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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Ok mask Enchantments up, please cna i have some PEACH, (instead of that Masochist talking )..
    Still owe you that one, don't I? sorry for the delay, I haven't forgotten.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    "What's this? A railroad? Well, we better cross it now, or the train will come along and sweep us down the tracks!"

    *kills important NPC, avoids entire planned out plot*

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Eh no worries.

  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    I'm sorry, but I'll have to stop working on this. School has started again, and stuff just got really busy. I am sorry.


    On the bright side, the other competitioners will now only have 3-4 opponents.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2014-09-02 at 02:22 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    On the bright side, the other competitioners will now only have 3-4 opponents.
    3-4? Are you joking? Have you checked the thread recently? There have been, like, 30-something posts. That's at least 15 opponents. Maybe more.

    And by the way, the word is competitors, not competitioners.
    I do stuff.

    I usually log on, look at some threads, post, watch for few minutes, then leave and come back the next day. If I don't respond to your replies immediately, don't take offence.

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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by somebody27else View Post
    3-4? Are you joking? Have you checked the thread recently? There have been, like, 30-something posts. That's at least 15 opponents. Maybe more.
    It's a bit less than that. Zaydos alone has 10 posts, and there are a lot of classes out there with two or three posts to their name.
    Last edited by dragonjek; 2014-09-03 at 12:02 AM. Reason: Miscounting
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    On that note I'm almost done; I've finished all the homebrew dragons, and now just have to make ones for deities and Ashardalon. Then decide whether I actually want to add some epic level stuff (epic progression that grants more Aspects as you level, Epic Feats to get: higher level spell pool access, total access to everything of a specific school, additional disciplines for Sublime ones, more Spell Pool Points, epic spells, ability to double breath weapon power by adding more rounds to the wait, ability to imbue a spell into your breath weapon via Spell Pool Point expenditure, etc).

    And I had thought Stirge's was complete.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Stirge View Post
    I'm sorry, but I'll have to stop working on this. School has started again, and stuff just got really busy. I am sorry.


    On the bright side, the other competitioners will now only have 3-4 opponents.
    Hey, the more the merrier, but if you've got stuff going on, no worries. Maybe things will turn around and you will be able to finish. If not, no big deal. Maybe next time.

    Also, good luck with school, yo.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonjek View Post
    It's a bit less than that. Zaydos alone has 10 posts, and there are a lot of classes out there with two or three posts to their name.
    Yeah, I've got four. It's probably more like ten competitors total (not sure how many are dropping).

    Anyway, sorry I've been slow, Zaydos, but I will get that character done!
    Last edited by r2d2go; 2014-09-03 at 04:10 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by r2d2go View Post
    Yeah, I've got four. It's probably more like ten competitors total (not sure how many are dropping).

    Anyway, sorry I've been slow, Zaydos, but I will get that character done!
    More competitors = better.

    And I need to see if anything changed from when I got to "I just need to buy items" and went to "I must make stuff for 100+ homebrew dragons" and drove at several times the speed limit into a cliff in the Plateau of Leng.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    and drove at several times the speed limit into a cliff in the Plateau of Leng.
    One serving of Kudos for the sir!
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    "What's this? A railroad? Well, we better cross it now, or the train will come along and sweep us down the tracks!"

    *kills important NPC, avoids entire planned out plot*

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Madness Log Update: I'm finished? I... all dragons have been added, the Draconomicon's draconic gods (except the willful exclusion of Io) and Sardior have been added, Ashardalon has been added, my own homebrew trio of draconic gods have been added, Gestalt/higher powered version, Epic Progression, as many feats as I can think of to make, and Dwarven Racial Substitution levels... I'm... there's nothing left to do

    So it's time to exchanged fruits (PEACHes naturally, got a bit of a monkey in me), exchange NPCs, and I guess I'm taking requests for races to make more substitution levels for

    Also Elegrin the Blackened; no fluff yet for this Elven Aspect of the Dracolich (waiting for the class to have fluff for that), but he's completed. Going the Claws + Body route he's fairly similar to a fighter, with some added DR, a list of immunities (although can't be revived if he dies and no unconscious buffer ), at-will out of combat healing, and natural armor to help make up for his worsened armor proficiencies. +12 to hit and 16 damage/hit on average. Not particularly optimized (thrown together gear), but something I could see one of my RL players building with this class.

