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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default What is Blackwing?

    I'll confess that Blackwing is not very high on my list of favorite characters. I'd like to understand him better, but I'm not familiar with the lore behind familiars. What is he, exactly? What links him to Vaarsuvius, and what drives his personality? Why does he seem to be completely and selflessly devoted to the team's quest? He often comes across as a cheerleader in his interactions.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    A familiar is an animal or other small creature magically bound to a wizard. There is a telepathic link, but it also gifts animals with greater intelligence. The wizard in turn gains some abilities from the familiar.

    Blackwing is V's raven familiar, which means that he can communicate telepathically with him over short distances, and gives him Alertness (apparently) when in close proximity.

    Perhaps most importantly, the bond between them means that one's death or injury is detrimental to the other. If blackwing dies V loses all the benefits he brought plus some. If V dies, I believe blackwing is killed by the shock.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2014-07-22 at 01:26 PM.
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    SRD goes into some detail on familiars:

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/so....htm#familiars

    The most relevant bits:

    A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a sorcerer or wizard.

    The master has an empathic link with his familiar out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The master cannot see through the familiar’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Because of the limited nature of the link, only general emotional content can be communicated.

    Familiars start at INT 6 and scale up from there. Raven familiars can speak one language.

    At V's current level, Blackwing is smarter than the average human.
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    To wit, Elan and Belkar. Blackwing may also be smarter than Mr. Scruffy as well.

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    I think most of what you mention as part of his personality don't have much to do with his being a familiar (aside from the heightened intelligence) but are just part of who he is. For whatever reason, he is very much a team player and tries to support the Order.


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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    To wit, Elan and Belkar. Blackwing may also be smarter than Mr. Scruffy as well.
    Definitely, Mr. Scruffy is an Animal Companion, not a Familiar so he doesn't get an intelligence bonus like Blackwing does. He's just a stronger, more durable housecat.
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    rodneyAnonymous's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Also note that the fact that he disappears and reappears is a joke about how real players treat their familiar (it only exists when it's relevant, heh), and not an actual comes-from-another-plane mechanic like summon monster x or the paladin mounts. He's just a talking bird.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    SRD goes into some detail on familiars:

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/so....htm#familiars

    The most relevant bits:

    A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a sorcerer or wizard.

    The master has an empathic link with his familiar out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The master cannot see through the familiar’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically. Because of the limited nature of the link, only general emotional content can be communicated.

    Familiars start at INT 6 and scale up from there. Raven familiars can speak one language.

    At V's current level, Blackwing is smarter than the average human.
    So his personality, knowledge, and insight start at an ordinary animal level and scale themselves up as V improves? In a sense, V is his parent, responsible for everything Blackwing has grown into to the same extent a parent influences their children?

    Does the magic creating a familiar bestow outside knowledge onto it? Or is the familiar relatively ignorant until it's had a chance to learn through experience? With V, that wouldn't make much difference, since they've presumably been together for many years before the events of the comic. Blackwing would have picked up a lot of knowledge simply from hanging around V for so long.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boring McReader View Post
    So his personality, knowledge, and insight start at an ordinary animal level and scale themselves up as V improves?
    Not exactly. The familiar of a 1st level wizard is probably smarter than Thog, but dumber than Elan. (We don't know Thog and Elan's intelligence exactly, but that would be my estimate.) I don't know about the rest. I think the knowledge thing might depend on the DM (or the author, in this case).
    Last edited by ORione; 2014-07-22 at 08:11 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boring McReader View Post
    Why does he seem to be completely and selflessly devoted to the team's quest?
    He is probably evil and has ulterior motives:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...9#post15667889

    Note the omission of Blackwing...
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    He is probably evil and has ulterior motives:
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...9#post15667889

    Note the omission of Blackwing...
    That's probably not the best example for alignment guessing, since the Giant fully admits that it's not an exhaustive list.


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    Bulldog Psion's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Familiars have been part of the lore of witches, warlocks, and wizards for centuries. Black cats, toads, ravens, homunculi, imps, blah blah. I'm fairly sure there are even treatises written on the subject by various witchfinders and the like. Many of the animals were probably actually just pets taken as "proof" of sorcery by various power-mad loons.

    The D&D familiar is an attempt to port this concept over to a game format, minus the demonic elements frequently present in the original concepts.

    So, if you're looking for the reasons behind familiars existing, you're going to need to look far beyond D&D into the distant mists of real-world myth.

    Here's an introduction if you're curious:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familiar_spirit
    Last edited by Bulldog Psion; 2014-07-22 at 10:29 PM.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boring McReader View Post
    Why does he seem to be completely and selflessly devoted to the team's quest? He often comes across as a cheerleader in his interactions.
    It seems you may have missed out on quite a bit of the character developement between V and Blackwing. Blackwing actually began as a nameless bird, Haley gave him the name (Vaarsuvius' comment was along the lines of "Do you name all of your class features?"). Blackwing actually disappeared back into "familiarspace" rather than act as a diversion in one instance, leaving V hanging. So, the relationship has not always been friendly.

