Seven Deadly Sins Demons (See Inside)

[White Blade]

Alright, so long ago, I tried to build some demons based on the Seven Deadly Sins for a pact based magic system. I felt pretty satisfied with some of them, but I was working on others and never got back around to them. I'll include the three I feel really satisfied with, but I was looking for some thoughts on what to do with the others. Also, name suggestions

The basic picture of the demons is that they are quasi-symbiotic spirits (or maybe, "Not completely parasitic") and feed off their wizards. That's what drives them into pacts with mortals - Non-demonic spirits don't really benefit from a pact with a mortal and, though they exist, are sort of aloof of mortal kind.

People are aware of the demons' existence, but none of them are actually well known.

Spoiler: Wrath

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Ragebeast form pacts with mortal who are driven by hatred or malice or who are desperate to defeat their enemies at any cost. The key method to summoning a Ragebeast is to draw your own blood with your teeth and then spit it onto your hands. The terms of the pact are negotiable, but the major aspect is deciding what triggers the Ragebeast's transformation and what the duration of the transformation is.

A Ragebeast's closest analogue in our own mythology is a Werewolf. Whenever the trigger of its transformation take place, the host transforms into a horrible beast that varies from demon to demon and is dominated by the demon for the length of its transformation. They are hardy and dangerous creatures, at least as strong and tough as a bear. When in this form, the host/demon acts first against anything with which the host feels antipathy in the immediate vicinity and then anything at all in the immediate vicinity.

Slaying a host, though somewhat difficult in monstrous form, is not impossible but because of the nature of the Ragebaeast, any death by violence gives the demon rights to the host's killer as a new host. Because of this, some Ragebeasts have jumped from unwilling host to unwilling host for millennia. The only two ways to willfully dispose without infection by the Ragebeast is to trap and starve him or her or to already have one riding you. A rage beast host can also kill herself or himself and thereby end the curse.

Spoiler: Envy

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There will always be the haves and the have nots. And as long as that is true, the Skinstealers will prey on those who want what they cannot have. Summoning a Skinstealer is both a simple and a brutal act. You kill your first victim (You have to kill them! Accidental deaths caused by you accepted, otherwise: No.) and take its corpse to a river, where you put a pinch of salt inside its mouth and then bathe it. As you bathe it, the organs and body parts will slough off, leaving only a coat of skin. You step inside the skin (which magically helps you out, once you start) and bam, you're a Skinstealer.

The Skinstealer demon doesn't take away the will or choice of a Skinstealer host. When the host puts on the skin, he gains the memories and experiences of the victim for life as well as becoming an unaging entity. For awhile, many Skinstealers believe they have gotten everything they wanted. However, as time wears on (at least a year and a day, but it could be longer, depending on how closely the Skinstealer has kept to the habits of the original), a skin begins to wear out. At that point, the Skinstealer must kill again and take another skin (bathing in the river no longer required? Just kill them and their skin sloughs off). This process happens again, reducing in duration from the previous time each time (again, potentially lengthened by an apt imitation), and again and again until somebody kills the Skinstealer. Skinstealers cannot bear to be in the presence of portraits or images of their previous victims, though this does not apply to their present form.

Spoiler: Sloth

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Gelid are foul creatures. There are two paths to becoming the host of a Gelid demon - Firstly, if you die of the cold or commit suicide or have committed acts of cannibalism and die, there is a chance that you will be infected by a Gelid demon (this is involuntary - Sucks to suck). Secondly, if you eat the frozen heart of any animal mixed with a poison, it will invite a Gelid demon (guaranteeing transformation).

Gelid are a form of the walking dead and do not need to eat. They feed on the "hot" emotions of humans, such as anger or love or fear or joy. They draw on these emotions passively, weakening those around them and creating a chilly aura. Gelid embody despair and hopeless, sucking strength and hope from others at all times, but they can deliberately feed on emotions of others, poisoning them physically and emotionally. When they do this, Gelid feel alive in a way that they cannot without doing so. The barrenness of their own souls is covered by their victim's emotions, but it is like water splashed across desert sands.

Gelid loathe the sound of human singing and burn at the touch of alcohol. They are cold to the touch and incredibly tough and strong physically when they have been fed. The only ways to destroy them are fire or immersion in alcohol.

The four I've got little on:
Lust - I've resisted going the Succubi/Incubi route on this one, because its been done so much. I tried coming up with a Want, Take, Have sort of demon based on the traditional definition of lust, but I can't come up with one.
Pride - I had an idea of demonic muses, but couldn't figure out a way to make them BAD NEWS.
Greed - My early thoughts were that these would be the Fair Folk, vain fickle traders who profited by making bad deals with others, but it is a bit further from the other types than I liked.
Gluttony - I couldn't come up with squat here, either, other than a ravenous monster, and I've already got a bit of that with the Gelid and I don't see why anyone would willingly take it on even with a limited understanding.

