Dragon Age 3 III: Where Is Your Maker Now?

[Beowulf DW]

A continuation of the discussion of all things Dragon Age, since we kind of hit 50 pages with the last one.

But they refer to what you're calling "abilities" as talents (for physical classes) or spells (for mages). I had forgotten that attributes is the normal name for stats, but that just means that "abilities" isn't the normal name for either.

So, which is it, then ? A bonus stat point would be very weak, but a bonus talent/spell would be quite strong. Probably the strongest racial bonus overall, easily stronger than the Elf and Dwarf ones.

I'm almost positive that in this case it means that we get an extra spell/talent/whatever else the ability trees might offer us. Anything else would simply be far too weak compared to the others.

[Morty]

The Strength, Dex etc. attributes are dreadfully dull and should just be ditched. I also expect humans to get an extra spell or talent, although that on the other hand looks too good in comparison. I guess it didn't occur to them to give the non-human races something actually exciting.

[Beowulf DW]

I'm looking at a few of those leaked images from Dragon Age Keep, and it seems like they may very well have included just about every choice you can make in the first two games.

Did you Cammen and Ghenta together?
Did you feed the prisoner at Ostagar?

They've included so many of the seemingly inconsequential tidbits, and I love it. It's those little side quests that helped us define who and what our Wardens and Champions were.

[Cristo Meyers]

I'm looking at a few of those leaked images from Dragon Age Keep, and it seems like they may very well have included just about every choice you can make in the first two games.

Did you Cammen and Ghenta together?
Did you feed the prisoner at Ostagar?

They've included so many of the seemingly inconsequential tidbits, and I love it. It's those little side quests that helped us define who and what our Wardens and Champions were.

If you can remember them all...

There's going to be some way to upload your old save to the Keep and have it fill this stuff out rather than manually fixing every little detail, right? Because there's no freaking way I can remember everything that happened even in my favorite playthrough.

[Psyren]

Urgh, really? Even feeding the prisoner?

I appreciate the completeness but I can't imagine that all of that stuff will matter, and I don't want to fill out a tax return just so I can import properly.

Doubtful. +1 to one stat isn't a big bonus in Dragon Age, at least in the games so far. The Qunari health bonus is almost certainly as good as at least several points in constitution (in DA2 it would be equivalent to 10 points, not sure exactly in Origins), and while the other two are situational, I'd bet they're more helpful in those situations than +1 to any given stat is most of the time.

I'm assuming "ability point" means "talent point" - though honestly, even if they take it to mean "attribute point" I still have a feeling it will be worth more than the other racials. They outright said here that humans rule, and that has been the case historically as well.

[Cristo Meyers]

Urgh, really? Even feeding the prisoner?

I appreciate the completeness but I can't imagine that all of that stuff will matter, and I don't want to fill out a tax return just so I can import properly.

If you completed quest 4a for the Mage's Guild, please fill out Form 400EZ...

[Beowulf DW]

If you completed quest 4a for the Mage's Guild, please fill out Form 400EZ...

To be fair, at least there are pretty pictures to keep our spirits up.

[Dienekes]

The fact that some of the pictures has one big decision and others seemed to be filled with many makes me hope that there is a "Big Decisions" section for stuff that matters a lot (Killing Anders, Leaving Morrigan with the Demonbaby, that stuff) with the option to go further and pick up even the nitty gritty details if you're so inclined. Though I may be looking at it wrong as the images I'm looking at are pretty small.

[Cristo Meyers]

The fact that some of the pictures has one big decision and others seemed to be filled with many makes me hope that there is a "Big Decisions" section for stuff that matters a lot (Killing Anders, Leaving Morrigan with the Demonbaby, that stuff) with the option to go further and pick up even the nitty gritty details if you're so inclined. Though I may be looking at it wrong as the images I'm looking at are pretty small.

I hope so. I'll already likely have to go back into each save just to remember some of the major stuff. We're talking playthroughs that are nearly 5 years old by now. I'd really rather not have to dig through 5 year-old playthroughs to find out whether or not Selene cured that Halla...

