[PF] ACG is now out! What strikes your eyes?

[Psyren]

Blood Arcanist isn't restricted from Wildblooded, actually. So yes, Wis-based Arcanist if you want.

No.

"A wildblooded sorcerer has a mutated version of a more common bloodline, with one arcana and at least one bloodline power that are different from those of an unmutated bloodline."

"The following section introduces new sorcerer bloodlines, as well as two new sorcerer archetypes— crossblooded and wildblooded—the latter of which comes with its own unique selection of modified bloodlines to reflect its bizarre and mutated origins."

Arcanists are not sorcerers, and the new hybrid classes are not alternate classes anymore like they were during the playtest.

[Lord Vukodlak]

What do people think of the swashbuckler?

[Kurald Galain]

There was a trick where a bladebound magus used a sword cane pistol as their black blade,

How's that work? The pistol does not appear to be a slashing weapon (yes, the arcanist variant does work with piercing weapons but the bladebound magus does not).

[Vhaidara]

What do people think of the swashbuckler?

I've got a character submitted that is using Swashbuckler, Kukris, TWF (eventually), and Slashing Grace. Basically, as far as I can tell, Swashbuckler is the new crit-fish class.

[Crimson Wolf]

Hey a real quick thing about the crossbow gunslinger archtype. For those earlier wondering about reloading and such and how to make it faster. The book Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting adds a feat that you guys might find valuable.

Page 218

Crossbow Mastery
You can load crossbows with blinding speed and even fire
them in melee with little fear of reprisal.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload,
Rapid Shot.
Benefit: The time required for you to reload any type of
crossbow is reduced to a free action, regardless of the type
of crossbow used. You can fire a crossbow as many times in
a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a
bow. Reloading a crossbow for the type of crossbow you chose
when you took Rapid Reload no longer provokes attacks of
opportunity.
Special: A fighter may select Crossbow Mastery as one of his
fighter bonus feats. A ranger may select Crossbow Mastery in
place of Manyshot for his improved combat style at 6th level.

[QuidEst]

Sorry, I meant to say Archetypes instead of Bloodlines there. How can the Arcanist take sorcerer archetypes?

All the other Arcanist stuff specifically restricts not taking Wildblooded bloodlines, but this doesn't, so it will at least be a very common interpretation.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I've got a character submitted that is using Swashbuckler, Kukris, TWF (eventually), and Slashing Grace. Basically, as far as I can tell, Swashbuckler is the new crit-fish class.

Doesn't TWF interfere with Precise Strike?

[Vhaidara]

Doesn't TWF interfere with Precise Strike?

Hm...Now to decide if it's worth it to drop that or drop the offhnad

[Zrak]

I'd drop the off-hand; one less weapon to enchant is tens of thousands of gold in your pocket.

[Secret Wizard]

Slashing Grace ain't work with Kukri either.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Hm...Now to decide if it's worth it to drop that or drop the offhnad

Well... the damage from Precise Strike isn't multiplied by critical hits on the other hand TWF is very feat intensive.

[Plerumque]

What do people think of the swashbuckler?

I've been playing one for five levels now, through the playtest and the updated version, and found it quite enjoyable. Since Slashing Grace was quite different in the playtest, I've been using Dervish Dance and the Spring Attack chain. Not the most optimal, but good for battlefield mobility. It's a class capable of holding its own in combat with a nice bag of tricks, and although there are a few things I wish they had done differently, it's nice to finally have a way to represent such an iconic archetype without jumping through all sorts of hoops. I've enjoyed playing him.

[Psyren]

All the other Arcanist stuff specifically restricts not taking Wildblooded bloodlines, but this doesn't, so it will at least be a very common interpretation.

Wildblooded is an archetype; the special bloodlines for it do not exist independently of that archetype. Even if you multiclass between arcanist and sorcerer, not only will the bloodlines not stack, but the rule about changing bloodlines to match means that your sorcerer bloodline will actually revert to a non-mutated form to match one that is available to the arcanist to use.

[Snowbluff]

Wildblooded is an archetype; the special bloodlines for it do not exist independently of that archetype. Even if you multiclass between arcanist and sorcerer, not only will the bloodlines not stack, but the rule about changing bloodlines to match means that your sorcerer bloodline will actually revert to a non-mutated form to match one that is available to the arcanist to use.

I concur. As an addendum, Int is a better casting stat than wis in general, even if my archer cleric's Perception and Will saves are obnoxious for his level.

[grarrrg]

The MADness! The MADness!
Lore Spirit Shaman
"Arcane Enlightenment (Su): The shaman's native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell's level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence."

WIS based caster, gets a CHA number of spells, that she needs a minimum X of INT to cast.

wut

How's that work? The pistol does not appear to be a slashing weapon (yes, the arcanist variant does work with piercing weapons but the bladebound magus does not).

