Hearthstone 7: Maexxna...is a GIANT SPIDER! Muahahaha

[Zevox]

Sometimes its a little hard to feel good about playing Loatheb, since you don't actually see how much he disrupts your opponent.

Then there are times when you play him against a Hunter and the only thing he can do is play a six-mana Flare. That feels really good.

[The Glyphstone]

Wow. 0-3 with a Mage deck, my worst showing in a long time. I had 2 Yetis, 3 DIDs, and a good spread of cards up and down from 4. But my first two opponents seemed to drop nothing but taunters - Shieldbearers, Voidwalkers, FROSTWOLF GRUNTS, Tauren Warriors, Shieldmastas, Fen Creepers. It was ridiculous. I couldn't clear them out fast enough before the big threats started dropping.

Garbage pack too. Bah.

[Hamste]

Heh, if you kill a hero with a bane of doom it still summons a demon. I found that pretty funny.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I redid my deck based on everyone's advice, and I am seeing better results, but...there's still lots of things that can surprise me. I won 2, then lost against a Warlock deck. I was about to win, but then he played some bat**** card that REPLACED HIS HERO with a hero with 15 health, a weapon that did 3 damage and had an absurd amount of stamina, and his new Hero ability summoned a SIX/SIX for 2 mana! I STILL almost managed to win, but he had a gazillion cards in hand by this point and I wasn't able to stall him enough. One more shot with my own weapon would have done it, though.

Because it replaced his hero, I was too busy reading that effect when he played it to get the card's name. Anyone know wtf I was up against?

Yeah.....that's Handlock for ya. The bad news is that there's still a learning curve to cards and decktypes in Hearthstone. The good news is that as you run into them and learn about them, you'll learn to play against them.

[Lheticus]

Yeah.....that's Handlock for ya. The bad news is that there's still a learning curve to cards and decktypes in Hearthstone. The good news is that as you run into them and learn about them, you'll learn to play against them.

What I could REALLY use learning to play against is Hunter decks. They have so many different types of removal and SO MUCH of it that I can't possibly be ready for all of it. Of special concern are the cards that say "destroy a minion" or random minion--unless I'm much mistaken, those cards would take out TIRION FRIGGING FORDRING even if his bubble thing was still up.

Any battle I get into with Hunter decks invariably devolves into me not being able to get rid of his minions because whatever hits the board the previous turn gets nuked and then some by the time my next turn comes around. Anyone have any pointers? I'll post my deck if you think it will help!

[Mystic Muse]

What I could REALLY use learning to play against is Hunter decks. They have so many different types of removal and SO MUCH of it that I can't possibly be ready for all of it. Of special concern are the cards that say "destroy a minion" or random minion--unless I'm much mistaken, those cards would take out TIRION FRIGGING FORDRING even if his bubble thing was still up.

Yep. Destroy bypasses Divine Shield.

[Xondoure]

What I could REALLY use learning to play against is Hunter decks. They have so many different types of removal and SO MUCH of it that I can't possibly be ready for all of it. Of special concern are the cards that say "destroy a minion" or random minion--unless I'm much mistaken, those cards would take out TIRION FRIGGING FORDRING even if his bubble thing was still up.

Any battle I get into with Hunter decks invariably devolves into me not being able to get rid of his minions because whatever hits the board the previous turn gets nuked and then some by the time my next turn comes around. Anyone have any pointers? I'll post my deck if you think it will help!

Well sure, but then you have an ashbringer to wreck havoc with. Which is why Tirion is such a good card. Without silence, even killing him can put your opponent in a bad position. This is why deathrattles are so darn useful. As far as basic cards go: harvest golem is the one that uses this to help you make good trades.

My suggestion would be to look at some arena tier lists and try your hand there. It can give you a good idea of how cards interact, what works, and what doesn't work. At the very least it'll give you a chance to use cards outside of your collection, which is always fun.

[Math_Mage]

Anyone have any pointers? I'll post my deck if you think it will help!

Since multiple people have requested you do just that...

[Zevox]

What I could REALLY use learning to play against is Hunter decks. They have so many different types of removal and SO MUCH of it that I can't possibly be ready for all of it. Of special concern are the cards that say "destroy a minion" or random minion--unless I'm much mistaken, those cards would take out TIRION FRIGGING FORDRING even if his bubble thing was still up.

