Hearthstone 7: Maexxna...is a GIANT SPIDER! Muahahaha

[huttj509]

Man, this Paladin arena deck just feels kinda solid. Nothing "that's AMAZING!" but just been solid. Currently 3-0 (I just jinxxed it, didn't I?), and I feel it might beat my record of 5 wins.

Spoiler: Paladin Arena

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Humility
Repentance
Worgen Infiltrator
Argent Protector
Loot Hoarder
Mad Bomber
Sunfury Protector
Sword of Justice
Aldor Peacekeeper
Earthen Ring Farseer
Flesheating Ghoul
Ironfur Grizzly
Scarlet Crusader
Truesilver Champion
Consecration
Hammer of Wrath
Cult Master
Dark Iron Dwarf
Gnomish Inventor
Sen'jin Shieldmaster x2
Spellbreaker
Stormwind Knight
Azure Drake
Fen Creeper
Sludge Belcher
Priestess of Elune
Guardian of Kings x2
Stormwind Champion

Man, 30 card deck, and I have 28 unique cards. Only 2 duplicates. Got good use out of the Sword of Justice. Fun weapon.

[Rosstin]

I just got an 11 with a pretty mediocre-feeling mage deck. You just never know.

[Anarion]

Double also, I just realized that now that I'm recording arena runs, I can actually ask for advice on picks meaningfully and all of that. http://www.arenamastery.com/arena.ph...&arena=342109#

Spoiler: Thoughts on that linked draft

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Looking at that list, I'd have considered the raptor 5th pick over the corsair. 3/3 taunts never seem to do much, and sometimes it's overcosted to boot.

I'm also wondering if you took that 8th pick arcanite reaper because you had the corsair. Granted you already had one dark iron dwarf, but it's a great card as is spectral knight and I'm not sure arcanite reaper is the right pick there.

9th, I actually like execute over dire wolf alpha. It solves problem cards even though it's rarely card advantage.

I'm not sure about the rampage at pick 24. You already had a leper gnome, and windfury harpy isn't exactly something to write home about, but rampage isn't that great and the only cards in your deck I'd expect to be sitting around with damage on them are the sunwalker and pair of kodos. And even then, not that often. None of the choices were great, but I tend to default to taking an extra mid-size body in that situation and would probably have gone with the harpy.

Lucky snagging a war axe at pick 27. You almost didn't get one, which always sucks.

Pick 28, I'd have taken the swords. The ghoul never does anything, the swords can get in some solid damage or trade well, even though they give you card disadvantage.

[huttj509]

I just got an 11 with a pretty mediocre-feeling mage deck. You just never know.

OMG, I'm 6-1. 6-1! 84 Arena wins in and I hit a 6 streak! *wheeze* I...I need to lie down for a bit.

Edit: Finished 7-3. Pretty close fights. And I got a pack (nothing exciting), 25 dust (meh), and 155 gold! So, um, free pack and dust, and I have the gold to do another arena.

[Silfir]

Spoiler: Thoughts on that linked draft

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I'm also wondering if you took that 8th pick arcanite reaper because you had the corsair. Granted you already had one dark iron dwarf, but it's a great card as is spectral knight and I'm not sure arcanite reaper is the right pick there.

Pick 28, I'd have taken the swords. The ghoul never does anything, the swords can get in some solid damage or trade well, even though they give you card disadvantage.

I'd pick Arcanite Reaper over Spectral Knight any day. Its first swing will usually kill something about as big as the Spectral Knight, the second one severely limits the opponent's choices. Dark Iron Dwarf might slightly edge it out, but it's a defensible pick.

Dancing Swords I don't think ever trades well enough to justify its drawback. All you need to 2-for-1 against it is a 3/2 you played on turn 2 and a damaging hero power, a ping, a slight buff... Dancing Swords would only be good in the kind of deck that wins before the card disadvantage becomes an issue, namely an aggro deck, but even then it can help your victim draw into board clear. Flesheating Ghoul isn't all that hard to drop as a 3/3, and that's already good enough considering it also doesn't draw your opponent a card. Drop it as a 4/3, and it's only marginally harder to kill, just as powerful, and still doesn't draw your opponent a card. And it can snowball from there, which Dancing Swords can't.

[Tectonic Robot]

I'd pick Arcanite Reaper over Spectral Knight any day. Its first swing will usually kill something about as big as the Spectral Knight, the second one severely limits the opponent's choices. Dark Iron Dwarf might slightly edge it out, but it's a defensible pick.

