Mythos Homebrew Discussion II: Where Simplicity Goes to Die

[commander panda]

Each Manifestation seems like a completely different beast that does not connect with the base Mythos

the theme of the mythos is fighting dirty. each manifestation is meant to represent a different (and rather typical) form of fighting dishonourably.

The first Manifestation that staggers for [Str Mod] rounds. That's....absolutely ridiculous. You do realize that when Staggered, dealing even 1 point of damage makes them Unconscious? And then paradoxically, they get a weaker condition when they fail the save twice. What?

i actually wasn't aware of that until you brought it up yesterday. i though taking him to 1 nonlethal hit point was only the typical way of getting them staggered, not an actual characteristic of the status effect. its one of the things i plan to change. ah, just noticed your response to kymme. i'll work on making it more clear anyway.

The second Manifestation with Grappling.....has nothing to do with anything the Mythos seems to be dealing with. My biggest complain is lack of synchronicity. What story is this supposed to be?

ground and pound is phrase that comes from mixed martial arts. it basically means sitting on your opponent's chest and beating on them while they can't get away. its usually considered a dirty move in street fighting (akin to kicking someone when they're down)

The third Manifestation is extremely odd and requires more precise wording. E.g. what happens if they have eyes, but don't depend on them to see? Things like that.

fair enough. i'll fix that too.


EDIT:

For TWFing, balance. It is a balance concern for me because there isn't a whole lot stopping someone from having a mundane shortsword in one hand and a +5 longsword in the other and then dumping all their attacks together into one supah strike that'll make an ubercharger green with envy. Add on stuff like Thri Kreen or Garillion's Blessing and it just gets sillier and sillier.

good point.
what if i changed it so that you can wield two light weapons, or two hand a single larger weapon?

[JKTrickster]

The problem is that none of the Manifestations interact with the Base Mythos. What you have is "Deal extra damage" and "Oh you can do this too". There need to be a mechanical synchronicity as well as a thematic one. I could literally change the Base Mythos and it wouldn't affect the Manifestations at all. That's not good.


For the first Manifestation, just include the line:

"even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points"

for Staggered effect. That should take care of everything. I think this one is good.


For the second Manifestation - it needs to tie in with the rest of the Mythos. Right now its this completely other option that kind of exists in a vacuum.


For the third Manifestation - I forgot to ask. Do you need to use your hands? What if they're holding two weapons - do they use their feet? Even for the ranged option? (Just wondering if there are any limitations)

[commander panda]

The problem is that none of the Manifestations interact with the Base Mythos. What you have is "Deal extra damage" and "Oh you can do this too". There need to be a mechanical synchronicity as well as a thematic one. I could literally change the Base Mythos and it wouldn't affect the Manifestations at all. That's not good.

the tie in is meant to be that each manifestation enables the base to be used in that situation+an additional benefit befitting the technique used. not every mythos manifestation completely changes the main ability (marching fortress stamina, for instance.)

For the first Manifestation, just include the line:

"even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points"

for Staggered effect. That should take care of everything. I think this one is good.

yeah, that'll work. thanks

For the second Manifestation - it needs to tie in with the rest of the Mythos. Right now its this completely other option that kind of exists in a vacuum.

it ties in in the same way as the others. it allows you to not-really-sneak-attack your enemy while grappling. i suppose i could get rid of the dual wielding part and make that the advanced manifestation if that helps.

For the third Manifestation - I forgot to ask. Do you need to use your hands? What if they're holding two weapons - do they use their feet? Even for the ranged option? (Just wondering if there are any limitations)

it depends how you use it. the basic version is meant to be used by kicking mud at people. in the advanced version i think my intent (you're right that its a bit unclear) was that it increas the kicking range and let it be equipped as a weapon, but now i'm thinking i like it better if the whole advanced manifestation is dependent on throwing muck with your hands.


EDIT: actually, now that i come back and give this mythos a good read through after a couple of months, i'm kinda wondering why i thought i needed the advanced manifestations in the first pace. i mean i like DIRTIER fighting but the other ones seem unnecessary now . i think i might scrap them in the rewrite. not sure yet..

[JKTrickster]

Ah I see what you mean now.

No wonder you allow the second save to render them Flat Footed. Even though its such a weak condition after something like Staggered or Pinned.