    It was only after a lot of turmoil- basically, the events of "Don't Split the Party" (strips #485-672)- that Blackwing and V bonded and the relationship became as we see it now. Blackwing was also quite the deadpan snarker for a while after that as well, not so much a cheerleader.

    I believe that B is devoted to V's goals, rather than the party's. But, since Vaarsuvius is dedicated to the party's goal, the distinction is currently meaningless. That could change someday.

    Under the D&D 3.5 rules, I'm not sure whether the familiar is magically created or just mystically called and bonded to a master. If it's the latter, then Blackwing began life as a perfectly ordinary raven, until V summoned him to the heroic life. Now there's a thought.
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    rodneyAnonymous's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    Under the D&D 3.5 rules, I'm not sure whether the familiar is magically created or just mystically called and bonded to a master. If it's the latter, then Blackwing began life as a perfectly ordinary raven, until V summoned him to the heroic life. Now there's a thought.
    Definitely called and bonded.

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD "familiars" section
    "A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a sorcerer or wizard. It retains the appearance [etc.] of the normal animal it once was, but it is treated as a magical beast instead of an animal for the purpose of any effect that depends on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar." (full text)
    Last edited by rodneyAnonymous; 2014-07-23 at 11:07 PM.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boring McReader View Post
    Does the magic creating a familiar bestow outside knowledge onto it? Or is the familiar relatively ignorant until it's had a chance to learn through experience? With V, that wouldn't make much difference, since they've presumably been together for many years before the events of the comic. Blackwing would have picked up a lot of knowledge simply from hanging around V for so long.
    Not specifically, but yes, in a way it does.

    a) It gets smarter. Higher Int means better results on Knowledge skills, means more knowledge.
    b) Familiars use either their own ranks in a skill (for example Fly in Blackwings case), or they use their Master's skillranks if it's higher. They use their own Ability modifier etc still. However this means Blackwing can make Knowledge checks in every Knowledge skill that V has points in, and have a fairly good chance of succeeding.

    So, while there's no "infusion with knowledge" explicitly happening, the endresult is that, yes Familiars know a lot more than the base creature.

    Considering V got lots of points in Knowledge (arcana) for example, it's quite possible that Blackwing understands the nature of the Gates far better than anyone in the party save for V himself. (Not completely though, because I believe V hasn't put a single rank into Knowledge (religion))

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyAnonymous View Post
    Definitely called and bonded.
    Thanks, Rodney. Haven't played a wizard in a few years (although the last time I did, indeed I did have a raven familiar named You Freeloading Bugger).
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Also, everything Darth Paul just said.
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    What still bugs me a bit is how since Sandsedge nobody in the party seems to understand that Blackwing is a familiar, where before this was not a problem. I still consider that a major plot hint of some sort. Assuming it's not just a retcon (for the sake of a throwaway joke? Seems odd) something happened between Wooden Forest and Sandsedge that erased details about Blackwing from their heads.

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    Devil

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Haley's Bluff check just beat your Sense Motive check is all. Belkar also was likely pretending not to remember in order to be a jerk; he's feigned ignorance in order to mess with Roy more than once, after all! Durkon healed Blackwing but seems to have forgotten about this; his Int probably isn't that high though, so it seems likely enough that he just forgot it. Elan acts stupid because he is stupid, plus I don't recall him ever really being introduced to V's familiar before anyway. Blackwing was mentioned to Roy, but Roy doesn't seem to have taken much notice of him.
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    I don't know why people keep insisting "It can't possibly be just a throwaway joke! It must be a plot point somehow!" about the Order's forgetfulness regarding Blackwing, even months after The Giant himself explained that, yes, it is, in fact, just a throwaway joke.
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    Maybe Blackwing is a Schrödinger's familiar.
    Any given member of the Order needs to do a quantum measurement to see if they remember him

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devils_Advocate View Post
    Belkar also was likely pretending not to remember in order to be a jerk; he's feigned ignorance in order to mess with Roy more than once, after all! Durkon healed Blackwing but seems to have forgotten about this; his Int probably isn't that high though, so it seems likely enough that he just forgot it.
    Actually, Rich has indicated that Durkon was in on the joke and Belkar was the one who had forgotten.

    (And yeah, he also explicitly confirms that there was no big secret behind the party "forgetting" Blackwing).
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by snikrept View Post
    What still bugs me a bit is how since Sandsedge nobody in the party seems to understand that Blackwing is a familiar, where before this was not a problem. I still consider that a major plot hint of some sort. Assuming it's not just a retcon (for the sake of a throwaway joke? Seems odd) something happened between Wooden Forest and Sandsedge that erased details about Blackwing from their heads.
    I really don't understand why people keep assuming this. Of course, now we have Word of Giant against it, but still.