Dancing Swords I don't think ever trades well enough to justify its drawback. All you need to 2-for-1 against it is a 3/2 you played on turn 2 and a damaging hero power, a ping, a slight buff... Dancing Swords would only be good in the kind of deck that wins before the card disadvantage becomes an issue, namely an aggro deck, but even then it can help your victim draw into board clear. Flesheating Ghoul isn't all that hard to drop as a 3/3, and that's already good enough considering it also doesn't draw your opponent a card. Drop it as a 4/3, and it's only marginally harder to kill, just as powerful, and still doesn't draw your opponent a card. And it can snowball from there, which Dancing Swords can't.

Gotta disagree on the prioritizing Arcanite Reaper over good old Spectra Knight. 4/6 is a really, really good statline, and having a big, solid creature which is immune to non-boardwipeish removal is a huge boon!

[Anxe]

I'd pick Arcanite Reaper over Spectral Knight any day. Its first swing will usually kill something about as big as the Spectral Knight, the second one severely limits the opponent's choices. Dark Iron Dwarf might slightly edge it out, but it's a defensible pick.

Dancing Swords I don't think ever trades well enough to justify its drawback. All you need to 2-for-1 against it is a 3/2 you played on turn 2 and a damaging hero power, a ping, a slight buff... Dancing Swords would only be good in the kind of deck that wins before the card disadvantage becomes an issue, namely an aggro deck, but even then it can help your victim draw into board clear. Flesheating Ghoul isn't all that hard to drop as a 3/3, and that's already good enough considering it also doesn't draw your opponent a card. Drop it as a 4/3, and it's only marginally harder to kill, just as powerful, and still doesn't draw your opponent a card. And it can snowball from there, which Dancing Swords can't.

I'd agree that the Ghoul is a better pick than Dancing Swords. Your opponent is going to fall over themselves to kill both of them, but for different reasons. The Swords are good for them to kill. The Ghoul is bad for them to not kill. Maybe if you had Undertaker the Swords would be better?

[Anarion]

I'd pick Arcanite Reaper over Spectral Knight any day. Its first swing will usually kill something about as big as the Spectral Knight, the second one severely limits the opponent's choices. Dark Iron Dwarf might slightly edge it out, but it's a defensible pick.

Dancing Swords I don't think ever trades well enough to justify its drawback. All you need to 2-for-1 against it is a 3/2 you played on turn 2 and a damaging hero power, a ping, a slight buff... Dancing Swords would only be good in the kind of deck that wins before the card disadvantage becomes an issue, namely an aggro deck, but even then it can help your victim draw into board clear. Flesheating Ghoul isn't all that hard to drop as a 3/3, and that's already good enough considering it also doesn't draw your opponent a card. Drop it as a 4/3, and it's only marginally harder to kill, just as powerful, and still doesn't draw your opponent a card. And it can snowball from there, which Dancing Swords can't.

Yeah I'll concede the ghoul is fine. My experience with it has been consistently lackluster, but you're probably right that I'm overestimating how much the swords can trade effectively. I feel like a 4/4 for 3 ought to get two cards or a big chunk of the opponent's life and a tempo advantage, but I haven't played with it enough to know for sure.

With arcanite reaper, I did say I wasn't sure what the pick was there. It's not so much that I think he was wrong to take it, as that I think that's a pick worth careful consideration. Reaper is a great card, but the kinds of things you want to remove with high toughness can also hit your face pretty hard. It can also be a 10 damage nuke to the opponent, but it's one of the slower weapons and if you're using it wrong or already in a tight spot, it can provide less board presence than one might like. Dark iron dwarf is a great card, and I think that spectral knight is also a spectacular 5-drop, so I consider that decision to be one of the hardest choices out of the draft. Depending on what kind of deck and style the drafter likes, I think that any of the three picks were defensible.

[Silfir]

Gotta disagree on the prioritizing Arcanite Reaper over good old Spectra Knight. 4/6 is a really, really good statline, and having a big, solid creature which is immune to non-boardwipeish removal is a huge boon!

So is a 5-2 weapon for 5. They're both great, is the point, I just think weapons have more of an impact overall than one single, albeit well-statted, minion. "Any day" was misstated, though. I would probably pick Spectral Knight if I already had an Arcanite Reaper or a Death's Bite or two. It's hard to compare the two cards outright since they don't fill the same role. But in a vacuum, I would pick the first Arcanite Reaper over a Spectral Knight.

My main beef with Spectral Knight (and it's probably ever so slightly unfair) is that its ability shines the most if you're ahead. If your opponent has a board, chances are they have a halfway decent way to trade it off; it's when they have no board and a hand full of removal that they'll hate seeing it the most. Arcanite Reaper, on the other hand, is what can allow a Warrior to swing the board around mid-game in the first place, so ideally you'd have both.