[Beowulf DW]

I hope so. I'll already likely have to go back into each save just to remember some of the major stuff. We're talking playthroughs that are nearly 5 years old by now. I'd really rather not have to dig through 5 year-old playthroughs to find out whether or not Selene cured that Halla...

I have a very good memory when it comes to stories and games, so I fortunately don't quite have that problem.

Also, I kind of decided to replay the first two games to get me back into the swing of things (on act 3 of DA2 now).

However, I'd recommend simply keeping in mind what your Warden/Champion was like and work from there. If you played a royal bastard, pick bastardly outcomes, etc.

[Cristo Meyers]

I have a very good memory when it comes to stories and games, so I fortunately don't quite have that problem.

Also, I kind of decided to replay the first two games to get me back into the swing of things (on act 3 of DA2 now).

However, I'd recommend simply keeping in mind what your Warden/Champion was like and work from there. If you played a royal bastard, pick bastardly outcomes, etc.

I've got a pretty high-level idea of what my 5 DA:O playthroughs were like (Daylen was a bastard, Selene was a paladin, Des slept with everyone, Cerina hated everyone, and then there's Hagrid and Fang...), but get into the nitty-gritty and I'm probably lost. My memory for DA2 is about the same (Melisandre was a psychopath, Jean snarked at everyone, Robyn slept with everyone [sensing a pattern here...], and Matthew was the stupidest man to live in Kirkwall).

I'm sure that looking through the quest journal would give me most of the details, it's just a pain. Could be kinda interesting though, like re-reading an old story. We'll see.

[Giggling Ghast]

I think that the amount of detail you put into the Keep is ultimately up to you. You can be exacting or just fill in the broad strokes.

Myself, I basically remember everything I did, so I'll probably be spending a few hours with this thing.

[Psyren]

If you forget individual details (e.g. "Gave Bella the tavern? Who the heck is Bella?"), the wiki is your friend.

[Legato Endless]

If you can remember them all...

There's going to be some way to upload your old save to the Keep and have it fill this stuff out rather than manually fixing every little detail, right? Because there's no freaking way I can remember everything that happened even in my favorite playthrough.

No, there's no way to upload. Honestly I'll probably just go through and create a couple files so I have every major divergence accounted for. The odd thing is that not every choice will matter or manifest, but they want them logged anyway for future titles. Possibly polling the fans for future input? I hope they publish the keep results. The metrics for mass effect 2 choices were pretty interesting. 80% of players never woke Grunt up?

Online only? PC purchase it is. My console friend without live is going to explode when she hears this.

I'm kind of dissapointed about the lack of character creator. Bit less tragic for Thr fully voices Hawke, but potentially seeing a (visually) generic warden is going to be disconcerting.

[Zevox]

The Strength, Dex etc. attributes are dreadfully dull and should just be ditched.

Never going to happen. Can you imagine the outcry from the purists if they did such a thing? That's a far more significant change than anything they did in DA2.

I'm assuming "ability point" means "talent point" - though honestly, even if they take it to mean "attribute point" I still have a feeling it will be worth more than the other racials. They outright said here that humans rule, and that has been the case historically as well.

And you take that to mean they will have the most powerful racial traits in a mechanical sense? Uh, no. Even before getting into simple gameplay/story separation stuff there, it's a reference to Humans being the most numerous race and controlling the most territory out of the world, not to them being individually the most powerful. Pretty sure Qunari would take the crown in that category lore-wise, no matter how the mechanics end up working out.

[Psyren]

And you take that to mean they will have the most powerful racial traits in a mechanical sense? Uh, no. Even before getting into simple gameplay/story separation stuff there, it's a reference to Humans being the most numerous race and controlling the most territory out of the world, not to them being individually the most powerful. Pretty sure Qunari would take the crown in that category lore-wise, no matter how the mechanics end up working out.

You're thinking too narrowly. On an unconscious level they will want to give humans the best racial because that fits the world they have created, just like humans ruled the roost in ME. They made us out-biotic Asari, out-tech Salarians, and out-fight Krogan, and that is carrying over to DA as well.