Why not make it so that you can trigger Bonus Damage from additional conditions (depending on the Manifestation you take). That way you don't need any of that "second save makes you Flat Footed" or anything like that. Also it allows you to bypass Uncanny Dodge, or any other ability that prevents you from losing Dex to AC.

So for the first one, you can now trigger bonus damage on those with the Staggered condition. I believe that the ability is currently really too strong. Staggering someone for Strength Mod rounds, on a class that would love to pump Strength, is quite ridiculous from level one onward.

For the second one, just flat out allow the Bellator to deal bonus damage when the target is pinned.

For the third one, I just realized that its "within her reach". So....someone holding a reach weapon let's this work farther away? Is this intentional?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Well, now that the Episkeptis has been migrated and the fluff improved upon, it's time for the SUPER HAPPY FUN STUFF!

Spoiler: Stories of Heroes and Villains

Show

Some of the Episkeptis' Mythos are marked as [Guardian] or [Expression].

[Guardian] Mythos cause an actual, physical... thing to appear. Be it an armour clad warrior or a draconic monster. They are treated as Summoned creatures (As per the Summoning subschool), except that if they are "killed" they reform after 5 minutes, rather than 24 hours. The various [Guardian] Mythos allow you to "Craft" them to have them somewhat different roles.

These Mythos tell of the Heroes and Villains of the story. Mighty beings who have been given a form. Heroic knights of legendary prowess and frighting monsters with unknowable powers and such things.

[Expression] Mythos, however, are more "one-shot" abilities that call forth a VERY powerful attack against a large area. They take a serious toll on the Episkeptis, both physically and narratively.

These Mythos tell not of characters, but of powers. The heavenly light that smites a populace, the devastation of a mighty storm and the rage of a beast of flame.

The Episkeptis also possesses a small "pool" of points known as "Narrative Power". The Episkeptis' Narrative Power is equal to (1/2 the number of [Guardian] and [Expression] Mythos the Episkeptis possesses + his Charisma modifier).

Characters that possess [Guardian] or [Expression] Mythos, but do not have any actual Episkeptis levels, possess Narrative Power equal to 1/2 the number of [Guardian] and [Expression] Mythos they possess.

Narrative Power is formed entirely from the Episkeptis' OWN Living Narrative and is used to give the Stories he tells a "presence" in reality.


Narrative Power is used in two ways: Spending on Guardians or Burning on Expressions.

Spending Narrative Power: This is fairly simple. You spend Power, the Guardian appears and the Power is unavailable during this time. When the Guardian is killed or dismissed, the Power is returned to be used again.

Burning Narrative Power: Burning Power, on the other hand, is more complex. Expressions are far more powerful than Guardians, but they also REQUIRE more power in the first place. To do this, the Episkeptis uses his own Living Narrative as fuel, "burning" the pages of his own Story. Burned Power is also unavailable until it is recovered.

The Episkeptis does recover, after a while, but the time it takes varies from Expression to Expression and sometimes it can vary depending on how powerful the Episkeptis decides to make an Expression. Generally speaking, this recovery time can be between 1 Minute to 1 Day or even longer. However, if multiple points of Narrative Power are burned, only 1 point is recovered at a time. (So if he Burned 3 points with a Recovery time of 1 Hour, it would take 3 Hours to recover fully.)

Burning ANY amount of Narrative Power is tiring, causing the Episkeptis to become Fatigued. Burning a large amount of Narrative Power can be debilitating. If the Episkeptis Burns more than half his Narrative Power, he becomes permanently Exhausted until his Narrative Power recovers to above half.

So, thoughts?

[commander panda]

Why not make it so that you can trigger Bonus Damage from additional conditions (depending on the Manifestation you take). That way you don't need any of that "second save makes you Flat Footed" or anything like that. Also it allows you to bypass Uncanny Dodge, or any other ability that prevents you from losing Dex to AC.

eh. that seems more complicated than this needs to be. the way things are now, the mythos is fairly straight forward. as for uncanny dodge, i think i can let that one go. i don't want this to be 'sneak attack, but better' and if some rogue is good at dodging cheapshots, good for him.

So for the first one, you can now trigger bonus damage on those with the Staggered condition. I believe that the ability is currently really too strong. Staggering someone for Strength Mod rounds, on a class that would love to pump Strength, is quite ridiculous from level one onward.

hmmm yeah, that duration could get pretty crazy. what sounds beater than? int mod rounds or half strength mod rounds?