    A Stag Beetle (CR 4) is a nasty opponent (23 damage/hit overcomes DR and needs a 13 to hit; while having more hit points) and would be a close fight (both will kill the other in 5 rounds on average); he has a slight advantage due to better initiative and power attack but it's still about a coin flip. Looking at this I swap Cleave for Combat Expertise which allows for a 5 point AC shift; he now needs a 12 to hit (7.92 dpr with crits; 8 rounds) but it needs a 18 (3.45 with crits; 12 rounds) a much better chance and full out of combat healing.

    Now let's look at a troll. CR 5; he needs a 4 to hit, giving him 14.96 damage/round (9.96 after regen); it needs 14, 14, 19 and deals ~7/round on average. This gives it the advantage (6 round KO versus 7 round) but only a slight one which a lucky crit could change. By using PA he can get +1.5 dpr (enough to make it 6 rounds) or by using Combat Expertise he can drop to 5.56 DPR and drop its DPR to ~2.1 DPR which he then readily defeats after a long dragged out fight.

    Advanced Megaraptor Skeleton (CR 6). He needs a 2 to hit, it needs a 14/19/19/19. He deals 10.45 DPR it deals 6.35. Of course again it has massively more hit points (78 to 43) it takes him 8 rounds on average to kill it and it only 7; their initiatives are equal. PAing for full gives him 14.7 DPR which will let him bring it down in 6 rounds on average (decent chance of 5), Combat Expertise for 1 and full PAing reduces its damage to ~5.7 while still allowing him 13.65 DRP (6 rounds vs 8). So he still has the advantage actually.

    Fighting 2 ogres they average less than 2 damage/round if he uses full Combat Expertise, he averages 9.68; takes them ~22 rounds to kill him, he kills one in 3.

    Lv 6 sees a big improvement; a ~66% increase to DPR with a full attack, the ability to perform a paralyzing touch (i.e. at-will Fort save or lose), and DR 3/MAGIC and bludgeoning. It'd also give him Shock Trooper which would have allowed for powerful charges; in a solo scenario Shock Trooper is a very bad idea on him and he'd have been better served with a feat other than Shock Trooper (even Weapon Specialization if he could take it as a fighter), but in a party situation it means he'd be able to deal a third or a half of a creature's health in an opening charge and he'd then be able to survive the return volley and switch to defense with a hurt enemy. Not great but something offensive.

    Overall, though, he has the same problems as a fighter. He can get the defenses to survive combat, but no way to force the foe to target him. He's contributing (all of these were full encounters for 5th level characters multiple of them ones that a solo character is supposed to have a 50/50 chance of death on), and with a party it's be more of "I'm getting swamped I use Combat Expertise" then a go to constant strategy; coupled with free out of combat healing it makes him a decent front-liner and you have the caster aspect for more varied/strategic play. That said I'd say make the DR start out as X/bludgeoning and magic, and give them Medium Armor proficiency at least by rank 3 or 4 of claws. I'd also give them Intimidate as a class skill, and choices for their weapons from Claws; I'd actually say just let them pick any 1-handed martial (or simple) weapon + shield or any 2-handed martial (or simple) weapon.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Since your ilness sees to have passed at last can i wring a PEACH out of you, please, pretty pretty please .

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Since your ilness sees to have passed at last can i wring a PEACH out of you, please, pretty pretty please .
    Zaydos will likely never be free of contest XVIII.

    Also, the new font is killing me right now.
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Alright...

    Dragon Priest Artifacts Rules:

    Rule 1: Your mask enchantments need to be able to replace items or this is a big problem.

    Rule 2: Complete meta-game construct; creates problems in wealth distribution, ESPECIALLY if the Dragon Priest is evil. Go with a required tithe of 90% of their wealth instead, it's a little better.

    Rule 3/4: No problems.

    Kahvozein's Fang: At what level is this "no material components at all"? Ok they get Resurrection so never, but eventually it is just how much Resurrection is discounted.

    Mask of Office: Will get to this.

    Staff of Power: Will be talked about in casting.