Magus Black Blades are "...always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane."
Some take this and run with it the whole way saying a Sword Cane Pistol is still a Sword Cane, and thus a 100% valid choice for a Black Blade. Even though it very much flies in the face of Flavor, and spits in Flavor's face, and calls Flavor ugly names.

See also: the "what constitutes a 'punch'?" discussion a page or two back.

[Crimson Wolf]

Though sword cane pistol is a double weapon when you look at it, so only the sword part can be used for the abilities, and the pistol part of they took the feat for firearm proficiency.

[Bhaakon]

Though sword cane pistol is a double weapon when you look at it, so only the sword part can be used for the abilities, and the pistol part of they took the feat for firearm proficiency.

Correct. Also, spell combat is restricted to melee weapons regardless, so the only way to gain the benefit of the pistol half of the weapon would be one of the archetypes that gains ranged spellstrike (myrmidarch and I think there's another that's not OGL). In which case they'd probably be better off using a weapon with better range.

It's probably stretching the rules beyond their intent to use a sword cane pistol as a blackblade, but it's not really providing a significant benefit.

[Orsyn]

Correct. Also, spell combat is restricted to melee weapons regardless, so the only way to gain the benefit of the pistol half of the weapon would be one of the archetypes that gains ranged spellstrike (myrmidarch and I think there's another that's not OGL). In which case they'd probably be better off using a weapon with better range.

It's probably stretching the rules beyond their intent to use a sword cane pistol as a blackblade, but it's not really providing a significant benefit.

The primary advantage is the Unbreakable ability, making it essentially immune to misfires. (That is to say, it can still misfire, and therefore auto-misses on more than just a nat 1, but it can't gain the broken condition, and therefore can't explode.) But yes, you're absolutely correct about stacking it with Myrmidarch.

[Iwasforger03]

I've enjoyed much of what i've read of the new classes thus far.

Shielded Champion looks hilarious for Brawler. For those who don't know, it's basically a way to make captain america.

Warpriest. Warpriest is a badass. They changed fervor so it runs on Wisdom now, which is wonderful for warpriests. They didn't need fighter feats, but they get fighter feats, so whatever.

I'm somewhere between ticked and laughing my ass off at warpriest archetypes. They have a cavalier, rogue, paladin, and monk type archetype among others. The first two are very meh, but provide several points based on rogue or cavalier that are at least mildly useful.

The monk based and paladin based archetypes, in my opinion, try very hard to make the paladin and monk entirely obsolete. It may be possible to successfully debate the Paladin, but the monk archetype provides the warpriest most if not all the good parts provided by stock monk... and it still has warpriest bonus feats and spell progression.

I would say, aside from the classes that recieved 9th lvl spells, the warpriest is easily the strongest combat class in the book, possibly just the strongest.

I love the investigator. I still think their combat is bad, but their everything else makes me happy and joyful and I love how awesome their options are for outside combat, role play, adventuring, mystery.... It is just cool.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Investigator looks like the perfect passive class for gestalt characters who want to skillmonkey.

Am I the only one who's massively disappointed by the Shaman? I mean assuming the information here is correct, the class still has the massive basic editing errors from the playtest, like how some of her spirit abilities and hexes are randomly based on Wisdom and some are randomly based on Charisma (an aftereffect of copy-pasting oracle revelations).

[Snowbluff]

Investigator looks like the perfect passive class for gestalt characters who want to skillmonkey.

Are there any restrictions on using Studied Strike other than taking a free action? It sounds too good for gestalt.

I'm not sure how it holds up to vivisectionist, though. It doesn't have as good self-buffs as far as I can tell...

Am I the only one who's massively disappointed by the Shaman? I mean assuming the information here is correct, the class still has the massive basic editing errors from the playtest, like how some of her spirit abilities and hexes are randomly based on Wisdom and some are randomly based on Charisma (an aftereffect of copy-pasting oracle revelations).

I've never really been interested in the first place. It's still clearly just a witch with slightly different spells, right?

[Craft (Cheese)]

Are there any restrictions on using Studied Strike other than taking a free action? It sounds too good for gestalt.

I'm not sure how it holds up to vivisectionist, though. It doesn't have as good self-buffs as far as I can tell...

Actually I was more talking about how you can add Int to everything, and Inspiration (+1d6) to everything, without much effort. It's not quite as good as Factotum was, but in PF-only Gestalt games I can see myself using it in a Wizard//Investigator or Magus//Investigator build.

I've never really been interested in the first place. It's still clearly just a witch with slightly different spells, right?

It's a wussy version of the Binder in the same way the Witch was a wussy version of the Warlock. "We don't feel confident enough in this new mechanic to make an entire class out of it, so let's just throw it as an extra thing on a 9th-level spellcaster." Except while Witch hexes are pretty cool (even if I would prefer the class to be built around them) the Shaman mostly gets lame copy-paste Oracle revelations.