For the second one, just flat out allow the Bellator to deal bonus damage when the target is pinned.

i feel like if i did that, the manifestation would be less compelling to take. its right next to an ability that lets you sack people and an ability that lets you kick dirt in someone's face. by comparison an ability that adds a single line to the grappling rules seems really boring to take (unless you really like grappling.) allowing better weapons while grappling is at least more dramatic.

For the third one, I just realized that its "within her reach". So....someone holding a reach weapon let's this work farther away? Is this intentional?

this is strange. i know i made an efcort to address this when i originally wrot this mythos. why is it suddenly so vague .? i'll change it to "unarmed reach" in the rewrite.

[JKTrickster]

Hmmm just work out a draft first and we can see how it looks.

Does the first Manifestation factor in people who are not proficient with Unarmed Attacks? Do they still trigger an AoO and deal nonlethal damage?

[Kymme]

Well, now that the Episkeptis has been migrated and the fluff improved upon, it's time for the SUPER HAPPY FUN STUFF!

Spoiler: Stories of Heroes and Villains

Show

Some of the Episkeptis' Mythos are marked as [Guardian] or [Expression].

[Guardian] Mythos cause an actual, physical... thing to appear. Be it an armour clad warrior or a draconic monster. They are treated as Summoned creatures (As per the Summoning subschool), except that if they are "killed" they reform after 5 minutes, rather than 24 hours. The various [Guardian] Mythos allow you to "Craft" them to have them somewhat different roles.

These Mythos tell of the Heroes and Villains of the story. Mighty beings who have been given a form. Heroic knights of legendary prowess and frighting monsters with unknowable powers and such things.

[Expression] Mythos, however, are more "one-shot" abilities that call forth a VERY powerful attack against a large area. They take a serious toll on the Episkeptis, both physically and narratively.

These Mythos tell not of characters, but of powers. The heavenly light that smites a populace, the devastation of a mighty storm and the rage of a beast of flame.

The Episkeptis also possesses a small "pool" of points known as "Narrative Power". The Episkeptis' Narrative Power is equal to (1/2 the number of [Guardian] and [Expression] Mythos the Episkeptis possesses + his Charisma modifier).

Characters that possess [Guardian] or [Expression] Mythos, but do not have any actual Episkeptis levels, possess Narrative Power equal to 1/2 the number of [Guardian] and [Expression] Mythos they possess.

Narrative Power is formed entirely from the Episkeptis' OWN Living Narrative and is used to give the Stories he tells a "presence" in reality.


Narrative Power is used in two ways: Spending on Guardians or Burning on Expressions.

Spending Narrative Power: This is fairly simple. You spend Power, the Guardian appears and the Power is unavailable during this time. When the Guardian is killed or dismissed, the Power is returned to be used again.

Burning Narrative Power: Burning Power, on the other hand, is more complex. Expressions are far more powerful than Guardians, but they also REQUIRE more power in the first place. To do this, the Episkeptis uses his own Living Narrative as fuel, "burning" the pages of his own Story. Burned Power is also unavailable until it is recovered.

The Episkeptis does recover, after a while, but the time it takes varies from Expression to Expression and sometimes it can vary depending on how powerful the Episkeptis decides to make an Expression. Generally speaking, this recovery time can be between 1 Minute to 1 Day or even longer. However, if multiple points of Narrative Power are burned, only 1 point is recovered at a time. (So if he Burned 3 points with a Recovery time of 1 Hour, it would take 3 Hours to recover fully.)

Burning ANY amount of Narrative Power is tiring, causing the Episkeptis to become Fatigued. Burning a large amount of Narrative Power can be debilitating. If the Episkeptis Burns more than half his Narrative Power, he becomes permanently Exhausted until his Narrative Power recovers to above half.

So, thoughts?

I like it. Solid foundation, great tie-ins to the source material, and a good explanation of how the whole shindig works. My only question now is what these [Guardians] and [Expressions] look like on a mechanical basis.

[JKTrickster]

I like it. Solid foundation, great tie-ins to the source material, and a good explanation of how the whole shindig works. My only question now is what these [Guardians] and [Expressions] look like on a mechanical basis.

