How to create Chtulu

[.Zero]

Is it possible, within 3.5 rules and sources, to create Cthulu and other beings from the Lovecraftian Pantheon?

No Divine Ranks and (possibly) no epic rules!
What can the Playground do?

[holywhippet]

I assume you mean Cthulhu? I'd assume you could create him or find an equivalent in the manual of the planes. In D&D the Far Realm is basically their equivalent of where the great old ones live.

[Eldan]

With only those abilities he actually shows in Call of Cthulhu? Some form of giant would do it with some reflavouring. A colossal giant, with a template to give him regeneration and another template for outsider type, done.

As in pop culture, some kind of divine colossal epic psion.

[holywhippet]

If you want to keep the proper Cthulu theme though then meeting or even learning much about Cthulu should cause madness.

[Yael]

As mentioned, Cthulhu appears in the book: Call of Cthulhu with a statblock adapted for D&D.

Also features some other lovecraftian gods (Nyarlathotep, Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, Shub-Niggurath, etc.) IMO gods there are somewhat behind of what they should be.

[JusticeZero]

That depends on what you're actually trying to represent. I'm sure you can generate a Cthulhu-like entity easily enough. The concept of an entity sufficiently powerful to be completely oblivious and uncaring about anything on the planet itself is.. curious, because it is both easy to make and impossible to do in a satisfying way. The D&D way of dealing with entities of unspeakable power is to wait until about level 19ish, then punch them in the face repeatedly. The sort of hijinks possible to an Epic wizard are pretty madness-inducing in their own right.

[.Zero]

Oh god, yes i meant "Cthulhu".
Anyways, i imagine it having the body of something like a Glabrezu and the head of an Illithid, but Cthulhu also has dragonscale wings, so i think it's reasonable to give it the dragonborn template. What I'm trying to do here is to create a build that is mechanically legal, starting from a base creature and then giving it templates, equipment, feats and class features., so the illithid-head stuff maybe is something granted by, say, grafts or the like.

So, we have a Glabrezu body and an illithid head, the dragonborn template and most of all, every single Outer God has the Epic Level Handbook's Pseudonatural template. As for powers and abilities, we surely have some sort of "aura of madness", involving a sky high will save DC, planar level telepathy, and a mixture of psionics and arcane magic.
Suggestions?

[sideswipe]

cheese a psion to get a stp erudite to give him insanity. and unlimited power points. use tricks to up caster level and use quicken power. so you can insanity as many people as possible in as little time.

up the DC to as high as possible. and then you can make anyone that see's you insane. close enough.

[Eldan]

The question is, what do you want your Cthulhu to do? The original, out of the story "The Call of Cthulhu" is a pretty big unknown. He's large, he's alien-looking and he doesn't get killed by a boat to the head, so probably regeneration. Apart from that, he isn't showing any abilities. Not driving any people insane, certainly. Even the one guy who saw him and got away was still more or less coherent and he'd also been drifting around on a wreck for quite some time.

He only got insanity powers and telepathy in later versions by other authors. And in the RPGs.

[AMFV]

Cthulu should probably have no in-game stats, he's supposed to be so powerful as to be literally incomprehensible, and anything with stats is comprehensible. As they say: "If it has stats you can kill it" Cthulu should therefore not be statted.

[sideswipe]

Cthulu should probably have no in-game stats, he's supposed to be so powerful as to be literally incomprehensible, and anything with stats is comprehensible. As they say: "If it has stats you can kill it" Cthulu should therefore not be statted.

problem is that things along the power of gods are not meant to be stated. they are meant to be so powerful it is incomprehensible. and they have stats. therefore things like chuthulu which have similar power should be stated. unless you agree with me and say that the gods should not have stats.

[holywhippet]

I think one of the even higher powered elder gods has a move action to let them move to any place in time and space. Not sure if they have other stats, but that alone should make them nigh on impossible to kill.

[ArqArturo]

Cthulu should probably have no in-game stats, he's supposed to be so powerful as to be literally incomprehensible, and anything with stats is comprehensible. As they say: "If it has stats you can kill it" Cthulu should therefore not be statted.

I have to agree.

