League of legends LXI: Demaglia!

[Don Julio Anejo]

Problem is, a video game isn't a sport that hasn't changed for 100+ years. People have been playing soccer, football, basketball, hockey, etc, for 150+ years each, and the sport isn't going anywhere. League has the problem of being a video game. At some point, it will go away. For one reason or another, people will stop playing it (it's old and boring).. a new game will come out (what LoL did to Dota).. an update will come out and everyone will hate it (Halo 4 multiplayer ruined the Halo franchise for many people).

When any of these happen, fans will jump ship. There might not be a core League fan following 5 years from now the same way there is in hockey.

In regular sports, people are both fans of a hometeam (i.e. Vancouver Canucks), and of random teams they might like for some reason (I also like Detroit Red Wings for their classy attitude and clean, efficient play), and Ovechkin/Crosby/etc have their own major fanbases. If Caps trade Ovechkin, a Caps fan will be sad, but will stay a Caps fan (and will watch games, buy jerseys and yell loudly in bars).

In League, teams are arbitrary. TSM is made up of 5 players as determined by whoever TSM could sign, and TSM is probably the most institutionally established team out there, centered around Reginald. Doublelift, Bjergsen, Shiphtur, etc, have their own fan following. But beyond the star players and the top few LCS teams like TSM, DIG and CLG, everyone else is pretty much interchangeable. There's nothing special about Coast, or Evil Geniuses, or even Complexity. They're just a group of 5 nerds playing a video game that are mostly there to fill up the league, so TSM, DIG and CLG can play someone else except each other. Fans have nothing to cheer for, and no reason to follow the filler teams.

I'd much rather cheer for a Vancouver team made up of D1-D3 players playing like Chudley Cannons than seeing Complexity sweep worlds (*cough*).

Problem is, in the current format, this can't happen - LCS teams are generally top ranked 5s teams, who are, basically.. 5 nerds playing a video game. It's good for competition, because only the best teams make it to the top, and the barrier to entry is really low compared to traditional teams. It is, however, bad for viewer engagement, since the teams come and go. All other eSports that I know of function the same way.

For these reasons, I honestly feel that eSports can't succeed long-term with a single game. LCS will go away as soon as people get tired of League, irregardless of its viability as a competitive platform.

As for short player careers, a lot of it comes from the fact that the game changes way too quickly for individual players to stay at the top. Nerf assassins enough, and even Faker will be dethroned when he's forced to play champions like Lux or Annie, that have a lot less micro and outplay potential compared to Zed and LeBlanc. When most players retire, this is basically what's happening, though slower. They might be good in a specific meta on specific champions... The same way you never want to have Ovechkin play on New Jersey Devils or Minnesota Wilds because he just isn't suited for boring, defensively responsible trap hockey with backchecking forwards. He needs to get to the net and mess things up. Same thing in League, except the changes can compound with various patches to force top players out of their comfort zone to a place where they're no longer the top players.

[ex cathedra]

In League, teams are arbitrary. TSM is made up of 5 players as determined by whoever TSM could sign, and TSM is probably the most institutionally established team out there, centered around Reginald. Doublelift, Bjergsen, Shiphtur, etc, have their own fan following. But beyond the star players and the top few LCS teams like TSM, DIG and CLG, everyone else is pretty much interchangeable. There's nothing special about Coast, or Evil Geniuses, or even Complexity. They're just a group of 5 nerds playing a video game that are mostly there to fill up the league, so TSM, DIG and CLG can play someone else except each other. Fans have nothing to cheer for, and no reason to follow the filler teams.

EG has an immense following, as do many other middle-of-the-road teams. If fans have no reason to cheer for teams that aren't winners, why do CLG, Curse, and Dignitas have fanbases? If fans have no reason to cheer for teams that aren't historically established, why does LMQ have a fanbase?

CLG have maintained a fanbase despite losing hotshot, jiji, and saint. dignitas have maintained a fanbase despite losing scarra, patoy, iwd, and voyboy. tsm has maintained a fanbase despite losing everyone except dyrus. how is this any different than your Caps example? how is rooting for a hometown any more or less arbitrary than rooting for TSM? i find that any connection a person has to a "hometown" team tends to be largely imagined. there's nothing wrong with liking a team for no real reason, though.

