Mythos Homebrew Discussion II: Where Simplicity Goes to Die

[Vauron]

Than could you at least include some fluff with the mythos? Using elemental terms isn't forbidden with Bellator mythos, but do something with it to make it something other than a Kathados mythos with the wrong class name appended to it. 'Studying the elements and using what you learned to increase your capacity in and out of combat' is also what Kathados do.

[Tempestfury]

... I'll add the fluff AFTER I've sorted out the mechanics a bit more. And NO. The Kathods don't just study the elements and use what they've learned to fight better. They study the elements and use what they've learned to fight better by USING the elements themselves! This is just like how the Bellator can learn the Tiger Claw discipline by watching a tiger hunting! (Which is a actual mythos fluff, not a fan-made one)

[Vauron]

I suppose we have different interpretations of Elemental-Fisted Pugilist Style. Regardless, I'll drop it.

[Tempestfury]

... It says in the mythos itself, that your using the power of the elements (interally) to increase your unarmed powers.

[ThreadNecro5]

The Occasus fears death and pain and isolation, so they do everything in their power to promote life and safety, even if that means stitching together your friends in both body and soul, grafting armor to their body so it can never be lost or stolen, and surrounding themselves with friends and subdued foes turned friends... which may not be conscious because they are the building blocks of your life palace.

the Kreikiri approves of this.

on a more serious note I really like the concept you have going on here nice spin on the forceful robot-conversion idea.

have you by any chance seen the 1999 movie 'Virus', may be worth a look for inspiration on a darker or more grotesque concept for an Occasus if you think of it from the Occasus's motivations.

on a related note with that movie it now has to become a campaign featuring a team-up between an Occasuis and a 'benevolent' Kreikiri on a quest to unite a world in peace and unity. with body horror. ALL the body horror.

Main mechanic is Mania, which is a number that represents the degradation of their sanity in their pursuits by choosing Manic mythos or using neutral Mythos in Manic ways. For example, the armor grafting Mythos is neutral, unless you use it on someone against their will.

have you by any chance heard of the fan-made NWOD game genius: the transgression, it may be worth a read (or skim, is rather big) and you may get some ideas from the mechanics of background inside, the titular genius's have some similar themes going on.

other totally not creepy things I swear.

as a guy whose class would likely say the exact same thing im not going to believe that one second. please prove me right .

and while im here I may as well post the complete disease mythos ive mentions a few times if anyone is interested.

Necrotic meat-mutation
Perquisite: Monster-making beast-lord

Spoiler

Show

Your body becomes host to a mutational disease. This disease is spread through your body fluids and though any natural attack you possess, using the mechanics listed below:
It is an injury disease whose save DC as is normal for mythos-based effects. It has an onset period of 3d4 days with a frequency of 1/month.

The effects of the disease are 1d2 charisma drain, and once contracted it is curable with two successful saves.
The visible symptoms of the disease are that the victim’s entire body begins going through temporary spontaneous mutations, at first only things like hair colour or skin texture may be effected, but later entire vestigial limbs may develop and retract, their limbs develop new joints, and eventually the infected individual becomes a horrifying sight of jumbled, ever-shifting flesh and erupting organs, looking almost as if a swarm of writhing insects has burrowed beneath their skin. Despite the effects on someone’s looks, and likely their mental state, a canny individual can make use of their situation. Once a creature has took five points of charisma damage from the disease they increase their natural reach by 5ft, for every three points of such damage they take they increase all their physical statistics by one point, and they gain a bonus on intimidate checks equal to ½ the amount of charisma damage they have taken.
Unfortunately (for the victim anyway) however the infected who reach an advanced stage of infection, having a charisma of 7 or lower and after a minimum of a month infected, develop an unending compulsive hunger, gaining a bite attack that deals 1d6 damage for a medium creature. That drives them to consume any and all food available, but that still does not reduce the hunger. The only way a creature may relieve themselves of their hunger is by consuming the body of a creature that has been dead for no less than 24 hours. The infected creature can consume the body unnaturally quickly taking 15 minutes for a small sized creature, with +15 minutes per side larger or half that time per size smaller. After eating the creature the infected individual gains a number of graft points (identical to yours but they lack any means to use them) identical to how many you would have gained should to have harvested the corpse for graft points, taking into account any modifiers you possess into the roll such as making the dice used d6s or such, with the alteration that all dice rolled are maximised (should the consumed creature possess graft points they are gained by the consumer as well). Once the creature has consumed point’s equal to the amount of charisma drain they possess X10 they regain a point of charisma drain and cease their hunger until they need to make a save for the disease again.

