Mythos Homebrew Discussion II: Where Simplicity Goes to Die

[Lanth Sor]

I've been b-lining through the archikos getting the basics done so I can flesh it out. End goal is to have a full build path for each element, energy type and fey mentality.

Edit: the archikos is now playable. Ill be adding more options and yes part of those options will include melee.

[qazzquimby]

Could people check the compendium to see if everything is being represented correctly, and all material is up? I think there's at least one google doc full of mythos missing, and the class descriptions are not very helpful right now.

[commander panda]

ok, so i think i'll call my last mythos done untill further notice, though if anyone wants to PEACH it along with this one, i'd be much obliged.

since i only got two conflictiong votes on the shield vs ranged mythos question, i'm going to start with the one i already had mostly formulated.

this one definitly neads to be PEACHed. i'll post some of my own questions in red as i go through it. i'm also working on manifestation names, if anyone wants to help with that.

Spoiler: Legendary

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Wave Breaking Barrier Defiance
Prerequisite: Guarding Vallation Style

Whenever the Bellator is wielding a shield of heavy weight or larger, and makes a reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she may substitute her dexterity modifier for her strength, and add her shield bonus to the save. If she succeeds on the reflex save the Bellator takes no damage from the attack, as if she possessed the Evasion class feature.
Whenever the Bellator blocks this manner of attack, she can use her shield to repel some of the danger away from herself and her allies, creating a zone of relative safety from harm; within this area, all creatures are considered to have passed their reflex save for half damage (even if they would normally be unable to attempt the save, for instance due to unconsciousness.) If the creatures the Bellator is defending actually do pass the save DC, regardless of help from the safe zone, they instead take no damage as if they had the Improved Evasion class feature.
The size and shape of this safe zone depends greatly upon the attack the Bellator is warding off. If the attack is a cone or spherical in shape, the safe zone will be cone shaped, and if the attack takes the form of a cylinder, the safe zone is a line. If the attack is a line, it simply stops at the Bellator. The length of the safe zone is always the length of the initial attack, and always leads away from it's point of origin, starting at the Bellator's occupied squares.
The Bellator now also adds her shield bonus to her touch AC.

Basic Manifestations
Retributive Tidal Rush
Prerequisite:-
If the Bellator successfully avoids damage from an AoE attack using her shield, and the adversary who launched the attack is within half her base move distance, she may spend her move action for the next round as an immediate action to rush at her opponent and push some of the attack back at him.
When the Bellator attempts a maneuver like this, she completely forgoes the creation of her safe zone for the round (meaning the area attack will proceed as normal and effect her allies, regardless of her success. She still maintains her own her own defences, though.) As the Bellator moves she invokes attacks of opportunity as normal from everyone but the subject of her attack. At the end of her movement the Bellator makes a bash attack with her shield. If it hits, the area attack the Bellator just blocked is is expanded to include her target, and he must make his own reflex save (using the bellator's DC) against the attack.

Ocean Polished Mirror Defence
Prerequisite:-
The Bellator may reflect ranged touch attacks that failed to overcome her Armor Class a number of times per round equal to the higher of her Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers. To reflect the attack, the Bellator may either take her opponent's attack roll or make an attack roll of her own, using her opponent's attack bonus. This attack may target any creature the Bellator wishes, recalculating maximum range as if the Bellator were the attacks point of origin.

Beware The Traveling Bastion
Prerequisite: Weakling-Saving Gallantry manifestation of Guarding Vallation Style mythos
The range of the Bellator's Constant Guardian feat is extended by a further 5 ft and the benefits of the Dutiful Guardian feat now apply if the beneficiary is facing an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful reflex save.
If the feat's beneficiary is unable to legally occupy the Bellators's previous square, he is simply pushed back five feet from the spell's point of origin so the Bellator can occupy the old space. if that is also impossible, the Bellator simply occupies the same square as her beneficiary.

[Bluydee]

You know, I'm interested in making an entire mythos class devoted in heroism and justice. Mostly, the ideas I'm thinking of are the class having a comeback system, where, when things look bleak, he can use abilities akin to many things, such as the anime tropes of newfound power, the new technique, and the speech of friendship where, inspired by the words of their ally, they get stronger and defeat their enemy. (last one is gurren lagann spoilers).