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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    I really don't understand why people keep assuming this.
    Well I can't speak for anyone else who assumed this, but when this sort of thing occurs in fiction I tend to first hypothesize "the author is being clever and devious here" rather than "the author made an awkward retcon here." Heck, the Giant also states it's a "ridiculous contrivance" in that post linked above.

    Furthermore, consider that there's precedent in the comic for throwaway jokes being actual foreshadowing. Recall it was a throwaway joke when the Thing in the Shadows claimed to be able to make things happen by wishing really hard... until he showed he was able to actually do it!

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Apart from what you have already mentioned, Blackwing is also secretly an Animagus stuck in raven form when she accidentally remained transformed for more than an hour, and the long lost fater of the MitD.

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Not specifically, but yes, in a way it does.

    a) It gets smarter. Higher Int means better results on Knowledge skills, means more knowledge.
    b) Familiars use either their own ranks in a skill (for example Fly in Blackwings case), or they use their Master's skillranks if it's higher. They use their own Ability modifier etc still. However this means Blackwing can make Knowledge checks in every Knowledge skill that V has points in, and have a fairly good chance of succeeding.

    So, while there's no "infusion with knowledge" explicitly happening, the endresult is that, yes Familiars know a lot more than the base creature.

    Considering V got lots of points in Knowledge (arcana) for example, it's quite possible that Blackwing understands the nature of the Gates far better than anyone in the party save for V himself. (Not completely though, because I believe V hasn't put a single rank into Knowledge (religion))
    Blackwing was able to identify Malack's mummy as a mummy. Knowledge (religion) is the skill used to identify undead creatures. Familiars use the base skill ranks of a normal animal of their kind, or their masters' ranks, whichever is higher. Base ravens do not have ranks in Knowledge (religion). Knowledge (religion) is a trained-only skill. Thus, for Blackwing to make a Knowledge (religion) check, V must have ranks in that skill. Not enough to reliably make all checks, but some.

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    rodneyAnonymous's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    It would be in-character for Vaarsuvius to have 1 rank in many different Knowledge disciplines.
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by snikrept View Post
    Well I can't speak for anyone else who assumed this, but when this sort of thing occurs in fiction I tend to first hypothesize "the author is being clever and devious here" rather than "the author made an awkward retcon here." Heck, the Giant also states it's a "ridiculous contrivance" in that post linked above.

    Furthermore, consider that there's precedent in the comic for throwaway jokes being actual foreshadowing. Recall it was a throwaway joke when the Thing in the Shadows claimed to be able to make things happen by wishing really hard... until he showed he was able to actually do it!
    You know, I wasn't expecting an actual reply there. Thank you for illuminating me with your thought process!


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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRtwenty View Post
    Definitely, Mr. Scruffy is an Animal Companion, not a Familiar so he doesn't get an intelligence bonus like Blackwing does. He's just a stronger, more durable housecat.
    Though we have had confirmation that Awaken works on Animal Companions in the OotS setting, so....
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Nonono, Mr. Scruffy is the avatar of Cat, former member of the Chinese Zodiac Southern Pantheon. Or at least that's one of the theories bouncing around the forums.

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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boring McReader View Post
    I'll confess that Blackwing is not very high on my list of favorite characters. I'd like to understand him better, but I'm not familiar with the lore behind familiars. What is he, exactly? What links him to Vaarsuvius, and what drives his personality? Why does he seem to be completely and selflessly devoted to the team's quest? He often comes across as a cheerleader in his interactions.
    Blackwing isn't just magically bound, he's soul-bound to V. If V knew of this, it implies that he didn't care enough about the soul of his familiar while making a deal which would have damned it more or less temporarily to hell. I don't know what else it can imply, but, if I had to look for an explanation, I'd say there's a contract between V and BW, in which V gave BW more power than a common bird could have and BW accepted to use it in V's service. For the exchange to be made, the souls had to be bound. But if V had known this, would BW also have known?

    Anyway, you can understand that BW is a magical raven by his yellow beak. That's where his magic lies hidden! It's a shared trait with Mr Poe, Magica de Spell's brother and familiar. Normal ravens have a black beak.
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    Default Re: What is Blackwing?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Blackwing was able to identify Malack's mummy as a mummy. Knowledge (religion) is the skill used to identify undead creatures. Familiars use the base skill ranks of a normal animal of their kind, or their masters' ranks, whichever is higher. Base ravens do not have ranks in Knowledge (religion). Knowledge (religion) is a trained-only skill. Thus, for Blackwing to make a Knowledge (religion) check, V must have ranks in that skill. Not enough to reliably make all checks, but some.
    Ah nice catch, yes that would indicate he has at least a few ranks in there. I mean one could argue it's a DC 10 or less to identify mummies, which he could do untrained, but fairly sure it would be higher. Mummies are not that common.

    I was going by his "this isn't real magic" comment to assume he doesn't give a damn about religion knowledge as it's probably "not real knowledge". But maybe that changed after the encounter with Xykon or he always had ranks in most knowledges, just usually not enough to be useful for higher level things.

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