EDIT: It should be noted that this is a very low magic setting - Its meant to be closer to an actual medieval worldview than typical fantasy and part of why I have the Seven types of demons is to allow for Witches to be a thing. There aren't like, Werewolves to compete with Rage beasts.

[...]

Gluttony- It could be kind of a "huttish" monster, one that just sits down and forces people to take care of it all the time, despite it having a high CR. Maybe some sort of enslavement ability so it can "recruit" helpers?

Pride- A doppelganger who takes the place of figures with high power so it can be adored?

Lust- Maybe like the opposite of a succubus, an entity that would do anything to accomplish its own personal desires.

[Super Evil User]

I'm also kind of sick of the big-boobied woman approach to Lust demons. Why not show Lust as it was originally envisioned/ultimately is? A pathetic creature, characterized by a failure to control its desires (sexual or no) and an utter lack of scruples. Think Nosferatu, not Carmilla.

[...]

I'm also kind of sick of the big-boobied woman approach to Lust demons. Why not show Lust as it was originally envisioned/ultimately is? A pathetic creature, characterized by a failure to control its desires (sexual or no) and an utter lack of scruples. Think Nosferatu, not Carmilla.

Exactly! I'm so glad someone understands my reasoning!

[Super Evil User]

Of course, it doesn't need to be immediately obvious that Lust is pathetic. Think of Tarquin - he's a sad, angry man in the end, he just has enough charisma to hide it from everyone else.

[Jakodee]

I would think a pride demon is Sauron. The warlock at the head of the rampaging barbarians. They don't look very different from humans, but they have magical powers and a changed mind. They are obsessed with victory, with domination, with being BETTER. They can't stand any insult whatsoever, but they are usually to busy reassuring themselves they can kill you for someone to grow derisive.

They won't kill you immediately. They will dominate and redicule you first. They are probably the most human of the demons, but that might be because it's more like a subtle possession than a domination of their host.

[Jakodee]

I think I just qouted myself.

[Tovec]

I think I just qouted myself.

Yes you did. How/why did you do that?

[White Blade]

Lust- Maybe like the opposite of a succubus, an entity that would do anything to accomplish its own personal desires.

I'm also kind of sick of the big-boobied woman approach to Lust demons. Why not show Lust as it was originally envisioned/ultimately is? A pathetic creature, characterized by a failure to control its desires (sexual or no) and an utter lack of scruples. Think Nosferatu, not Carmilla.

So working from these, and your later comments, I've got two basic ideas for a lust-demon:

One idea is that the lust demon somehow reduces sensibility while increasing strength and agility. Maybe for every desire fulfilled, yu have to give up some of your sanity? I'm not sure how to do that. I would want them to inevitably end up in a bestial state.

Another idea would be some sort of serpentine enchanter, with dominating powers. Not sure how to cause the drawback to be effective.

Thoughts?

They won't kill you immediately. They will dominate and redicule you first. They are probably the most human of the demons, but that might be because it's more like a subtle possession than a domination of their host.

The problem here is that, well, there aren't really a lot of innate drawbacks to that. Part of the reason why Witches (generic, umbrella term for pact-mages) are bad news is because its pretty much always bad news.

Also, on the greed front, I was thinking about doing something inspired by Midas' golden touch would be cool, but I'm not sure how to proceed with that.

[...]

Well, you could just use the energy-draining ability of the succubus, without using the personality. That would work. You could also have some sort of addiction aspect to it, like using the BoVD drug rules (I don't have BoVD, so I don't know the specifics) only for, well, you get the idea.

[Mx.Silver]

I had an idea for gluttony.
The key thing about Gluttony, as I see it, is that it's the most overtly hedonistic of the sins. It's about self-indulgence, consumption and instant gratification. Not so much as eating a lot of food, but gorging yourself on the best food and booze all the time, preferably while getting blitzed off the strongest narcotics you can find.


So with that in mind...

Spoiler

Show

Everyone's dreamed about the great life. Good food, great wine, all the creature comforts you could desire and more than you could imagine; no need to worry about where your next meal will come from. Of course the downside with a 'life of delights' is that it's the sort of thing only royalty can afford. Even if it wasn't, there are inevitably going to be unpleasant things that will drag you back out of the party - you'll get sick, or maybe you'll injure yourself while drunk. You'll get old and weak, too weak to reliably look after yourself.

