(Social, fem) "The Princess's hand for.. wait, that won't work.."

[Sith_Happens]

(although, you're not getting anything other than daughters out of that marriage no matter how you try).

I don't know, I wouldn't put it past the infamous Girdle at least to be that comprehensive.

Now, the real question is, what if it's a dragon who rescues your princess.

You hope it's one that can change shape, if only so your kingdom doesn't suffer a critical brain bleach shortage within the year.

[toapat]

Now, it doesn't matter all that much, from a family perspective, whether or not the child particularly WANTS to create heirs, because that's their duty; in that sense, homosexual men have it easier than lesbians, because you can always get your wife knocked up by someone else when you're not interested in women, but it's not convenient, most of the time, to have someone else bear the children you're supposed to.

at least in DnD, Lesbian couples have about an easy of a time as heterosexual couples. its actually the M/M ones that have issues. Alter self is only 10 Minutes/CL while Shapechange is at best a day.

And that assumes that polymorph style spells are not themselves functioning as Contraceptives. who knows what wizard in their personal haze of manic supersanity designed those spells for what reasons they chose.

Maybe you pay one of the court wizards to train the princess till she acquires the feat Precocious Apprentice (Alter Other). If they really have issues, have the court wizards send out feelers for that one really creepy wizard in the world who specializes in Embrace/Shun the dark chaos

I offer her my daughter's hand in marriage and a girdle of Masculinity/Femininity so my daughter can produce heirs and the hero can still go off adventuring. ^^

preferably a custom one using the curse rider. or ideally an Eternal Wand of Persisted Alter self

really, all this discussion does is make me imagine that in DnD settings theres some huge conspiracy of lesbian wizards/clerics (who themselves only have Mommy and Other mommy for parents) who want to remove the existence of the "male tyrant" through either direct means or by spreading the cursed + Nonbinding girdles of 3.5 throughout the kingdom, that also are gender keyed and only work for women

[Segev]

Between the fact that the Girdle in question uses Bestow Curse as its base spell, and Bestow Curse explicitly states that it can generate "other effects" as long as they're not more powerful than those listed in the spell proper, I'm of the firm belief that you can use it to curse somebody into the opposite sex. If they're willing, they may consider it "cursed with awesome," but it is still subject to Remove Curse.

[Angelalex242]

If the Dragon rescues the princess...

Well, half dragons have to come from somewhere...and that +8 strength bonus us kind of handy on an heir to the throne. +2 Int/Wis/Cha helps too.

[VeliciaL]

Between the fact that the Girdle in question uses Bestow Curse as its base spell, and Bestow Curse explicitly states that it can generate "other effects" as long as they're not more powerful than those listed in the spell proper, I'm of the firm belief that you can use it to curse somebody into the opposite sex. If they're willing, they may consider it "cursed with awesome," but it is still subject to Remove Curse.

As a trans woman... can I live in this setting?

[Segev]

As a trans woman... can I live in this setting?

Not setting specific; it's just what I would, unless the DM disagreed with me, expect Bestow Curse to be able to do. (If nothing else, Craft Wondrous Item on a cleric who can cast 4th level spells should enable it, as they can make Girdles of Masculinity/Femininity by the RAW.)

If you don't mind my asking, I'm never clear on which direction "trans X" is going. Does "trans woman" mean "born male, wants to be female" or "born female, wants to be male?" (I am referring to physical body, here, and mean no offense by the question.)

Put another way, is X in "trans X" what you are pre- or post-transition?

[Hyena]

This question can be answered just by looking at her "gender" field below the avatar. Trans-woman means post-transition.

[VeliciaL]

Not setting specific; it's just what I would, unless the DM disagreed with me, expect Bestow Curse to be able to do. (If nothing else, Craft Wondrous Item on a cleric who can cast 4th level spells should enable it, as they can make Girdles of Masculinity/Femininity by the RAW.)

If you don't mind my asking, I'm never clear on which direction "trans X" is going. Does "trans woman" mean "born male, wants to be female" or "born female, wants to be male?" (I am referring to physical body, here, and mean no offense by the question.)

Put another way, is X in "trans X" what you are pre- or post-transition?

"Born male, wants to be female" is probably the simplest way to put it. It's not perfect, but it's a decent short-hand.