[Tempestfury]

Just going to leave this two updated Mythos here...

Spoiler: Zeninth of the Nine Arts

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Zenith of the Nine Arts
[Exalted]
Requirements: The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep

The Bellator’s understanding of the Disciples of the Sublime Way has reached its peak, rivalling even the legendary Reshar in his ability to use the powers of the Sublime Way... and perhaps you might grow to become even stronger.

You gain the seventh level maneuvers and stances of each disciple that you have taken with ‘‘The [Discipline]’s Stem Flourishes’. Once per turn you may now use an additional strike or boost whenever you would use a strike or boost, and may may an additional strike or boost for each 5 levels above the level 20. Additionally, you may use a counter as a free action, up to the amount of additional strikes or boosts you can make.

Finally, the effects of The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep applies to all disciplines that have taken up to The [Discipline]’s Stem Flourishes, and the Passive Strike can now be selected from any second level strike. If you gain the ability to use eighth or higher level strikes, then the highest level of maneuvers that the Passive Strike may use increases to the highest level of maneuvers you can make -5.

Basic

Mastery of the Basics - You may now use a boost in place of a strike for your Passive Strike ability. Additionally, you may use an additional strike or boost with your Passive Strike, up to the number of half the additional strikes or boosts granted by this Mythos, rounded up.

Opportunity Exploitation - Whenever you make an attack of opportunity, you make use a 4th level strike instead of a normal attack. If you gain the ability to use eight or higher level strikes, you may instead using a strike of your highest level maneuvers -3.

Sublime Combat Fusion - Whenever you use a martial strike, you may make a free feint, trip, disarm, sunder or bull rush attempt before or after the strike. If you have the ability to make a free check after hitting an enemy, you instead gain a bonus to the check equal to your Bellator level/2.

Advanced

The Sublime Way - You may now use all eight and ninth level stances and maneuvers instead of only seventh level maneuvers and stances granted by this mythos.

Spoiler: Blazing Thunder Style

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Blazing Thunder Style
[Exceptional]

You gain Gunsmithing as a bonus feat.

Additionally, you gain a battered firearm of your choice. Similarly to the Gunslinger’s firearm. Everyone else treats the firearm as being broken, and if already broken they cannot use it at all. However, unlike the Gunslinger’s firearm, you may fix the gun, removing the battered condition at level six.

When wielding a firearm and attacking an enemy within penetration range, you may add your dexterity modifier to the damage rolls. Whenever a firearm misfires and gains the broken condition, you may spend a standard action to fix it.

Basic
Staining the Air Black - You gain the Rapid Reload feat for free, at level 6, you may double the effect of Rapid Reload. Whenever you fire a firearm more than once a round against an enemy within penetration range, you may fire an extra shot at that enemy.

One Shot, One Kill - The range of your firearm is doubled, and its base damage is increased as if it was one size larger. Whenever you manage to fell an enemy in a single shot, you may reload your firearm as a free action.

Advanced
Calculation Aiming - Instead of Dexterity, you may use your Intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls using firearms.

Flashy Double Firing - You gain Two-Weapon Fighting for free, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites. You can treat Pistols as a light-weapon whenever beneficial.

Supreme Penetration - Whenever you attack an enemy within penetration range, you may ignore an amount of DR equal to your Dexterity modifier If you have the Calculation Aiming mythos, you may instead use your Intelligence modifier

And a new mythos... and yes. I love the Bellator.

Spoiler: Martial Adept Excellency

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The [Disciples] Seeds Stretch Far
[Excellency]
Prerequisite: The ‘[Discipline] Seed Awakening’ mythos, and either the ‘Arching Comet Style’ mythos or the ‘Blazing Thunder Style’ mythos.

When using a weapon that the Style Mythos applies to, you made treat it as a melee weapon for the purposes of martial maneuvers, as long as any attacks you make are within the first range increment of the weapon.

[Allnightmask]

I kind of like the new mythos, but the advanced manifestation "The Sublime Way" feels way too ridiculous. A sudden spike in power, even though the first discipline seed mythos sets a precedent for breaking that up. I think we should rebuild that. In similitude of the first tier.

[Tempestfury]

Heh, possibly. I still don't feel that having to spend exp on this final manifestation really fits...