So there's no point really hoping for this sort of lifestyle. You'll never have anything like it. You'd best get used to the day to day pains and miseries and hardships everyone who isn't lucky enough to be born noble has to go through. Because that's all you'll ever really have, and having a happy pain-free fantasy won't be anything more than just that: a fantasy to detract from the threat of death, sickness and injury.
Unless, of course, you summon a Hollow One.

It's not even that difficult, really. All you need is some alcohol (preferably wine) and a halucinogenic mushroom (like a panther cap and fly agaric). After that you just need to go deep into some woodland at night, boil your mushroom in the alcohol, consume it and then wait. Assuming you haven't accidentally poisoned yourself, you'll enter a trance like state, and here's where the spirit will approach you. All you need to do is let it inside you, which is quite easy. Once it's nestled into your stomach then you're done.

There are a lot of advantages to being a Hollow One. For a start you feel great and you can stay that way because you can't get sick anymore. The spirit inside you won't let you come down with any diseases, even ones from aging. In fact you can look forward to being in great physical health for the rest of your life. Not just physical either, mentally you feel better than you have done in a long time - you're thinking clearer and more positively than before. Even just general sights and sounds feel better, in sharper focus. Walking barefoot on the grass feels like it first did back when you were a child. You just have this real sense of well-being that doesn't go away. You'll still feel a bit sad if you're bereaved, but not enough to really impact you. You won't have to worry about feeling the pain of deep despair ever again. In fact you'll soon find you barely even feel pain at all, you can stick your hand into a fire and not feel much more than a prickle (think the Maenads from Greek mythology). Your injuries heal a lot fast too. All around you're just in a better physical and mental shape and you never have to worry about losing it.

Now obviously there's bound to be a catch here, and there is: the spirit's in your stomach and it needs food, so you'll have to eat a bit more than you used to. But even that's barely a problem, because of how things taste. That physical sense of taste is something you take for granted, but for a spirit that's new territory and everything is amazing now. A stale slice of bread tastes like freshly baced cake; the cheap ale's like the finest palace wine and when you get drunk off it it's astonishing; there aren't words to describe the wonderful flavours of that boiled rubbery grey mutton. The best part part is that, since you can't get sick now, it doesn't really matter what you eat, you'll still feel sustained and healthy; no need to worry about things like food poisoning. There aren't even any obvious signs to an outside observer that you're not really human any more. There are just no downsides to it.

Well, there is a bit of a risk. It's a question of tolerance levels really. Sure, these feelings are great, but after a while you'll start getting used to them. This is most clear in terms of food, everyone gets tired of something if that's all they eat, plus by now you've probably started wondering what actual freshly baked cake would taste like. Turns out it tastes like nothing you've ever imagined before, so good it almost makes you cry. You probably couldn't handle it too often - not that you wouldn't mind trying, of course. But the thing is, now that you've had that, your less-than-fresh bread suddenly doesn't seem all that impressive any more. That old ale is really losing it's shine, and the texture of the mutton's really starting to get boring too. You're still happy, of course you are, but there's a faint numbness to it. A sense of boredom, of not quite being stimulated enough.

You're not worried - you can't really be worried anymore, it's too negative an emotion - but you are aware of why it's a good thing people don't know what you are. Because there are stories about Hollow Ones, about how their appetites got more and more difficult to satiate. How after a while they just stopped being able to stomach the old foods at all, how they had to keep moving on to new tastes, new sensations, to keep going. How these tastes got ever more disgusting and extreme trying to find a way to satisfy themselves, and the more extreme they went the more they became unable to eat their normal foods. How after they started missing a few meals they got unbearably hungry. How they started to starve. They didn't die from it of course, they're hollow ones, the spirit wouldn't let them. But it had effects, they got really thin; their hair started falling out; their skin started getting dessicated. Until one day they found there was nothing left; they'd eaten every type of plant and animal they could eat, cooked every way and raw. Maybe in some far-flung corner of the world there might be something, but that's a long way away especially on an empty stomach.
Then they realised there was actually something they hadn't tried eating yet. No shortage of it either, it was all around them. Okay, they'd have to kill it themselves and it could probably fight back, but maybe if they started with the ones that died normall, all buried there in the graveyards. If worst came to worst, then they were still Hollow Ones - immune to pain, physically strong, driven by an all consuming hunger and the euphoric thrill of the hunt - whereas the prey, well, they would just be ordinary people. Yes, it was cannibalism but so what? They couldn't feel bad about it, not even once they were hunting down people every night, eating them alive. There was only the hunger, and the indescribable bliss at being alive and tasting all those delicious flavours.


