trying to make sense of ancestral relic

[bjoern]

OK, I get the whole feat except how some people say that you can sacrifice any amount of Gold into it and save it for later until your level gets high enough to use it
The feat says that the value of the item is limited by your level. If you sacrifice stuff to it, wouldn't that also increase its value?
I'm just trying to look at this from the same light as someone who it makes sense this way to.

Thanks

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The value of its magical properties is limited by your character level. You don't have to make the value of its magical properties match the total value you've added to it.

[bjoern]

The feat I'm reading (could be worded different from BOED) says the value of the relic is limited by level. Even if the gold value Is spent towards it but not used its still there. I'd think once it was sacrificed it would have to be represented numerically somewhere, and if it isn't in the relic then I'm not sure where it would be.

Is it just me or is it not intended to be used that way. My guy took it anyway just for the flexibility of spell access. I'm just trying to figure out how to present it to DM when I try to sacrifice valuable stuff as we go and try to "bank" its gp for later.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Let's say your ancestral relic is a magical rod, possibly a light mace for the base item. It's currently a Metamagic Rod of Empower, worth 32,500 gp. Let's say you need to switch it to a Metamagic Rod of Quicken, worth 35,000 gp, but you have a 10,000 gp item you want to sacrifice to it. You meditate for ten days to sacrifice that 10,000 gp item to it, but you only use 2,500 gp worth of it to upgrade it to a Rod of Quicken. The remaining 7,500 gp isn't simply wasted, it's saved for later, even though as a magic item the relic's actual value is only 35,000 gp plus whatever the masterwork base item cost.

Let's say you need to turn your Metamagic Rod of Empower into a Greater Metamagic Rod of Extend. You meditate for zero days in a consecrated area and turn it into that, which is worth 24,500 gp. That's 8,000 gp less than what it previously was, but the value isn't simply wasted. It would still retain that to be available the next time you modify it, but the relic's actual value is that of a Greater Metamagic Rod of Extend, plus the masterwork base item.

[bjoern]

So basically you spend X amount of gold to awaken X amount of spirits and spend
X/1000 days to do that.
X amount of spirits allow you to put a value of magic effects (Y) onto the item, so long as Y isn't greater than X or your level limit. The diffence of X-Y (unused amount) can be rationalized as awakened spirits remaining in the item that are unused at this time but give no material value to the item. And to modify it you have to spend days equal to the difference of what Y is now and what it will be, even if the GP is already there.

So you have to spend the meditation twice using the banking method. Once to sacrifice the value, then again to apply it to increase its value later.

Sound good?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sounds right.

[bjoern]

OK, thanks. It makes as much sense to me that way as I think it can. I'll present it to him like that and see if he allows it. He's a RAW guy and allows anything printed to be used. he encourages optimization and if it makes sense then its allowed whether its OP or not. Celerity, polymorph, flaws, its all good.
Only rule is no drow at all. I'm guessing in the past that he got annoyed with having a full party of scimitar wielding rangers all the time.

[bjoern]

Another question. Say you've got a rune staff worth 10k. No extra gold sacrificed to it or anything. And you meditate to change it to a magic staff worth 10k that uses charges rather than uses per day.
Does is take 0gp/1000 days? So like 8hrs, free action, house rule something?

And, once the charges of the staff are spent can you meditate to make it a 10k staff again. Or do you have to give it more gold since its current value is basically zero since its out of charges.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you give it limited charges then its magical value decreases per charge used.

If you want to change it to something of identical value or less, then the number of days of meditation it takes is zero. You don't have to spend 8 hours meditating, because that would be one day's worth. You spend zero time, so it doesn't even take a free action because a free action is greater than zero.

[bjoern]

Other than the actions necessary to light a candle right, since it still has the limitation of needing to be on hallowed ground to sacrifice or modify?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Other than the actions necessary to light a candle right, since it still has the limitation of needing to be on hallowed ground to sacrifice or modify?

Correct, get some Incense of Meditation in BoED, light it, switch your relic, and extinguish the incense to preserve the remainder of its duration.

[bjoern]

Here's a scenario. Please tell me if its legit.

I've got my rune staff with 5 level 2 spells, each usable once per day. Well call these spells: A,B,C,D,and E.
I cast each one once, expanding the rune staffs utility for the day. Can I meditate to pick five different level 2 spells F,G,H,I,and J?

Then use those 5 spells up and then change it back to the first 5 spells again (A,B,C,D,and E) and end up being right back where I started with a fresh rune staff for the day?

Granted , I've probably blown through all my level 2 slots by now.

EDIT- after thinking about it, if I used a 2nd level spell from the staff its value (2^2x200gp) would be spent and unavailable until the next day. At least that's how id rule it if I was DM. This feat needs a leash as I'd say its broken in the sense that it gives a sorcerer (or anyone else for that matter) all spells know from levels they have access to.