    Spellcasting:
    Metamagic Feat selection: Remove the part about disallowing them to pick up Metamagic feats with feats gained from Dragon Priest levels; it ends up feeling like a meta-game construct and not a good one.

    Spell DC: So free heighten spell, ok, acceptable, especially with dual casting stats. Problem here is basing it on Base Attack Bonus; it encourages the class to multiclass into Fighter or other full BAB classes to increase their Spell DCs above what is normally the cap for everyone.

    Caster Level: Same BAB based problem here. This one is actually likely to hurt you because... well assuming a +Cha race and being Venerable you'd have 30 Charisma tops at Lv 20 and that means abandoning your Wisdom.

    Bonus Spells: This means you're going to have a ton of 1st level spells most of them Magic Missile so you can just unload damage with staff casting. At the same time you actually likely have more bonus 6th level spells; it's only highest level spells where it matters though because...

    Spells Known: Better than Sorcerer or Bard, worse than a fixed list or Tier 1, your list is more varied than a fixed list but this is meh and move on.

    Staff Casting: This alone raises it to encounter breaking levels where the DM has to make it immune to your tricks. It's not Planar Ally abuse bad, but it is "breaks action economy into little mangled pieces" bad and more than makes up for no meta-magic. I'd advice capping the staff spells at 2 (equal to quicken + normal) or maximum 3. Already it can unload 4 save or lose (heightened) or 40d4+40 damage with only SR to protect you (Magic Missile) and it can do that at least 1/encounter without caring.

    Spell-like Abilities: Just going to note that with built in potential for crazy CL enhancements you don't want Blasphemy on the list; although realistically you're likely to be penalized CL.

    Ward: So Spell level times you just say no if it succeeded by 20% to 45%? This is actually a crazy powerful ability; it should be before you know the result, at least (probably before it is determined at all).

    Don't really like the Draconic Liche subtype or the funky things it does, and I must note that the Level Drain part does not work as written (Level Drain is applied 1 at a time when you try and save to remove Negative Levels and therefore can never reduce you below 1+1/4 HD except by reducing you to 0, since if you would have as many Negative Levels as hit dice you die instantly it still can't do that because you'd already be on your way to becoming a Wight).

    Hover is actually a decently useful utility power.

    Atronach Companion: An animal companion like ability might be appropriate, but if it is then it needs to come sooner and I'm really not sure it's needed with the suite of defenses and action economy breaking the class already has in addition to this...

    Flame Atronach: At Lv 20 this is 200 fire damage/round (touch attacks will be hitting), and nearly indestructible if you play smart.

    Frost Atronach: Only DR to ever get above 15 is DR /magic or /epic and typically even then only on CR 20+ creatures. The DR needs a heavy nerf. The AC bonus is also significant to make it rather crazy as a pet.

    Storm Atronach: 231 Electricity damage/round and DR 25/- (this puts it in the "Immune to most creatures in the Monster Manual" level); this needs a heavy nerf.

    All three options make animal companions cry, and tier 3 melee (short of uber charging warblade and crusader have difficulties doing this kind of damage, ubercharging has a ton of issues). They do make taking other levels to get free 11+ spell level save DCs and

    Mask Enhancements:
    1st: This more than covers WBL as a note.
    2nd: Improved Mettle should not be on there (it's heavy immunity to a lot of effects and coupled with Ward and Improved Evasion is pretty much immunity to anything allowing a save).
    3rd: DR is far too high for what other defensive things this class gets and just in general (monsters either rely on single attacks with low accuracy which ward shuts down, saves which you've already shut down, or many attacks dealing ~15 damage which this shuts down).
    4th: High Will + High Wis + Improved Mettle + Save Substitution Will.

    Fluff/Flavor: I can see what you're trying to do with Skyrim's dragonpriests but... Representing their wards and sudden buffing would be better done by allowing them to create some sort of ward weave wherein they combine several defensive spells then giving them the ability to cast 4 attack spells each round. Their staffs are closer to an eldritch blast style spammable attack than 4 save or dies. The whole cannot have other wealth thing just doesn't work as a character class ability. The atronachs are vastly overpowered as pet creatures and also just weird with the fluff since that wasn't common.