This continues until the creature has been infected for 3d10 years or their charisma becomes zero, at which time the true effects of the disease become apparent upon the victim slipping into a coma and begins to mutate over an hour. At this time you immediately become aware of this creature and subsequently become aware of their location and of what the creature has seen in the past minute. You may then immediately create a creature, as per ‘Monster-making beast-lord’, without having to pay the 15 points to construct the creatures body, and using the amount of graft points the creature has (and only that creature, not any of yours) combined with that they would grant should you harvest them but with the dice rolled maximised. This creature is treated as one you created in all ways and for resurrection purposes the creature who was infected (whose body became the new creature) is treated as if their body was raised as an undead creature bypassing nay immunity to such effects. When creating a creature due to this disease you must spend at least half the graft points available. Any unused points are granted to the Kreikiri.
Creatures created from the infected bodies are considered allies to each other, and will likely engage in pack tactics if of animal level intelligence, and will cooperate to greater degrees if smarter, and such creatures may retain their original mind is you desire them to (but now loyal to the other infected creatures).
Once the disease is cured any charisma drain the infected creature took becomes charisma damage and can be healed normally and any graft points the creature accused are lost and granted to the Kreikiri.

Advanced manifestations:
Virulent plague
You gain ability focus (Necrotic meat-mutation) as a bonus feat. In addition your disease now becomes magical, now requiring a remove curse spell in additional to a cure disease spell to cure it.

Outbreak
All creatures created though your disease gain the ability to spread the disease through their bodily fluids and natural attacks identically to the Kreikiri. Additionally you select one of your natural attacks. When used to transmit the disease the DC is increased by +1.

Dead men tell no secrets but those of flesh
When an infected creature dies their death throws produce a number of thrashing limbs that target all creatures within 10ft. have the creature roll a single attack roll and compare it to all effected creatures AC and every creature hit takes 2d6 damage.
For every creature that dies as a result of this (as well as any corpses in the area affected) is fused with the now dead infected creature that is immediately considered to have consumed those corpses for graft points. After this the creature immediately becomes a creature as if their charisma becomes zero.

Nightmarish genesis
Whenever the disease causes a creature to be formed, it only takes one round to do so.

Unbound creation
Your disease now ignores immunity to disease.

im quite pleased with it myself, seriously im sure you could make a campaign based around that mythos alone, just think of the potential (... and now I sound like a kreikiri, ugh I need sleep).

[Sgt. Cookie]

I love it! I love the Epithymia intro too but I didn't have an account at the time. I find the nearest integer mechanism very creative. The player won't know if it's more or less but will have a rough idea. Perfect.

That's sort of the idea. You ever play the newest Thief game? At the start, Garret identifies a mask as being made from fake gemstones as soon as he has a look at it. This ability is meant to give you that "trained eye" that can tell the beauties from the baubles at a mere glance.

My only concern, please explain how it interacts with illusions with a little more clarity. By my reading, if a naked person used an illusion of clothes, it'd be a no save illusion penetration. This could have unforseen implications stronger than you'd want for an Excellency. Certain abilities/spells may at least call for a caster level check against something appropriate to the Epithymia. At least personally, I hate the binary nature of True Seeing and spells I'm general.

Well, the ability isn't anything like True Seeing. Hell it isn't an Illusion-dar. It's a Value-dar. A room full of illusionary gold doesn't ping on the value-dar and that would make you suspicious, but trying to pick it up and finding your hand goes through it as if it were air is more suspicious.

Similarly, an Illusion of a Pit Fiend wouldn't ping on the value-dar, but that won't make you automatically suspicious because an actual Pit Fiend wouldn't ping either.