But that won't happen to you, obviously. You'll be careful, pace yourself and not get too far over your head. Besides, what's a little risk compared to just how great everything is? You're literally getting high off life, in a way no one else really can. And like you said, it's barely even a risk. You just need to remember not to go too overboard, and since when was having another slice of pie going overboard? Nothing to worry about, not that you could even if you wanted to. But that doesn't matter, because there are just no downsides.

TL;DR version:
Basically they have greatly heightened levels of physical fitness resilience, especially towards illness, and a constant emotional state of happiness (to outright euphoria). Essentially, no risk of the usual consequences of over-indulgence. Additionally, they have substantially heightened pleasure responses, particularly towards food (if you've read Discworld, think a less extreme version of the Auditors from Thief of Time).
On the downside they need to consume more to keep this going, and experience an accelerated tolerance effect on food due to the aforementioned pleasure senses. With the end-result that if they over-indulge themselves too much of getting stuck in a cycle that ends with them being left emaciated cannibalistic ghoul-like creatures.


Granted, this does step a bit on the toes of one of your lust concepts, but I felt the physical was more appropriate for gluttony - as it's a very physical sin.


On the subject of lust though, how about approaching things from a less physical, dominating angle? If the idea of lust demons is that they're kind of pathetic (which I like, btw) maybe something that's less directly confrontational? Something that would give you power over people, but in a more voyeuristic way - like being able to turn invisible or the ability to hear other people's thoughts. You'd still be able to get what you want, but you'd be doing it in a much more manipulative way; through deceit and blackmail.

[...]

I had an idea for gluttony.
The key thing about Gluttony, as I see it, is that it's the most overtly hedonistic of the sins. It's about self-indulgence, consumption and instant gratification. Not so much as eating a lot of food, but gorging yourself on the best food and booze all the time, preferably while getting blitzed off the strongest narcotics you can find.


So with that in mind...

Spoiler

Show

Everyone's dreamed about the great life. Good food, great wine, all the creature comforts you could desire and more than you could imagine; no need to worry about where your next meal will come from. Of course the downside with a 'life of delights' is that it's the sort of thing only royalty can afford. Even if it wasn't, there are inevitably going to be unpleasant things that will drag you back out of the party - you'll get sick, or maybe you'll injure yourself while drunk. You'll get old and weak, too weak to reliably look after yourself.

So there's no point really hoping for this sort of lifestyle. You'll never have anything like it. You'd best get used to the day to day pains and miseries and hardships everyone who isn't lucky enough to be born noble has to go through. Because that's all you'll ever really have, and having a happy pain-free fantasy won't be anything more than just that: a fantasy to detract from the threat of death, sickness and injury.
Unless, of course, you summon a Hollow One.

It's not even that difficult, really. All you need is some alcohol (preferably wine) and a halucinogenic mushroom (like a panther cap and fly agaric). After that you just need to go deep into some woodland at night, boil your mushroom in the alcohol, consume it and then wait. Assuming you haven't accidentally poisoned yourself, you'll enter a trance like state, and here's where the spirit will approach you. All you need to do is let it inside you, which is quite easy. Once it's nestled into your stomach then you're done.

There are a lot of advantages to being a Hollow One. For a start you feel great and you can stay that way because you can't get sick anymore. The spirit inside you won't let you come down with any diseases, even ones from aging. In fact you can look forward to being in great physical health for the rest of your life. Not just physical either, mentally you feel better than you have done in a long time - you're thinking clearer and more positively than before. Even just general sights and sounds feel better, in sharper focus. Walking barefoot on the grass feels like it first did back when you were a child. You just have this real sense of well-being that doesn't go away. You'll still feel a bit sad if you're bereaved, but not enough to really impact you. You won't have to worry about feeling the pain of deep despair ever again. In fact you'll soon find you barely even feel pain at all, you can stick your hand into a fire and not feel much more than a prickle (think the Maenads from Greek mythology). Your injuries heal a lot fast too. All around you're just in a better physical and mental shape and you never have to worry about losing it.

Now obviously there's bound to be a catch here, and there is: the spirit's in your stomach and it needs food, so you'll have to eat a bit more than you used to. But even that's barely a problem, because of how things taste. That physical sense of taste is something you take for granted, but for a spirit that's new territory and everything is amazing now. A stale slice of bread tastes like freshly backed cake; the cheap ale like the finest palace wine and when you get drunk off it it's astonishing; there aren't words to describe the wonderful flavours of that boiled rubbery grey mutton. The best part part is that, since you can't get sick now, it doesn't really matter what you eat you'll still feel sustained and healthy; no need to worry about things like food poisoning. There aren't even any obvious signs to an outside observer that you're not really human any more. There are just no downside to it.