So, my thought is - if "ability point" = "free talent" that is an obvious win - you get to the powerful stuff faster or you get to splash something nifty at low levels, like grabbing Heal from Creation on a primarily offensive mage. But even if it just means "attribute point" (which I doubt, but anyway), they will design it in such a way that that one point will work out to be more valuable than what the other races get. Perhaps at low levels, +50 HP or +25% range defense might be really good, but I'm willing to bet the latter will scale poorly while the former doesn't scale at all. Perhaps +1 magic will provide more defense than either of those other two in the long run (when combined with the right spell) or +1 Str will give comparable defensive benefits with a shield while also boosting DPS.

But again, I personally think it is the "talent point" option.

[Zevox]

You're thinking too narrowly. On an unconscious level they will want to give humans the best racial because that fits the world they have created, just like humans ruled the roost in ME. They made us out-biotic Asari, out-tech Salarians, and out-fight Krogan, and that is carrying over to DA as well.

...except that they didn't do that. Jack might have been more powerful than normal Asari biotics, but that's about the only thing fitting those descriptions that comes to mind, and there was never an indication that she was above more powerful Asari biotics. Save Commander Shepherd, but that's because making the player character super-special is part of their modus operandi.

But even if it just means "attribute point" (which I doubt, but anyway), they will design it in such a way that that one point will work out to be more valuable than what the other races get.

I sincerely doubt that.

[Psyren]

...except that they didn't do that. Jack might have been more powerful than normal Asari biotics, but that's about the only thing fitting those descriptions that comes to mind, and there was never an indication that she was above more powerful Asari biotics. Save Commander Shepherd, but that's because making the player character super-special is part of their modus operandi.

N7 says hi.

I sincerely doubt that.

k

[Morty]

Never going to happen. Can you imagine the outcry from the purists if they did such a thing? That's a far more significant change than anything they did in DA2.

Unfortunately, yes. I mean, they could just replace attributes with consistent bonuses for each class, and it'd be the same thing. But, like you said, the cry of outrage would be deafening.

[Dienekes]

If you forget individual details (e.g. "Gave Bella the tavern? Who the heck is Bella?"), the wiki is your friend.

Yeah, I'll be honest. I'm not going to go through hours of reading random crap from the wiki for every minor detail I have forgotten. That sounds like annoying busy work, and I do that enough at my job.

[Zevox]

N7 says hi.

So what about it? It's the Alliance's elite soldiers program. It's not like the other races lack things like that - we know about Asari Commandos and Justicars plus the Salarian STG, and there's no way the Turians don't have something along those lines. And the Krogan don't seem to need one, with the way their species and culture function.

[Psyren]

Yeah, I'll be honest. I'm not going to go through hours of reading random crap from the wiki for every minor detail I have forgotten. That sounds like annoying busy work, and I do that enough at my job.

Then you'll have to spitball/christmas tree it

So what about it? It's the Alliance's elite soldiers program. It's not like the other races lack things like that - we know about Asari Commandos and Justicars plus the Salarian STG, and there's no way the Turians don't have something along those lines. And the Krogan don't seem to need one, with the way their species and culture function.

So, they are capable of feats matching even the most elite members of other races. Like generating annihilation fields (valkyries), or biotic teleportation, or creating AI soldiers and fabricating grenades in the field etc. Even the Reapers became fascinated with us.

To put it in a more puerile way - humans rule, aliens drool.

[Zevox]

So, they are capable of feats matching even the most elite members of other races. Like generating annihilation fields (valkyries), or biotic teleportation, or creating AI soldiers and fabricating grenades in the field etc. Even the Reapers became fascinated with us.

To put it in a more puerile way - humans rule, aliens drool.

How you get from "humans have elite soldiers too, just like everyone else" to "humans rule, aliens drool," I'll never know.

Also, the Reapers became fascinated with Commander Shepherd specifically. Which, again, is because part of Bioware's MO is to make the player character a particularly special individual.

[Psyren]

How you get from "humans have elite soldiers too, just like everyone else" to "humans rule, aliens drool," I'll never know.

Also, the Reapers became fascinated with Commander Shepherd specifically. Which, again, is because part of Bioware's MO is to make the player character a particularly special individual.

