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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by Various people
    Blah blah unlimited power blah achieve godhood blah class tier
    This are the exacts reason why, no matter how interesting Pun-pun ascenscion and the likes are as thought experiments, any attempt to try it on an actual table should be banned via DM fiat.

    And doing so is increadibly easy. Each and every one of these process require some time, and take a clear direction far before their final accomplishment. And at that point...
    DM : Suddenly, a portal to the astral plane opens in front of you. A kobold, obviously hostile, comes from it. Roll initiative.
    [Rolls]
    DM : The kobold attacks you.
    [Rolls anything but a 1]
    DM : He hits you for [arbitrary high STR modifier + whatever damage dice the kobold have]. You're dead. He then takes your body with him, opens another portal and leaves. You may tear your character sheet, since nobody will ever be able to raise you.
    Player : But... WHY?!?
    DM : Because Pun-pun was on the road to ultimate power first, and he hates your guts.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Because Pun-pun was on the road to ultimate power first, and he hates your guts.
    I'm sigging this.
    Rudisplorker of the faith, true Rudisplorker
    Quote Originally Posted by Cazero View Post
    Because Pun-pun was on the road to ultimate power first, and he hates your guts.
    Extended Sig

    I'm a template!

    And an artifact!

  3. - Top - End - #273
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by torrasque666 View Post
    I'm sigging this.
    Please do.

  4. - Top - End - #274
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    I'm not sure why people are using Thrallherd to justify claims that Psion is tier one. Thrallherd raises the power of the base class by two tiers, but it's a separate class and therefore has no bearing on the Psion's tier.

    For that matter, Erudite's a separate class too, so that doesn't impact the Psion's tier either.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Keledrath's Avatar

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by Werephilosopher View Post
    For that matter, Erudite's a separate class too, so that doesn't impact the Psion's tier either.
    Actually, Erudite is a variant Psion, so technically, they are the same class.
    I follow a general rule: better to ask and be told no than not to ask at all.

    Kelon by nijashe

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  6. - Top - End - #276
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Actually, Erudite is a variant Psion, so technically, they are the same class.
    Yes, but you know what I mean. The tier system looks at them separately, due to different mechanics.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    Actually, Erudite is a variant Psion, so technically, they are the same class.
    In the same sense that my "homebrew variant fighter" gets Warblade progression in maneuvers, int-based class features, and counts as fighter-2 for all feats requiring fighter levels, is technically the same class as the fighter, maybe. ;)

    More seriously, the Psion and Erudite are SO different that they're functionally different classes.

  8. - Top - End - #278
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    Owl Prowler's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    The difference between Commoner Candle of Invocation bootstrapping and Partially Charged Monks with Cross Class Wands of UMD is, the Psion gets this power, see. It's called Psychic Chirurgery (and Psychic Reformation, for that matter), and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for a Psion of ML17 or higher not to have payed to have it put on them. And it then allows them to get every power ever printed as a power known. But then, there's this conveniently available (so long as WotC hasn't buggered their site recently, which is something of a recurring issue, I'll admit) ACF which allows all Sorc/Wiz spells to become powers. If we're assuming a RAW, all books are open environment (which is as good a default assumption as any, and better than most), there are StP Erudites out there. Our Psion has the tools to find them; she has the tools to convince them to dance the Psychic Chirurgery/Metaconcert Tango. Yes, it may take some doing, but that's what downtime/flowing time demi-plane shenanigans are for, right? And with the Thrallherd, a PrC that's as close to core as anything else Psionic, it's even easier. So they have the tools, in class, not available to everyone and their adventuring grandmother, to get every spell and power in the game, all available all of the time.

    I'll grant you, this may not work in an environment in which the DM has eliminated or otherwise limited the StP Erudite. But has no bearing on their absolute power level in the RAW/ABAO environment. Basically, in any setting where there is at least one StP Erudite, the Psion has the means to find them and get every power and spell ever printed grafted onto their powers known list. All it takes is time and resources built into the class itself.

    So, while there's some superficial similarities to Bootstrap Bill, Commoner, Esq. and the Giacomonk, the parallels do not continue past the surface.

    Except that the tier system doesn't deal with TO. It deals with the power of a class's out-of-the-box abilities. If your DM-dependent TO depends on you stealing an Erudite's class abilities (and by the way, unless you're a Thrallerd there is nothing RAW about assuming there will be an Erudite in your game) then you're not showcasing the power of the Psion. You're showcasing the power of a StP Erudite.

    Rules as written, a Sorcerer gets Gate out-of-the-box. That's powerful.
    Rules as written, a Psion does NOT get a friendly StP Erudite out-of-the-box. It is entirely up to the DM, and thus has no place in a conversation about RAW. You may assume that logically there should be StP Erudites in a world with a Psion, and while that's a fine houserule (oh wait, it breaks the Psion. Guess it's not such a good houserule after all!) it's not RAW. And it's PO even less.

