Dragon Age 3 III: Where Is Your Maker Now?

[Xondoure]

Just to clear this up: The warrior wardens aren't just some random sword-dudes. The warrior wardens are supposed to be among the best swordsmen in Ferelden at level one. Remember even the other knights say you were able to win tournaments and make it look easy. Warriors start out technically knowing how to do everything except a few obscure techniques. Meanwhile the mage warden is just some dude who's barely even considered a full mage and just going through actual initiation at the beginning. It's made obvious that even within the circle you aren't that great at spellcasting and stuff by comparison to many others, and their subclasses are much more common than the warrior ones.

So to claim that warriors can't be balanced is essentially to say that the very best warrior is inferior to the very worst mage across the board, and in all circumstances that are comparable. If you're stupid enough to believe that I don't think we can really have much conversation past that point.

Close, but it's also stated that no one has ever finished the right of passage (whatever its called) faster in the history of the circle. And through the course of the game you become strong enough to take down pride abominations without much effort. No origin is a slouch in story by any means. All that the warrior being a champion (not the sub class) from the beginning indicates is the unfortunate decay of physical strength long before mental faculties start to seriously suffer.

[Jayngfet]

The mage is no slouch, but lets keep in mind exactly what steps are taken in noble vs mage origins. Mage basically goes from a student to professional over the origins. The Noble is already an established professional winning competitions left and right and catching everyone's eye over it, and that's just with pure technique and no tricks of the sort Oghren or Loghain use or Sten's sheer muscle.

[Xondoure]

The mage is no slouch, but lets keep in mind exactly what steps are taken in noble vs mage origins. Mage basically goes from a student to professional over the origins. The Noble is already an established professional winning competitions left and right and catching everyone's eye over it, and that's just with pure technique and no tricks of the sort Oghren or Loghain use or Sten's sheer muscle.

I'd argue that Mage goes from student to stronger than the archmages. So they end up at the height of their proficiency for their professions. The only difference is a really good sword fighter doesn't find himself in a good position when invisible force is crushing them from every angle.

[Jayngfet]

I'd argue that Mage goes from student to stronger than the archmages. So they end up at the height of their proficiency for their professions. The only difference is a really good sword fighter doesn't find himself in a good position when invisible force is crushing them from every angle.

...and the mage is thereby also screwed when a crossbow bolt finds their unarmored Adams apple. From a conceptual standpoint we can just keep going tit-for-tat all day.

[Morty]

Like I said before, the class balance, or lack thereof, is a little all over the place in the series. On the one hand, mages are scary. On the other hand, players can play both mages and non-mages, so some semblance of balance is needed. On the yet other hand, Origins is wildly unbalanced, but DA2 is better about it. I generally agree with the assumption that the Warden, Hawke and their magic-less companions are the best of the best at what they do, and thus can keep pace with mages somewhat. One could also say that magic, powerful as it is, is hard to perform in a heated battle, but of course it doesn't at all apply to the combat in either game - although I think it should. I don't think any of the designers thought about it too hard - they just threw in the warrior/rogue/mage trinity and called it a day.

[Beowulf DW]

Like I said before, the class balance, or lack thereof, is a little all over the place in the series. On the one hand, mages are scary. On the other hand, players can play both mages and non-mages, so some semblance of balance is needed. On the yet other hand, Origins is wildly unbalanced, but DA2 is better about it. I generally agree with the assumption that the Warden, Hawke and their magic-less companions are the best of the best at what they do, and thus can keep pace with mages somewhat. One could also say that magic, powerful as it is, is hard to perform in a heated battle, but of course it doesn't at all apply to the combat in either game - although I think it should. I don't think any of the designers thought about it too hard - they just threw in the warrior/rogue/mage trinity and called it a day.

It Origins, it was harder to perform in combat. Your spells could be easily interrupted if you took too much damage without putting ranks into combat training.

[Morty]

Which everyone did, since the only other skill worth using was Persuasion, assuming you got an NPC to brew potions for you. So the point is moot.

[Beowulf DW]

Which everyone did, since the only other skill worth using was Persuasion, assuming you got an NPC to brew potions for you. So the point is moot.