Well, there is a bit of a risk. It's a question of tolerance levels really. Sure, these feelings are great, but after a while you'll start getting used to them. This is most clear in terms of food, everyone gets tired of something if that's all they eat, plus by now you've probably started wondering what actual freshly baked-cake would taste like. Turns out it tastes like nothing you've ever imagined before, so good it almost makes you cry. You probably couldn't handle it too often - not that you wouldn't mind trying, of course. But the thing is, now that you've had that, your less-than fresh bread suddenly doesn't seem all that impressive any more. That old ale is really losing it's shine, and the texture of the mutton's really starting to get boring too. You're still happy, of course you are, but there's a faint numbness to it. A sense of boredom, of not quite being stimulated enough.

You're not worried - you can't really be worried anymore, it's too negative an emotion - but you are aware of why it's a good thing people don't know what you are. Because there are stories about Hollow Ones, about how their appetites got more and more difficult to satiate. How after a while they just stopped being able to stomach the old foods at all, how they had to keep moving on to new tastes, new sensations, to keep going. How these tastes got ever more disgusting and extreme trying to find a way to satisfy themselves, and the more extreme they went the more they became unable to eat their normal foods. How after they started missing a few meals they got unbearably hungry. How they started to starve. They didn't die from it of course, they're hollow ones, the spirit wouldn't let them. But it had effects, they got really thin; their hair started falling out; their skin started getting dessicated. Until one day they found there was nothing left; they'd eaten every type of plant and animal they could eat, cooked every way and raw. Maybe in some far-flung corner of the world there might be something, but that's a long way away especially on an empty stomach.
Then they realised there was actually something they hadn't tried eating yet. No shortage of it either, it was all around them. Okay, they'd have to kill it themselves and it could probably fight back, but maybe if they started with the ones that died normall, all buried there in the graveyards. If worst came to worst, then they were still Hollow Ones - immune to pain, physically strong, driven by an all consuming hunger and the euphoric thrill of the hunt - whereas the prey, well, they would just be ordinary people. Yes, it was cannibalism but so what? They couldn't feel bad about it, not even once they were hunting down people every night, eating them alive. There was the hunger, and the indescribable bliss at being alive and tasting all those delicious flavours.


But that won't happen to you, obviously. You'll be careful, pace yourself and not get too far over your head. Besides, what's a little risk compared to just how great everything is? You're literally getting high off life, in a way no one else really can. And like you said, it's barely even a risk. You just need to remember not to go too overboard, and since when was having another slice of pie going overboard? Nothing to worry about, not that you could even if you wanted to. But that doesn't matter, because there are just no downsides.

TL;DR version:
Basically they have greatly heightened levels of physical fitness resilience, especially towards illness, and a constant emotional state of happiness (to outright euphoria). Essentially, no risk of the usual consequences of over-indulgence. Additionally, they have substantially heightened pleasure responses, particularly towards food (if you've read Discworld, think a less extreme version of the Auditors from Thief of Time).
On the downside they need to consume more to keep this going, and experience an accelerated tolerance effect on food due to the aforementioned pleasure senses. With the end-result that if they over-indulge themselves too much of getting stuck in a cycle that ends with them being left emaciated cannibalistic ghoul-like creatures.


Granted, this does step a bit on the toes of one of your lust concepts, but I felt the physical was more appropriate for gluttony - as it's a very physical sin.


On the subject of lust though, how about approaching things from a less physical, dominating angle? If the idea of lust demons is that they're kind of pathetic (which I like, btw) maybe something that's less directly confrontational? Something that would give you power over people, but in a more voyeuristic way - like being able to turn invisible or the ability to hear other people's thoughts. You'd still be able to get what you want, but you'd be doing it in a much more manipulative way; through deceit and blackmail.

That. Is. SCARY. You have to put that in.

[White Blade]

Schnip

That. Is. SCARY. You have to put that in.

Credit where credit is due, that's an awesome glutton. I'll just tuck this away somewhere for future use.

On the subject of lust though, how about approaching things from a less physical, dominating angle? If the idea of lust demons is that they're kind of pathetic (which I like, btw) maybe something that's less directly confrontational? Something that would give you power over people, but in a more voyeuristic way - like being able to turn invisible or the ability to hear other people's thoughts. You'd still be able to get what you want, but you'd be doing it in a much more manipulative way; through deceit and blackmail.