    Sure, you can have a Thrallherd Psion that, by RAW, can get a StP Erudite. But if you go down that road then I might as well introduce you to Serf Mcleadership, a level 20 Commoner with a Wizard cohort.
    Last edited by Owl Prowler; 2014-08-13 at 01:57 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    What the heck? That was NOT all me. That was the person who I was responding to in this post.

    Then you decided to come along and argue against me for who knows what reason.
    Not you singular. You plural. As in the entire group involved in the conversation. Stupid English with its lack of making those meanings completely separate words. Spanish is a much less annoying language. Still has its quirks, but not as many.
    Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
    Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
    Thread wins: 2

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Jormengand's Avatar

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by ryu View Post
    Not you singular. You plural. As in the entire group involved in the conversation. Stupid English with its lack of making those meanings completely separate words. Spanish is a much less annoying language. Still has its quirks, but not as many.
    I'm sorry, but referring to people in the third person for no good reason does not help the issue!

    (Seriously, usted being third person makes no sense. It means you. It should not be third person.)

  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Segev's Avatar

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    I think he means vosotros form, which is 2nd person plural (and mostly used only in Spain).

    English used to have a second person singular: thee/thou/thy/thine. You/you/your/yours was 2nd person plural. It's taken over as the sole second person form, in modern English.

  12. - Top - End - #282
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    Jormengand's Avatar

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I think he means vosotros form, which is 2nd person plural (and mostly used only in Spain).

    English used to have a second person singular: thee/thou/thy/thine. You/you/your/yours was 2nd person plural. It's taken over as the sole second person form, in modern English.
    Yes, I know, it was a joke.

    (And in any case, usted/ustedes would work anyway)
    Last edited by Jormengand; 2014-08-13 at 02:39 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I think he means vosotros form, which is 2nd person plural (and mostly used only in Spain).

    English used to have a second person singular: thee/thou/thy/thine. You/you/your/yours was 2nd person plural. It's taken over as the sole second person form, in modern English.
    Incidentally it seems Zog was right. Most language savvy people in any given generation view their current language as a butchering of a previous form with varying levels of hostility and bile.
    Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
    Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
    Thread wins: 2

  14. - Top - End - #284
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    Owl Prowler's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryu View Post
    Incidentally it seems Zog was right. Most language savvy people in any given generation view their current language as a butchering of a previous form with varying levels of hostility and bile.
    Watchu talkin' bout? 'Murican English is best and everyone knows it.

  15. - Top - End - #285
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    The word you're looking for in this situation is in fact "y'all".

  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by ryu View Post
    Incidentally it seems Zog was right. Most language savvy people in any given generation view their current language as a butchering of a previous form with varying levels of hostility and bile.
    I never said modern English was butchered. Though I will confess that having thee/thou/thy/thine around again would amuse me.

    English is actually a very precise language in a lot of ways, and American English in particular has a habit of following other languages down back alleys, clubbing them over the head, and rifling through their lexicons that I think is very healthy for its evolution.

    Words have power, not because of any mystical thing, but because they let the human brain define something in a form that allows it to link similar concepts together and conceive of new things in new ways. I find that, every time I learn a new word, I find concepts relating to it that had always been there but which I had not yet recognized. I think that's the source of the myth that names have power and knowing a things name gives you power over it: people who know words for things were able to conceive of ways to utilize them which were alien and mysterious to those who lacked that understanding. This is more true the more abstract the concept, of course. "Schadenfrued" is a useful term, but certainly doesn't describe a solid object to which one could point.

  17. - Top - End - #287
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    I never said modern English was butchered. Though I will confess that having thee/thou/thy/thine around again would amuse me.

    English is actually a very precise language in a lot of ways, and American English in particular has a habit of following other languages down back alleys, clubbing them over the head, and rifling through their lexicons that I think is very healthy for its evolution.

    Words have power, not because of any mystical thing, but because they let the human brain define something in a form that allows it to link similar concepts together and conceive of new things in new ways. I find that, every time I learn a new word, I find concepts relating to it that had always been there but which I had not yet recognized. I think that's the source of the myth that names have power and knowing a things name gives you power over it: people who know words for things were able to conceive of ways to utilize them which were alien and mysterious to those who lacked that understanding. This is more true the more abstract the concept, of course. "Schadenfrued" is a useful term, but certainly doesn't describe a solid object to which one could point.
    Oh I'm not denying that new words are a wonderful thing so long as a proper amount of specificity in terms is maintained. If it is maintained communication issues become less common. It is also optimal in language building to make fairly simple to understand rules that don't get excepted out every five seconds. Systems that break this rule tend to be harder to teach which is a very bad thing for what is supposed to the basis of communication, information storage, and definition of thought process over simple sensory concepts.
    Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
    Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
    Thread wins: 2

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    georgie_leech's Avatar

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post

    English is actually a very precise language in a lot of ways, and American English in particular has a habit of following other languages down back alleys, clubbing them over the head, and rifling through their lexicons that I think is very healthy for its evolution.
    That is my favourite description of English ever
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text
    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    So a ranger is like a Bachelor of Applied Druidology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Jake View Post
    What's the word for 'fear of being eaten by a mounted bear in half-plate' again? Because that's the one I have.

