Puzzle & Dragons 7: Puzzleball Z

[SiuiS]

Yeah. Mine was, after all the Himiko failures, my first Cleo dupe skills her up. >__<

I'm dehydrated enough to affect my driving right now though. So I shouldn't be orbing anyway.

[Erloas]

So they posted the other Lucifer Ultimate, he gains attacker type, looses a lot of HPs in exchange for attack, he stays dark/dark rather than the dark/red of devil. And his LD skill changes 3x ATK and a HP boost to Attacker types.

So RO ACE collab was moved, they didn't get a new time, it just didn't show up and they posted that it was rescheduled.

Which is just as well, I have a lot of Keepers I want to get today and it gives me a bit more time to level up my subs for the low cost team.

Speaking of which, does any of the EVA monsters seem worth keeping around for low cost/low rarity uses? The Fifth and Sixth Angels both look reasonable, at 15 team cost they aren't exactly low cost but they still fit into low rarity. I was thinking the Fifth (red) one would be good for those cases where you need to remove binds and I don't know of any other low rarity monster that can do that (well cupid but low stats and since most low-cost/rarity teams seem to be attackers...)

[Otravyat]

Decision making time on lucifer. For me, he becomes a better sub in the high attack D/D version. Double dark works better with pandora, and when sweeping everything anyways the health for attack swap is probably preferable. Similarly, the attacker subtype would give him a potential slot on my eventual DMeta team. No orb change himself of course, but those awakenings will improve any dark/orb change focused team.

On the other hand, the attacker leader skill is useless for me when I already have cao cao and DMeta. I don't have any other viable devil leaders right now, and I was planning on using him with the other uvo in that capacity. He would still work for pandora despite the red attribute, and the main loss is towards the ability to use him as a DMeta sub. Thoughts? I'm leaning towards the devil/balanced even with the less optimal subtype...

[Fax Celestis]

Do any of you have Andromeda, by the by?

[Erloas]

One thing to consider is that a same color sub-type does 10% of the base damage and an off-color sub-type does 30%, so not counting combos both versions of Lucifer have almost the same total attack.

Dark/dark attacker is 1706 base, 171 secondary; or 1876 total
Dark/red balance is 1406 base, 422 secondary; or 1828 total

So it is a very small total increase in damage (at the loss of 600HPs). Granted if it is a straight dark team with a lot more dark combos and orb shifting it is going to be better but for a red/dark team like your general devil team it is going to come out a lot closer.

And for what it is worth the red/balance looks a lot cooler than the dark/attacker.

As a side, while I don't see a lot of balance teams any more (based on leaders of friends) I don't think I've seen much of anything for attacker teams ever.

I've also never been a fan of mono-color teams. I think rainbow or dual or triple color is the way to go. You generally loose way too much utility in mono-color teams because some abilities are much harder, if not impossible, to find in any given single color and as soon as you start putting "off-color" monsters on your team because of their skills you've kind of lost the point of going mono color in the first place. Considering you would then have 17% of your team attack being essentially useless makes me think it would be hard to make up for that.


As for something similar but different, since I have both evo's of Karin and a lot of other potential subs I really should look at making a Type version of her team. The dragon would be easier to activate but in general dragons kind of suck, but I have several gods with dragon sub-types (though many are red, which doesn't work with her), and I have Draggie, which is on-type and on-color for the team.
The other side is Physical and I have quite a few parts to that. I think Karin//Guan Yu, Vamp, Siegfried, Bubblie//Karin|PhyIsis would be very interesting. All 3 colors and a heartbreaker in each color which would fix some of the problems I have with running Karin in general, the fact that it seems to get orb trolled way too much.
But both teams would rather suck for RCV, of course another ATK/RCV physical or dragon leader for a friend would fix that for either version.

[Otravyat]

One thing to consider is that a same color sub-type does 10% of the base damage and an off-color sub-type does 30%, so not counting combos both versions of Lucifer have almost the same total attack.