    The only real limiter this class has is it can only get a +2 enhancement bonus to its ability scores and its spell list is admittedly bad. Its atronach is more than enough to make up for both problems (being a more than fully powered character in and of itself). It will have issues at low levels (if WBL is enforced which is an oddity it will not get full plate till ~lv 8) but it's still as good as a sorcerer at that point with its heightened CL, and spells per day (assuming 14 Cha and 18 Wis); that would not push them towards save or loses thankfully. Once it gets the atronach its two fully functional characters, both with abilities that break the game numbers.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

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  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    hey temotei would you write some fluff for my entry pls? thx. kidding, of course, but according to my advisor i'm supposed to be working 70-hour weeks right now... not much time for fluff...
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Alright...

    Dragon Priest Artifacts Rules:

    Rule 1: [...]

    Rule 2: [...]

    Rule 3/4: No problems.
    This 'rule', you speak of. Sounds important. What is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    "What's this? A railroad? Well, we better cross it now, or the train will come along and sweep us down the tracks!"

    *kills important NPC, avoids entire planned out plot*

  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Xhosant View Post
    This 'rule', you speak of. Sounds important. What is it?
    Ones from the class; 1. no other magic items; 2. you only get 10% WBL; 3. No enchanting the three items; 4. they count as divine foci.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

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    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Ones from the class; 1. no other magic items; 2. you only get 10% WBL; 3. No enchanting the three items; 4. they count as divine foci.
    Oh, damn, thought it was a 'first stop checklist' or something for homebrew.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    "What's this? A railroad? Well, we better cross it now, or the train will come along and sweep us down the tracks!"

    *kills important NPC, avoids entire planned out plot*

  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    So it's time to exchanged fruits (PEACHes naturally, got a bit of a monkey in me), exchange NPCs, and I guess I'm taking requests for races to make more substitution levels for
    Could you by any chance do the cyber dragonkin class? Everything but modules is done, I still need to do that last part (which I'll probably do this weekend). I'd especially like to get feedback on the fluff and class features.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zweisteine View Post
    So the real question is, what is a Ling?

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Could you by any chance do the cyber dragonkin class? Everything but modules is done, I still need to do that last part (which I'll probably do this weekend). I'd especially like to get feedback on the fluff and class features.
    I can try once the modules are up; I will have to look over the PoC stuff, and note that I'm not actually particularly familiar with Incarnum (still can't figure out how to build Incarnates for example). Don't usually give much feedback on fluff (unless it relates to some other existing work or it's a matter of fluff-mechanic mismatch), it's so subjective, but I'll give it a shot.

    Edit: Looking over it, I'd advice against +13 Strength on full BAB even with +5 being inherent, but that's just capstone and sees less play and at a point where balance wavers the most wildly. Other than that I'd say some of the abilities could be spaced out a little more; you currently get +5 Strength over 5 levels (and then a big boost at 20th of another +8), +4 natural armor over 4 levels, and... well Integral Armor is the weakest of them and I'd advice starting it at +4 much earlier and maybe even letting it reach +8 by high-mid levels (10th). Greater Mage Armor, for example, is a 3rd level spell, and Inertial Armor for +8 AC is 9 PP. I'd also suggest giving the fly speed portion of draconic wings earlier. What I might actually do is reshuffle so you get say flight and Iron Jaws at an earlier level and move some of the Strength and Natural Armor gain to a higher level. Just to space things out and make it more of a you get better at these things that you've been developing for a while instead of "You've reached 16th level, you gain new attack forms each level for the next 4". I don't really know.

    Don't really have much to say about the fluff. Dragon obsessed transhumanism. I'd expect it to come up quite a bit this contest (my own flip-flopped between this and dragon worship). You might want to give them a module that lets them get trapfinding.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2014-09-04 at 08:09 PM.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Alright, done with stats and part of equipment for the Dragonsoul Acolyte, as posted in the Sinister Spire putting it here, too: http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetvie...heetid=1005621