Yes. It's called hard removal, and every class has it in some form, often as one of their basic cards.

Mage: Polymorph.
Shaman: Hex.
Rogue: Assassinate.
Warrior: Execute.
Priest: Shadow Word: Pain and Shadow Word: Death.
Druid: Naturalize (common; this one is bad and nobody uses it, because it lets the opponent draw two cards).
Hunter: Deadly Shot (common).
Warlock: Siphon Soul (rare).

The only class technically without one is Paladin, but it has something very close which is situationally far better: Equality (rare), which sets all minions' health to 1, allowing for total board wipe in combination with cards like Wild Pyromancer, Consecration, or Avenging Wrath.

Generally speaking, the best ones are Hex and Polymorph, because they bypass even deathrattles, are not situational (like Execute and the Shadow Words), not random (Deadly Shot), and are fairly cheap (cheaper than Assassinate or Siphon Soul). As mentioned though, the Paladins Equality is situationally better, because you can wipe an entire board with it and another card. It is weak against divine shield, though, where true hard removal is not.

Anyone have any pointers?

Against Hunter, even more so than other classes, you have to learn what they're probably going to do and play around it. Unleash the Hounds is the big one - you can't afford to give him too many hounds, so you need to keep your board as small as you reasonably, definitely not going over three minions at a time. It's also important to be aware of their secrets, since unlike the other classes that have them Hunter's are actually pretty good and commonly played. Knowing which secrets they're most likely to play, what the tells are (for instance: if a Hunter ever uses Hunter's Mark and a secret and does not kill the thing they used Hunter's Mark on, it's an explosive trap for sure), and getting a feel for when and how to play around them is important. It's sometimes actually correct not to hit a Hunter when he has a secret up, if that secret would cause you a lot of trouble - especially if he has a one-use Eaglehorn Bow in play at the time, since that will get extra uses when his secrets activate.

I'll post my deck if you think it will help!

It very well could. Deck critique can always be a helpful thing, especially when you're new.

[Lheticus]

Since multiple people have requested you do just that...

It very well could. Deck critique can always be a helpful thing, especially when you're new.

Well, gosh! All right already, here it is:

Paladin deck v1.5

Humility
Acidic Swamp Ooze x2
Haunted Creeper x2
Novice Engineer x2
Aldor Peacekeeper
Ironfur Grizzly x2
Truesilver Champion x2
Consecration x2
Hammer of Wrath x2
Chillwind Yeti x2
Cult Master
Mogu'shan Warden
Sen'jin Shieldmasta x2
Spellbreaker x2
Booty Bay Bodyguard x2
Stranglethorn Tiger
Lord of the Arena x2
Tirion Fordring

Even just writing it out, I already see 2 major concerns: in all probability, WAY too much emphasis on Taunt for one thing, and for another, I have no idea why Cult Master and Mogu'shan Warden are still in there--Cult Master has almost NEVER been truly useful in practice, and Mogu'shan Warden hasn't been useful on significantly more occasions than Cult Master. So, unless you have a reason I should keep them, you can assume those two will be going away first with my next edits.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yeah, Mogu'shan isn't good for much. That 1 Attack won't kill anything worthwhile.

I get the feeling that the Cult Master needs the right sort of setup to be useful.

[Hircine]

Well, gosh! All right already, here it is:

Paladin deck v1.5

Humility
Acidic Swamp Ooze x2
Haunted Creeper x2
Novice Engineer x2
Aldor Peacekeeper
Ironfur Grizzly x2
Truesilver Champion x2
Consecration x2
Hammer of Wrath x2
Chillwind Yeti x2
Cult Master
Mogu'shan Warden
Sen'jin Shieldmasta x2
Spellbreaker x2
Booty Bay Bodyguard x2
Stranglethorn Tiger
Lord of the Arena x2
Tirion Fordring

Even just writing it out, I already see 2 major concerns: in all probability, WAY too much emphasis on Taunt for one thing, and for another, I have no idea why Cult Master and Mogu'shan Warden are still in there--Cult Master has almost NEVER been truly useful in practice, and Mogu'shan Warden hasn't been useful on significantly more occasions than Cult Master. So, unless you have a reason I should keep them, you can assume those two will be going away first with my next edits.