Dark/dark attacker is 1706 base, 171 secondary; or 1876 total
Dark/red balance is 1406 base, 422 secondary; or 1828 total

So it is a very small total increase in damage (at the loss of 600HPs). Granted if it is a straight dark team with a lot more dark combos and orb shifting it is going to be better but for a red/dark team like your general devil team it is going to come out a lot closer.

And for what it is worth the red/balance looks a lot cooler than the dark/attacker.

As a side, while I don't see a lot of balance teams any more (based on leaders of friends) I don't think I've seen much of anything for attacker teams ever.

I've also never been a fan of mono-color teams. I think rainbow or dual or triple color is the way to go. You generally loose way too much utility in mono-color teams because some abilities are much harder, if not impossible, to find in any given single color and as soon as you start putting "off-color" monsters on your team because of their skills you've kind of lost the point of going mono color in the first place. Considering you would then have 17% of your team attack being essentially useless makes me think it would be hard to make up for that.

Thats a good point regarding sub-types. DMeta is a far off dream just based on having drawn her, so realistically I shouldn't let that influence my decision anyways. Pandora WOULD be mono-dark with a lot of orb changers, but the biggest flaw of my lineup is no Hanzo for red -> dark. So the sub types for persephone and lucifer would still get some use.

I do feel like I can get most of the utility I need out of a mono-dark pandora team. I've got pandora x 2, Vampire, and Persephone for orb changers. Lucifer gives orb enhance. D/L Bats gives delay. 5 row enhances. 7 skill up awakenings. That being said my main team will always be U&Y.

[Fax Celestis]

As for something similar but different, since I have both evo's of Karin and a lot of other potential subs I really should look at making a Type version of her team. The dragon would be easier to activate but in general dragons kind of suck, but I have several gods with dragon sub-types (though many are red, which doesn't work with her), and I have Draggie, which is on-type and on-color for the team.

ADKZ//BG Karin with Corpse Wyrm sub covers all three colors and gets 10.5x. I've had good success personally with CDKV//Corpse Wyrm/Orchid/JDDJ/Blast Aurora Dragon//BG Karin, but I'm on a rather limited suite of dragons. Something like BG Karin//JDDJ/Draggie/[Pick two: Vrita/Cleopatra/Ishtar/Demon Hadar/Corpse Wyrm]//[ADKZ/CDKV] could be pretty strong and definitely pretty consistent.

Something like this. Two orbchanges, a heartmake, a board enhance, a board switch, and a 2.5x spike which would kick you up to 26.25x for one turn. No delay, but you could switch out JDDJ or Corpse Wyrm for Echidna or Waron. Melody and Brachy would be perfect, if for some inexplicable reason you have them.

[Erloas]

The main question is whether or not it is worth doing. After all, very few dragons seem worth using in any situation, and I don't have any of them leveled at this point.

Although looking at it the Samurai and Mech dragons have a lot better weighted stats than I realized before, and I have some of them and at least the Mech dragons are coming around right now. And I have green Sonia too and I will probably get her leveled up after not too long. I had mostly been thinking about the good dragons I had now, which was RSonia, red Guan Yu, and archangel Uriel, all of which are red.
I have ADKZ too, but he just never seemed all that strong to me so I never really got him past 50ish. And I just realized that Draggie's ultimate has the same abbreviation and almost the same name, to be clear Draggie is still in his first form for me.

The question though is can the team do descends? For farming it is going to be really hard to beat out my devil team for utility, power, and always having the friends available. And as soon as you start running into binds, needing delays, and being able to stall a dragon team seems to fall flat on its face.

[SiuiS]

Decision making time on lucifer. For me, he becomes a better sub in the high attack D/D version. Double dark works better with pandora, and when sweeping everything anyways the health for attack swap is probably preferable. Similarly, the attacker subtype would give him a potential slot on my eventual DMeta team. No orb change himself of course, but those awakenings will improve any dark/orb change focused team.