    Also, Temotei, just noticed - the code you put up has the C in Class outside the size change - is that intentional, to make it bigger? Looks like: CLASS NAME, instead of CLASS NAME.
    Last edited by r2d2go; 2014-09-04 at 09:21 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Thanks made me realize the table wasn't clear on breath weapon increases (should be 3 dice + Charisma at 5th)
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydos View Post
    Thanks made me realize the table wasn't clear on breath weapon increases (should be 3 dice + Charisma at 5th)
    No problem Pretty well balanced for the power you're aiming for, I think. Haven't looked through all the dragons or anything but the class abilities and the dragons I looked through are all good. If you're done with the stats, I'd say mostly all you have left is polishing up the wording. You could probably buff it a bit, but no obvious problems as is

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by sirpercival View Post
    hey temotei would you write some fluff for my entry pls? thx. kidding, of course, but according to my advisor i'm supposed to be working 70-hour weeks right now... not much time for fluff...
    It makes me feel good that you would trust fluff to me.

    Also, bleugh at those hours. Those are all too common for my tastes. Good luck, man.

    Quote Originally Posted by r2d2go View Post
    Also, Temotei, just noticed - the code you put up has the C in Class outside the size change - is that intentional, to make it bigger? Looks like: CLASS NAME, instead of CLASS NAME.
    Definitely intentional.
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Madness Log; Addendum: I thought I had escaped, but alas the hounds... the hounds they chase me. I have begun rounding the walls, I believe they move through angles alone, but still the madness it is here. I have seen dwarves, elves, humans, and half-breeds succumb to it, succumb and become something not quite what they were. Even the sons of jinns, heroes of folk lore, bootleggers and prophets of doom have been unable to escape it. They come... they come for me.

    Translation: Added Racial Substitution levels for dwarves, elves, humans, half-elves, and half-orcs. Also decided as a lark to add theurgic feats for all the base classes I've won contests with.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    boomwolf's Avatar

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Dragons huh?

    Amusing, I was just working on dragon classes from another direction, a directory of construction of custom dragons that is to replace all the "true dragon" variants with a single, massively customizable entry that covers most if not all possible combination of dragon features.
    Just body types are split into 5-"classic", "arcane", "swift", "pit" and "brute", then 4 breath types-"cone", "line", "blast", and "furnace". the end result is intended to be the "infinite combination of dragons". (there are 20 combos before even entering into elements, and as I intend to have even the sum-elements like "radiant" "shadow" "negative" and the like in the mix, each with their own effects, it will end up huge. and then spellcasting enters the mix for classics and arcane dragons.)
    Though having them go up to level 40 and all might be spinning a bit out of hand for base classes :P

    Should I complete it in time (or at least ONE of the five breeds), am I allowed to enter these into the competition? its more of a racial class than a base class, but it DOES fit the theme...

    And yes, they will have 1HD as a point of start, although not recommended for use-it WILL exist.
    Last edited by boomwolf; 2014-09-06 at 08:45 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cormag81 View Post
    2117: No matter how good a debater I am out of character there is no way to logically get out of falling after your paladin kills his patron god.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Just put mine up - first homebrew posting on this site and (therefore) first posting in a competition! Will gladly trade PEACHes with anyone who's willing!
    Behold! The Monster Compendium

    My Homebrew.

    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
    Mine started with the intrepid heroes whisked away to a battle gauntlet in the sky by a mystery deity! It was meant to be strictly a playtest but quickly devolved.

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    Dragons huh?

    Amusing, I was just working on dragon classes from another direction, a directory of construction of custom dragons that is to replace all the "true dragon" variants with a single, massively customizable entry that covers most if not all possible combination of dragon features.
    Just body types are split into 5-"classic", "arcane", "swift", "pit" and "brute", then 4 breath types-"cone", "line", "blast", and "furnace". the end result is intended to be the "infinite combination of dragons". (there are 20 combos before even entering into elements, and as I intend to have even the sum-elements like "radiant" "shadow" "negative" and the like in the mix, each with their own effects, it will end up huge. and then spellcasting enters the mix for classics and arcane dragons.)
    Though having them go up to level 40 and all might be spinning a bit out of hand for base classes :P

    Should I complete it in time (or at least ONE of the five breeds), am I allowed to enter these into the competition? its more of a racial class than a base class, but it DOES fit the theme...

    And yes, they will have 1HD as a point of start, although not recommended for use-it WILL exist.
    Infinite is hard - you'll need to write stats for unlimited number of HD/levels if you want to go there, or some sort of other sliding scale that is infinitely divisible

    Lots of things going on, this is kinda on hold... I'll keep up with Sinister Spire though.