I will add the following, though: "You are treated as if you were "Interacting" with the Illusionary Object, but your inability to gauge any kind of value at all is often proof enough that an object is an illusion. Illusions of creatures (And even some large, low value objects such as an Illusionary wall) are not "Interacted" with, as the creature (or large object) would not "have" a value even if it were real.

Also, I know it's very WiP but can you create an Epithymia thread? I have a lot of ideas. In addition, I've been lurking this forum and minmax for many years and have a large collection of well done rogue-like base and prestige classes. I'd like a thread to post links to them, highlight their unique abilities and discuss how they can become inspiration for Epithymia mythos and class features.

Sure, I'll stick it up now for ya. Class table and things will have to wait for a few hours, though (It's 2:30 AM for me right now.)

Final thought, since you and (int) darkness are developing thematically different mythos rogues, I'd suggest you collaborate with him on mythos that work mechanically for both classes. Since this is all for free, neither of you should feel guilty or uncreative for having overlapping mythos despite taking the mythic rogue in different directions. I'm not a mythos expert but I do consider myself well-versed in rogue lore and plan on providing feedback for both of you.

Best,
-Mk

(int) darkness' Umbramendax is a generalised class, you can be the trickster, the liar, the assassin, powered by the vestigial remains of the first shadow, hiding away until the time you strike and show the world what you really are.

The Epithymia is a Thief. Nothing more than a taker of wealth and nothing less than a perfectionist. The scion of the first selfish thought who, rather than face the Sun it wanted, took the stars from the sky to comfort it.


So, while I understand the idea behind the suggestion, the thematics behind the classes are too different to make collaboration a worthwhile endeavour.

[Tacitus]

Not heard of Virus, might look it up at some point, but I'm trying my hardest to do Mythos right now that aren't in that line. Not enough options yet to play a nice guy with an Occasus. Plenty to drive the crazy train to a meatpocalypse, but not to be a nice guy.

Have heard of Genius, skimmed it ages ago and could never get my group to get on with it. I'll have to look it over again.

I have my Shintai planned out in concept. Your Mania becomes equal to its maximum at all times and can never be lowered, you no longer suffer from comas from Wis being penalized to 0, but you become akin to the Kishin, producing a madness wavelength that might slowly drive the world insane. Will branch from an enhancement line that Borgs people, which may or may not let you be reborn from one of them akin to the Teramach mythos that makes reavers, but with less anger and more madness. Bonus points if they look like nurses with malformed faces, bandaged heads, or no faces at all.

[Seventeen]

While I don't want to put words in Seventeen's mouth, I'm pretty sure what is meant by 'what's the story' is 'what is the fluff'? I also think the attack penalty is pretty small, but I'm not that good at balance myself.

For my own part, I'd like to know why does the no-frills Bellator have a set of mythos based on elemental imagery? Or at least I'm assuming as much from the names. To compare, while the Olethrofex has an elemental mythos in Necrotic Phantasmagoria Pulse, the elements have an tainted by the forces of death.

Got it in one.

[SodaDarwin]