On the other hand, the attacker leader skill is useless for me when I already have cao cao and DMeta. I don't have any other viable devil leaders right now, and I was planning on using him with the other uvo in that capacity. He would still work for pandora despite the red attribute, and the main loss is towards the ability to use him as a DMeta sub. Thoughts? I'm leaning towards the devil/balanced even with the less optimal subtype...

Thats a good point regarding sub-types. DMeta is a far off dream just based on having drawn her, so realistically I shouldn't let that influence my decision anyways. Pandora WOULD be mono-dark with a lot of orb changers, but the biggest flaw of my lineup is no Hanzo for red -> dark. So the sub types for persephone and lucifer would still get some use.

I do feel like I can get most of the utility I need out of a mono-dark pandora team. I've got pandora x 2, Vampire, and Persephone for orb changers. Lucifer gives orb enhance. D/L Bats gives delay. 5 row enhances. 7 skill up awakenings. That being said my main team will always be U&Y.

Pandora teams do enough damage that attack attribute doesn't really matter. Evo'ing for attack is overkill.

Case in point; I've seen a team with hanzo's skill fodder on it that swept through descends. You're supposed to be doing a base of 16*2.25*1.6=57.6 times damage as your base multiplier, which is even better than Ra (due to guaranteed rows).

[Otravyat]

Pandora teams do enough damage that attack attribute doesn't really matter. Evo'ing for attack is overkill.

Case in point; I've seen a team with hanzo's skill fodder on it that swept through descends. You're supposed to be doing a base of 16*2.25*1.6=57.6 times damage as your base multiplier, which is even better than Ra (due to guaranteed rows).

Thats 2.25 for the 8 combo, and 1.6 for row enhance if you have 6 row enhances? Im still learning the math behind this stuff.

[SiuiS]

Yeah. Quick count had two enhance (leads) two enhance (lucifer) and one each the remaining TW— uh, three subs? Hmmm. Dark Valk, Haku, any Sonja brings at least one more
What's standard pandora team? Hanzo, Dmeta, Fallen Lucifer, red Sonja? Get a Loki in there somewhere instead and you're rocking out. Dmeta is two, Faluci is two, Hanzo is one, Sonja is one, so that's actually 8...

[Otravyat]

Yeah. Quick count had two enhance (leads) two enhance (lucifer) and one each the remaining TW— uh, three subs? Hmmm. Dark Valk, Haku, any Sonja brings at least one more
What's standard pandora team? Hanzo, Dmeta, Fallen Lucifer, red Sonja? Get a Loki in there somewhere instead and you're rocking out. Dmeta is two, Faluci is two, Hanzo is one, Sonja is one, so that's actually 8...

Pandora is at least decently flexible. I don't have ronia or hanzo. Running vampire to couple with pandora's heart making active. Persephone gives me another double orb change but no row enhance. I get two from FaLuci and one from D/L bats (which I'll eventually swap for the two from DMeta). So I'm just sitting on 5 right now. If I get a grape dragon and a billion tamadras that's another possible sub for two row enhances and synergy with a heartbreaker.

It's not an optimal team with Persephone, Vampire, Lucifer, and D/L Bats. But the lack of hanzo from the rem limits me somewhat. Obviously I can fairly quickly get his skill up monster for the red to dark change but without ronia that isn't necessarily worth it. With the pandora/vampire synergy and persephones double change I feel okay.

[Erloas]

Well you can think a bit outside the box for Pandora and see there are a lot more options. Green and Blue Sonia would work just as well as red, they all do X/dark, so a 50% dark board is enough to hit Pandora's 4x attack. Not to mention that Pandora's special would finish off Green Sonia's active and make the entire board black.
Anubis would also switch the green for you (to save Pandora's if necessary). And Blue Sonia can be finished off by CDD, a fairly easily farmed monster, so either of those you're only relying on one REM only god (Sonia) rather than 2 (Sonia+Hanzo)

Not to mention that Hanzo has fairly poor stats, his exceptionally low HPs will make quite a few dungeons more dangerous.