I'd much rather cheer for a Vancouver team made up of D1-D3 players playing like Chudley Cannons than seeing Complexity sweep worlds (*cough*).

is this even english

Problem is, in the current format, this can't happen - LCS teams are generally top ranked 5s teams, who are, basically.. 5 nerds playing a video game. It's good for competition, because only the best teams make it to the top, and the barrier to entry is really low compared to traditional teams. It is, however, bad for viewer engagement, since the teams come and go. All other eSports that I know of function the same way.

please elaborate. the ranked 5s ladder actually has very little to do with modern LCS teams. and how do teams come and go? CLG, TSM, frost, blaze, and sword are all painfully obvious examples of teams who have maintained popularity and at least some relevance despite time, slumps (most modern CLG fans haven't even been around long enough to know what it's like for their team to not suck), and roster changes.

For these reasons, I honestly feel that eSports can't succeed long-term with a single game. LCS will go away as soon as people get tired of League, irregardless of its viability as a competitive platform.

if brood war lasted a decade in a world in which esports was much less widespread than it is now, i don't see how it's unreasonable for another game to last as long or longer, especially if it's a game with a rapid patch cycle and a constant influx of new players.

[Math_Mage]

Spoiler: LCS

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CLG late game plan: Doublelift frontline

[Olinser]

Spoiler: LCS

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CLG late game plan: Doublelift frontline

My reaction to that dive was:

Spoiler

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DOUBLELIFT WTF ARE YOU DOING!?!?!?!?!?

I mean, he was WAY out in front (and trying to assassinate somebody like that with a Zilean on their side is pretty dumb to begin with). Absolute best that was going to result in both Doublelift and Voyboy going down - which is NOT a good trade for CLG.

I said it flat out as soon as he did that - Doublelift just lost the game.

[ex cathedra]

Spoiler

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clg would be a decent team if they had a better ADC

[Don Julio Anejo]

EG has an immense following, as do many other middle-of-the-road teams. If fans have no reason to cheer for teams that aren't winners, why do CLG, Curse, and Dignitas have fanbases? If fans have no reason to cheer for teams that aren't historically established, why does LMQ have a fanbase?

LMQ impressed a lot of fans (myself included) with their humbleness, which contrasts a lot of NA players, who are often flaming douchebags with a huge ego. They were also extremely approachable and tried their best to fit in and be included, despite speaking almost no English. LMQ's story also feels like something out of a sports movie with the underdogs rags-to-riches story, like the Jamaican Bobsleigh team.

To contrast, look at Quantic, who brought over a bunch of Koreans with the attitude of "lol u guyz suck kekeke."

CLG have maintained a fanbase despite losing hotshot, jiji, and saint. dignitas have maintained a fanbase despite losing scarra, patoy, iwd, and voyboy. tsm has maintained a fanbase despite losing everyone except dyrus. how is this any different than your Caps example? how is rooting for a hometown any more or less arbitrary than rooting for TSM? i find that any connection a person has to a "hometown" team tends to be largely imagined. there's nothing wrong with liking a team for no real reason, though.[/quote]
Hence my example of CLG, DIG and TSM as the only more or less established teams. I also think we have a slightly different definition of having a following. A guy that watches his team's every game, travels to road games/playoffs whenever he can make time/afford it and buys merchandise is a hardcore fan. A guy that roots for a team for whatever reason, but doesn't care much until they make the playoffs is a bandwagon fan. I honestly don't know about much of a following for Curse or Complexity, they honestly just seem like teams to fill up space.

Hometown isn't arbitrary. It's the "Us vs. Them" mentality, and the main reasons sports are popular. Few people watch sports for the strategy, nice plays, or the game. People watch sports to win, or at least cheer. It's scientifically suggested (I can provide references if you wish) that sports fill the same societal needs as low-intensity village-on-village warfare did in prehistoric times, and village-on-village brawls did in the middle ages. The feeling of coming over to your kinda-neighbours and beating the crap out of them for a testosterone high. Hell, even keeping up with the Joneses works on a similar principle from a biology standpoint.

is this even english

Uhm.. Chudley Cannons are Ron Weasey's favourite Quidditch team, best known for their complete and total inability to win anything. It's a Harry Potter reference.