[The_Final_Stand]

I agree with Allnightmask. 9th maneuvers for each Discipline seems... too much, even for an Exalted Mythos.

Also, as written, it grants 7th level maneuvers when the relevant disciplines may not even have the 6th level ones (those are granted with the Knowledge Sprouts with Branches and Perfect Violence Blossoms manifestations of [Discipline's] Stem Flourishes), so I'd recommend limiting the effects to those [Discipline]s that you have "Perfect Violence Blossoms" with.

[Tempestfury]

... Okay yes there is that possibility. But come-on. If you've gone THAT far in the Discipline chain, your going to grab the sixth level ones as well. If I really, really have to. Yes, I will add that as a prerequisite, but I'm not entirely sure its a problem... as for the Sublime Way granting 9th level maneuvers? Well, so? Your Exalted, Level's 19-20, your amazingly powerful, and the 9th level maneuvers will show that exceedingly well. If people REALLY think I need to... then yes, I will split it into two Advanced Manifestations for ecah level.

[commander panda]

i'm liking all the bellator mythos, tempest . one thing though: steel avalanche style kind of renders flashy double firing redundant.

also, does really no one want to comment on the belletor's new AoE-shield-tanking-mythos, and anger/fear mythos?

[Tempestfury]

i'm liking all the bellator mythos, tempest . one thing though: steel avalanche style kind of renders flashy double firing redundant.

also, does really no one want to comment on the belletor's, AoE-shield-tanking-mythos and anger/fear mythos?

The entire point though, is that flashy double firing means that you don't need to take steel avalanche style, without giving you the full TWFing feat-chain. You don't need to take two style mythos to get what you want.

... I missed them, sorry.

[commander panda]

The entire point though, is that flashy double firing means that you don't need to take steel avalanche style, without giving you the full TWFing feat-chain. You don't need to take two style mythos to get what you want.

fair enough. i suppose SAS still does it better anyway, if people want to go the extra mile for fancy trick shots.

... I missed them, sorry.

don't worry, the question wasn't aimed expicitly at you. i was kind of curious if people had just missed them, though.

[ThreadNecro5]

iv just about finished writing excellency's for the Kreikiri but cant think of a name for this one:

(name)
Perquisites:-
You gain graft flesh as a bonus feat with the addition that you may ignore racial perquisites. You may also spend mythos points as well as GP, in a 1-to-1 ratio and in any combination when using the feat.

You may take this Excellency mutable times, choosing a new category of grafts each time.

anyone have any ideas?

[7th son of sons]

iv just about finished writing excellency's for the Kreikiri but cant think of a name for this one:

(name)
Perquisites:-
You gain graft flesh as a bonus feat with the addition that you may ignore racial perquisites. You may also spend mythos points as well as GP, in a 1-to-1 ratio and in any combination when using the feat.

You may take this Excellency mutable times, choosing a new category of grafts each time.

anyone have any ideas?

Flesh-Warping Lineage Exhonoration, OR, Abominable Sewn-Flesh Displayment

[Sgt. Cookie]

Idea occurred. Images gathered. Name decided.

Spoiler: Hi, hi! The more important it is to others, the more it's worth to steal. It's great watching dithered faces!

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The Epithymia

"This Thief is the absolute best there is. He is faceless, he could be anyone. No one has ever gotten a fingerprint, a footprint, not even a whiff of him. Even the Keepers are oblivious to him. He carries out his work with meticulous detail, leaves no evidence at all that he was there. He has quite a large self image but cares nothing about gaining a reputation. In fact, he wants to remain anonymous. But at the same time, he enters a mission with a heightened sense of paranoia. Nothing can go wrong, he will settle for no error or slip ups in his execution of the job. He is a Paranoid Perfectionist while working, nothing out of place or amiss when he is finished. Not even the Allusion of a Thought in anyone's mind that he was there. He is also discriminating. Some missions he might not take because he might leave a trail, clue or hint of something. People are wondering how these things happen or get stolen and who is doing it and how. But no one knows anything or has a clue."