Meimei, Karin, and Haku all have dark in their 7-star formations, and with your other orb changers you can easily hit 2/3 of the board as dark. Which could actually be a lot better than all black as you can form multiple rows or a row and other smaller combos.

[Otravyat]

Well you can think a bit outside the box for Pandora and see there are a lot more options. Green and Blue Sonia would work just as well as red, they all do X/dark, so a 50% dark board is enough to hit Pandora's 4x attack. Not to mention that Pandora's special would finish off Green Sonia's active and make the entire board black.
Anubis would also switch the green for you (to save Pandora's if necessary). And Blue Sonia can be finished off by CDD, a fairly easily farmed monster, so either of those you're only relying on one REM only god (Sonia) rather than 2 (Sonia+Hanzo)

Not to mention that Hanzo has fairly poor stats, his exceptionally low HPs will make quite a few dungeons more dangerous.

Meimei, Karin, and Haku all have dark in their 7-star formations, and with your other orb changers you can easily hit 2/3 of the board as dark. Which could actually be a lot better than all black as you can form multiple rows or a row and other smaller combos.

All of these are things that I would love to do, but just don't have the ingredients. My only godfest only monster is DMeta, and I dont have any of the 7-star series. But as you say. Pandora is flexible. I'll work with what I have for now and then plug in other options as they come. Hanzo is number one on my wish list more because DMeta really needs him and gryp rider in order to have the attacker orb changers. Just bonus for Pandora.

[Erloas]

So to change the direction a bit... any idea what to do with Gaia?

I don't know if the general low cost Attacker team I have planned for most things would work for this because its scaled up a bit too much that low of cost.
I was originally thinking about doing a Fenrir Knight Kamui lead balance team but I don't know if its going to have the power to kill stuff quickly, and I don't think it will have the HPs to survive the bigger hits. I have a Baron still around, but not leveled much, that should make the Treants possible, but I'll have to do a bit of figuring on what a 6.25x atk team can actually do.

I just don't have any sort of feel for how many rounds its going to take a 6.25x team to take out ~400k hps when I know at least some of it is going to be reduced damage coloring.

Also does anyone else have a non-ultimates Kamui they can put up for me?

[SiuiS]

So to change the direction a bit... any idea what to do with Gaia?

I don't know if the general low cost Attacker team I have planned for most things would work for this because its scaled up a bit too much that low of cost.
I was originally thinking about doing a Fenrir Knight Kamui lead balance team but I don't know if its going to have the power to kill stuff quickly, and I don't think it will have the HPs to survive the bigger hits. I have a Baron still around, but not leveled much, that should make the Treants possible, but I'll have to do a bit of figuring on what a 6.25x atk team can actually do.

I just don't have any sort of feel for how many rounds its going to take a 6.25x team to take out ~400k hps when I know at least some of it is going to be reduced damage coloring.

Also does anyone else have a non-ultimates Kamui they can put up for me?

My goal is to wait until my team is properly leveled and try again alter. I don't think bats//bats, CDK, vamp, and two filler can do it.

Once you can beat legendary seaway, Fire dragon will help loads.

[Academia]

Do any of you have Andromeda, by the by?

Mine's evolved and at lv 60 and no awakenings.

[Jasmine]

I must have done something terrible. 5 runs of super golds got me 20 high golds and 5 kings.

[tyckspoon]

Mine's evolved and at lv 60 and no awakenings.

Similar - leveled to the mid 50s, no Awakenings. My Water critter development kind of fell by the wayside since my Sonia and monoFire teams got beefy enough to handle most things, and anything they can't take on right now would need a few million more XP spread into the water monsters to get them to suitable stats.

[Fax Celestis]

I might ask to borrow them if and when I get a few more rowhance awakenings. We'll see. That's a long term project.