As for spells, it actually more closely resembles the druid spell list with a few weird additions like Divine Power.

[Psyren]

It's possible Shaman's MAD was intentional; I wouldn't really know as I have no interest in them either and didn't participate in any of their playtest threads.

[QuidEst]

Am I the only one who's massively disappointed by the Shaman? I mean assuming the information here is correct, the class still has the massive basic editing errors from the playtest, like how some of her spirit abilities and hexes are randomly based on Wisdom and some are randomly based on Charisma (an aftereffect of copy-pasting oracle revelations).

I'm actually quite happy with Shaman. The charisma stuff is no surprise… Clerics depend on both wisdom and charisma. They now have access to a bunch of default hexes, any one basic witch hex, good armor, plenty of nice spells, and some great archetypes. Also, starry flying fat raccoon familiar!

[Snowbluff]

Actually I was more talking about how you can add Int to everything, and Inspiration (+1d6) to everything, without much effort. It's not quite as good as Factotum was, but in PF-only Gestalt games I can see myself using it in a Wizard//Investigator or Magus//Investigator build.

Purrhaps. The ~32 damage per hit for no really cost or requirements sounds like it's an easy grab.

It's a wussy version of the Binder in the same way the Witch was a wussy version of the Warlock. "We don't feel confident enough in this new mechanic to make an entire class out of it, so let's just throw it as an extra thing on a 9th-level spellcaster." Except while Witch hexes are pretty cool (even if I would prefer the class to be built around them) the Shaman mostly gets lame copy-paste Oracle revelations.

As for spells, it actually more closely resembles the druid spell list with a few weird additions like Divine Power.

Oh, meh. :l

It's possible Shaman's MAD was intentional; I wouldn't really know as I have no interest in them either and didn't participate in any of their playtest threads.

I think it was intentional, like how they tried to make it matter with the arcanist. How much this actually works is unknown to me, since I'm similarly disinterested in the class itself.

[Pyromancer999]

Investigator looks incredibly fun. Haven't had a look at the actual thing, just d20pfsrd, but looks really fun and skill-monkey-ish, while maintaining a modicum of combat ability, although that most depends on Studied Strike. Waiting on the archetypes to come out, but Spiritualist, mentioned in the preview, looks cool, and hoping there's a thing that gives it something in exchange for its extracts.

Brawler also looks fun. Simple, and good for punching people out. It is simple, but sometimes it's fun to play a more simple character.

Arcanist looks way overpowered, but I could see it being played at reasonable power levels while having fun. Blood Arcanist seems to be basically a more powerful Int-based Sorcerer, which I have mixed feelings about, seeing as it would give exploits, which I overall love, but seems to really just ruin the Sorcerer's parade except for whatever few Sorcerer-exclusive tricks it had before.

Shaman is.....nope. Spirits look cool, but overall not a big fan of the class.

Hunter looks incredibly fun, if it weren't for the Animal Companion. I don't really like summoning much in D&D, nor companion creatures except for perhaps the Eidolon. If they got rid of that, though, I'd find it to be a great class to play. Maybe there's an archetype for that. Hope there is.

There's a lot of great stuff from what I've seen so far from d20pfsrd, but there's just as much if not more that really doesn't catch my eye.

[squiggit]

Maybe there's an archetype for that. Hope there is.

There's an archetype that lets you apply the full focus stuff to yourself and gives you a weak wildshape at level 4 in exchange for most of your animal companion features.

[ibtfu]

All the other Arcanist stuff specifically restricts not taking Wildblooded bloodlines, but this doesn't, so it will at least be a very common interpretation.

RAW the Arcanist can't take Wildblooded. Wildblooded is an archetype. This discussion previously occured with Eldritch Heritage.

[Pex]

Divine Protection
Your deity protects you against deadly attacks.

Prerequisites: Cha 13, Knowledge (religion) 5 ranks,
ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells; blessings†, domains,
or mystery class feature.

Benefit: You gain a bonus equal to your Charisma
modifier on all saving throws. If your Charisma modifier
is already applied as a bonus on all saving throw (such as
from the divine grace class feature), you instead gain a +1
bonus on all saving throws.

So no to bards, or sorcs, or any spontaneous arcane caster.

OMG! My oracles would love this. Just recently I decided for my Oracle of Life to invest ranks in Use Magic Device so he can use a wand of Bestow Grace, a Paladin spell. To get this ability as a feat would be supreme. I was going to take some other feat next level but it can wait if this is available. Need to speak with my DM. I'd even consider this for my Oracle of Dark Tapestry despite him really needing Silent Spell as his next feat. Tough decision.

[Pyromancer999]

There's an archetype that lets you apply the full focus stuff to yourself and gives you a weak wildshape at level 4 in exchange for most of your animal companion features.

I am more than okay with this. Thanks for letting me know! Can't wait to see the nitty gritty of it.