First of all drop both aggro taunts. Lord of the Arena and Booty Bay Bodyguard are bad. Mogu'shan, Cult Master, Iron Fur Grizzly, and Novice engineer don't work well in a control paladin. If you want early card draw I recommend Loot Hoarder.

[Destro_Yersul]

Okay, let's see...

Mogu'Shan Warden is bad, and should be taken out for sure, as you've figured out. Cult Master is okay, but should probably go as well.

Moving past the problems you've identified...

Humility is ok if you also run Stampeding Kodo. You don't, so I'd drop it for now.
Gnomish Inventor is a better choice than Novice Engineer, as is Loot Hoarder. Pick one of those and run it instead.
Ironfur Grizzly is not great. Harvest Golem or Earthen Ring Farseer will serve you better. Also, run another Aldor Peacekeeper as soon as you get it.
Spellbreaker is ok, but not really necessary, and as a paladin your 4 spot is already pretty heavy. I might keep one in, especially with all the deathrattle running around these days.
Sludge Belcher is better than Booty Bay Bodyguard, if you want to keep taunt.
Tiger and Lord of the Arena are not great. I'd take Stormwind Champion over those for sure.

[Hamste]

Hmm, let's see. I would suggest replacing novice with loot hoarder. It is unlikely for the loot hoarder to be silenced and it might kill something before dying where novice is unlikely to. I would definitely suggest replacing most of your taunt except senjin, Tirion and possibly the bear (if you have nothing better but you almost certainly do) with something else. Spell breaker is pretty poor as well as it dies to a 2 drop. Cult master isn't that bad, if you trade with one thing on the board it has paid for itself and most opponents will either trade or use removal to kill it, that said it still isn't the best. I take it you don't have another peacekeeper? If you do have another play it. Also if you have them I suggest switching the haunted creepers out for knife jugglers (haunted creeper is a really slow card that is bad late so it is more for buff decks) or another minion. You also probably want to switch stranglethorn out for something else.

[Lheticus]

Hmm, let's see. I would suggest replacing novice with loot hoarder. It is unlikely for the loot hoarder to be silenced and it might kill something before dying where novice is unlikely to. I would definitely suggest replacing most of your taunt except senjin, Tirion and possibly the bear (if you have nothing better but you almost certainly do) with something else. Spell breaker is pretty poor as well as it dies to a 2 drop. Cult master isn't that bad, if you trade with one thing on the board it has paid for itself and most opponents will either trade or use removal to kill it, that said it still isn't the best. I take it you don't have another peacekeeper? If you do have another play it. Also if you have them I suggest switching the haunted creepers out for knife jugglers (haunted creeper is a really slow card that is bad late so it is more for buff decks) or another minion. You also probably want to switch stranglethorn out for something else.

Pretty much everyone has said Loot Hoarder...yeah, I don't got one of those yet. I don't have another Peacekeeper, in fact I had to craft the one I DO have--after playing it in a Paladin arena deck I knew it was good. I'm going to keep the Spellbreakers--silencing has proven really useful so far, and not just against Deathrattles. I don't have any Knife Jugglers--I wouldn't need to be advised to use them if I did. As for replacing Humility, which someone else suggested, I DID replace the OTHER one I was running when I crafted the Peacekeeper.

Editing because there's a lot of other questions I still need to answer that I forgot: If not Booty Bay Bodyguard, what should I use for those 5 slots? Its the only neutral 5 I've got with 5 attack. I have a few with 5 life, but the only one with more I have are Gurubashi Berserkets...and I just can't get them to work it seems like. Maybe Silver Hand Knight? Finally...I don't really see this as a "control" Paladin, to extend the metaphor it seems more midrange to me.

[Zevox]

Well, yes, this should definitely help. Some bad cards you should simply ditch:

Mogu'shan Warden - As you guessed. This guy is one of the worst in the game: one damage means he almost never kills anything, so all he does is delay a little. Not worth his cost at all.
Booty Bay Bodyguard - A 5/4 for 5 is weak, and a taunt minion with low health for his cost defeats the purpose of taunt. You want the taunting minion to be something your opponent will have some trouble killing, and compared to most things of his cost, this guy is not hard to kill at all.
Lord of the Arena - He's Booty Bay but at +1/+1 for +1 mana cost. Same reasoning applies.