This question can be answered just by looking at her "gender" field below the avatar. Trans-woman means post-transition.

Not quite, I'm pre-transition and identify that way. Exact definitions of these things tend to be kinda fuzzy though.

EDIT: Switching gears for a moment...

(although, you're not getting anything other than daughters out of that marriage no matter how you try).

You do realize children aren't copies of the parents, right? I Don't see how shapechange magic would necessarily preclude offspring from being either gender.

[Segev]

Oh, the symbol under your name does make it pretty clear what the desired state is, at least. I just didn't notice it there. My bad!

[Sith_Happens]

You do realize children aren't copies of the parents, right? I Don't see how shapechange magic would necessarily preclude offspring from being either gender.

By not turning one of the "father's" X-chromosomes into a Y.

[Segev]

By not turning one of the "father's" X-chromosomes into a Y.

The thing is, if it's changing them down to the cellular level such that the father now has sperm, there's no reason to assume it wouldn't go all the way and finish the job.

Or, put another way, it's magic that's making her magically into a boy. If shape-shifted dragons make half-dragons with humans, and elves make half-elves with humans, then a magically-boyitized girl can make boys or girls with a human girl.


The alternative is to suggest that, if you zap a boy into a girl so they can have kids with a boy, they have the option of either boys or UBERboys, since XY and YY are the possible combinations there. :P

[horngeek]

Heh. I was more thinking a spell that didn't actually require any transformation for curtains=baby.

I will acknowledge that if your method involves the Girdle, you'll likely get the standard distribution of boy/girl.

[Sith_Happens]

The thing is, if it's changing them down to the cellular level such that the father now has sperm, there's no reason to assume it wouldn't go all the way and finish the job.

Or, put another way, it's magic that's making her magically into a boy. If shape-shifted dragons make half-dragons with humans, and elves make half-elves with humans, then a magically-boyitized girl can make boys or girls with a human girl.

The alternative is to suggest that, if you zap a boy into a girl so they can have kids with a boy, they have the option of either boys or UBERboys, since XY and YY are the possible combinations there. :P

Which is what I said already (more or less), but technically there's no official word on the matter.

[Metahuman1]

I propose that the real question is: What happens when The Adventurer, a Titan, A Storm Giant, a Mind Flayer and a Dragon All show up to rescue the same princess at the same time, and are ALL of the female persuasion, and Heroically inclined, and, how do I say this delicately, interested?

...

This sounds stupidly hilarious the more I think on it.

[Sith_Happens]

I propose that the real question is: What happens when The Adventurer, a Titan, A Storm Giant, a Mind Flayer and a Dragon All show up to rescue the same princess at the same time, and are ALL of the female persuasion, and Heroically inclined, and, how do I say this delicately, interested?

You end up with a yuri harem comedy.

[horngeek]

Someone should write a fic for that. :P

[toapat]

The thing is, if it's changing them down to the cellular level such that the father now has sperm, there's no reason to assume it wouldn't go all the way and finish the job.

Or, put another way, it's magic that's making her magically into a boy. If shape-shifted dragons make half-dragons with humans, and elves make half-elves with humans, then a magically-boyitized girl can make boys or girls with a human girl.


The alternative is to suggest that, if you zap a boy into a girl so they can have kids with a boy, they have the option of either boys or UBERboys, since XY and YY are the possible combinations there. :P

its also magic, so theres nothing to say it cant stabilize the catastrophic cellular hell of restabilizing and re-engineering a body without changing the gene pairing. Or that it alternatively could, as determined by the crafter/caster of the arcane that is performing such.

However, YY cant actually develop, and would cause a miscarage in the girdle wearer if impregnated.

[JusticeZero]

Alternately, don't worry about it because chromosome structures are the bizarre fever dream imaginings of some Alteration-illiterate bard who either doesn't understand or doesn't care about realistic Platonic inherent runic pattern interaction theory.

[Coidzor]

Good luck passing off a gay marriage as legitimate, though. Every claimant worth his bloodline would tear it to pieces.

Eh, if they can kill a dragon with a toothpick, why didn't *they* go and kill the dragon?

You do realize children aren't copies of the parents, right? I Don't see how shapechange magic would necessarily preclude offspring from being either gender.

I suppose if magic and genetics mix in a certain way, it'd be that both parents would only have X chromosomes to give.

