasn't just 8 people, it was 8 people who commanded massive power and respective organizations. Likewise if your small gathering is Elminster, Mordenkain and Raistlin, well, at least the first two definitely had connections and get things done (M's even on that council).

Also, sending stones.

You don't need this in every setting or game, but its kinda there.

[Seppo87]

Word of mouth travels faster than you do.

This is common in fiction, but how is it even possible?

[SethoMarkus]

I'm more concerned with how a character such as this would reach level 20. I'm assuming that the character was created at level 20 (and I sure hope that the other players also had characters that started at 20), and this makes sense from an OOC perspective. However, IC, how did a "mage-slayer" such as this come about? Even assuming that he really is invincible against mages at his capstone of 20, surely he would be able to be defeated at lower levels. Did he simply wait until he was level 20 to start hunting mages? What did he do to gain experience up to that point? Did mages just sit back and wait for him to come to power?

I never understood high-level mundane anti-mage builds. Unless the character is part of some sort of (magical) organization and used specifically to counter other threats, such as an Inquisitor or some such, it doesn't make sense to me. Only in low-level, low-optimization campaigns does a mundane "mage-slayer" make any sense, and even then it would be against budding, lower level magic users.

[Somensjev]

I'm more concerned with how a character such as this would reach level 20. I'm assuming that the character was created at level 20 (and I sure hope that the other players also had characters that started at 20), and this makes sense from an OOC perspective. However, IC, how did a "mage-slayer" such as this come about? Even assuming that he really is invincible against mages at his capstone of 20, surely he would be able to be defeated at lower levels. Did he simply wait until he was level 20 to start hunting mages? What did he do to gain experience up to that point? Did mages just sit back and wait for him to come to power?

I never understood high-level mundane anti-mage builds. Unless the character is part of some sort of (magical) organization and used specifically to counter other threats, such as an Inquisitor or some such, it doesn't make sense to me. Only in low-level, low-optimization campaigns does a mundane "mage-slayer" make any sense, and even then it would be against budding, lower level magic users.

you've just given me exactly the way to defeat him

eschew materials + teleport through time


the wizard scry's you, thinks you're a threat, TTT's to the day of your birth, scry's you again, teleports to you, and throws a fireball at you. i don't think babies can take 10d6 damage and survive

[SethoMarkus]

you've just given me exactly the way to defeat him

eschew materials + teleport through time


the wizard scry's you, thinks you're a threat, TTT's to the day of your birth, scry's you again, teleports to you, and throws a fireball at you. i don't think babies can take 10d6 damage and survive

Exactly. Even without such drastic measures, wizards tend to value their lives. They also tend to be able to warp the fabric of space and time on a whim.

I only bring any of this up since the thread is tagged as "Roleplaying," so I assume there should be some level of internal consistency. Also, others were bringing up the viability of a magic-user's communication network...

[Seppo87]

I never understood high-level mundane anti-mage builds. Unless the character is part of some sort of (magical) organization and used specifically to counter other threats, such as an Inquisitor or some such, it doesn't make sense to me. Only in low-level, low-optimization campaigns does a mundane "mage-slayer" make any sense, and even then it would be against budding, lower level magic users.

And why do you assume this character is not immune to divinations?

[Somensjev]

actually, the wizard doesn't even have to go to your birth, he could go to any time you had less than 60 health, and throw a maximised fire ball at you

[Seppo87]

the wizard scry's you

Have you ever scryed for potential mage slayers just because you imagined it would be possible they existed when playing a wizard in your actual gaming sessions?
Has anybody, ever?
I don't think so.

[dascarletm]

Excuse me, but are you imply high level wizards don't all make items of at will quickened sending, aka Twitter? I can elaborate it when I get home, but it involves a golem server.

Gah! Why do I bother and put things like this to show my intent if it is ignored!

I've not seen one anywhere close to the scope in a published campaign setting.

I mean, show me where it's done. I'm in no way saying it can't be done. I'm merely saying it shouldn't necessarily be assumed.

on the not so anti-joke-dascarletm that's awesome. I want to know more.

Word of mouth travels faster than you do.

I'm not really arguing that it does/doesn't

Doesn't Eberron have a house that specifically facilitates this?

I don't know, but we've seen organizations in various settings that definitely sat up and took notice, often proactively policing certain issues.