Others you should likely remove:

Humility - This card is actually playable if you have Stampeding Kodo (a 5-mana minion who kills a random minion of your opponent's with 2 attack or less). If you don't have any of those, don't use this card. It's usually better to have minions, removal, or even a buff than a debuff that doesn't directly contribute to killing the target.
Ironfur Grizzly - These guys are average for their cost, so you might sometimes want them in a deck constricted to the basics, but even one of those has at least one better option for a 3-drop: Shattered Sun Cleric. And there are plenty of much better 3s that are commons, too. If you really don't have anything better though, keeping these guys is okay, just to have some okay 3-drops.
Cult Master - This guy is actually good in arena, but doesn't seem to perform so well in constructed play. Still not the worst thing in your deck by any means, but a good one to switch out.

An observation: you have a lot of 4-costs. Far too many, actually - fourteen in total, nearly half of your deck! And only ten cards in your deck cost less than that, which will make it harder than it should be for you to draw things you can actually play on turns 2 and 3 (though the Paladin's hero power does help with that, but you still want more early game than you have). Removing Mogu'shan and Cult Master will be a good start, but you're going to need to take out others, too, likely in favor of cheaper cards. The ones to definitely keep would be Truesilver Champion and Consecration, which are two of Paladin's best class cards, but beyond those, I'd give serious thought to which of the others you think are best to have. I'd not want more than eight of them total myself, I think, which is already a fairly high spike for a single cost slot.

Some cards to put into your deck:

Shattered Sun Cleric - The best basic 3-drop. Especially good in your case, since it could buff a Haunter Creeper or their tokens, or your hero power.
- If you have them, the best common 3s to use would be Harvest Golem, Earthen Ring Farseer, or Scarlet Crusader. And of course a second Aldor Peacekeeper would be great, but those are rare.
Boulderfist Ogre - The best basic late-game minion. Don't underestimate him just because he lacks a special effect, his good stats for the cost make him a solid card.
Frostwolf Warlord - As I mentioned earlier, this guy is good enough when you're stuck with mostly basic cards, you just need to accept that he'll usually only be a 5/5 or 6/6, and consider anything more a bonus.

[Lheticus]

Well, yes, this should definitely help. Some bad cards you should simply ditch:

Mogu'shan Warden - As you guessed. This guy is one of the worst in the game: one damage means he almost never kills anything, so all he does is delay a little. Not worth his cost at all.
Booty Bay Bodyguard - A 5/4 for 5 is weak, and a taunt minion with low health for his cost defeats the purpose of taunt. You want the taunting minion to be something your opponent will have some trouble killing, and compared to most things of his cost, this guy is not hard to kill at all.
Lord of the Arena - He's Booty Bay but at +1/+1 for +1 mana cost. Same reasoning applies.

Others you should likely remove:

Humility - This card is actually playable if you have Stampeding Kodo (a 5-mana minion who kills a random minion of your opponent's with 2 attack or less). If you don't have any of those, don't use this card. It's usually better to have minions, removal, or even a buff than a debuff that doesn't directly contribute to killing the target.
Ironfur Grizzly - These guys are average for their cost, so you might sometimes want them in a deck constricted to the basics, but even one of those has at least one better option for a 3-drop: Shattered Sun Cleric. And there are plenty of much better 3s that are commons, too. If you really don't have anything better though, keeping these guys is okay, just to have some okay 3-drops.
Cult Master - This guy is actually good in arena, but doesn't seem to perform so well in constructed play. Still not the worst thing in your deck by any means, but a good one to switch out.

An observation: you have a lot of 4-costs. Far too many, actually - fourteen in total, nearly half of your deck! And only ten cards in your deck cost less than that, which will make it harder than it should be for you to draw things you can actually play on turns 2 and 3 (though the Paladin's hero power does help with that, but you still want more early game than you have). Removing Mogu'shan and Cult Master will be a good start, but you're going to need to take out others, too, likely in favor of cheaper cards. The ones to definitely keep would be Truesilver Champion and Consecration, which are two of Paladin's best class cards, but beyond those, I'd give serious thought to which of the others you think are best to have. I'd not want more than eight of them total myself, I think, which is already a fairly high spike for a single cost slot.