I agree - I like the fluff, but it's hard to have concrete thoughts without seeing a concrete class with numbers and abilities attached. Obviously I don't want to sound demanding, because the concept sounds amazing and I know classes take a lot of work and time. Still, it's hard to PEACH concepts.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I'm working on that as we speak, hell check the spoiler for the WiP that explains the basics of Guardians:

Spoiler: This is a WiP. BE WARNED

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Spoiler: Crafting Guardians, the Explanation

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The various "Summons" that the Episkeptis uses are known as Guardians.

Whenever you gain a [Guardian] Mythos, you are granted the ability to craft a Guardian, the main source of an Episkeptis; power.

While each Mythos grants a unique "effect" (Such as Healing or Physical Defence), they are all crafted in the same way. For this, we will use The Warrior as an example. First, each segment will be explained, then we will progress to build a "sample" Warrior.

The Warrior

Spoiler

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Base Statistics:

Shape: Humanoid; Size: Medium; Speed: 30ft; Attack: Longsword 1d8;

Hit Die: d10; BaB: Full

Base Stats:

Str: 15; Dex: 13; Con: 14; Int: 10; Wis: 12; Cha: 8

Class Level	Hit Dice	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Skill Points	Feats	Base Crafting Pool	Special
1st	1	+1	+2	+0	+2	4(x4)	1	3	ASDASD
2nd	2	+2	+3	+0	+3	8	1	4
3rd	3	+3	+3	+1	+3	12	2	5
4th	4	+4	+4	+1	+4	16	2	7
5th	5	+5	+4	+1	+4	20	2	8
6th	6	+6/+1	+5	+2	+5	24	3	9

Base Statistics: All crafted Summons have their Base Statistics already stated. This is unchangeable as it is inherent to the Guardian. In this example, The Warrior appears as a humanoid wielding a Longsword. (Although the Longsword can be changed via Crafting)

The size of the Hit Dice is also stated here (In this case, d10, as befitting a front line combatant), as is their BaB (Full, 3/4 or 1/2). This becomes important when increasing the Guardian beyond the Table.

Base Stats: Every Guardian has a "preset" ability layout. These ability score layouts are ALWAYS the Elite Array, arranged in the most "effective" order for the current template.

Class Level: Class Level refers to your own levels in Episkeptis, as you grow stronger, so does the Guardian as per the table. The Warrior's table only goes to level 6, at which point it no longer grows stronger by virtue of you levelling up. It can become more powerful than the table's limit, but that is for another time.

Hit Dice: The number of Hit Dice the Guardian possesses. In this case, The Warrior gains a HD every level. Some Mythos, Excellencies and the 18th level ability of Manifest the Warrior can add extra Hit Dice to Guardians. However (Except for some VERY special circumstances), the Hit Dice of a Guardian cannot exceed that of the Episkeptis.

BaB and Saves: BaB has been explained. Every Guardian has two good saves and one poor save. Unlike BaB, this needn't be stated, as it is fairly obvious which is what.

Skills: The Guardian gains Skill Points as an ordinary Character would (Including the bonus for their first Hit Dice, as noted by the "(x4)" notation). By default all Guardians have 4 Skill Points per Hit Dice, but can gain more for having a high Intelligence score. Some Guardians have more Skill Points inherently (Which will be mentioned in their entries), or they can gain more skill points via other methods.

For ease of writing the tables, Intelligence is not factored in.

Feats: Guardians are capable of acquiring Feats. This column simply tells you, at a glance, how many feats a particular Guardian is entitled to.

Base Crafting Points: The Base Crafting Points are a pool of points that the Episkeptis can use to Craft the Guardian, fine tuning it to a particular purpose. This is explicitly a BASE as you can get extra Craft Points from other sources.

Special: Abilities, unique powers, etc all go here.

That stuff there is ALL subject to change, but the short version is:

Guardians are basically Pathfinder's Eidolons. Each Guardian has its own unique abilities, both inherent and optional. You can tweak them somewhat, such as making The Warrior a PAing for full armour clad Knight, or a Dual Wielding, poison slinging Demon, but it is, inherently, still a Warrior.

Expressions are essentially AoE spells taken up to 11. Taken up to 11.

EDIT: You know what, I'mma do a very, VERY WIP for an Expression, to five you an idea.

Spoiler: Exceptional

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Rage of the Fire Beast
[Expression]

Select a spot within 100ft. All enemies within 40ft of that point take 1d6 points of Fire Damage per Episkeptis level, Reflex save for half damage.