Therefore, I would much prefer to have a sucky hometown team to cheer for, than a bunch of basically random teams I have no association with.

please elaborate. the ranked 5s ladder actually has very little to do with modern LCS teams. and how do teams come and go? CLG, TSM, frost, blaze, and sword are all painfully obvious examples of teams who have maintained popularity and at least some relevance despite time, slumps (most modern CLG fans haven't even been around long enough to know what it's like for their team to not suck), and roster changes.

Ranked 5s ladder is a way for non-LCS teams to make it in through sheer skill (re: LMQ), something you can't do in major sports. Yes, they were a professional team before, but they didn't relocate here as one.

if brood war lasted a decade in a world in which esports was much less widespread than it is now, i don't see how it's unreasonable for another game to last as long or longer, especially if it's a game with a rapid patch cycle and a constant influx of new players.

Brood War had the advantage of barely changing compared to League. It also had the advantage of being a pioneer of sorts - it was THE game to play if you wanted to go pro at some point, which kept up a lot of interest. Also, I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly certain it was artificially propped up by one of the Korean organizations through TV deals and the like. League is a lot more organic in its growth as a game (though it's propped up just as much as an eSport by Riot).

[ex cathedra]

Uhm.. Chudley Cannons are Ron Weasey's favourite Quidditch team, best known for their complete and total inability to win anything. It's a Harry Potter reference.

the more you know.

contrasts a lot of NA players, who are often flaming douchebags with a huge ego

To contrast, look at Quantic, who brought over a bunch of Koreans with the attitude of "lol u guyz suck kekeke."

I honestly don't know about much of a following for Curse or Complexity, they honestly just seem like teams to fill up space.

i find that all of these statements, as well as many in your previous post, honestly just sound very ignorant. at least one of them is half self-admittedly ignorant.

Brood War had the advantage of barely changing compared to League. It also had the advantage of being a pioneer of sorts - it was THE game to play if you wanted to go pro at some point, which kept up a lot of interest. Also, I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly certain it was artificially propped up by one of the Korean organizations through TV deals and the like. League is a lot more organic in its growth as a game (though it's propped up just as much as an eSport by Riot).

is not changing really an advantage? league's patch cycle stops the game from stagnating and, in conjunction with its free-to-play nature, produces a constant stream of new players that keep the game popular. every game loses players eventually. league has the advantage of being able to replenish them. how does televising something count as artificially increasing its popularity?
edit:

Hometown isn't arbitrary. It's the "Us vs. Them" mentality, and the main reasons sports are popular. Few people watch sports for the strategy, nice plays, or the game. People watch sports to win, or at least cheer. It's scientifically suggested (I can provide references if you wish) that sports fill the same societal needs as low-intensity village-on-village warfare did in prehistoric times, and village-on-village brawls did in the middle ages. The feeling of coming over to your kinda-neighbours and beating the crap out of them for a testosterone high. Hell, even keeping up with the Joneses works on a similar principle from a biology standpoint.

Therefore, I would much prefer to have a sucky hometown team to cheer for, than a bunch of basically random teams I have no association with.

that's a nice anecdote but i'm absolutely certain that it isn't shared by every fan of sports, physical or digital. teams like the yankees or the lakers have fanbases that are far, far larger than they could be if they could only draw fans from "home-town" regions, and the lack of regional affiliation might bother you but it certainly hasn't hindered TSM & friends.

[TechnOkami]

I'd like to note that as a former football player and a guy who did sports until I realized I didn't enjoy them, I didn't really get the whole "favorite team omg gotta watch" or generally being part of a fandom in terms of liking a sport, until League of Legends. I understand what's going on during the game, I play AND enjoy the game, and I dunno, I don't get that with sports.

Personally I'd rather go to an E-Sports Bar and drink n' watch a League of Legends Pro Match any day of the week vs an irl sport, unless it's the Olympics.