In the time of the Gods of Law, The Sun rose and birthed the first day. The Sun reigned, unchallenged, as the Stars appeared. The first, lost to time, passed by. The second, Harmony, created all the Gods. The third, Erudition, became knowledge itself. And the fourth, End, brought the first night. Revealed the Moon and brought darkness to existence. But in that darkness, there was... something. It was not a star, called by the light of the sun. It was not a God of Law, unseen and unheard. It was anguish, loss. Its birth-scream one of longing, of grief.

Of Desire.

The loss of the Sun caused a thought to appear. It was, at first, meaningless. Barely more than an incoherent whisper with nothing but darkness and the Moon. But the darkness soon coalesced around that thought, amplifying it, adding a voice. The whisper grow louder, more comprehensible until the darkness could contain it no longer. Its anguished sound shocking the thought into self awareness, at first, and then horror soon after. "I want the Sun!" it cried, but as soon as Desire made his demand, he realised what he had done. He had given an order to the Sun.

Before it could respond, Desire fled. He ran and hid and hoped he was beyond the Sun's reach. On the Second day, the Sun rose and heard Desire's demand, but found only an echo of grief. Oblivious to the thing it had unwittingly created. It spent the second day existing. It's brilliance brightening the sky. But the bodiless demand unsettled him. And so on the second night, he told the stars to wait. To be a beacon when the Sun could not. But their light was weak. No matter how brightly they shone or how many was among their number, darkness still reigned supreme.

But for Desire, it was a gift beyond measure. His demand of the Sun made him wary. When darkness fell, he was started at the sky, but was soon calm. The light was not the Sun, it was something... else. Desire did not know what they were, only that he wanted them. And so he left his hiding place and went to the stars he saw. They were not the Sun, no, they were lesser beings. But they still held a light and Desire very much wanted light. So he stole some Stars. He stole and stole and stole until the Sun approached and Desire returned to his secret place.

When the Sun arrived, fully, he saw that some Stars were gone and he did not know where. The Sun questioned the Moon, but she saw nothing. He questioned the rest of the stars, all of them, but none saw anything. Their brethren were there but then they were not. Desire, in his hiding place, looked upon "his" stars. But he found them lacking. Individually, they were nothing but together, they were brighter. Much, much brighter. But together, they still paled in comparison to the Sun. But he wanted more, ever more, until he had a light as bright as the Sun. And so he waited, until night fell once more and he could, unseen and unknown, take the Stars to create for himself a knew sun. All his own.

And such is his Legacy, The Epithymia. They walk the earth, coveting all they see. Wealth, gold, jewels, they take it all. But they are not without allies. Darkness, anonymity and stealth. They take and steal and want, with only what has been lost proving that they exist at all.

Before you ask, no. I've not stopped working on the Episkeptis.

[Tempestfury]

So two questions... One, does this take inspiration from the Exatled mythos at all? And two, what do people think to the idea of a Zen-Monk idea? I get that the Kathados is a bit monkish, but its focuesed more on elements than the traditinol monk...

[Bluydee]

Anyone have ideas for fictional heroes, as in the example what they should be, refusing to back down and protect those they care about? I need 3 more to finish my banner.

[Temotei]

Anyone have ideas for fictional heroes, as in the example what they should be, refusing to back down and protect those they care about? I need 3 more to finish my banner.

Natsu Dragneel from Fairy Tail might do.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I come bearing gifts of Epithymia Mythos!

Spoiler: Exceptional

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Sun Escaping Shadow Walk

Before the age of creation, the Sun shone eternal. Brightening almost every corner. Almost, being Desire's greatest ally. In his paranoia, Desire sought all those places were the Rebel Dawn did not touch and learned to move from shadow to shadow, under the light of the sun.

You gain Darkstalker (LoM) and Lightfeet (RotW) as Bonus Feats. You also gain the Slipping Past and Shrouded Dance Skilltricks. These bonus skill tricks do not take up a slot additionally you may use these Skill Tricks at will, rather than once per encounter.

Traversing The Paths Unknown

You gain Roofwalker as a Bonus Feat.

Basic:

Urban Pathway Epiphany: You gain Agile Athlete (RotW) and Leap of the Heavens (PhB2) as Bonus Feats.

Clamber upon statues: You gain Steady Mountaineer (RoS) as a Bonus Feat. You also gain the Extreme Leap, Speedy Ascent and Leaping Climber skilltricks as Bonus Skilltricks.

