[PF] ACG is now out! What strikes your eyes?

[Gemini476]

That's just an urban legend though. I've never heard of this actually happening to anyone at level 1.

Let's take a hypothetical Wizard. 14 Con, because why not, so 6hp at level one.

The standard monster manual CR 1/2 Orc does 2d4+4 damage on a normal hit, which is an average 9 damage. On a crit, which is pretty common (18-20 threat range and +4 to hit), it does 4d4+8 (average 18).

Or, y'know, it just rolls max damage and puts you at -6hp. CLW heals an average 5.5hp and you're still adjacent to the Orc. Who also has a 1d6+1 javelin that disables you 1/3rd of the time, incidentally.

At first level, hit points are roughly equal to damage dice. ( e.g. A barbarian's 12+Con vs. a greataxe's 1d12+Str.) You only really start to get out of the range of (un)lucky crits at level four.

EDIT: Pathfinder is a little better since the Orc is CR 1 and you bleed out later, but the Orc also got an extra +1 to hit somewhere.

[Ethereal Gears]

Wouldn't that wizard have 9 hit points? Max hit points at level 1 (6) + Con mod (2) + favored class bonus (1)? Or 8 at the very least.

[Gemini476]

Wouldn't that wizard have 9 hit points? Max hit points at level 1 (6) + Con mod (2) + favored class bonus (1)? Or 8 at the very least.

Yeah, I messed up a bit and forgot this was a Pathfinder thread. Maybe a Human Sorcerer with 8hp would be a better example? Still gets knocked into the negatives on your average 2d4+4 hit.

Still, though, the reason they're called Hit Dice is because that used to be how many hits you could take. Literally - all weapons did 1d6 damage and all Hit Dice were 1d6 as well, with different classes getting more or less dice as they labeled up. If a monster had ten hit dice, then that meant that it would generally take ten hits to defeat it.

That all changed a bit with Greyhawk and the introduction of different sizes for hit dice, but the name stuck.

First level characters are ridiculously squishy and low-level games are rocket tag.

[Milo v3]

Wouldn't that wizard have 9 hit points? Max hit points at level 1 (6) + Con mod (2) + favored class bonus (1)? Or 8 at the very least.

Wizards have 4 HD not 6, so it's be 7, and most players I've had took skill points and racial based favoured class benefits over the health. So that'd be 6. Very easy to kill at level one.

[Divayth Fyr]

Wizards have 4 HD not 6

This is a Pathfinder thread, so they have a d6 HD.

[Milo v3]

This is a Pathfinder thread, so they have a d6 HD.

Holy crap. I have never noticed that they changed Wizard HD... How is that never mentioned in threads that ask about differences between PF and 3.5e

[malonkey1]

Holy crap. I have never noticed that they changed Wizard HD... How is that never mentioned in threads that ask about differences between PF and 3.5e

It's ultimately a fairly minor change. On average, +1 HP/HD change, really. Fair difference at level 1, where everybody gets HP=HD+Con, but after that, it's pretty minor.

[Milo v3]

It's ultimately a fairly minor change. On average, +1 HP/HD change, really. Fair difference at level 1, where everybody gets HP=HD+Con, but after that, it's pretty minor.

Matters to me because it means I've been making PF homebrew incorrectly "sorta" by making PF classes with HD d4 *Facepalm*

[Eldaran]

Matters to me because it means I've been making PF homebrew incorrectly "sorta" by making PF classes with HD d4 *Facepalm*

Except for the Barbarian (and maybe a PoW class) every Pathfinder class had HD based on their BAB. d6 for half BAB, d8 for three fourth BAB, d10 for full BAB.

[grarrrg]

Except for the Barbarian (and maybe a PoW class) every Pathfinder class had HD based on their BAB. d6 for half BAB, d8 for three fourth BAB, d10 for full BAB.

There are a small handful of Prestige exceptions, but all Base classes follow this guideline.

Spoiler: Exceptions

Show

Agent of the Grave 1/2 Bab, d8
Champion of Irori Full Bab, d8
Dragon Disciple 3/4 Bab, d12
Justiciar, Full Bab, d8
Living Monolith Full Bab, d8 (original printing only, "new" version is 3/4 Bab)
Rage Prophet 3/4 Bab d10

"Barbarian Exceptions"
Mammoth Rider Full Bab, d12
Stalwart Defender Full Bab d12

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Are there any nice rogue archetypes that could go well with Counterfeit Mage? I'm rather enamored of the archetype, but it does very little as a game-changer.