  19. - Top - End - #289
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    Brookshw's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    That is my favourite description of English ever
    Only language I know of that adds two thousand new words a year
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Avatar courtesy of Linklele

  20. - Top - End - #290
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    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    I don't get DM's bannng all magic/ magic items, then having enemys use magic.
    Confuses the fudge out of me. do they just want their players to die?

    No one expects the Spanish inquisition!

  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Kobold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theafroscotsman View Post
    I don't get DM's bannng all magic/ magic items, then having enemys use magic.
    Confuses the fudge out of me. do they just want their players to die?
    Yes, yes they do.

  22. - Top - End - #292
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    Windstorm's Avatar

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by Theafroscotsman View Post
    I don't get DM's bannng all magic/ magic items, then having enemys use magic.
    Confuses the fudge out of me. do they just want their players to die?
    usually this kind of DM/Group come to the realization that they're using the wrong system and switch over to something more fitting. I've pointed at least one group like this toward 7th sea and got thanked later since it was a much better fit for what they wanted to achieve.
    The difference between the possible and the impossible, is the measure of a man's determination.
    -Capt. James Thain

  23. - Top - End - #293
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    You see, it's called the Reverse Special Snowflake Syndrome. The DM is attempting to make the PCs feel insignificant and unremarkable by saying "No, you can't have magic, because magic is for special people in this setting, and you aren't special."

    ...I'm sorry, I thought we came here to play as the special people. I guess I'll go ahead and grab five ranks of Profession(farmer) and go off on my merry way to be a Commoner!

  24. - Top - End - #294
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    HaikenEdge's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milodiah View Post
    ...I'm sorry, I thought we came here to play as the special people. I guess I'll go ahead and grab five ranks of Profession(farmer) and go off on my merry way to be a Commoner!
    That is so full of win, I'd sig it if I didn't already have so much in my sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by (Un)Inspired View Post
    Contingency is like playing chess but you get to make several moves on your turn, several on you opponents turn and you're allowed to rearrange the board when he gets up to go to the bathroom.
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    Spite™! Obey your thirst...for VENGEANCE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    I'm not saying that nobody should play the marathon runner. I'm saying we should at least give him rollerblades.

  25. - Top - End - #295
    Orc in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    English is actually a very precise language in a lot of ways, and American English in particular has a habit of following other languages down back alleys, clubbing them over the head, and rifling through their lexicons that I think is very healthy for its evolution.
    English is the murderhobo of languages. Heck, just look at the 11 core classes in 3.5 - barbarian, cleric, and monk ultimately come from Greek, bard and druid are Celtic, and paladin and sorcerer are Latinate. Only fighter and ranger actually come from the same place the language itself did.

    (The origin of rogue is apparently uncertain. It has a stealthy etymology. I guess one day the word decided to come out of the shadows and do a sneak attack, only to fail because languages don't have discernible anatomies.)

    On-topic: I've been banned (sort of) from playing a character whose name starts with B before.

  26. - Top - End - #296
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    MindFlayer

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    yuk Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    I played under an effective ban on divination. We could only use it when the DM approved it, and at no other times. The most irritating part was that he gave no reason, even for something I could see, like arcane eye, or locate object, an after I had used detect magic.

  27. - Top - End - #297
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    I could understand a DM not wanting to put up with scrying, because either A) he doesn't know how to make sure his dastardly plans are protected from that and therefore uses his DM fiat to slap down the concept, or B) because he doesn't actually know what the people you're scrying on are doing and therefore uses his DM fiat to slap down the concept. And maybe therefore is just concealing his incompetence with the big scary divinations by banning ALL the divinations?
    Last edited by Milodiah; 2014-08-13 at 05:16 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #298
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Not being able to deviate from your original class. If you wanted to take a second class you had to have a mentor with you teaching you and it reduced your rate of leveling up.

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    Fax Celestis's Avatar

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by bjoern View Post
    Not being able to deviate from your original class. If you wanted to take a second class you had to have a mentor with you teaching you and it reduced your rate of leveling up.
    Why hello there, grandfather-claused 2e rule.

  30. - Top - End - #300
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Most nonsensical ban you've played under

    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    Why hello there, grandfather-claused 2e rule.
    That actually was 2e. It was very early on for me RPing, about 20 years ago. At the time I just thought the concept of a tabletop RPG was awesome so I had a blast despite all the restrictions put on me. Lots of great memories from those days.

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