Despite having never tried homebrew before, since I saw the Mythos system and started examining it aplenty, I've been thinking.
Unfortunately, as I can't find anything to transliterate Greek-to-English, I'm lacking in the clever names department. What idea I do have though, is a monster. Not like the Teramach, who is a mental monster of physical rage and slaughter, but a physical monster of domination and consumption made to rule or end whatever they touch. And they can mutate heavily, through acquiring and manipulating Biomass. Inspired by characters and things such as Alex Mercer from Prototype, the Zerg from Starcraft, or even sort of Kevin 11 from Ben 10 I suppose.
A cosmic horror that claimed the very being of some poor soul, rapidly twisting them to fit its own needs. They may fight back against it, or embrace it, or even try to manipulate it in turn. They could be an all consuming being attempting to annihilate existence with its hunger, or a 'mother' that creates a hive, to conquer. Perhaps not tyrannical in nature. However, it is always primal, always disturbing. Depending on the build, I'd imagine it could go anywhere to and between a freight train upon the battlefield, such as Alex Mercer, to a queen of the Zerg or Xenomorphs. Heavy emphasis on melee, versatility through mutation and spontaneous changes, and crowd control with possibilities of minions and/or durability.
They'd be resource based, getting the Biomass needed for abilities and mutations by consuming organic matter.
As Mythos scale from extroadinary, but plausible, to deific things, I'd imagine Exceptional Mythos to be those the common people could imagine, but still only exist within nightmare fuel stories made for the purpose of making children behave. Thralls and children, claws and hunger. A standard, if disturbing monster. Fantastic would be things barely out of the realm of what people dare accept, and those who can imagine them cry in terror from what may be. Giants, broods, and the monsters that make valiant knights go cry in the corner. Legendary is what even kings cannot dare fathom, for fear their kingdom would rot from the thought. Hives and dragon sized horrors, all consuming beings that the universe dares to allow in only due to fear of what they would do to it if it refused.
Exalted Mythos come from the nightmares of the gods. Turning not just nations but planets and further into hives, or consuming the fabric of the world for lack of what else to claim.

[Tempestfury]

So... a Mythos Evolutionist? Because that's what the idea sounds like tbh.

[SodaDarwin]

Oh. Darn.
I'll go sit in the corner

[Tempestfury]

Hey, hey. That's just my thoughts and opinions on it, why don't we wait until a few more people have said their piece, hmmm?

[commander panda]

Hey guys, quick question. Do we have a mythic weapon finesse style thing for dex based bellators yet? I feel like there should be an option to build a dex based bellator.

[Tempestfury]

No, there is no such option. Though I was thinking of making my own fencing mythos that uses weapon finesse.

[commander panda]

Hmmm... In that case I think I'm going to pull together an exceptional mythos to let the belletor Use her dex in more places. Maybe lend a hand to the occasional vertically challenged bellator as well.

[Tempestfury]

Yes... a mythos that could let you use your dex instead of strength for other places, including other mythos could be interesting to see...

[Temotei]

Done!

[Kymme]

Dear sweet Malpheas...



It's beautiful.

[commander panda]

Done!

havent finished reading the mythos yet, but the fluff is really, really cool. needy for more mythos, but cool.

[Tempestfury]

Hmmm... do people think it might be possible to make a Kensai Mythos?

[Amechra]

Can I make a general request?

Can you guys grab a dictionary or something, to check the meanings of words before you use them? I mean, I used to think that's what you did, and then the word Spoor comes up.

"Spoor" is a term used by naturalists and hunters to refer to the feces left behind by an animal, which can be used to track it down; it does not mean "path", "trail", or "route". I know I'm over-reacting a bit, but seriously; know what the words you're using mean.

And if you are iffy on what they mean, look it up.

(I'm assuming, of course, that Temotei didn't actually mean to have a Mythos that reads Planar-Boundaries Breaking Poop. If so, carry on, as you were (with a dictionary; poetry isn't an excuse for bad English)).

[ThreadNecro5]

Unfortunately, as I can't find anything to transliterate Greek-to-English, I'm lacking in the clever names department.

have you tried Google translate?, that is what I use.