[Bluydee]

I had the brilliant idea, and here is what I am thinking of:

Spoiler: Mythos

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The Kalthorros
"I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!" -Goku

When Titans walked the earth and the Sun was birthed from the dark, death and destruction strode, bringing doom to all. Disaster plagued the land. Monsters roamed, shaking the world with each mighty step. Many a person rose, lauding over others with their power, only to be defeated and shamed by yet another. It was an endless cycle, a dragon chasing its tail to the ends of time. Mind-numbing despair haunted the victims, following each on every step, the subjects of a neverending torment of famine and poverty. And as those petty emperors and mortal gods blinded them with their boundless arrogance and tyranny, a seed of hope was planted.

Among the men and women who walked the earth, there was one who saw this cycle as injustice, who refused to prostrate themselves to those who have no right to power and strength. Who dared to stand up and say no. The Hero was the one who saw the world as it was, as corruption and hatred, and believed, believed that he could save it, believed he could force the jaws of the world open and prevent it from consuming itself.

It is said that they were human in the most known rendition of the tale. Others among their own culture believe they were an elf, a dwarf, or, as even the most barbaric civilizations think, an orc. Whatever the case, they are long dead. But they live on, for every so often, someone sees injustice happen and refuse to let it stand, from a human who saw his parents die, to the dragon who's child is captured. They are known as the Kalthorros.

[Tempestfury]

Okay, that is an awesome opening... now what will define them?

[Kymme]

Zenith of the Nine Arts

I feel like this should just let you use an additional Strike or Boost 1/round as a free action, rather than doubling-up boosts and strikes. You could then have the 1/round thing scale up with levels.

While I appreciate you using the Passive Strike mechanic, I feel that you may be over-doing it a little bit. Having higher level strikes as your passive was never really my intention to begin with. I mean, if every attack you make is an Emerald Razor or Insightful Strike, it kind of makes a lot of lower level feat-based fighting styles completely wasted. So, instead of increasing the level of your Passive Strike, why not allow a Bellator to have multiple Passive Strikes at one time? The number can start at 2, then scale with levels.

I'm not quite sure how Mastery of the Basics is supposed to work. Does it let you always be effected by a Boost? If so, that's a little overkill, especially with your ability to spam all the maneuvers you know at any given time. Opportunity Exploitation is interesting, but could do with more clarification on how the scaling works. In fact, all your wording about scaling could do with some clarification. There is so such thing as 10th level maneuvers, so there ought to be some kind of mention in there about a cap.

I really dig Sublime Combat Fusion - it's really how I'd imagine a master of war to fight. I assume the second sentence is meant to work with Improved Trip and the like?

Blazing Thunder Style

I like this mythos, but you made some references to a rule I am not familiar with. What is penetration range? I assume it refers to Pathfinder firearm's ability to make touch attacks within their first range increment. You ought to call out that this mythos makes use of the firearms rules in Pathfinder, rather than the ones in the 3.5 DMG.

The [Disciples] Seeds Stretch Far

Me. Gusta. This is what the Maneuver-User Bellator was in desperate need of.

Immovable Object Resolution

I assume you mean the shield's shield bonus/enhancement bonus, as shields do not provide an armor bonus to AC. If so, then this feature seems perfectly reasonable.

Also, the 'safe-zone' function: does this mean that creatures in the safe zone effectively have Improved Evasion? Seems reasonable.

Basic Manifestations

These seem alright to me, but they're a little unclear.

[commander panda]

I assume you mean the shield's shield bonus/enhancement bonus, as shields do not provide an armor bonus to AC. If so, then this feature seems perfectly reasonable.

correct. thanks for the catch.

Also, the 'safe-zone' function: does this mean that creatures in the safe zone effectively have Improved Evasion? Seems reasonable.

not quite. the way it currently works is that they just auto succeed on the reflex save. that said, i had seriously considered boosting it to something like improved evasion. do you think that would be more of a fantastic, or legendary ability?

These seem alright to me, but they're a little unclear.

do you mind elaborating?

[Adam1949]

I had the brilliant idea, and here is what I am thinking of:

-snip-

Personally, I think you should swap out a few of the iconics with other characters. There are just too many from Japanese media; it would be my suggestion to get a more well-rounded, all-encompassing banner for any Mythos class.