The problem with invisibility (and I considered it, awhile back) is that it is too much of a thing that covers over sins. Lust, as a deadly sin, represents desire without sense. Invisibility is sort of the core of sense when it comes to taking things. I guess it might work if you made it so that only your victims could see you - Anyone you've taken anything from. That'd be interesting, in a way. A power which decreases in utility as it is used, but then there's no reason not to roam afar and just flit from town to town. Maybe you need to rob a grave and then you have to do... something there on a regular basis?

It might be fun to go with insubstantiality as a power set. Make it so that the being can switch into a misty haze, maybe one that does something to its victims (Maybe it puts them to sleep?)? But the longer they're in the form, the more of their personhood drifts away in the wind? I'm not sure if that works or not.

Still spit balling

About Pride: I really need a classic witch, I think, and I came up with a way to do it. So here's my idea, what if the Pride demon is actually Pride DemonS? So, instead of taking on one big demon, you actually take a bunch of little demons. You sow them onto your skin so they have a base and energy, which they use to go out and work mischief and serve you. But as you take them on, they persuade you to take on more and more, each one holding a tiny piece of "you" real estate. Slowly, you sell away all of that real estate without even realizing it and then YOU do THEIR bidding and your body and spirit serve as a sort of beehive for their demonic spirits.

Does that work?

[Mx.Silver]

That. Is. SCARY. You have to put that in.

Credit where credit is due, that's an awesome glutton. I'll just tuck this away somewhere for future use.

Thanks. Please feel free to alter the spoilered write-up as needed, it was a spur of the moment thing so there's bound to be room for improvement.

Incidentally, something that just occurred to me is that acts of consumption such as eating and drinking are often social activities. Which means that thematically it's possible that Gluttony Demons would have little difficulty operating in groups.

About Pride: I really need a classic witch, I think, and I came up with a way to do it. So here's my idea, what if the Pride demon is actually Pride DemonS? So, instead of taking on one big demon, you actually take a bunch of little demons. You sow them onto your skin so they have a base and energy, which they use to go out and work mischief and serve you. But as you take them on, they persuade you to take on more and more, each one holding a tiny piece of "you" real estate. Slowly, you sell away all of that real estate without even realizing it and then YOU do THEIR bidding and your body and spirit serve as a sort of beehive for their demonic spirits.

Does that work?

That's your Greed demon. Everything about that concept fits a Greed demon. The fact that it starts small and has to be accumulated; the fact that each acquisition is entirely beneficial if viewed in isolation, but have terrible consequences when looked at from the long-view; the fact that said terrible consequences could have been avoided if at any point the witch had just taken a step back and said: 'You know what? I think I have enough to get by with." But they never did, because they were too focused on immediate personal gain.
That is the Greed arc. Even the power itself fits Greed because its utility allows it to function like a whole range of different powers at once. Does the witch have enemies that need dealing with? They can spy on them, stage unfortunate accidents, if worst comes to worst just have the hive rip them apart. Does the Witch need money or power? Have the demons steal things, uncover people's secrets, research hidden knowledge. With some creativity a witch can do just about anything, but they'll never have quite enough demons to do everything they want.

[CommandTortoise]

Lust's sort of a tough one if you're not going down the succubus/incubus route since the expanded Sin (I think it'd be something along the lines of desire over reason) sorta treads on the toes of Gluttony and Greed.

Perhaps someone harbouring a Demon of Lust could possess some kind of ability to affect minds and judgement? So while they may be pathetic at heart, they don't come across as such. Someone desires something that they have get because the cost is too steep so they take the Demon into themselves so as to dull their worry and make others more willing to go along with it. With their ability to cloud a person's judgement they're able to successfully tempt people into giving into their desires and make deals with the host. They'd steadily bring those around down with them and convince them to go against their scruples while their own mind slowly degrades as the Demon insists on immediate satisfaction over any form of long-term planning.

And, after the pleasures of the flesh start to lose their luster (hehe) the host is reduced to a sort of gnawing hatred of any kind of 'higher' pursuit (though I fear that's starting to move into Envy's territory.) And that's when they turn their by now highly suggestible powerbase towards corrupting and debasing whatever they can. Perhaps throw in some ability to drain the vitality out of those that whose minds they've broken. While they may be in many ways pathetic, they heal from serious injury quickly (though perhaps not cleanly) while they have thralls nearby to draw life from.

Eh, I dunno though, I kinda feel that that's basically just a slightly more developed version of the basic succubus/incubus model. I guess when it comes to them being able to personally take what they want with their own (or rather the demon-given) prowess, that feels more like a Greed demon to me.

[SiuiS]

Exactly! I'm so glad someone understands my reasoning!