Some cards to put into your deck:

Shattered Sun Cleric - The best basic 3-drop. Especially good in your case, since it could buff a Haunter Creeper or their tokens, or your hero power.
- If you have them, the best common 3s to use would be Harvest Golem, Earthen Ring Farseer, or Scarlet Crusader. And of course a second Aldor Peacekeeper would be great, but those are rare.
Boulderfist Ogre - The best basic late-game minion. Don't underestimate him just because he lacks a special effect, his good stats for the cost make him a solid card.
Frostwolf Warlord - As I mentioned earlier, this guy is good enough when you're stuck with mostly basic cards, you just need to accept that he'll usually only be a 5/5 or 6/6, and consider anything more a bonus.

Sadly, I don't have any of those three 3 drops you mentioned yet. I find it interesting that Aldor Peacekeeper is considered so much better than Humility just by virtue of the effect being attached to a creature. I still feel I need to keep it around just for now, because I've found that way too often my opponent will play something that is just idiotically hard to deal with without such an effect--examples include a regular minion with attack pumped idiotically and me without one of my silencer cards, (speaking of those, I realize there's a 2 drop owl but I don't have any--I don't know which is better but it doesn't matter for now because Spellbreaker is all I have) or some kind of huge badass thing, especially with taunt. Playing it like that may cost me a card and not remove directly, but it saves me cards in the long run because if I have stuff out, it will usually be able to take out the affected card without sacrifice, where that wouldn't be the case before. So yeah...Humility stays, for now.

[Melquiades]

Did a quick research for a budget Paladin deck. This one looks decent. I know you probably don't have Harvest Golem, Mad Bomber or Youthful Brewmaster, but you should focus on crafting at least the Harvest Golem since it is played in SO MANY decks. Ditch the Sunwalker for your Tyrion, and I think you have most of it. Researching decks from the internet is always good, in a few weeks you'll have enough dust to play something more similar to the top-tier decks if you focus on crafting cards for that. When thinking about cards to replace the ones you don't have, don't just go for what you think "the best cards" are or something like that: think about what the deck is trying to accomplish, what the strategy is. Hope it helps.

Edit: I would take out the 2x Blessing of Kings for a bit more of early game too.

[r2d2go]

Good common 5 drops, in approximate order of good, for your deck:

Silver Hand Knight
Venture Co Mercenary
Spiteful Smith
Frostwolf Warlord

Good rare 5 drops:

Azure Drake
Stampeding Kodo

Eh. That's probably too short for the list to be worthwhile. Oh well, there you go, those are all better than Booty Bay.

Edit:

Also, as said, Boulderfist is your go-to 6 drop, he's one of the better cards and you get him for free.

[TechnoWarforged]

Lheticus: There's a lot of different cards that I beat you haven't seen in Hearthstone :) Anyways I guess my suggestion for you is to watch Hearth Trolden. You'll learn some very interesting things about Hearthstone and also be very entertained at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Trolden1337


Speaking of Jaraxxus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xdDnbiN4oY

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd8furGiZNE from 1:08

Enjoy :)

Finally read up on Arena card value: http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/ar...eutral-commons

Basically you should understand some of the reasoning on why a card is good or bad and why it is so, and most of this stuff actually still applies outside of Arena. For example you'll never see footman or frostwolf grunt played anywhere and there's a reason why they are bad.

[Kish]

Hunters actually have some of the worst hard removal in the game, because of the randomness of Deadly Shot. Yes, it might kill Tirion through his Divine Shield (...triggering his Deathrattle). Or it might kill your 1/1 Reinforce token. Meanwhile, a mage could turn Tirion Fordring into a 1/1 sheep without his divine shield or his Deathrattle, a rogue could pick him out of seven targets on the field to be the one to die...

I find Gurubashi Berserkers a lot of fun, but I wouldn't put them in a paladin deck. Mage (because the mage can set off the ability by doing 1 damage to the berserker) or Priest (because the priest can heal the berserker whenever it takes damage), that's about it.

I remember playing against this one paladin, with my hunter deck, who didn't seem to realize that Humility wasn't actually hard removal. He played it on my hyena and...left the hyena there. A few turns later, the hyena was (of course) back up to 7 attack, so he played his other Humility on it and...left it there again.