Although I suppose one of those chromosomes could be ye Modified X with the triggers to cause virilization or whatever the process is called that causes fetuses to start developing along the male-type body plan.

If the Dragon rescues the princess...

Well, half dragons have to come from somewhere...and that +8 strength bonus us kind of handy on an heir to the throne. +2 Int/Wis/Cha helps too.

The LA makes it rather unfortunate if they're not a useless layabout Aristocrat, though.

[Mando Knight]

Alternately, don't worry about it because chromosome structures are the bizarre fever dream imaginings of some Alteration-illiterate bard who either doesn't understand or doesn't care about realistic Platonic inherent runic pattern interaction theory.

Really, in a world where humans and dragons can interbreed with almost literally anything else that can speak, and elements really are things like water, fire, and earth, I doubt our real-world biochemistry really matters at all.

[Coidzor]

The alternative is to suggest that, if you zap a boy into a girl so they can have kids with a boy, they have the option of either boys or uberboys, since xy and yy are the possible combinations there. :p

Punnit Square'd	X	Y
X	XX - Female-type	XY - Male-type
Y	XY - Male-type	YY - Nonviable

[Sartharina]

You hope it's one that can change shape, if only so your kingdom doesn't suffer a critical brain bleach shortage within the year.

Why brain bleach?

[Metahuman1]

hornGeek and Sith_Happens: Or we should see if we can get that togeather in a Highschool Harem Comedy Game.

[Sartharina]

Punnit Square'd	X	Y
X	XX - Female-type	XY - Male-type
Y	XY - Male-type	YY - Nonviable

Not necessarily. Genetics are weirder than that. There are some guys with XX genetics, and some women with XY(Complete Androgen
Insensitivity Syndrome is one cause for the latter). Intersex is a thing, though rare.

[horngeek]

hornGeek and Sith_Happens: Or we should see if we can get that togeather in a Highschool Harem Comedy Game.

...I would be up for that. One of my character ideas once was actually 'princess who's been the kidnapped and doesn't want it to happen to her again, and one thing lead to another...'.

[Sith_Happens]

...I would be up for that. One of my character ideas once was actually 'princess who's been the kidnapped and doesn't want it to happen to her again, and one thing lead to another...'.

...And before long she's cutting boulders in half with a butter knife.

[horngeek]

Well, the concept is her as a Magus (PF, not D&D).

So... potentially?

[Coidzor]

Not necessarily. Genetics are weirder than that. There are some guys with XX genetics, and some women with XY(Complete Androgen
Insensitivity Syndrome is one cause for the latter). Intersex is a thing, though rare.

Yeah, I didn't need to go into more specifics than pointing out that two XY people can make XX in addition to XY and YY, assuming the ability for them to pass gametes to one another and make a zygote and then fetus and so on.

[SiuiS]

So you're the King of a small warlordy kingdom, and you have trouble with a dragon or whatever that your army just isn't up to dealing with. Years ago, you would have grabbed your friends and gone to battle, but these days, your joints creak, you can barely swing your mighty greatsword anymore, and you just aren't feeling all that powerful. Your kids? Freaking lazy accountants who barely know which end of the sword is the stabby one.. They couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag.
Then some adventurers go out into the woods to kill the dragon. You figure "yeah, okay, my daughter for defeating the dragon, since let's face it, if they get mad anyone who can take down THAT thing can probably solo my castle anyways. This way I at least get to retire with my wife first, and it more or less stays in the family".
Then some lady in fancy armor that's probably worth more than every piece of siege available to you by itself comes wandering back carrying a dragons head in a cart and a rune covered glowing sword thing by her side, and you realize she probably isn't going to be interested in your lazy kid son, and most likely the princess won't be that appealing either..

What to do at this stage?

Nope, sorry. The princess was on the line, that was the agreement. Players and town criers the land over have all said "king so desperate he would even give his daughter's hand in marriage", that's what's on the line.

It's so much more interesting having a lady knight who doesn't want a princess and a princess who doesn't want a lady knight and they're both on the spot, than to have a simple answer, move along to the next murder quest.

It's actually a thing now too! Plenty if comics and such about this very thing.

[horngeek]

Wait, really? Could you point to any of them, because that sounds interesting.