Every other sin is characterized by the sinner. Wrath is the anger and violence and inhumane action. Greed is the desire to accumulate beyond all need to detriment. Pride is an unwillingness to bend or acknowledge you may be wrong or inadequate.

Lust however, is always presented as the desire of lust. You feel wrath yourself, but you feel lust towards the personification. A better form for lust would be the slew of Nice Guy stereotypes, talking about how it's a compliment or you shouldn't send mixed signals while it clearly lacks the ability to control it's own self like a dog in heat that dry humps a leg.

Wrath is wrathful, pride is prideful, sloth is slothful. So why is lust lust-inducing? Why not lustful? Why not the satyr who plays with itself while making inappropriate eye contact and insisting you want it? Lust is always portrayed as the target of list, not lust itself. Let's stop that.

[CommandTortoise]

Every other sin is characterized by the sinner. Wrath is the anger and violence and inhumane action. Greed is the desire to accumulate beyond all need to detriment. Pride is an unwillingness to bend or acknowledge you may be wrong or inadequate.

Lust however, is always presented as the desire of lust. You feel wrath yourself, but you feel lust towards the personification. A better form for lust would be the slew of Nice Guy stereotypes, talking about how it's a compliment or you shouldn't send mixed signals while it clearly lacks the ability to control it's own self like a dog in heat that dry humps a leg.

Wrath is wrathful, pride is prideful, sloth is slothful. So why is lust lust-inducing? Why not lustful? Why not the satyr who plays with itself while making inappropriate eye contact and insisting you want it? Lust is always portrayed as the target of list, not lust itself. Let's stop that.

I suspect it's because if you take the broad definition of lust then it starts to blur together with greed and gluttony and just becomes generic materialism. And between 'demon that takes what it wants and hoards it' and 'demon that takes what it wants and consumes it' lust doesn't have much of a niche. And if you go for the narrower definition, 'demon that takes what it wants and [redacted]' can be a little uncomfortable. It's not as family friendly, anyway, and so the alternative (demon that induces lust) appears more often and becomes the convention.

Though I think embodiments of sloth often try to spread sloth, probably because 'demon that doesn't do anything because I don' wanna, go 'way, lemme rest' isn't the most proactive force ever.

[Mx.Silver]

More potential ideas.


Regarding lust demons
I agree that stepping away from the succubus route is for the best. As SiuiS has noted, it's weirdly inconsistent given that all the other demons embody their sin rather than provoke it. Plus it's been done to death. It is point that general desire might be too broad, but I can see a couple of possible options.

The first is narrowing the definition a little. The thing that primarily distinguishes lust from greed and gluttony is that the latter mostly just want things: gluttony wants to indulge and enjoy itself, greed just wants to have things for the sake of having them. Lust is more specific: the things it wants are things that can't be done without using other people. The word 'using' there is crucial, a lust demon shouldn't see others as people, just things to be used or controlled. To a lust demon, another human isn't a person with thoughts and feelings, but just something to be used for its own satisfaction, be that sexual activity, pure sadism or just a general power trip. Think a broad definition of objectification, but driven really high. This is distinct from envy, which still views its victims as people enough to want to become them.
The powers that immediately suggest themselves here are mentally affecting ones, specifically direct suggestions and, perhaps after enough exposure, full mental control. A glamour effect (which I'd say is more pride's wheelhouse, more on this later) doesn't matter because lust doesn't care enough about other people to make itself appealing to them. If it wants to influence people it'll just reach inside their heads and tell them what to think.
In regards to weaknesses, a potential one is some sort of physical degradation or mutation as time progresses and the more people it brings it targets (SiuiS mentioned the satyr, so horns seem an option*). This ties into the pathetic angle that's been mentioned before, lust is physically weak and has to rely on its human tools to protect itself (it might be worth having other demons be immune to its effects, to further emphasise this vulnerability - and give 'killing a lust demon' a potential reason for someone to become a Ragebeast or a Gelid). If you're sold on the psychological degradation aspect then a mental powerset gives a fair option for that.



The second route ties also ties into the idea of lust being pathetic, but in a bit of different way. Specifically, that what lust wants isn't so much the strength or power to accomplish them but more the ability to escape restriction and punishment for pursuing it's desires. It's not really about a particularly big picture goal. It already knows what it wants; the only problem is that it doesn't think it'll be able to get away with it. Give it that capacity, and the corruption follows naturally as without much threat of punishment the demon is free to carry out its base and petty urges as it wants, and over time those start getting less petty.
This was part of the thought behind my invisibility suggestion, playing into the 'what would you do if you knew no one would be able to find out?' idea. Invisibility traditionally works well for this (see also: Plato's Ring) because it's so easy to abuse precisely for this, but the intangibility concept also works well too.
For weakness, again I'm drawn to the idea of physical side effects and mutations. Perhaps the more the demon (ab)uses its abilities the less human it's form becomes - until its stuck as a bestial looking creature that can now only get anything it wants through the ability, having to spend the rest of its time lurking in the shadows. You might not even need a straight-up mental decay effect given where that scenario leads mentally, but there's still plenty of room for one.