Going back to the council of 8, this wasn't just 8 people, it was 8 people who commanded massive power and respective organizations. Likewise if your small gathering is Elminster, Mordenkain and Raistlin, well, at least the first two definitely had connections and get things done (M's even on that council).

Also, sending stones.

You don't need this in every setting or game, but its kinda there.

Well, I'm not super well versed on Eberron, but in that world I believe there is very very few high level individuals anyway. (I could be wrong).

The council of 8 could pose a problem. I'm not too familiar with their information sharing/distribution capabilities.

To sending stones:
That's really my point. You could have such a network, but as you said you don't need it in every setting, and it's not specifically said to be assumed. So, that's why I always question why it is assumed every time a character like this comes up.

[Vaz]

A 7th level Wizard is still better than a 7th level... well, non wizard, pretty much.

[The Insanity]

I always find it odd when someone proclaims hatred for magic and then proceeds to wear and use magical items. But maybe that's just me. I know some of this could be crafted via divine means but still. Hating one form of magic yet embracing another.

He's not hating magic tho.

[Somensjev]

Have you ever scryed for potential mage slayers just because you imagined it would be possible they existed when playing a wizard in your actual gaming sessions?
Has anybody, ever?
I don't think so.

possibilities

• the wizard finds out that there's an immortal, powerful, mage slayer. he then scry's said mage slayer
• the wizard gets killed by the mage slayer, his clone awakens, then TTT's to the mage slayers birth
• the wizard finds said mage slayer, disjunctions him from up to 220ft away, stops time, mindrapes him into being a loyal, mindless servant
• the wizard is in a party with the mage slayer and doesnt like him, he goes into a ropetrick, pulls up the rope, then TTT's to kill the mage slayer. he's no longer in a party with him

[SethoMarkus]

And why do you assume this character is not immune to divinations?

It doesn't require divination. Although magic users use, well, magic, they are not banned from doing things the mundane way. Gather Information, idle gossip and rumors, local fame, etc. If someone is training to be an anti-mage, to be someone focused on killing magic users (specifically Arcane magic users), word would spread out. Think about it. They would either have to train in private, at a monastery or some other specialized school/location, or they would train in the open. If they train in the open, casual observers would watch and spread the word to their friends and family. Soon the whole town would know, and after that it is only a matter of time before that gossip reaches a city. Now, that does not guarantee that a magic user would discover him, but level 1 to level 20 takes a bit of time. He would undoubtedly be known of before reaching level 20.

Let's assume he trains in secret, not making an outward move until he reaches level 20. That would make it more difficult for magic users to discern that he existed, but once he started killing magic users, word would spread quickly. Even if wizards lived as hermits with no mass communication networks, they must still have friends. Those friends have friends. And those friends have yet more friends. If Bobby, a high level Wizard, is killed, surely Susie and Timmy, his close friends, will know about it, and possibly know the details. Susie tells Richter and Joseph, other mages, warning them to be careful. Timmy tells Mary and Peter, also warning them. Richter, Joseph, Mary, and Peter tell their friends, and so on. Soon, you have a network of wizards all looking for this mage-slayer independently, and possibly grouping together with friends. It's only a matter of time before some deity-level divination, some Gather Information/gossip, or other type of information gathering that bypasses an immunity to divination locates the mundane mage slayer, after which a task force is sent to neutralize the threat.

It is a cool concept. It works as a gimmick. If the OP was determined to use this character concept as a force aligned with the party to fight outside magic users, I'd be all for it. However, as his motivation seems to be to use an in game method to send an out of game message, namely "I don't like it when you use magic. No more magic users allowed in the game", it just becomes petty and has no in-game reason to exist. This is not roleplaying, this is trying to use fluff to justify a build specifically meant to cause a bad day for the other players.

[Vaz]

Question; how does said Mage Slayer get to the Wizard's demiplane?

[Somensjev]

Question; how does said Mage Slayer get to the Wizard's demiplane?

see, i was trying to avoid genesis, so the mage slayer at least had a chance of meeting the wizard, or an astral projection of the wizard, or an ice assassin of (an aleax) of the wizard, or one of the wizards minions, or anyone who knew the wizard

[Brookshw]

To sending stones:
That's really my point. You could have such a network, but as you said you don't need it in every setting, and it's not specifically said to be assumed. So, that's why I always question why it is assumed every time a character like this comes up.