[Kazudo]

The book "Elder Evils" Is pretty much devoted to this kind of thing. When you're fighting an Elder Evil, you're not really fighting IT most of the time, you're more often than not fighting some aspect or avatar of the thing. Defeating said avatar or aspect doesn't normally grant that the thing is dead, but rather sometimes a sound walloping might just put it back to sleep (Leviathan) send it back into space (Atropos) banish it back to the void (Father Llemic), etc. My EE is a little rusty, I apologize for wrongness.

The point remains though that Cthulhu probably wouldn't have stats per se. As has been mentioned, he's just that powerful. Most deities have stats because they're really just ascended beings. The true powers behind things though should remain just incomprehensible.

The thing's damage output is listed as "enough". Its AC is listed as "don't bother", its DR (in case its AC is bypassed somehow) is "Not happening/-". When it lashes out with a pseudopod, the world quakes and feels pain. Did you get hit by it? Probably. Are you dead? Most likely unless the DM doesn't want you to be for some reason.

A key point though is usually to have a way out somehow. Maybe having enough of its avatars/aspects/tentacles/whatever destroyed sends some kind of cosmic feedback to it which causes trouble. Maybe it has a quota and once it's hit it's done. Maybe there are cosmic keystones in place that were created by ancients on the same level of the Elder Evil which can put the thing back to whence it came. That's great and will work.

The mere existence of an Elder Evil changes the face of the world if not reality itself. Its effects will be felt for vast stretches of time if not permanently, and they're never put down for long.

[Svata]

Well, Cthulhu is statted fairly, what with his regenerating/reforming within 1d6 minutes of destruction. And the memetic devouring of 1d3 investigators /round.

[Ellowryn]

problem is that things along the power of gods are not meant to be stated. they are meant to be so powerful it is incomprehensible. and they have stats. therefore things like chuthulu which have similar power should be stated. unless you agree with me and say that the gods should not have stats.

I don't know, having a Cthulhu stated out with the correct gear, like power armor, is something every DM should have in their back pocket just in case! But i agree it isnt something that should be defeat-able without DM fiat.

[A Tad Insane]

He would probably be the easiest to justify statting out, as only a couple of the people who saw him immediately died of MADNESS, and taking a speeding boat to the head equivalent did distraught him enough to not immediately force the entire worlds alignment to chaotic-who-gives-a-flying-damn, but statting out any lovecraftian horror, even the non-deity ones, sort of defeats their purpose, which is why old man Henderson winning call of Cthulhu is considered a major achievement, because you're not supposed to ever win against Lovecraftian horrors

[Sayt]

Pathfinder statted him up at CR 30. It's not strictly 3.5, but it's certainly compatible.

[atemu1234]

Pathfinder statted him up at CR 30. It's not strictly 3.5, but it's certainly compatible.

I'd stick a few divine ranks on him, though.

[AMFV]

He would probably be the easiest to justify statting out, as only a couple of the people who saw him immediately died of MADNESS, and taking a speeding boat to the head equivalent did distraught him enough to not immediately force the entire worlds alignment to chaotic-who-gives-a-flying-damn, but statting out any lovecraftian horror, even the non-deity ones, sort of defeats their purpose, which is why old man Henderson winning call of Cthulhu is considered a major achievement, because you're not supposed to ever win against Lovecraftian horrors

First, Old man Henderson used some pretty flagrant misreading and misapplication of rules. Second that's part of the reason why Cthulu shouldn't be statted out, because once he has stats he can be killed (even by an exploit), which shouldn't happen it defeats the point.

problem is that things along the power of gods are not meant to be stated. they are meant to be so powerful it is incomprehensible. and they have stats. therefore things like chuthulu which have similar power should be stated. unless you agree with me and say that the gods should not have stats.

The God's power is completely comprehensible, as are their goals. Zeus for example generates lightning and such, he controls storms, his goals are mostly boning everything in sight. The Gods in D&D are more like Greek Gods than Abrahamic Gods, and Greek Gods are thoroughly comprehensible, with portfolios and understood agendas and power level, whereas Cthulu is not.

Pathfinder statted him up at CR 30. It's not strictly 3.5, but it's certainly compatible.

I again cite that Cthulu shouldn't be statted, even at CR 30, because his power is beyond understanding. Although I'll accept the reasoning that he would be the easiest of the Elder Gods to stat. I personally think Elder Evils did the best job of this, having you fight signs and harbingers rather than the evils themselves.