What idea I do have though, is a monster. Not like the Teramach, who is a mental monster of physical rage and slaughter, but a physical monster of domination and consumption made to rule or end whatever they touch. And they can mutate heavily, through acquiring and manipulating Biomass. Inspired by characters and things such as Alex Mercer from Prototype, the Zerg from Starcraft, or even sort of Kevin 11 from Ben 10 I suppose.
A cosmic horror that claimed the very being of some poor soul, rapidly twisting them to fit its own needs. They may fight back against it, or embrace it, or even try to manipulate it in turn. They could be an all consuming being attempting to annihilate existence with its hunger, or a 'mother' that creates a hive, to conquer. Perhaps not tyrannical in nature. However, it is always primal, always disturbing. Depending on the build, I'd imagine it could go anywhere to and between a freight train upon the battlefield, such as Alex Mercer, to a queen of the Zerg or Xenomorphs. Heavy emphasis on melee, versatility through mutation and spontaneous changes, and crowd control with possibilities of minions and/or durability.
They'd be resource based, getting the Biomass needed for abilities and mutations by consuming organic matter.
As Mythos scale from extroadinary, but plausible, to deific things, I'd imagine Exceptional Mythos to be those the common people could imagine, but still only exist within nightmare fuel stories made for the purpose of making children behave. Thralls and children, claws and hunger. A standard, if disturbing monster. Fantastic would be things barely out of the realm of what people dare accept, and those who can imagine them cry in terror from what may be. Giants, broods, and the monsters that make valiant knights go cry in the corner. Legendary is what even kings cannot dare fathom, for fear their kingdom would rot from the thought. Hives and dragon sized horrors, all consuming beings that the universe dares to allow in only due to fear of what they would do to it if it refused.
Exalted Mythos come from the nightmares of the gods. Turning not just nations but planets and further into hives, or consuming the fabric of the world for lack of what else to claim.

I realty like this idea. especially the creating a hive part, i have been wanting to play something like that for a while now as it seems an interesting idea from a gaming perspective as well as in character. yes, I play weird stuff.

[Temotei]

(I'm assuming, of course, that Temotei didn't actually mean to have a Mythos that reads Planar-Boundaries Breaking Poop. If so, carry on, as you were (with a dictionary; poetry isn't an excuse for bad English)).

Usually I just think of words that fit and if I run out, I go to the thesaurus and cross-reference with the dictionary.

This time I forgot to use the dictionary. Derp.

[ShadowFireLance]

Despite having never tried homebrew before, since I saw the Mythos system and started examining it aplenty, I've been thinking.
Unfortunately, as I can't find anything to transliterate Greek-to-English, I'm lacking in the clever names department. What idea I do have though, is a monster. Not like the Teramach, who is a mental monster of physical rage and slaughter, but a physical monster of domination and consumption made to rule or end whatever they touch. And they can mutate heavily, through acquiring and manipulating Biomass. Inspired by characters and things such as Alex Mercer from Prototype, the Zerg from Starcraft, or even sort of Kevin 11 from Ben 10 I suppose.
A cosmic horror that claimed the very being of some poor soul, rapidly twisting them to fit its own needs. They may fight back against it, or embrace it, or even try to manipulate it in turn. They could be an all consuming being attempting to annihilate existence with its hunger, or a 'mother' that creates a hive, to conquer. Perhaps not tyrannical in nature. However, it is always primal, always disturbing. Depending on the build, I'd imagine it could go anywhere to and between a freight train upon the battlefield, such as Alex Mercer, to a queen of the Zerg or Xenomorphs. Heavy emphasis on melee, versatility through mutation and spontaneous changes, and crowd control with possibilities of minions and/or durability.
They'd be resource based, getting the Biomass needed for abilities and mutations by consuming organic matter.
As Mythos scale from extroadinary, but plausible, to deific things, I'd imagine Exceptional Mythos to be those the common people could imagine, but still only exist within nightmare fuel stories made for the purpose of making children behave. Thralls and children, claws and hunger. A standard, if disturbing monster. Fantastic would be things barely out of the realm of what people dare accept, and those who can imagine them cry in terror from what may be. Giants, broods, and the monsters that make valiant knights go cry in the corner. Legendary is what even kings cannot dare fathom, for fear their kingdom would rot from the thought. Hives and dragon sized horrors, all consuming beings that the universe dares to allow in only due to fear of what they would do to it if it refused.
Exalted Mythos come from the nightmares of the gods. Turning not just nations but planets and further into hives, or consuming the fabric of the world for lack of what else to claim.

Actually, uh, I have this exact concept.
The Archansin; (Which, I'm not quite sure what it translates to anymore, I think it has something to do with Hive or swarm, and monster.)

Spoiler: image

Show

It uses the exact mechanic you mentioned; Biomass. Myself and a friend are mostly done with it, we've just hit the stumbling block of how to make massive hive structures out of people.

[SodaDarwin]

Actually, uh, I have this exact concept.
The Archansin; (Which, I'm not quite sure what it translates to anymore, I think it has something to do with Hive or swarm, and monster.)