Enemies that have taken damage continue to take half the damage dealt for 1d3+3 rounds. This damage cannot be mitigated via ordinary means (Such as pouring water over yourself)

Using this Mythos Burns one point of your Narrative Power. However, if you Burn more points, the various Dice upgrade by one step for every point you Burn. (d6 becomes d8, becomes d10, etc. d3 + 3 becomes d4 + 6, d4 + 6 becomes d6 + 9, etc.)

Additionally, for every extra point you burn, you may roll an extra dice.

The initial Burned point only takes one minute to recover, but any extra points Burned recover after one hour.

[commander panda]

Does the first Manifestation factor in people who are not proficient with Unarmed Attacks? Do they still trigger an AoO and deal nonlethal damage?

no. but it probably should. i'll think about it.

[7th son of sons]

I've got about Half of the (STILL!!!!) unnamed Author Anthol ready, still fishing for some Ideas. Especially for those... Sempiternal Mythos.... shudder shudder

[Omoikane13]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, so feel free to nix this if I'm stepping into the territory of others. Otherwise, I present the banner for the Archequin, Mythic Trickster!

Besides that, I'm looking forward to all these Mythos classes getting finished, and would be willing to post some tests if I can get it together.

[JennTora]

Well, Xefas is making a mythic rogue called an Ophidian, but it's more darkness themed apparently. It also hasn't been made yet so I say go for it and make your archequin. I look forward to seeing it.

[Primal Fury]

*snip*

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, so feel free to nix this if I'm stepping into the territory of others. Otherwise, I present the banner for the Archequin, Mythic Trickster!

Besides that, I'm looking forward to all these Mythos classes getting finished, and would be willing to post some tests if I can get it together.

Might I suggest using the Moon as the source of these Mythos? I've written quite a lot of fluff for her (more than any other narrative at least), and I think this would fit her much better than being a Dreamweaver.

[JennTora]

Might I suggest using the Moon as the source of these Mythos? I've written quite a lot of fluff for her (more than any other narrative at least), and I think this would fit her much better than being a Dreamweaver.

Was that the somnari? This doesn't mean you're stopping that one though, right? Cause the mythos really made me want to play someone who slept through all their fights and won.

[Primal Fury]

Was that the somnari? This doesn't mean you're stopping that one though, right? Cause the mythos really made me want to play someone who slept through all their fights and won.

Not exactly. While the Mythos were fun to make, I believe the Moon is better as a Trickster. The mechanics can still be used for something else though, as I still have all of them.

[Omoikane13]

Might I suggest using the Moon as the source of these Mythos? I've written quite a lot of fluff for her (more than any other narrative at least), and I think this would fit her much better than being a Dreamweaver.

Thank you very much, as this was one of the big things I was stuck on. I'd be happy to use the Moon, but must second the thought that I wouldn't want it to hurt the Somnari.

Well, Xefas is making a mythic rogue called an Ophidian, but it's more darkness themed apparently. It also hasn't been made yet so I say go for it and make your archequin. I look forward to seeing it.

Yeah, I'm gonna be careful not to step on the Ophidian's toes. It'll probably help that the Ophidian is more rogue-like, while the Archequin will cover an area of trickster-ness which encompasses the bard as well.

[Kymme]

*Guardians*

Guardians are basically Pathfinder's Eidolons. Each Guardian has its own unique abilities, both inherent and optional. You can tweak them somewhat, such as making The Warrior a PAing for full armour clad Knight, or a Dual Wielding, poison slinging Demon, but it is, inherently, still a Warrior.

Not half bad. I like what you have going here, but there are a few things I want to clarify. Namely, that they won't overshadow other dedicated PC fighters. They don't seem to have access to Mythos, so that doesn't seem like a huge problem, but still keep in mind how powerful you're making them. That was why the original Summoner was Tier 2, after all.

Rage of the Fire Beast

This, while impressive and strong, isn't that open-ended. If you're gonna be spending one of your Mythos known on this ability it ought to be worth every penny. Maybe give it some more... passive benefits? Like basic manifestations for getting fire resistance or a low damage flame ray or maybe a feat or two. Just something to give this Mythos more to do other than IMMA FIRIN MY LAZOR.