[SiuiS]

So earlier I was able to get through mechdragon legendary with goemon. It was close, several times, but it worked out; only took a 1x3 and some skyfall to win (thank goddess; I flubbed and grabbed the wrong starting orb!). Looking to do it again, actually, twice more. Need awakenings after all, and one to evolve Hadar with.

And then I need to look into beating the golden keeper. Can you Goemon golden keeper? I suspect that if you have enough Hp and also RCV, yes.

[Starwulf]

Whew, finally beat Ocean Dragon Knight on Legendary with my Healer girl team. It was my third try, and it was still quite touch and go, but I did manage it, in large part due to max skilled Echidna. I used delay 3 times in the dungeon. Now to finish up expert and intermediate for the stone. In retrospect I probably should have just swallowed my pride and just used my F/L Horus team to wipe out her dungeon, but I wanted to prove that it was possible to win with a Lmeta/Valk based team.

[Academia]

i been grinding cleo on master since i need the sunquan fonder but i gotten at least 15 cleos over the last week or so which made one cleo at skill lv 3.

i also maxed skilled one sunquan! working on 2nd one. hopefully i can make it. then is grinding for some angels for odin and isis skill ups, which are lesser priority than my ares.

i been skipping a lot of metal dragons for these skill ups, but they seem common enough. xD

oh, my max leveled flame chaser will be up for gaia all day. hopefully it work xD. I might need your flame chaser later jasmine.

edit: you guys think grinding to skill up my 2nd sunquan is worth it? he is a situational sub for my kirin and i can replace him with my echi. if i grind for that and angels i will have to buy some stones... and im sure it will be 3 - 6 months before.this dungeon comes around agaib. what you guys think?

aca

[Jasmine]

oh, my max leveled flame chaser will be up for gaia all day. hopefully it work xD. I might need your flame chaser later jasmine.

edit: you guys think grinding to skill up my 2nd sunquan is worth it? he is a situational sub for my kirin and i can replace him with my echi. if i grind for that and angels i will have to buy some stones... and im sure it will be 3 - 6 months before.this dungeon comes around agaib. what you guys think?

aca

No buying stones. You also only need to skill up your SQ once for most purposes, since the delay + 1 round for enemy to attack will stall out another 3 turns.

I fed my chaser up to 68 for you, although I'll be going to sleep for a while. I'll refresh him now and then throughout the day.

[Academia]

No buying stones. You also only need to skill up your SQ once for most purposes, since the delay + 1 round for enemy to attack will stall out another 3 turns.

I fed my chaser up to 68 for you, although I'll be going to sleep for a while. I'll refresh him now and then throughout the day.

fair deal. no buying stones. never thought of it like that. i will see where i get without buying stones. but getting 30 angels for em skill ups takes more priority thsn my 2nd SQ.

and i need 3 wood mech dragons.

have a week to do this. i think its possible. with maybe some free stones from challenge mode.

i dont need the flame chaser till tonight Central Time. xD all good. sleepy dreams.

[Erloas]

Working on your second Sun Quan? I haven't even got a single skill-up on my first. Granted I haven't been running the dungeon too much so I haven't had really bad luck but I think I'm in the 0/7ish range. Not too far out of theory but still annoying.


So it looks like RO ACE collab was dropped in favor of the GungHo collab.
It looks a lot better to run but not as good for me for skill-ups, at least on the phone. The tablet needed more Valk skill-ups and has Anubis and Amon. But the ACE has Valk but also had Sieg and Cu Chu skill-ups and I use both of them more than most of the stuff here. The phone's valk is already maxed. I also really needed the Minerva skill-up but that is gone too. The only other one I need is Bastet and that is in both.
I don't think I'm going to bother collecting any more of the toy dragon skill-ups, one is almost done and the other isn't even close but they sit in my box so long and I almost never see myself using any of them I just don't really think they are worth it to me.