It might be that the addition of Death's Bite to the card pool necessitates a shift in this evaluation; it's made it somewhat easier to come into mid-game weapons. But weapons in general tend to be how warriors create both tempo and card advantage; a weaponless warrior is unlikely to make it far. (So is a minionless warrior, so it's a question of finding the right mix.)

At any rate, all of those three cards were good; picking any of them over the other is unlikely to make a big impact on the overall viability of the Arena deck. The problematic picks of that draft were elsewhere.

EDIT:

Yeah I'll concede the ghoul is fine. My experience with it has been consistently lackluster, but you're probably right that I'm overestimating how much the swords can trade effectively. I feel like a 4/4 for 3 ought to get two cards or a big chunk of the opponent's life and a tempo advantage, but I haven't played with it enough to know for sure.

Even if 4/4 does take two cards from the opponent - and that's far from guaranteed; there are several 3-drops that trade evenly with it (Jungle Panther, Scarlet Crusader, Harvest Golem) without assistance - that's only breaking even in terms of card advantage, and if it does take two cards from the opponent, they're small cards. It's probably a good outcome for the player of Dancing Swords if it ends up eating, say, a Fireball, since decks only have so much quality removal.

If you want something big enough to warrant a drawback, I'd look at King Mukla. He is big enough, especially if you can clear the board so the Bananas lose value.

With arcanite reaper, I did say I wasn't sure what the pick was there. It's not so much that I think he was wrong to take it, as that I think that's a pick worth careful consideration. Reaper is a great card, but the kinds of things you want to remove with high toughness can also hit your face pretty hard. It can also be a 10 damage nuke to the opponent, but it's one of the slower weapons and if you're using it wrong or already in a tight spot, it can provide less board presence than one might like. Dark iron dwarf is a great card, and I think that spectral knight is also a spectacular 5-drop, so I consider that decision to be one of the hardest choices out of the draft. Depending on what kind of deck and style the drafter likes, I think that any of the three picks were defensible.

My thinking on Warriors in Arena is this: Their hero power does nothing but protect them from damage they're going to sustain in the future. That means that there are few things more impotent than a Warrior that's run out of cards.

So any way you can offer to a warrior in which they sacrifice life for card advantage and/or tempo, a warrior should smirk devilishly in reply and grunt: "Good." Firey War Axe and Gorehowl might be best at the job, but even mid-game minions should rarely be big enough that the damage you take in the short term taking them out exceeds the board advantage you get out of it at a discount.

'Sides, Arcanite Reaper is still a damn sight faster than Spectral Knight. If your situation is so dire that you can't even eat short-term damage to remove a mid-game threat that would eventually deal more damage than that if left unchecked, having a Spectral Knight instead is even worse; what you'd want to see in your hand at that point is something like Kor'kron Elite, Execute, Argent Commander, Sunwalker or Mortal Strike.

[Tectonic Robot]

So is a 5-2 weapon for 5. They're both great, is the point, I just think weapons have more of an impact overall than one single, albeit well-statted, minion. "Any day" was misstated, though. I would probably pick Spectral Knight if I already had an Arcanite Reaper or a Death's Bite or two. It's hard to compare the two cards outright since they don't fill the same role. But in a vacuum, I would pick the first Arcanite Reaper over a Spectral Knight.

My main beef with Spectral Knight (and it's probably ever so slightly unfair) is that its ability shines the most if you're ahead. If your opponent has a board, chances are they have a halfway decent way to trade it off; it's when they have no board and a hand full of removal that they'll hate seeing it the most. Arcanite Reaper, on the other hand, is what can allow a Warrior to swing the board around mid-game in the first place, so ideally you'd have both.

It might be that the addition of Death's Bite to the card pool necessitates a shift in this evaluation; it's made it somewhat easier to come into mid-game weapons. But weapons in general tend to be how warriors create both tempo and card advantage; a weaponless warrior is unlikely to make it far. (So is a minionless warrior, so it's a question of finding the right mix.)

At any rate, all of those three cards were good; picking any of them over the other is unlikely to make a big impact on the overall viability of the Arena deck. The problematic picks of that draft were elsewhere.

In my experience, Arcanite Reaper and Gorehowl aren't played much in Control Warrior these days (although Fiery Waraxe is always a staple), although the weapons certainly are good. Spectral Knight usually two-for-ones even if you play him naked on an empty board, unless your opponent has a several big dudes out already.

One last thing; you might have considered Shade instead of Mountain at the end? Shade's a pretty neat new card, in my experience!