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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by boomwolf View Post
    Dragons huh?

    Amusing, I was just working on dragon classes from another direction, a directory of construction of custom dragons that is to replace all the "true dragon" variants with a single, massively customizable entry that covers most if not all possible combination of dragon features.
    Just body types are split into 5-"classic", "arcane", "swift", "pit" and "brute", then 4 breath types-"cone", "line", "blast", and "furnace". the end result is intended to be the "infinite combination of dragons". (there are 20 combos before even entering into elements, and as I intend to have even the sum-elements like "radiant" "shadow" "negative" and the like in the mix, each with their own effects, it will end up huge. and then spellcasting enters the mix for classics and arcane dragons.)
    Though having them go up to level 40 and all might be spinning a bit out of hand for base classes :P

    Should I complete it in time (or at least ONE of the five breeds), am I allowed to enter these into the competition? its more of a racial class than a base class, but it DOES fit the theme...

    And yes, they will have 1HD as a point of start, although not recommended for use-it WILL exist.
    It'll probably work. Up to level 20 for the base and then expand if you like, just like a base class.
    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread IV: All Your Base [Class] Are Belong to Us

    Quote Originally Posted by ezkajii View Post
    Just put mine up - first homebrew posting on this site and (therefore) first posting in a competition! Will gladly trade PEACHes with anyone who's willing!
    Alright; warning it's past 3 AM so a little rambly.

    Fluff: I'm not really getting why the non-extreme alignment clause. I can kind of get the "balance of all dragons" concept, but with Io's position as the Ninefold Dragon who is all alignments but none (and the source of all dragons) it seems odd, especially coupled with how all Core true dragons are of extreme alignments.

    Class itself:

    Hit Dice: Honestly I'd rather see d12 here and less Con bonuses. They're ultimately a melee class, or pushed a little towards it (Powerful Build + Unarmed Strike) and they're really squishy until around 8th level (+4 Con to give them 10s) and then crazy hit point pools by 20th (+10 Con). I'd cut it to +6 Con over 20, dropping their Fort save by 2, and increase hit dice to d10 or d12 (the former increasing Lv 20 hp by 2, the latter by 24).

    Skills: Personally I'm one of those people who hate 2 + Int off of Int based classes. Also why Handle Animal? Or more why Handle Animal and not Knowledge (Nature)?

    Chassis: Good BAB, good Will. I'd say below average but can work, looking through them I was expecting good Fort as well, but their +10 Con gives them effectively Good Fort so it's probably a good choice.

    Weapon/Armor: Ok, fully capable proficiencies although you have to choose melee or range. Leaves you needing 1 feat to really make use of Medium armor, but you might do that where you wouldn't 2 feats.

    Unarmed Damage: Ought to note that the table is for Medium size. But 2 bonus feats (in effect), but ones that might not (quite likely not to) see any use depending upon build, does open up for Snap Kick goodness.

    Spells: ~ Bard casting from the Sorc list. Kind of curious about the early access Make Whole, and will note that Limited Wish lets them cast their entire spell list in effect so is probably a must take.

    Draconic Enhancement: +4 Strength, +10 Constitution, +3 Int/Wis/Cha. The Strength bonus is reasonable by 20th on a melee combatant, half of Mighty Rage has so upsides and some downsides. The Con in effect gives them d16 HD and Good Fort, not unreasonable but I still dislike the massive change in durability from 1st level (squishy rogue level) to high levels (hp tank++), not because it gets too high, but because it starts so low; at the very least I'd up their HD to d8s. The mental ability score bonuses are nice, helping to make up for low Skill Points and MAD a little by bolstering a poor Charisma.

    Overland Movement: I meant to include this in Dragon Form, *shrugs* DSA gets enough already. Regardless nice touch.

    Draconic Resistances: Some of them are odd (disease/poison/planar traits) but none are unbalanced or completely ridiculous. Poison is a fairly common dragon immunity (not so much disease) and between their elemental subtypes, gem dragons, and planar dragons the planar traits part makes sense.

    Powerful Build: Nice Lv 3 ability, helps make them relevant before 2nd level spells.