[Slipperychicken]

Great Cthulhu

Size/Type: Big/???
Hit Dice: Lots
Initiative: Your initiative roll +1
Speed: Faster than you
Armor Class: You missed.
Base Attack/Grapple: Your grapple modifier +21.
Attack: You die.
Full Attack: You all die.
Space/Reach: He can reach you
Special Attacks: 1d4 Investigators
Special Qualities: No list is long enough.
Saves: He made it.
Abilities: Str ???, Dex ???, Con ???, Int ???, Wis ???, Cha ???
Skills: High enough.
Feats: All the good ones.
Environment: Rl'yeh, aquatic, outer space.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: Too high for you
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Chaotic Crazy.
Advancement: ???
Level Adjustment: No, you can't play as Cthulhu.

1d4 Investigators (Ex)
Cthulhu grabs and eats 1d4 player characters each round as a free action. He may decide to eat other characters once the PCs are all dead. Characters devoured in this manner are forever lost to his gaping maw and can never be returned to play by any means.

You Lose
Cthulhu's waking marks the end of the campaign setting. Whatever world he wakes on is forever twisted into an insane, blasted mockery of its former self.

[AMFV]

Great Cthulhu

Size/Type: Big/???
Hit Dice: Lots
Initiative: Your initiative roll +1
Speed: Faster than you
Armor Class: You missed.
Base Attack/Grapple: Your grapple modifier +21.
Attack: You die.
Full Attack: You all die.
Space/Reach: He can reach you
Special Attacks: 1d4 Investigators
Special Qualities: No list is long enough.
Saves: He made it.
Abilities: Str ???, Dex ???, Con ???, Int ???, Wis ???, Cha ???
Skills: High enough.
Feats: All the good ones.
Environment: Rl'yeh, aquatic, outer space.
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: Too high for you
Treasure: None.
Alignment: Chaotic Crazy.
Advancement: ???
Level Adjustment: No, you can't play as Cthulhu.

1d4 Investigators (Ex)
Cthulhu grabs and eats 1d4 player characters each round as a free action. He may decide to eat other characters once the PCs are all dead. Characters devoured in this manner are forever lost to his gaping maw and can never be returned to play by any means.

You Lose
Cthulhu's waking marks the end of the campaign setting. Whatever world he wakes on is forever twisted into an insane, blasted mockery of its former self.

I stand corrected.

[JusticeZero]

I'm not sure that the Lovecraftian horrors should be absurdly unkillable. The horrors get beaten in the original stories from time to time, generally because they are oblivious to human action, and they get stopped from doing something that they were doing for incomprehensible reasons. The reason why they were doing the thing may never be known.
For instance, a person wanders out to the back yard to mow the lawn, and is stung by a bee when they go to collect the lawn mower. They say "Ow!" and go inside, leaving the yard untrimmed. That's an example of an Elder Evil being defeated by a mortal.

[Sir Chuckles]

I again cite that Cthulu shouldn't be statted, even at CR 30, because his power is beyond understanding. Although I'll accept the reasoning that he would be the easiest of the Elder Gods to stat. I personally think Elder Evils did the best job of this, having you fight signs and harbingers rather than the evils themselves.

Strongly agreeing here, especially considering that that stat block gives him stats that allow him to be killed fairly easily by an Ubercharger.
With those stats, it would be a minor inconvenience to the Tippyverse, and, in my opinion, he and his counterparts should pose a more than credible threat to the 'verse. It's a decent benchmark.

Extra Credits has an episode on Cthulhu.

[AMFV]

I'm not sure that the Lovecraftian horrors should be absurdly unkillable. The horrors get beaten in the original stories from time to time, generally because they are oblivious to human action, and they get stopped from doing something that they were doing for incomprehensible reasons. The reason why they were doing the thing may never be known.
For instance, a person wanders out to the back yard to mow the lawn, and is stung by a bee when they go to collect the lawn mower. They say "Ow!" and go inside, leaving the yard untrimmed. That's an example of an Elder Evil being defeated by a mortal.

I didn't say unstoppable, just not defeatable at their full force. If a grown man fights a bee, they'll kill the bee, almost every single time. I'd wager with a 98% or greater success rate. It's why fighting their harbingers or wakers is the way to go... that's tantamount to stinging them.