[Primal Fury]

Thank you very much, as this was one of the big things I was stuck on. I'd be happy to use the Moon, but must second the thought that I wouldn't want it to hurt the Somnari.

Excellent. Feel free to PM me if and/or when you need some fluff or someone to bounce ideas off of. I am quite eager to see what you have. And don't worry about the Somnari. Worst case scenario, I'll just change the fluff and make it fit a different narrative.

[Vauron]

Eh, I'm not so sure more would be needed. Compared with Overwhelming Dragon-Suspire, Rage of the Fire Beast doesn't seem that bad. ODS only does (half your hitdice)d8 in damage, although you can make an attack role instead of offering a reflex save and you can change what type of damage you do, along with a few small rider effects. At level 8, for instance, RotFB will deal 10 more damage on average if we assume you spend no additional Narrative Power.

'Narrow' Mythos also aren't unknown. Impudence-Rewarding Gesture, Fulminating Lightning Epiphany, and Inevitable Sunset Strike are all relatively narrow to my mind.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Not half bad. I like what you have going here, but there are a few things I want to clarify. Namely, that they won't overshadow other dedicated PC fighters. They don't seem to have access to Mythos, so that doesn't seem like a huge problem, but still keep in mind how powerful you're making them. That was why the original Summoner was Tier 2, after all.

Guardians do not have access to Mythos. Like, at all.

"Overshadowing" kinda depends on some things. Assuming mid-op, The Warrior isn't going to overshadow a Warblade or a dedicated PAing Barbarian and it certainly won't be overshadowing the Bellator. It will, however probably match or possibly outmatch an actual Fighter (The PC class). At least at low levels (Then again, if you're playing a Fighter when the Bellator is most likely available, you don't really have the right to complain). The Warrior IS capped at 6 Hit Dice, after all, and increasing Hit Dice above and beyond the Table is reserved for higher level Mythos and Excellencies.

Other Mythos can extend tables, granting new powers and abilities to earlier Mythos, however, such as upgrading The Warrior into The Soldier.

This, while impressive and strong, isn't that open-ended. If you're gonna be spending one of your Mythos known on this ability it ought to be worth every penny. Maybe give it some more... passive benefits? Like basic manifestations for getting fire resistance or a low damage flame ray or maybe a feat or two. Just something to give this Mythos more to do other than IMMA FIRIN MY LAZOR.

Hm. Like I said, that's so much a WiP, it's more of a concept with numbers attached. They WILL get other stuff, such as some defences or attacks. To be honest, having it grant Fire Resistance wasn't something that crossed my mind.

[Kymme]

Guardians do not have access to Mythos. Like, at all.

Wonderful! That's good to hear.

"Overshadowing" kinda depends on some things. Assuming mid-op, The Warrior isn't going to overshadow a Warblade or a dedicated PAing Barbarian and it certainly won't be overshadowing the Bellator. It will, however probably match or possibly outmatch an actual Fighter (The PC class). At least at low levels (Then again, if you're playing a Fighter when the Bellator is most likely available, you don't really have the right to complain). The Warrior IS capped at 6 Hit Dice, after all, and increasing Hit Dice above and beyond the Table is reserved for higher level Mythos and Excellencies.

Outmatching the tier 5 fighter is kind of a given, honestly. But in that case, carry on.

Other Mythos can extend tables, granting new powers and abilities to earlier Mythos, however, such as upgrading The Warrior into The Soldier.

Sounds awesome.

Hm. Like I said, that's so much a WiP, it's more of a concept with numbers attached. They WILL get other stuff, such as some defences or attacks. To be honest, having it grant Fire Resistance wasn't something that crossed my mind.

That's all well and good. I just thought I'd give my two cents while the class is in its infancy. I have Persona on the brain, and I was remembering how sometimes Personas with fire attacks also made you resistant to fire.

Just my thought process, though.

[Nanoblack]

Hm. Like I said, that's so much a WiP, it's more of a concept with numbers attached. They WILL get other stuff, such as some defences or attacks. To be honest, having it grant Fire Resistance wasn't something that crossed my mind.

Not that my opinion is worth much, but it seems like the expressions feel somewhat disconnected from the theme of the rest of the class. I understand that they aren't necessarily one trick ponies with summoning being their only talent, but there should probably be some sort of connection to the summons and the expressions. A few examples below:

For the fire expression, you could charge a summon with fire energy for a base amount of damage that ramps up over several turns before it detonates. As a side effect of the welling of energy, the summon could gain bonus fire damage to its attacks that increases with every round and forces it to attack every round.