    Keen Senses: Scent is the best of these. I was a little surprised to see it double since I didn't even think true dragons got scent (checking they don't), but it's a nice ability and they really should (Smaug and Bilbo). I'd actually be tempted to move this down a little. The 9th level doubling of senses is again nice, not a big bonus (except again for scent) but far from useless. Blindsense is also pretty useful when you get it, a step up from scent but you know that already.

    Bonus Feat: Shot-on-the-Run without prereqs is nice. Power Attack is the other really good one. Flyby Attack could be with their access to the Fly spell but I worry it has to compete with so many other 2nd level spells for slots (especially Wraithstrike).

    Speed Bonus: Reasonable, a bit of a monk feel to this class.

    Specialize Adaptations:

    Cave Dragon: Either quite good, or quite useless (if you can burrow burrow is awesome, but you often can't). Advanced Adaptation is eventually obsoleted but a great sensory method for 4 levels.

    Mountain Dragon: Climb speed is nice and when it's useful useful. You can also use this to get up out of melee range, in theory, to lob spells so that's something. Advanced Adaptation needs to be at least as a monk of your level.

    Sage Dragon: Probably the best adaptation. Immunity to Mind-Affecting at 10th is pretty early and I've seen people say it's too early as late as 13th. Normally I'd peg this as a ~12-15 level ability. The save bonus is also pretty useful and more likely to show up than say a burrow speed and when you need it it's so good.

    Nimble Dragon: I'd make the Freedom of Movement effect Su myself. It's a strong effect at 10th level, but not unreasonable; as a note 3/day with full duration should see it up whenever it matters. The basic one is also good and depending upon DM I might end up with this as my first one.

    Water Dragon: I'd say this one is worse than the Mountain Dragon or Cave Dragon. I'd up the Swim speed to Land speed. Even then without water breathing a swim speed is only so-so

    Massive Dragon: The weakest. Wind effects just aren't common, and +50% weight is more likely a disadvantage than an advantage.

    Brilliant Dragon: Unless you're undead the advanced is obsoleted by Sage Dragon's (all patterns are mind-affecting). The beginning is decent but unlikely to come up often. I'd say this is the 2nd worst.

    I'd probably go Sage/Nimble/Water/Cave or Mountain; the first two could switch and the last three could rearrange as well, though.

    Damage Reduction: I am personally never a fan of DR 20. Here this will put some monsters' attacks down flat (pit fiends), mildly impact a balor, and do nothing to a dragon. That said it's a reasonable ability because it can be overcome. Gets a lot stronger at 16th and 19th as it pushes past the damage threshold for attacks (i.e. a lot of attacks do not deal more damage than this past this level) where as before that most creatures will be able to power through it at least.

    SR: Reasonable amount. Might drop this to 8th level, as it is (relatively) empty.

    Frightful Presence: I'd drop the range to 15-ft per level, it feels odd they get it larger than Great Wyrms, and leave the hit dice for panicked at 5 flat. But this is more thematic reasons than power level.

    Crush: Rather meh, but it fills the level. Should note the save DC.

    Draconic Aging: Like Timeless Body this ability can get problematic, actually far worse than timeless body. In actual play it shouldn't be problematic unless somebody is playing a several century old elan. The DM will just need to say "no, you can't start as someone who has been 15th level in this class for 900 years" outside of that.


    Draconic Prestige: Save DC should be normal (10 +1/2 level + Cha mod). Even then I'd say it should be like sanctuary and if you've attacked them then they don't need a save, at least if you've attempted lethal force yourself.

    Draconic Ascension: Mechanically almost a non-ability, and possibly a debuff depending upon how much you like Enlarge Person, but fits thematically.

    Overall: Looks fairly balanced. Looks like it'd have power curve issues with really weak lower levels and then... well tier 3 higher levels, you might want to give them Scent at Lv 2, and d8 hit dice to help this a bit, as at the moment until Lv 3 they're a bad Warrior. Maybe move 1st level spells or powerful build down to 2nd level. Other than that it checks out pretty well, although Draconic Prestige bothers me (specifically the heightened DC + ability to attack with level force and not be responded to in kind especially without it being mind-affecting).

    Hope this helps a bit, looks real nice for a first try at homebrew.
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

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