Spoiler: image

Show

It uses the exact mechanic you mentioned; Biomass. Myself and a friend are mostly done with it, we've just hit the stumbling block of how to make massive hive structures out of people.

My god.
Okay then.
HIPHIPHOORAY FOR THINKING ALIKE! Cannot wait to see how it'll turn out at the end.

[commander panda]

ok. new Bellator excellency. i'll try to get my weapon finesse mythos written up soon-ish, but university just started chucking assignments at my head, so i might be a while.

also, if anyone has any ideas for a better name, i'm all ears. not a huge fan of this one. changed my mind . forget it.

Spoiler: Excellency

Show

Ocean Splitting Battle-Shrimp
Prerequisites: size small or smaller

As long as the Bellator remains smaller than medium size, she may treat any weapon she wields as if it were built for a creature one size larger than her whenever it is beneficial. At level 10 the Bellator has the option to treat her weapons as two sizes larger.

In addition, the attack bonus she gains from being smaller than average increases by 2. This attack bonus disappears, however, if she exceeds small size.

EDIT: should have been "exceeds small size". fixing it.

EDITEDIT: ok, so this mythos is going to be pretty inconsequential at higher levels. i'm making a quick edit to give it a bit more shelf life.

[vasharanpaladin]

ok. new Bellator excellency. i'll try to get my weapon finesse mythos written up soon-ish, but university just started chucking assignments at my head, so i might be a while.

also, if anyone has any ideas for a better name, i'm all ears. not a huge fan of this one.

Spoiler: Excellency

Show

Ocean Splitting Battle-Shrimp
Prerequisites: size small or smaller

As long as the Bellator remains smaller than medium size, she may treat any weapon she wields as if it were built for a creature one size larger than her whenever it is beneficial.

In addition, the attack bonus she gains from being smaller than average increases by 2. This attack bonus disappears, however, if she exceeds medium size.

Any name that references the almighty pistol shrimp is exempt from scorn. 'Tis a beautiful thing.

[commander panda]

....truth be told, i've never actualy heard of the holy pistol shrimp. now that i have, i feel much better about that name. thank you, ser paladin!

[commander panda]

sorry for the double post, guys, but i just pulled together a rough draft for Bellator's mythic weapon finesse, and i need some opinions.

my main question is if it seems to versatile for its teir. i want the dex based bellator to be just as viable as the strength based one, but i'm worried i might have overdone it.

i'll post questions in red where i'm particularly concerned, but if i'm completely missing something, let me know.

ok, i think its fine now. i'll call this done.

Spoiler: excellency

Show

The Nimblest Killer You Ever Did See
prerequisite: The Bellator's dexterity score must be higher than her strength by two points.
Not all Bellators go to battle clad in rippling muscle. A Bellator who has this excellency, and wields a light or one handed weapon, has the option to replace her strength score with her dexterity score for the purpose of attack rolls, damage and skill checks. She also replaces her strength modifier with her dexterity in any strength based saving throw DCs.

[JKTrickster]

I think it would be better as an Excellency.

Honestly Mythos should be building blocks for stories. Weapon styles or armor styles or actions that couldn't be taken otherwise.

This is basically Weapon Finesse+ - mainly passive bonuses and a random Improved Feint (which has nothing to do with Dex mechanically)

So why not an Excellency?


Be Nimble, Be Quick

Req: Weapon Finesse

A Bellator can only benefit from this Excellency as long as their Dex is 4 points higher than Str (or something like that)

With any weapons that Bellator can apply Weapon Finesse to, it can also add Dex to damage.

Furthermore, for all Saving Throw DCs or Skill Checks based on Strength, Bellator can substitute their Dex mod instead.



~~~

I think that's enough. Allowing Dex to replace Stre ENTIRELY would be broken.

A Str based Bellator still wants 18 Dex (give or take, esp if they want Lightning and Wind Execution). A Dex based Bellator would never need Str, ever. And that would get worse if you allowed it to replace Str for other Mythos. Then Dex would be TOO strong.