[D-naras]

i have enough dust for a legendary. Since I am not really playing constructed much (i try to gather gold from arenas and it's going sloooooow) what's a cool generic legendary to craft these days?

I already have Antonidas, VanCleef, Al'Akir, Leeroy, Baron Geddon, Ragnaros, Alexstraza, Malygos and Onyxia.

I am guessing most will suggest Thalnos or Cairne, and I am leaning towards the cow myself, but I could be persuaded otherwise...

[Silfir]

In my experience, Arcanite Reaper and Gorehowl aren't played much in Control Warrior these days (although Fiery Waraxe is always a staple), although the weapons certainly are good. Spectral Knight usually two-for-ones even if you play him naked on an empty board, unless your opponent has a several big dudes out already.

One last thing; you might have considered Shade instead of Mountain at the end? Shade's a pretty neat new card, in my experience!

Well, this is mostly about Arena; I don't know the Constructed meta all that well. I did think Gorehowl was one of the key components of Control Warrior, how do warriors handle midrange without it? Or is it just that the meta is so inundated with Zoo and Secret Hunter that Gorehowl simply never gets to do anything?

Keep in mind that last pick wasn't Mountain Giant, but Sea Giant. Sea Giant is one of the best epic Arena picks there are, full stop. (Mountain Giant is one of the worst, full stop.) Shade of Naxxramas is at least decent since it will be a 3/3 for 3 by the time you first get to use it, and it still keeps growing after that. It's also a skill test; people like to keep it stealthed so it can grow unimpeded, and that can be a serious mistake. As long as you don't actually attack with the Shade, its 3 mana investment goes unused, while whatever the opponent did with his 3 mana at that point probably did. As soon as you play the Shade, it has big neon letters flashing over it saying "SAVE A SILENCE FOR ME". Or Hex, or Polymorph, or Execute. So saving it too long is wrong, using it right away might waste its potential - the truth is somewhere in the middle, and probably dependant on how the individual game is going.

I don't see how it could hope to touch Sea Giant, but it's better than a lot of Epics. Can't tell you where in the order I would place it exactly. Behind Big Game Hunter, Blood Knight, probably closely behind Faceless Manipulator?

[Tectonic Robot]

i have enough dust for a legendary. Since I am not really playing constructed much (i try to gather gold from arenas and it's going sloooooow) what's a cool generic legendary to craft these days?

I already have Antonidas, VanCleef, Al'Akir, Leeroy, Baron Geddon, Ragnaros, Alexstraza, Malygos and Onyxia.

I am guessing most will suggest Thalnos or Cairne, and I am leaning towards the cow myself, but I could be persuaded otherwise...

Thalnos is a really good generic legendary. He fits into a whole lotta decks. I'd lean towards making one of him.

Well, this is mostly about Arena; I don't know the Constructed meta all that well. I did think Gorehowl was one of the key components of Control Warrior, how do warriors handle midrange without it? Or is it just that the meta is so inundated with Zoo and Secret Hunter that Gorehowl simply never gets to do anything?

Keep in mind that last pick wasn't Mountain Giant, but Sea Giant. Sea Giant is one of the best epic Arena picks there are, full stop. (Mountain Giant is one of the worst, full stop.) Shade of Naxxramas is at least decent since it will be a 3/3 for 3 by the time you first get to use it, and it still keeps growing after that. It's also a skill test; people like to keep it stealthed so it can grow unimpeded, and that can be a serious mistake. As long as you don't actually attack with the Shade, its 3 mana investment goes unused, while whatever the opponent did with his 3 mana at that point probably did. As soon as you play the Shade, it has big neon letters flashing over it saying "SAVE A SILENCE FOR ME". Or Hex, or Polymorph, or Execute. So saving it too long is wrong, using it right away might waste its potential - the truth is somewhere in the middle, and probably dependant on how the individual game is going.

I don't see how it could hope to touch Sea Giant, but it's better than a lot of Epics. Can't tell you where in the order I would place it exactly. Behind Big Game Hunter, Blood Knight, probably closely behind Faceless Manipulator?

The general consensus is that Gorehowl is too slow, yeah. I think cards like Sludge Belcher or Unstable Ghoul are favored over it at the moment. (I still run Gorehowl because I don't actually have enough cards to make a real control Warrior so its basically a removal heavy midrange warrior deck.)

Your thoughts on Sea Giant seem well thought out, though. Gratz.

Zevox; I want to apologize for my conduct a few days ago. I was rather confrontational and rude; I was having a bad day and kinda snapped about a small thing. You're probably right about Kel'Thuzad, at least for now; a deck that properly takes advantage of his power is needed before he's as good as Rag is. (I think he's actually a little faster than Ysera, so he's not necessarily worse than her...)