So I was wrong, the name was the circle of 8, not the council. Can't trust the ol' memory some days. That link doesn't do justice to the whole thing though, you'd need to really dig into the Greyhawk canon if you want a full picture (you could also check out http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page but you'd have to keep digging if you wanted further info. Or probably just ask Afro). I certainly can agree that they're not necessary, but such groups are fairly steeped in the canon, media and novels, BG2 for example has an instant assault from an order that controls magic as soon as you leave the first dungeon. Blackstaff and Elminster are in regular contact with one another in the novels and the Simbul tends to show up just at the right time more often than not. Planescape had the mercykillers. The power of any organization varies in particular settings, but it's pretty common in many that there's some group keeping a watchful eye on things so I can understand why people expect there to be something. It's kind of the real life parallel of there being a swat team really I guess, the assumption there's a group prepared to deal with the more powerful threats. Sometimes they're even called adventurers!

[EugeneVoid]

OP has already left this thread. top kek

[Elderand]

This is common in fiction, but how is it even possible?

You need to stop and rest. Pass the message along and someone else keep traveling while you sleep.

[Vogonjeltz]

Excuse me, I don't see Iron Heart Surge in your build. How do you deal with forcecages or repel metal?

IHS works on spells affecting the character.

Force Cage doesn't affect the character, it creates an object.
Repel Metal or Stone, same deal, it affects objects in an area, not people.

I'm less concerned about the build and more concerned that you respond to a threat with killing another character.

I think it'd kind of concerning that this guy is listed as Lawful Neutral. The party behavior sounds more like a Chaotic Evil/Neutral Evil power struggle.

[SimonMoon6]

You need to stop and rest. Pass the message along and someone else keep traveling while you sleep.

Or... since talking is a free action... line up enough commoners and have them ready an action to tell the person on their left anything the person on their right tells them. Then tell the right-most person whatever information you want to spread.

You can easily get sound traveling faster than the speed of sound this way, I'm sure.

[Vhaidara]

Or... since talking is a free action... line up enough commoners and have them ready an action to tell the person on their left anything the person on their right tells them. Then tell the right-most person whatever information you want to spread.

You can easily get sound traveling faster than the speed of sound this way, I'm sure.

Is there any problem that can't be solved with enough commoners?

[Vaz]

Faster than SoundLight Chinese Whispers? I like it.

[Necroticplague]

Just looking at the character,, it looks like it has no answer for most mage tricks. For one, its mostly melee. Since any mage with half a brain is staying away from the pointy jams anyway, this is a big issue. Second off, is its lack of responsiveness. A simple Solid Fog or Evards Black Tentacles can stop you in your tracks. Your helpless against a forcecage. Simply having a greenbound monster grapple you can beat you. You can't fly, so any caster flying can simply plink you from out of range. It doesn't take much to counter you. Your AC is also a bit low at this level. Its in now way the ultimate, I'm not even sure its decent.

[Werephilosopher]

This guy's got nothing to save him from being wished to Nessus. Not connected to either the ethereal or the astral, so no ethereal jaunts or plane shifting out.

[eggynack]

Force Cage doesn't affect the character, it creates an object.
Repel Metal or Stone, same deal, it affects objects in an area, not people.

Both affect the character, because they stop the character from doing the thing they would do were there not this spell in place.

In any case, no, you have not made the ultimate anti-mage. You have some minor resources that work against casters, but it's not nearly enough to work against one that's even moderately optimized, especially at your level. You've said that you have some DM fiat immortality. By this point in the game, a well built wizard has actual immortality, coming directly from his own abilities, and it's likely in a far more useful form.

[Vogonjeltz]

Both affect the character, because they stop the character from doing the thing they would do were there not this spell in place.

In any case, no, you have not made the ultimate anti-mage. You have some minor resources that work against casters, but it's not nearly enough to work against one that's even moderately optimized, especially at your level. You've said that you have some DM fiat immortality. By this point in the game, a well built wizard has actual immortality, coming directly from his own abilities, and it's likely in a far more useful form.

No they do not.

[eggynack]

No they do not.

Which one are we talking about here? This, more than a non-argument, is a rather unclearly directed non-argument. On the being affected count, the forcecage and repel metal absolutely act on the fighting guy, and they produce an effect or change in him, because they alter the actions he would be able to take. As for immortality, wizards at that level are fully capable of acquiring immunity to just about anything, including HP damage, and are able to astrally project from a private demiplane with a contingent raise dead effect on. There are also ways to acquire actual everlasting life, if you want.