[Bluydee]

I couldn't really find many hot-blooded heros out of japan, so I'd appreciate any suggestions.

[vasharanpaladin]

I couldn't really find many hot-blooded heros out of japan, so I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Herakles, Leonidas, Kratos, Thor, Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner.

[ThreadNecro5]

Flesh-Warping Lineage Exhonoration, OR, Abominable Sewn-Flesh Displayment

nice, Il use that second one, and looking up the definition of the last word in the first name suggestion has inspired an excellency in and of itself that allows graft to be passed genetically.

also is it just me or is every other name of a Kreikiri-related anything got the word flesh in it?

also (again), on an unrelated note to the above that i'm just thinking out loud, as a thought yesterday I was starting to question may sanity while working on the Kreikiri after realizing I've unintentionally created a class with a half envisioned mythos that will (with sufficient time,effort, good dice roles, and raw material) allow you to turn the campaign setting into that of either 'Gyo' or 'Attack on Titan'. Or both at the same time. With he possibility of adding dead space to the mix. I don't know weather this is a good or bad thing, only that is an awesome thing .

Given how the class tiers measurement are based partly on how a class can change the world (as I recall anyway) I may have created tier zero (this last part is meant as a joke, clarifying due to how tone is unavailable).

-edit-
honestly I look at one name, decide its cool for an excellency and now it takes up two pages of a word document, well that homebrew for you isn't it

[Kymme]

correct. thanks for the catch.

No problem. I'm always happy to help!

not quite. the way it currently works is that they just auto succeed on the reflex save. that said, i had seriously considered boosting it to something like improved evasion. do you think that would be more of a fantastic, or legendary ability?

I think that giving multiple people in an AoE improved evasion would totally be worth a Legendary Mythos. Considering most classes gain it around tenth level, gaining an AoE version of it seems appropriate for 13th level.

do you mind elaborating?

Sure!

Retributive Tidal Rush

So, this pretty much gives the Bellator an immediate action interrupt whenever someone would use an AoE on her allies? If so, the reflection seems a little bit overkill. Why not just have the adversary make a Concentration check (DC based off the damage the Bellator's attack dealt) to avoid having their ability interrupted?

Ocean-Polished Mirror Defense

Why not try changing the wording to this: 'The Bellator may reflect ranged touch attacks that failed to overcome her Armor Class a number of times per round equal to the higher of her Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers. To reflect the attack, the Bellator may either take her opponent's attack roll or make an attack roll of her own, using her opponent's attack bonus. This attack may target any creature the Bellator wishes, recalculating maximum range as if the Bellator were the attacks point of origin.' I think that clears this manifestation up nicely.

Beware The Traveling Bastion

I don't think this effect is necessary. Remember, the Dutiful Guardian feat already lets you do this. Maybe this manifestation could expand the range of Constant Guardian, or let you do a kind of Combat Expertise thing, but apply it to allies within the range of Constant Guardian?

[commander panda]

I think that giving multiple people in an AoE improved evasion would totally be worth a Legendary Mythos. Considering most classes gain it around tenth level, gaining an AoE version of it seems appropriate for 13th level.

fair enough. i think i'll make this legendary after all.

So, this pretty much gives the Bellator an immediate action interrupt whenever someone would use an AoE on her allies? If so, the reflection seems a little bit overkill. Why not just have the adversary make a Concentration check (DC based off the damage the Bellator's attack dealt) to avoid having their ability interrupted?

thats not exactly how it works. it lets the bellator spend her next move action early, to move/throw back the attack instead of activating her safe zone. it's not intended to activate off of her allies, but as it is currently worded this and the traveling bastion would end up meshing ridiculously well. i'll fix that. also, it doesn't interrupt the attack; everything is still on fire. the difference is that now everything includes Mr.Lich McWizard.

do you mind pointing out exactly what gave you this impression so i can correct it?