[JusticeZero]

If a grown man fights a bee, they'll kill the bee, almost every single time..

"If".
If the human is actually fighting the bee, then you are no longer in a Cosmic Horror story. It might still be horror, but you have left the realm of Cosmic "Lovecraftian" Horror. And since you are no longer in the cosmic horror genre at all, who cares how tough the monster is or is not? It's just a really tough BBEG. Cosmic Horror is defined by the humans being completely irrelevant to and ignored by the "grand evils", because nothing humans do has any bearing on anything the "monsters" are doing. The horror is in realizing that the supreme "evil" entities you are worried about do not even pay attention to the fact that humans exist, and very likely are completely unaware of them. They simply don't merit the slightest bit of thought.

[AMFV]

"If".
If the human is actually fighting the bee, then you are no longer in a Cosmic Horror story. It might still be horror, but you have left the realm of Cosmic "Lovecraftian" Horror. And since you are no longer in the cosmic horror genre at all, who cares how tough the monster is or is not? It's just a really tough BBEG. Cosmic Horror is defined by the humans being completely irrelevant to and ignored by the "grand evils", because nothing humans do has any bearing on anything the "monsters" are doing. The horror is in realizing that the supreme "evil" entities you are worried about do not even pay attention to the fact that humans exist, and very likely are completely unaware of them. They simply don't merit the slightest bit of thought.

Which further suggests that statting out Cthulu is a mistake. You aren't competing with Cthulu, you're metaphorically stinging his hand, or disabling his alarm clock. Killing him or stopping him from doing something he actually intends to do is impossible, as impossible as it would be for a bee to stop a man (which was the point I was trying to make), which is the stance the Elder Evils book takes, you fight some shadow or fragment or something, rarely the thing itself.

[Slipperychicken]

With those stats, it would be a minor inconvenience to the Tippyverse, and, in my opinion, he and his counterparts should pose a more than credible threat to the 'verse. It's a decent benchmark.

To be fair, though, Cthulhu can be inconvenienced by a steamship crashing into him while he's mostly asleep, and many monsters and villains in Lovecraft's writing are defeated by force of arms, with the possible exception of the creature summoned in The Dunwich Horror.

Also, I do kind of get why people would want to stat/kill cthulhu in their games. It's a power-fantasy, and what better way is there to express your power than by defeating the most powerful and scary things anyone can think of? It's not my preference personally, but I can see where people are coming from on it. And besides, who are we to tell people what they can or can't have fantasies about?

[Sayt]

Strongly agreeing here, especially considering that that stat block gives him stats that allow him to be killed fairly easily by an Ubercharger.
With those stats, it would be a minor inconvenience to the Tippyverse, and, in my opinion, he and his counterparts should pose a more than credible threat to the 'verse. It's a decent benchmark.

Extra Credits has an episode on Cthulhu.

The one I linked is from pf, which doesn't have uberchargers to nearly the same extent(and 50% miss chance+40 ft reach make charging problematic) and iirc, tippyverse doesn't work as well.

But a few notes (I'm at work on my phone, please forgive the terseness):
- The OP asked whether Great Cthulhu CAN be statted, not whether it SHOULD be statted.
-My under standing is that Cthulhu is defeated in his pseudo-eponymous short story.
-He's designed as an encounter for high level, mythic player characters, literal candidates for deification
-Check the either great old one subtype (Hastur and Bokrug both get statted), or his own special immortality clause: it can't actually be killed, just sent back to sleep. (Which requires reducing him to negative con twice)

Nevertheless, not having actual cthulhu, and instead just one of his star spawn is a valid choice. But on the chance that some parties want to face The Great One, that's their GM's decision, and its helpful to them for it to be available.

[Coidzor]

Some kind of Pseudonatural(ELH version) Half-Dragon(not sure about color) Titan or Cloud/Storm Giant. Maybe with the primordial giant template? Maybe with Phrenic for extra gravy? Maybe Paragon(ELH)?

That'll get you the size, squiddlyness, and wings, I suppose.

On the whole you'd probably be better off homebrewing up a unique Cthulhu creature though. Or using someone else's unique Cthulhu.