Frenzied Berserker and Rage.

[m149307]

Curious, if you go Rage, then Frenzy... is it possible to end the Frenzy when you end Rage (thus bypassing the will save)?

[Red Fel]

Sort of.

Although the two are separate effects, Frenzy lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + Con. If you have one of the Rage versions that increases Con (such as regular Rage), that would increase your Frenzy duration; ending Rage reduces Con, and thus may reduce the duration of Frenzy. If you have exceeded 3 + (non-Rage Con) rounds in Frenzy, and end your Rage, your Frenzy will end.

That said, if you've exceeded 3 + (non-Rage Con) rounds, there's a reasonable chance that everything is (or should be) quite dead.

[Seppo87]

You can't end your rage voluntarily when in a Frenzy.

Frenzy says specifically that you must fight at your best.

Even if you enter a frenzy while not raging, you must rage as soon as possible, because that's your best.

Because interrupting your rage means having less destructive power, a Frenzied Berserker is never allowed to not rage when frenzied.

[Segev]

My inner optimizer is ashamed; it never occurred to me that you could activate Rage and Frenzy simultaneously to stack them. This is especially silly since it mentions under the Frenzy ability that, if the character is still Raging, they don't suffer fatigue yet.

Interestingly, the Rage-granted bonus to Will saves would help end the Frenzy.

But this means a Frenzied Berserker is going to have +10 to strength, not "merely" +6. +14 with Greater Frenzy. Interesting.

[Inevitability]

You can't end your rage voluntarily when in a Frenzy.

Frenzy says specifically that you must fight at your best.

Even if you enter a frenzy while not raging, you must rage as soon as possible, because that's your best.

Because interrupting your rage means having less destructive power, a Frenzied Berserker is never allowed to not rage when frenzied.

Actually, it depends. Rage gives you restrictions on what you can do, and these restrictions might as well be the only way you can fight in this situation.

For example, a barbarian/wizard/frenzied berserker (yeah I know) is fighting another wizard who casts fly and leaves. To 'fight at the best of his ability', the wizard would now have to end his rage and cast fly himself.

[Seppo87]

For example, a barbarian/wizard/frenzied berserker (yeah I know) is fighting another wizard who casts fly and leaves. To 'fight at the best of his ability', the wizard would now have to end his rage and cast fly himself.

You can't cast fly when Frenzying either. Interrupting your Rage won't lift the limitations.

[Inevitability]

You can't cast fly when Frenzying either. Interrupting your Rage won't lift the limitations.

I was under the assumption that removing one would stop the other. I'm sorry.