Why not try changing the wording to this: 'The Bellator may reflect ranged touch attacks that failed to overcome her Armor Class a number of times per round equal to the higher of her Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers. To reflect the attack, the Bellator may either take her opponent's attack roll or make an attack roll of her own, using her opponent's attack bonus. This attack may target any creature the Bellator wishes, recalculating maximum range as if the Bellator were the attacks point of origin.' I think that clears this manifestation up nicely.

thanks for this . its a bit more powerful than the old version, but then the old version was intended for fantastic tier. this works perfectly.

don't think this effect is necessary. Remember, the Dutiful Guardian feat already lets you do this. Maybe this manifestation could expand the range of Constant Guardian, or let you do a kind of Combat Expertise thing, but apply it to allies within the range of Constant Guardian?

i actually wasn't aware of this feat. unfortunately, the point isn't really to improve your allies AC, it's to let you jump in the way and activate a safe zone, basically 'taking a bullet' for them. that said, i could definitely make it less confusing sounding by basing it off of DG. bear in mind again though, that this isn't necessarily meant to mesh with retributive tidal rush.

[Tempestfury]

I feel like this should just let you use an additional Strike or Boost 1/round as a free action, rather than doubling-up boosts and strikes. You could then have the 1/round thing scale up with levels.

Why can't they double-up on boosts or strikes instead of using an additional strike and boost? Admittedly the doubling up would be stronger than the additional strike or boost. But doubling up is the capstone of the ToB base-classes. Save Crusader, as it doesn't have one. But I digress, if ToB double's up. Shouldn't the Bellator as the Zenith, be able to double up, but better?

While I appreciate you using the Passive Strike mechanic, I feel that you may be over-doing it a little bit. Having higher level strikes as your passive was never really my intention to begin with. I mean, if every attack you make is an Emerald Razor or Insightful Strike, it kind of makes a lot of lower level feat-based fighting styles completely wasted. So, instead of increasing the level of your Passive Strike, why not allow a Bellator to have multiple Passive Strikes at one time? The number can start at 2, then scale with levels.

I know the intention was not to have the passive strike allow higher-level mechanics, but I figured as the passive strike at level one was a Legendary Ability, so it made perfect sense to me to have the Exalted Ability allow you to take higher level strikes. Maybe I could reduce change it so your limit to level 2 only if your that scared. But I think making every attack an Emerald Razor or Insightful Strike won't make negate the 'lower level feat-based fighting styles', only enhance them. Hell at this level, Insightful Strike would be a nerf.

Having the level of Passive Strike increases seems to be a more natural progression to me, and increasing the number of active passive strikes in one of the basic manifestations already. So if I do change it to your suggestion, I'll have to think of a way to upgrade Mastery of the Basics in some way.

I'm not quite sure how Mastery of the Basics is supposed to work. Does it let you always be effected by a Boost? If so, that's a little overkill, especially with your ability to spam all the maneuvers you know at any given time.

Overkill? No its not. Letting your strikes be affected by a low-level boost instead of a low-level strike, is not overkill. It simply allows you to have more flexibility in what you can apply as a boost, as well as giving you a second strike/boost to add to the attacks.

Opportunity Exploitation is interesting, but could do with more clarification on how the scaling works. In fact, all your wording about scaling could do with some clarification. There is no such thing as 10th level maneuvers, so there ought to be some kind of mention in there about a cap.

... The scaling is fine. If you have 8th level maneuvers, you can use a 5th level strike. Because 8-3 = five. Also, I know there is no such thing as 10th level maneuvers (though, wouldn't Epic Maneuvers count?), but I'm not putting in a cap to allow for flexibility for homebrew in case someone decides to make 10th level maneuvers.

I really dig Sublime Combat Fusion - it's really how I'd imagine a master of war to fight. I assume the second sentence is meant to work with Improved Trip and the like?

Actually, its meant to work with abilities like Knock-Down. You know, hit the enemy, get a free trip attempt, etc?

Also. Kymme. What do you think to the Advanced Manifestation granting you both level 8 and level 9 maneuvers? Is that too much? Should I split it into two and make you pay to get the level 9 maneuvers, or should I limit it to level 8 only?

I like this mythos, but you made some references to a rule I am not familiar with. What is penetration range? I assume it refers to Pathfinder firearm's ability to make touch attacks within their first range increment. You ought to call out that this mythos makes use of the firearms rules in Pathfinder, rather than the ones in the 3.5 DMG.

... I'm already referencing the Gunslinger. 3.5 doesn't have a Gunslinger. Its pretty darn obvious. Same with the Gunsmithing Feat.