Did you skip Mass Effect 2? They specially targeted all of humanity, not just Shepard.

And I got to humans rule because they equal every race at their specific specialty. On par biotically with elite Asari/Drell? Check. On par technically with elite Quarians/Salarians? Check. On par militarily with Turians/Krogan? Check.

Cerberus took this a step further, turning human civilians into shock troopers capable of decimating rank and file troops from every race, but the potential was always there.

[Zevox]

Did you skip Mass Effect 2? They specially targeted all of humanity, not just Shepard.

Only because Shepard piqued their interest, however. They're assuming that there's something special about the species because Shepard is human.

And I got to humans rule because they equal every race at their specific specialty. On par biotically with elite Asari/Drell? Check. On par technically with elite Quarians/Salarians? Check. On par militarily with Turians/Krogan? Check.

They're never indicated to be on par with those in general in all of those areas. Particular special individuals may be, like Jack or Shepard, but those are the exception, not the rule.

[Psyren]

Only because Shepard piqued their interest, however. They're assuming that there's something special about the species because Shepard is human.

As their plague on Omega shows, it goes deeper than that. They recognized the same quality about humans that Mordin did.

They're never indicated to be on par with those in general in all of those areas. Particular special individuals may be, like Jack or Shepard, but those are the exception, not the rule.

Regardless of how few they are, our exceptional individuals are on par with their exceptional individuals. The fact that we may have fewer exceptionals, or a lower average overall, is irrelevant - we have equal if not greater potential.

[Zevox]

As their plague on Omega shows, it goes deeper than that. They recognized the same quality about humans that Mordin did.

Which was originally supposed to matter, as it tied into the dark energy ending, but no longer does since that was scrapped.

Regardless of how few they are, our exceptional individuals are on par with their exceptional individuals. The fact that we may have fewer exceptionals, or a lower average overall, is irrelevant - we have equal if not greater potential.

Again, not at all seeing how "exceptional individuals in each species are on par with each other" translates into "humans are better than everyone else." Seems to be a leap of logic there.

[Derthric]

Again, not at all seeing how "exceptional individuals in each species are on par with each other" translates into "humans are better than everyone else." Seems to be a leap of logic there.

Just going to point out Mordin's loyalty mission on Tuchanka, where he talked about Humans having greater genetic range than the rest of the galaxy. Higher peaks and lower valleys or some such, so I took that to mean a human COULD be more powerful than an average asari, like Jack. But to me that is all at an individual level not racial. Remember potential does not equal real.

But back on point, I am honestly torn about this game. From what I have seen and read it could fit a lot of my interests. But what could probably draw me in the most is concept of building the inquisition and seeing that impact the world. But I wonder how much of a strategic element they will incorporate. Just my 2 cents

[Math_Mage]

'Humans are mutable, aliens are static' is such a common theme in science fiction that I don't see any reason either to deny that it happens in ME or to view it as a particular problem with the series. But it's a little less...simplistic...than 'humans rule, aliens drool.'

[Beowulf DW]

But back on point, I am honestly torn about this game. From what I have seen and read it could fit a lot of my interests. But what could probably draw me in the most is concept of building the inquisition and seeing that impact the world. But I wonder how much of a strategic element they will incorporate. Just my 2 cents

Yes, they don't seem to be very forthcoming on that particular part of gameplay, other than constantly telling us that action X or inaction Y will affect our influence, and I'm pretty sure I saw something like *Power: +2" pop up after one of the quests in the last demo.

Edited to avoid double post:

Some info on combat.

Points made:

-No equipment degradation, which has never featured in the DA games, but it's always good to hear. I honestly don't see how anyone thinks a mechanic like that was ever a good idea.

-Combat styles appear to be restricted from class to class, again, as they mention that warriors can't use two swords, and only rogues can dual-wield daggers. However, the attack animations are apparently different for various forms within a weapon group, i.e. single vs double-bladed daggers.
*Kind of raises questions about that Knight Enchanter subclass that's suppose to use enchanted blades?

-Explanation on how Focus Powers work

-Oh just read the darn thing already!