Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

[Foeofthelance]

Hm... okay, but still. I know what they were trying to do it just didn't quite work for me. Maybe because everything else they ever did with Strax was turning him into a clown. And such a sudden turn from clown to hero failed for me.

Just watched the scene, and he deliberately starts raising the rifle to his face as it starts getting harder to hold his breath. His motives might be unclear, but he was definitely getting ready to pull the trigger on himself.

[Sunken Valley]

Sunken Valley returns to review Deep Breath...a week after it came out. Sorry fans!

Deep Breath

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Stuff I Liked

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Words cannot describe how much I love the new opening sequence!!! Much better than the 2013 one (which wasn't bad but it was very flashy).

I especially liked the evil Half-face man and his complex character.

The scene where Clara has to hold her breath was a welcome return to Moffat being scary as hell.

The restaurant scene was also just as chilling.

No Flirting!

All the mysteries this episode has set up sound really exciting. If they don't forget about them by ep12.

Stuff I Didn't Like

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The Dinosaur was lame. Poor CGI and sets up lots of plot holes about how the Dinosaur was killed and how the Half-face man took the optic nerve.

What on earth was so important about Vastra taking off her veil? I didn't get it.

All 3 Patternosta members are heavily flanderised. Especially Strax, whose gender confusion joke makes Clara a lesbian.

Who edited that final fight scene. It was awfully filmed! It's not the directors fault, he did Sightseers, which is an awesome film.

Matt Smith's cameo cheapened Capaldi by needing the old Doctor to introduce the new one.

Fun fact

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In this episode, Jenny uses a special glove, Vastra uses a hat pin and Strax uses special glasses. All of these new gadgets were designed by children in a Blue Peter contest.

7/10. Has promise.

Into the Dalek, in 3 hours review will be up.

[comicshorse]

That was...............really rather good

*though are all the episodes this Season going to hark back to previous ones ?)

[Avilan the Grey]

Just reporting in saying I haven't seen this weeks episode but saw the first episode of Season 8, and for the first time in a long time I like the show again. Finally the Doctor is back to the basics.

[factotum]

Sorry, but I didn't rate this episode much at all. I'm getting a bit sick of people who have absolutely no reason to trust the Doctor going ahead with his suggestions anyway, to be honest.

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Case in point: despite the security of the Aristotle being so absolute they were going to kill the guy who saved one of their pilots, they were willing to let the Doctor leave to pick up Clara? Then, when the Doctor turns the "good" Dalek into a bad one again, they somehow don't assume this confirms their suspicions about him being a Dalek agent; then they disobey the orders of their superior *and* one of them gives her own life to help him in a plan that he doesn't really have a clue about himself? It's just nonsense! And the less said about the Clara romance subplot the better, IMHO.

[Aotrs Commander]

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It had Daleks and a starship battle in it. This automatically makes it Best Episode, especially since the Daleks sort of won. Okay, yes, sort of a moral victory, in a Dalek-y sort of way. I like Rusty. I hope we see him again at some point.

27.235/10

Liking Capaldi. He hasn't grabbed like Matt Smith did, but he's a more sort of understated Doctor and I do like the ruthless edge.

Also AHAHAHAH! Go Clara! It's nice to see a companion who will cheerfully slap him when he's being an idiot; he does need it sometimes...

[BWR]

Bleh.

My thoughts, kind of unorganized:

Good Daleks? Even malfunctioning, this is just wrong. Like the emo Dalek in "Dalek", it should not be.
Stupid resistance is stupid. Daleks apparantly have a LOT of empty space inside them considering how un-nano the folks were. Companion saves the day because the Doctor gives up or hasn't a clue; I'm getting so ****ing sick of that. Capaldi is good now that he's settled down a bit. Fun to see Coal Hill school. Would have appreciated a comment about how last time he miniaturized himself he went into himself. Effing magic wand! Seriously, stop it.

[Thufir]

Sorry, but I didn't rate this episode much at all. I'm getting a bit sick of people who have absolutely no reason to trust the Doctor going ahead with his suggestions anyway, to be honest.

Really? I would've thought that anyone who wasn't already sick of that after 50 years would be someone who could just accept it. People trust the Doctor for no particularly compelling reason beyond the fact the plot wouldn't work otherwise. Maybe he just has a trustworthy face. Or rather, twelve trustworthy faces, so far.

[Avaris]

Just watched episode 2. Certainly better than last week!

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I liked that the Dalek ultimately wasn't good, just redirected. The fact that the original plan just made the situation much worse was fun, and it wasn't even the Doctor's plan that went wrong! I was expecting some message about hope to be in there somewhere: the hope of a good dalek is what drove the episode. And the Doctor talking to Rusty was really well done, especially the twist of the hatred inside the Doctor. He seemed devastated by that.