[Ionbound]

See, I think that's what E-Sports are missing. If there were esport bars, expose would increase, it would be easier to catch games, and it would be seen as more of a sociable activity, rather than just something fat, sweaty nerds do/watch. Note that I do view esports as a social thing, but I'm just trying to provide an image of what the media thinks.

[TechnOkami]

See, I think that's what E-Sports are missing. If there were esport bars, expose would increase, it would be easier to catch games, and it would be seen as more of a sociable activity, rather than just something fat, sweaty nerds do/watch. Note that I do view esports as a social thing, but I'm just trying to provide an image of what the media thinks.

But... but I AM a fat sweaty nerd! D:

[ex cathedra]

See, I think that's what E-Sports are missing. If there were esport bars, expose would increase, it would be easier to catch games, and it would be seen as more of a sociable activity, rather than just something fat, sweaty nerds do/watch. Note that I do view esports as a social thing, but I'm just trying to provide an image of what the media thinks.

they're becoming more popular, especially in major population centers, but that's the sort of thing that will just take more time.

[Math_Mage]

Spoiler

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clg would be a decent team if they had a better ADC

CLG would be a decent team if they had strategies. And a top laner.

[ex cathedra]

CLG would be a decent team if they had strategies. And a top laner.

as a revision to my earlier comment and a response to yours:

would they, tho?

[Math_Mage]

as a revision to my earlier comment and a response to yours:

would they, tho?

Yes. CLG loses because they half-ass the "make our carries Doublelift awesome" strategy, let the top laner lose (which he was going to do anyway), and can't win unless the enemy team throws fights or rotations. They got this far because NA teams throw a lot.

Spoiler: LCS

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I mean, look at this game. They've made top lane into double support. Their great initiator is Eve, and their poke is miserable. How exactly do they expect to win this game?

[Farix]

Spoiler: Curse vs CLG

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CLG vs Curse: As a CLG fan, I'm calling a 0-3 Curse win. That way I can't be disappointed right? Right? right?

******* called it.

[ex cathedra]

Spoiler: Curse vs CLG

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******* called it.

Curse 2, CLG 3. CLG's had trouble against Curse, but I think their greater overall skill and time with Monte will have them winning and going on to face LMQ.

emphasis mine

[Dusk Eclipse]

By any chance does anyone has a link to CLG vs. Curse game 1? My usual up loader only has Game 2 up for some reason

Edit: Never mind, they just uploaded game 1.... why did the upload game 2 an hour before game 1 I have no idea

[Math_Mage]

These guys have vods of things.

[Winthur]

Spoiler

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reginald got hacked by efdf

[Dusk Eclipse]

These guys have vods of things.

Thanks, I ought to start using the League Reddit.

[TFT]

Spoiler: CLG vs CRS

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CLG, why do you always have to do this to me.

[ex cathedra]

Spoiler: CLG vs CRS

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CLG, why do you always have to do this to me.

https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/503668638009012224
https://twitter.com/CandyPandalol/st...50278777028608
https://twitter.com/ggCMonteCristo/s...59211162595329

[TFT]

https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/503668638009012224
https://twitter.com/CandyPandalol/st...50278777028608
https://twitter.com/ggCMonteCristo/s...59211162595329

I did say always. T.T

[Winthur]

official clg fan song

[Ashen Lilies]

This thread.

[Farix]

official clg fan song

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[MBI]

Oh hey, this thread is a thing. I think last time I posted here, It was mid/late season 3 and I had just placed Bronze 4. Kinda surprised that my name is still in the first post, to be honest.

So, what the heck do you guys talk about these days? From the looks of this thread, it's the eSports scene at the moment.

[Winthur]

monkeyboyinc

nothing much reginald :^)

[MBI]

nothing much reginald :^)

There's probably a in-joke I'm not getting here...

[TFT]

There's probably a in-joke I'm not getting here...

Andy "ReginaId" Dinh, former LCS player and current manager for the pro team TSM, has a face that is often compared to a monkey.

Your name is monkeyboyinc.

Therefore, Winthur is a terrible person and should feel bad for making that comparison.

Also, apparently my name is still TFT Supports on the list of forum names/ league IGNs thing and needs to be fixed.