Regarding pride demons
The general downfall of pride is hubris, over-confidence, and one way I can see to model that would be to take the 'vampire' or 'glass cannon' approach: strong powers and abilities but with a long list of serious weaknesses, some of them fatal.
I don't have much ideas on specific weaknesses yet, but they should include both ones that the demon would have to alter it's lifestyle around to take into account and some that can be quite easily leveraged against it by anyone who discovers the demon's true nature. I'm not as fond of the idea of a long term corruption effect though, when a pride demon fails it should because it screws up, which is very easy to do. Either it'll overestimate the extent it can handle its weaknesses, or it'll be too showy with its powers, and then suddenly it's getting a lot of visitors armed with the metaphorical garlic and holy water.
In regards to powers, again there should be a few, and again give it a fair amount of power.The idea of a glamour effect being one of them fits well, as pride really appreciates praise and acknowledgement. I can also see an ability with illusions coming in as well (tying into the self-deluding nature of excessive pride).
Essentially, the idea of the pride demon is of something stuck in a constant dilemma. It wants to be the powerful dark lord no one can stand against, but its entire survival is predicated on it being as cautious and low-key in everyday life as possible. Something that's simultaneously one of the most dangerous yet also the most vulnerable demons. People go into it because they're confident in themselves enough that they think they either don't consider the weaknesses enough of a threat to be put-off, or so enamoured with their own skill that they're sure they'll be able to make it work without too much difficulty.






*and a potential stealth reference to the novel Horns.

[Bulldog Psion]

How creepy/sinister do you want to go here as far as the lust demons go? Because serial killers are often motivated by lust -- just that it's twisted to include torture and death, too. Think of a supernatural Ted Bundy and you'll be getting the general drift of what I'm thinking a possible "lust demon" basis could be like...

[Super Evil User]

I suspect it's because if you take the broad definition of lust then it starts to blur together with greed and gluttony and just becomes generic materialism. And between 'demon that takes what it wants and hoards it' and 'demon that takes what it wants and consumes it' lust doesn't have much of a niche. And if you go for the narrower definition, 'demon that takes what it wants and [redacted]' can be a little uncomfortable. It's not as family friendly, anyway, and so the alternative (demon that induces lust) appears more often and becomes the convention.

Though I think embodiments of sloth often try to spread sloth, probably because 'demon that doesn't do anything because I don' wanna, go 'way, lemme rest' isn't the most proactive force ever.

It's also because women with big titties sell novels/issues/gamebooks/whatever like crazy. Obviously that is not a problem here.

[CommandTortoise]

If you're fine with creepy, then I agree with Mr.Silver that some sort of invisibility is best for someone hosting a Lust Demon. While with Greed and Gluttony the sin lies in taking too much, with Lust it's more the nature of the thing wanted leaves someone unable to indulge in it because of the consequences. Take away the consequences and a lot of the time the literal demon telling you to bad things is superfluous.

I'd suggest that instead of straight invisibility they should have a power that compels people to not notice the demon if it's not interacting with them or drawing attention to itself. I think it's more unsettling (creepy is like the only way to go with this) for someone to suddenly realise that the demon was right before their eyes the whole time. And for those that it does interact with, give it the power to traumatise them such that they're unable to coherently recall what happened. Perhaps as a counterbalance to the compulsion thing, it's much less likely to work on people looking for the demon or who know the identity of it. I think making its powers rely on anonymity would be a good way both to make it creepy and reinforce the 'pathetic' angle.

Going with this, perhaps they're a regular human most of the time and only have access to these powers when wearing some thing created for them by the demon which also warps their shape when worn in a way corresponding with whatever they had indulged in. So their human form is unlikely to be linked to whatever they perpetrated in demon form. Except perhaps we throw in the complications that overuse of the thing causes some of the mutations they suffer in demon form to start to appear in human form, risking things being tied to them, and that being in demon form suppresses their guilt and empathy, making them more likely to do horrible things in demon form and also more likely to go into demon form just to escape feeling bad about it. So while they try to keep it under control, eventually suspicion is going to fall on them and there's going to be pressure to just put on the thing for good and run away.

So part serial killer (or... other things), part werewolf, part horror story antagonist. This is all just me spitballing, though.