[Anarion]

I agree with Silfir on the sea giant pick (which is why I didn't bring it up when discussing the picks). Sea giant is spectacularly good, often coming down only a couple turns later than the shade and having a much bigger impact.

[ex cathedra]

I am guessing most will suggest Thalnos or Cairne, and I am leaning towards the cow myself, but I could be persuaded otherwise...

cairne is pretty much the best

Thalnos is a really good generic legendary. He fits into a whole lotta decks. I'd lean towards making one of him.

he certainly used to fit into a whole lot of decks, but the current metagame is absolutely dominated by decks that don't run him at all. meanwhile, cairne and sylvanas remain excellent and very good, respectively, since they actually fit into a great deal of decks, rather than just a single archetype.

[Zevox]

i have enough dust for a legendary. Since I am not really playing constructed much (i try to gather gold from arenas and it's going sloooooow) what's a cool generic legendary to craft these days?

I already have Antonidas, VanCleef, Al'Akir, Leeroy, Baron Geddon, Ragnaros, Alexstraza, Malygos and Onyxia.

I am guessing most will suggest Thalnos or Cairne, and I am leaning towards the cow myself, but I could be persuaded otherwise...

"Generic?" Cairne, no question. He's a value legendary at a cost that isn't too high, allowing him to fit into any non-aggro deck. You can't go wrong with him.

Zevox; I want to apologize for my conduct a few days ago. I was rather confrontational and rude; I was having a bad day and kinda snapped about a small thing. You're probably right about Kel'Thuzad, at least for now; a deck that properly takes advantage of his power is needed before he's as good as Rag is. (I think he's actually a little faster than Ysera, so he's not necessarily worse than her...)

Apology accepted, though to be honest I don't feel it was necessary. You were a bit vehement in that discussion, but not to the point where I felt you were being rude or took any offense.

And yes, Kel is a bit faster than Ysera, being one mana cheaper. I'd still take Ysera over him in general though, since she literally feeds you an extra card per turn in any circumstance, where Kel's value is heavily dictated by the board state.

[Infernally Clay]

On a scale of one to ten, how bad is this gimmick deck?

[Tectonic Robot]

On a scale of one to ten, how bad is this gimmick deck?

I dunno, like a 7?

Beats Deck of Legendaries probably, at least!

[D-naras]

On a scale of one to ten, how bad is this gimmick deck?

0 obviously. 11/10 Silver Hand recruits ftw

[Silfir]

On a scale of one to ten, how bad is this gimmick deck?

I'm trying to find the Echoing Oozes in it, but they seem to have been cropped out of the screenshot.

[Lheticus]

[QUOTE=Infernally Clay;18013792]On a scale of one to ten, how bad is this gimmick deck?

Wait, which end of the scale is which?

[Hamste]

Wait, which end of the scale is which?

The center is the best of course.

[Lheticus]

The center is the best of course.

Is this scale TRYING to not make sense? XD

[Hamste]

Is this scale TRYING to not make sense? XD

Eh, it still makes more sense than the ph scale (well there it does make sense but it is annoying to understand)

[Lheticus]

So...we're operating on the assumption he actually doesn't much want true feedback? Ooh, even I can put my 2 cents in! On that scale of 1 to 10, I say...wumbo.

[Hamste]

So...we're operating on the assumption he actually doesn't much want true feedback? Ooh, even I can put my 2 cents in! On that scale of 1 to 10, I say...wumbo.

Well seeing it is based on the center, 9.9999999999999999999999 or 1.0000000000000001 is pretty bad and 5.5 is the best. See, it still makes more sense than a negative logarithmic scale that measures the number of hydrogen positive ions to tell you how acidic or basic a solution is (I hope I got that right :P)

[efdf]

Is it intended that Avenge resurrects your minions when there are simultaneous deaths (x/-1 gets buffed to x+3/1)

[ex cathedra]

Is it intended that Avenge resurrects your minions when there are simultaneous deaths (x/-1 gets buffed to x+3/1)

consistent with dark cultist buffing x/1's after getting swiped or death's bited.

[Tectonic Robot]

Why did I go to the toxic cesspool that is the official forums? Its 90% people throwing around slurs and whining about decks being too popular or unfair, slash other people complaining about the complainers and saying 'l2play' or whatevs!

[nhbdy]

Why did I go to the toxic cesspool that is the official forums? Its 90% people throwing around slurs and whining about decks being too popular or unfair, slash other people complaining about the complainers and saying 'l2play' or whatevs!

Congratulations, you've found most of the internet?