So I have a couple free tamadra right now and I'm trying to decide what to do with them. D/L Lilith gains dark row and +time, and I just don't see myself leveling up and ultimating 2 more Liliths to feed her (well only need to evo one), both abilities are good and she (currently) sees a lot of use on my Devil team. But that might change here shortly, once I get Lu Bu evo'd, I've got a pile of kings waiting for him too.
My other likely candidate is B/D Karin, she currently has 3 and needs 4 more but the next 2 are Blue/Black row enhancement, which might be good if I used her as a leader but since she mostly sees use as a situational Horus sub I don't think I'll be putting those row enhancements to use much.
The last option is Dark Minerva, while the jammer block isn't much good her bind immunities is, but I won't have the Tamadra to get more than half immunity at this point. She should help a lot in Sky Prison and a few other places once I get her some skills, while the def break probably won't help too much (300k is still a lot to break but not impossible for my teams) the bind immunity and sniping should be good.


Lastly, does anyone have Fenrir Knight Kamui they can put up for me?

edit: looking at my Gaia team I'm not sure who to take.
Right now I have:
FK Kamui (74)//PK Homura (66)/Verche, KotS (75)/Black Baron (20)/Vamp Lord (45)

Options: Shaitan (35), Copperhead (22/fully awoken), Robin (17), Jelly's Angels (32) and several of the other mystic knights in the second evo but only mid levels.
Shaitan has crap stats but the void wood damage, but I don't know if it would be up in time to do any good. Copperhead has bad stats and the only place the poison would really help is the Treants but it doesn't seem to be enough. Robin would boost the whole team's damage but not by a lot and he has poor stats too. Jelly's Angels has the same mediocre stats as everyone else, skill is on too long of a timer.
So really Shaitan and Robin seem like the only reasonable choices but I don't know if they would be worth taking. I think I have to have the Baron to take down the Treants, the others all have pretty good stats from their levels, so I think thats my best choice. I've got 1 super and 6 kings in metal that I was saving for Lu Bu but I could drop them on either the Baron or Vamp. I'm not sure if the levels would be the difference between victory and defeat though. Baron isn't ever going to see use except for this sort of conditional team, but I've been building for these teams for a while too (I doubt they'll ever get ultimates). Vamp will eventually become B/D but not until I've got a lot of these low-cost dungeons done.

Thoughts?

[Fax Celestis]

Sorry, Fenrir's the only one I don't have in final evo yet.

God I wish I had some stones. GungHo Collab has skill up fodder for both Isis and Bastet.

As far as Minerva goes, aren't we getting another tamadra tomorrow? Wouldn't that get you there?

[Erloas]

As far as Minerva goes, aren't we getting another tamadra tomorrow? Wouldn't that get you there?

Yes, but that will give me 2 total, so I'm trying to decide what to do with those two. Right now Minerva doesn't have any and she needs 4, Lilith has 1 and needs 2 more, Karin has 3 and needs 4 more.

[Academia]

Working on your second Sun Quan? I haven't even got a single skill-up on my first. Granted I haven't been running the dungeon too much so I haven't had really bad luck but I think I'm in the 0/7ish range. Not too far out of theory but still annoying.

I've gone multiple times with 0/5 and 0/4 on feeds. But SQ only need 5 skill ups to hit. And keep in mind, I been exclusively running it since it came out. I haven't even touched the mech dragon yet. Spent like 4 stones so far too. I fed 31 fonders to my first SQ to have it maxed - That's a 16% chance. It's better to get 4 and 5 and feed it at once than 1 by 1. Just my opinion and feel.

I don't think it's luck.... For this one. I never let 0/5 discourage me lol.

Aca

[Erloas]

Well no one had Kamui up but someone had a red Baron and I was hoping it was enough. I really shouldn't have continued on it, but I did. And once I was a couple in I keep using them, ended up getting a chest too... Without another Kamui I'm not going to try again, it wasn't too bad but I really needed that extra damage to kill stuff quickly enough.

The Flower wasn't a problem, the Treants were almost a problem but my def break came up just in time. Everyone else I just wasn't killing fast enough.