True. Other than a few side quests here and there, the other skills really didn't come up too much.

[Giggling Ghast]

Interesting. The Reavers character in Multiplayer is one of the cultists from Haven.

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[Beowulf DW]

Interesting. The Reavers character in Multiplayer is one of the cultists from Haven.

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Any more where that came from?

[Zevox]

Interesting. The Reavers character in Multiplayer is one of the cultists from Haven.

More like rather creepy, actually. She's being coerced into serving the Inquisition on threat of death.

[Giggling Ghast]

And here's the Assassin.

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More like rather creepy, actually. She's being coerced into serving the Inquisition on threat of death.

*Shrugs* No different than any other boxed crook, really. I would have just had her killed, but I suppose she can do some good this way.

Note: The Reavers profile has a mistake in it. Tamar survived the Fifth Blight, not the First. She isn't a thousand years old. ;)

[Psyren]

It's actually heartening for me to see that the MP characters have backstories and relationships with the world. It bodes well for that other MP action-RPG Bioware is working on. I only hope that pseudo-modern setting is as interesting as ME and DA have been.

Just to clear this up: The warrior wardens aren't just some random sword-dudes. The warrior wardens are supposed to be among the best swordsmen in Ferelden at level one. Remember even the other knights say you were able to win tournaments and make it look easy. Warriors start out technically knowing how to do everything except a few obscure techniques. Meanwhile the mage warden is just some dude who's barely even considered a full mage and just going through actual initiation at the beginning. It's made obvious that even within the circle you aren't that great at spellcasting and stuff by comparison to many others, and their subclasses are much more common than the warrior ones.

So to claim that warriors can't be balanced is essentially to say that the very best warrior is inferior to the very worst mage across the board, and in all circumstances that are comparable. If you're stupid enough to believe that I don't think we can really have much conversation past that point.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Both Irving and Wynne remark multiple times on how talented you were in your studies, and how they both knew you would ace your Harrowing. Irving put your name forward to Duncan - the only other mages allowed to leave from your circle for the war effort were Wynne and Uldred, and only for the army, whereas you were chosen to actually be a Warden.

So no, all the protagonists are supremely talented, not just the muggles.

[Derthric]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Both Irving and Wynne remark multiple times on how talented you were in your studies, and how they both knew you would ace your Harrowing. Irving put your name forward to Duncan - the only other mages allowed to leave from your circle for the war effort were Wynne and Uldred, and only for the army, whereas you were chosen to actually be a Warden.

So no, all the protagonists are supremely talented, not just the muggles.

I seem to recall other mages in the camp at Ostagar, I always assumed they were from the ferelden circle since Loghain was having a conniption over foreign soldiers and would probably have his head explode from foreign mages.

[Psyren]

I seem to recall other mages in the camp at Ostagar, I always assumed they were from the ferelden circle since Loghain was having a conniption over foreign soldiers and would probably have his head explode from foreign mages.

Those mages are only in the army. Duncan states that he wanted you specifically to join the Wardens at the end of the Mage Origin, and that Irving has been speaking highly of your talent.

[Xondoure]

...and the mage is thereby also screwed when a crossbow bolt finds their unarmored Adams apple. From a conceptual standpoint we can just keep going tit-for-tat all day.

Sure. But the point I was making wasn't that a swordmaster couldn't kill a mage. But just that all the origins in Origins are supposed to be exceptionally skilled individuals. It's not the best of the best lagging behind an average mage (gameplay.) It's the best of the best lagging behind one of the most powerful mages living.

[Giggling Ghast]

That's what magic resistance is for! Now come here for your arse-whopping, sparklefingers!

More multiplayer bios!

Hall the Archer, a human raised by the Dalish:

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Korbin the Legionnaire:

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Those mages are only in the army. Duncan states that he wanted you specifically to join the Wardens at the end of the Mage Origin, and that Irving has been speaking highly of your talent.

No, those other mages are with the Circle. You're right about everything else, but not that. The generic mage that accompanies you in the Tower of Ishal is even called "Circle Mage." (No wonder he didn't survive. For God's sake, get a nametag, man!)