Of course the match ended with that hyena eating him. I pictured the player scrunching up his/her face and going, "Didn't I kill that? Twice?"

[Rosstin]

Sigh, last day of the playing season. Oh, Rank 2... maybe next time.

[Zevox]

Good common 5 drops, in approximate order of good, for your deck:

Silver Hand Knight
Venture Co Mercenary
Spiteful Smith
Frostwolf Warlord

Good rare 5 drops:

Azure Drake
Stampeding Kodo

Eh. That's probably too short for the list to be worthwhile. Oh well, there you go, those are all better than Booty Bay.

Also, next week when the third wing of Naxxramas opens there will be another good one available there, the Spectral Knight. Probably better than any of the commons mentioned here at least.

[r2d2go]

Also, next week when the third wing of Naxxramas opens there will be another good one available there, the Spectral Knight. Probably better than any of the commons mentioned here at least.

Yep, fairy dragon's big brother.

Hunters actually have some of the worst hard removal in the game, because of the randomness of Deadly Shot. Yes, it might kill Tirion through his Divine Shield (...triggering his Deathrattle). Or it might kill your 1/1 Reinforce token. Meanwhile, a mage could turn Tirion Fordring into a 1/1 sheep without his divine shield or his Deathrattle, a rogue could pick him out of seven targets on the field to be the one to die...

Hunter removal is very efficient, though. You need to play around it or you'll get screwed - for example, Explosive Trap deals the same damage as Consecration, at half the mana. Deadly Shot kills a creature for 2 less than Assassinate. Multishot can be extremely efficient (two three drops downed by a Multishot is a terrible feeling). They also get strong early game options so they can gain control, allowing them to skew the odds in their favor. That's why Hunter doesn't utterly suck - they have the capability to make very efficient plays. Again, that's why you have to play around it.

[Forbiddenwar]

I remember playing against this one paladin, with my hunter deck, who didn't seem to realize that Humility wasn't actually hard removal. He played it on my hyena and...left the hyena there. A few turns later, the hyena was (of course) back up to 7 attack, so he played his other Humility on it and...left it there again.

Of course the match ended with that hyena eating him. I pictured the player scrunching up his/her face and going, "Didn't I kill that? Twice?"

This happened to me multiple times. On Frothing Beserkers, Gurubashi beserkers and once on my Ragnaros (which was then silenced bringing it back to an 8/8 and giving it attack.

I'm curious if Lheticus found or crafted Tiron. While Tiron is one of the better class legendaries, crafting a neutral legendary might allow for more viable class decks to be played and complete quests with.

It's a good find if you did. I sometimes regret dusting my gold tiron in order to craft rags.

[Mystic Muse]

Uuuuuuugh.

I friggin' hate Leeroy.

[Zevox]

Uuuuuuugh.

I friggin' hate Leeroy.

I know that feeling.

[Melquiades]

I know that feeling.

I don't hate Leeroy. I love Leeroy. I don't even care when I lose to Miracle Rogue (if he drew at least half of his deck, y'know).

I just hate stupid Handlocks running Leeroy + TWO Power Overwhelmings. It's bad, stupid, but sometimes it works and you miscalculate how much life you should have to avoid lethal. I've had that against me so-many-times.

[Zevox]

I don't hate Leeroy. I love Leeroy. I don't even care when I lose to Miracle Rogue (if he drew at least half of his deck, y'know).

Miracle Rogue is the deck that least bothers me if I lose to Leeroy. Because I know full well it's coming - it's the whole point of the deck, and it's pretty hard not to notice when an opponent is playing that deck.

It's other decks where I get irritated by losing to him. Handlock especially - I love a good control vs control match, so I like having a Handlock opponent, but I absolutely hate having the match end from nowhere despite my health being high due to Leeroy + Power Overwhelming + Faceless. Especially if I was winning the board control struggle.

Or when facing a Hunter and he whips out Leeroy + Unleash for lethal. I already hate Hunters, Unleash, and aggro in general, and Leeroy just compounds it all.

[Mystic Muse]

I lost to a shaman running it.

Leeroy + 2x Rockbite Weapon + Windfury + whatever that guy is that gives a minion +2 attack for a turn.