If you were to do an ice expression, you could imbue a summon with ice that forces it to only utilize grapple checks in combat. Once it successfully grabs someone, it detonates and locks them both in solid ice for x number of rounds. Adjacent squares are entangled unless they succeed at a reflex save.

Additionally, I think the recharge time for the narrative points might be a little too lax. If you want them to seem like amazing acts of desperation, it should actually force the player to make a decision as to whether the cost outweighs the benefits.

Once again, just my opinion, take what you want and leave the rest.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Don't sell yourself shot, those aren't bad ideas (In fact, they're brilliant! They miiiight see use later. *Shifty eyes*), but they're not what Expressions are about. Expressons aren't just "Point at an area. That area is now ON FIRE!!!!", you still summon SOMETHING, it's just that what they do is far more... intense. But they cannot be sustained.

Perhaps this fluff might help explain:

In a time long past, in a kingdom now forgotten, people say, was a great beast. It's coming was like that of the sun, brightening the sky and scorching the land with it's passing. Armies were useless, magic was powerless and even devils from the hottest parts of hell burned to ash before it. What form it had none can say with any certainty. Some say it took the form of a wolf or lion. Others say it was shapeless, as flame is. But what they DO say for certain is that the Beast of Flame became angry.

The reasons for this are as varied as there are stars in the sky. One tale goes that a simple orphan boy tricked it into jumping into a nearby lake, hoping to quench the flames. Another says that a band of warriors of the King's guard provoked it and lured it into icy wastelands. While another says that a mighty Wizard tried to dominate the beast. All the stories say that each method appeared to be successful. At least at first. The lake began to boil into nothingness, the wasteland melted away and the Wizard lost control of it. And the Beast was angry. Very angry. And its rage was mighty, burning the Kingdom away. Leaving nothing but ash and cinders.

Whichever version of the tale you know, the rage of the Beast of Flame still resonates within you. Red hot anger flowing through your veins, waiting to be let out. With a few simple words, the Beast of Flame is made real. Its form, its anger and its insurmountable power. And it is all yours to command. But unleashing the Beast of Flame is not without cost, the story of the Beast, its fury, cannot be satisfied by simply "being".

As it burns your foes, so too it burns part of you, as fuel. Taking of your story, to make its rage real. No being can stand this for long, forcing you, in pain, to dismiss the Beast as quickly as your anger made it real.

[Kymme]

Don't sell yourself shot, those aren't bad ideas (In fact, they're brilliant! They miiiight see use later. *Shifty eyes*), but they're not what Expressions are about. Expressons aren't just "Point at an area. That area is now ON FIRE!!!!", you still summon SOMETHING, it's just that what they do is far more... intense. But they cannot be sustained.

Perhaps this fluff might help explain:

*wonder-fluff*

That's pretty sweet. No, not sweet. Amazin'. I can't wait to see more.

[Tanuki Tales]

So, I'm putting my GM hat for the first time in years IRL to be a player again and I was thinking of rolling a Termach. Do you guys have any advice on optimizing one of these?

The game will have 3 to 4 people (probably 3 more than 4) and will be one of the following adventure paths (the GM hasn't said which):

• Skull and Shackles
• Curse of the Crimson Throne
• Council of Thieves
• Kingmaker

[JKTrickster]

Hmm what level do you start at with those modules?

I think the Teramach is a pretty straight forward class. He has a lot of Mythos sure, but none of them are really subpar. Just choose the flavor of "RAGE. HATE. MURDER." that you want and go with that.

What advice are you looking for exactly?

[vasharanpaladin]

Think they're all level 1 start, Xefas played some of Kingmaker with a teramach...

Also, can we start a thing to have "accepted" mythos from others on the top page for each class? Just credit whoever actually wrote it, of course. Twin-Souled Berserker Fuselage Extrusion is something of an oddball, but doesn't really deserve to be buried, nor do any of Amechra's submissions nor my own Incarnadine Hell-Furnace Atrocity, if they're all of a state to be used with the rest...

[JKTrickster]

I think the issue is that Xefas would have to edit the posts in order to do that, no?

I tried clearing my edits to two of the Bellator's Mythos with him but got no reply. Not sure if he saw my PM yet.