[Psyren]

No, those other mages are with the Circle. You're right about everything else, but not that. The generic mage that accompanies you in the Tower of Ishal is even called "Circle Mage." (No wonder he didn't survive. For God's sake, get a nametag, man!)

The Circle loaned them to the army at King Cailan's request, dude. Greagoir is even complaining to Irving and Duncan about this at the beginning of DAO. Do you even Mage Origin?

When I said "they're in the army," I meant as a contractors, not career soldiers. Yes, they're still with the Circle, and the expectation was that they and the templars would have returned there once the Darkspawn were defeated (had Loghain not screwed everyone over.) And in fact, the few survivors did so, unfortunately led by Uldred.

Korbin the Legionnaire:

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So, the inquisition has to ally with the Dwarven King. This sounds like a SP quest to me; I wonder if Bhelen, Harrowmont, or someone else will be on the throne?

[Giggling Ghast]

Then I'm not sure what this argument is about anymore. Maybe I never did.

Neria, the Keeper!

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That artwork's not helping to dissuade me of my lust for elven women.

[Beowulf DW]

Where are you getting these?

[Psyren]

Then I'm not sure what this argument is about anymore. Maybe I never did.

In brief: All wardens exceptional, not just teh muggles. (And for the record, I was arguing with Jayngfet, not you - you just happened to leap into it.)

Neria, the Keeper!

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She seems chummy, as does her whole clan. Keeper is almost certainly one of the healer mages, hopefully not the only one.

[StabbityRabbit]

A more in depth look at the keep can be found here.

[Dienekes]

A more in depth look at the keep can be found here.

Looks pretty much what I hoped for. A method to just go about making the big choices, and if you really want to you can go in to the more nitty gritty decisions, including DLCs which is nice. It all seems pretty well thought out too with the locking options.

[StabbityRabbit]

Looks pretty much what I hoped for. A method to just go about making the big choices, and if you really want to you can go in to the more nitty gritty decisions, including DLCs which is nice. It all seems pretty well thought out too with the locking options.

Meh.

I'm more excited for the Varric voice over. Although it will be nice to be able to change decisions where I stopped roleplaying, and did what I would do instead of what my character would do.

[Giggling Ghast]

Rion the Elementalist:

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All of these cards were posted to Ryan Treadwell's Twitter.

[StabbityRabbit]

Rion the Elementalist:

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All of these cards were posted to Ryan Treadwell's Twitter.

That is a multi talented man.

A skilled elementalist, and a cortotionist? Very impressive.

(Those arms...)

[Giggling Ghast]

He's Rion the Ragdoll!

(Personally, I'm more creeped out by his smile than anything.)

[StabbityRabbit]

He's Rion the Ragdoll!

He's certainly creepy enough to be a doll. That smile...

EDIT:Ninja'd by the quotee

[Giggling Ghast]

I was actually referencing the DC comics character Rag Doll, who is basically just an extremely skilled contortionist.

Let's see, that's Reaver, Assassin, Archer, Legionnaire, Keeper and Elementalist. That's six of 12, and I know one of the remaining MP characters is a lady Necromancer.

So, the inquisition has to ally with the Dwarven King. This sounds like a SP quest to me; I wonder if Bhelen, Harrowmont, or someone else will be on the throne?

I know that one of the quests in Inquisition involves sending a delegation to Orzammar, but I don't think we return there ourselves.

[StabbityRabbit]

I was actually referencing the DC comics character Rag Doll, who is basically just an extremely skilled contortionist.

Let's see, that's Reaver, Assassin, Archer, Legionnaire, Keeper and Elementalist. That's six of 12, and I know one of the remaining MP characters is a lady Necromancer.



I know that one of the quests in Inquisition involves sending a delegation to Orzammar, but I don't think we return there ourselves.

Rion might actually be based off of Ragdoll from Batman the animated series. Similar smile, flexibility, and much more creepy.

Apparently there might be a two-handed qunari warrior called Katari, but that's not really reliable.