Also somewhat refreshing mix of characters on the ship, rather than all being white men. Shame they didn't bring Journey on board, though she was clearly there to set up for Danny Pink coming on board later in the series.

Somewhat surprised that one Dalek can so easily take on all the others. Was expecting a bit more of a confrontation there.

[Kato]

Woohoo, new episode.

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I actually liked this a lot more than last weeks premiere. Notthat last week was bad but this was really great, if less comedic which I usually like.

The Doctor just giving up on the male soldier seemed a bit ooc... but maybe that's just something 13 does different from others... though, I'm not entirely sure how much the Doctor used to tend to go out of his way to save every single random person but I felt he wasn't that relaxed about it. Maybe it's just 13.

The whole Dalek business worked pretty well, also including the end, though the "you are a good Dalek" thing seems rehashed from "Dalek" (which breaks my heart because it makes me remember Nine I miss you, ear-man...) but I guess it's still as true and the Doctor being that intent on hating Daleks... well, nothing new.

The Soldier business... I really look forward to the new companion and what they are going to do with him. In fact I have so high hopes I'm almost sure I'll be disappointed but maybe I won't. Though, the "single tear down his cheek" shot was too cliche in my opinion. Oh, well.

I hope the Doctor doesn't just forget... the lady... who went to heaven. Dang, already forgot her name. Gretchen? Or was that the other one?

[LokeyITP]

Ford should have stuck with just having Waters of Mars on his resume :)

Wheatley took a different approach to how the episode looks this week, and lots of it is pretty interesting.

Plot-wise it needed more thought, but I don't really see an easy way to set the episode up (which is good since if I can think about it for 30 seconds and make the episode work...well then we're in season 6.5 and lots of 7), and needed a better way to get the Doctor on the scene (granted Waters of Mars needed that too although it's explained at the end there). So that aside, Capaldi = fine, Doctor is used pretty well, no huge complaints. Clara = better this week, Pink = we'll see where it goes.

New director next week as well (to DW), Gatiss writing (after that is MacKinnen + Moffat).

[Androgeus]

So Clara runs out of family Christmas lunch at her house, leaving her Dad, grandmother and female of uncertain relation there, travels to Trenzalore and then ultimately to Glasgow (via the Victorian age). I wonder how she explained that one to her family.

Also thought the episode was middling. Made the Daleks a bit too robotic for my liking, Daleks are just kinda Cybermen with a sprinkling of hate these days. Although it makes what Clarlek did in Asylum a bit more understandable (Added all current memories of the Doctor to the list of memories to be suppressed).

[Thufir]

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The Doctor just giving up on the male soldier seemed a bit ooc... but maybe that's just something 12 does different from others... though, I'm not entirely sure how much the Doctor used to tend to go out of his way to save every single random person but I felt he wasn't that relaxed about it. Maybe it's just 12.

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Actually, that was entirely in character. Any of the last three Doctors would have done it, they just would've done it differently. Nine would've been angry with the soldier for being so stupid as to get himself killed, and with himself for being unable to prevent it. Ten would've apologised three or more times for there being nothing he could do. Eleven would've been somewhere in between. Twelve so far seems to be very much all business - he doesn't let grief and regret slow him down.
Given the idea that each new regeneration is in some way a reaction to the circumstances in which the previous one died, this would certainly fit - the Doctor has always been a wanderer, always moving onwards, but Eleven spent hundreds of years on Trenzalore because he cared too much to leave. Result: new Doctor is much colder and less caring. The description of Clara, "She cares, so I don't have to" also seems very apt in this light.

[lt_murgen]

So Clara runs out of family Christmas lunch at her house, leaving her Dad, grandmother and female of uncertain relation there, travels to Trenzalore and then ultimately to Glasgow (via the Victorian age). I wonder how she explained that one to her family.

Also thought the episode was middling. Made the Daleks a bit too robotic for my liking, Daleks are just kinda Cybermen with a sprinkling of hate these days. Although it makes what Clarlek did in Asylum a bit more understandable (Added all current memories of the Doctor to the list of memories to be suppressed).

I think Daleks and cybermen are almost mirror images of each other. Cybermen are mostly unemotional chunks of metal using living brains for a processor. Daleks are tanks driven by lumps of angry, angry flesh.

[BRC]

I liked this episode a lot.

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Maybe it's just that he spent most of last week in a post-regeneration daze, but this was the first time we got a good look at the 12th Doctor.

The 12th Doctor's "Theme" seems to be an abandonment of Pretense. This same episode could have happened with any of the NuWho Doctors (Don't know the old ones well enough to judge), with only minor dialogue changes.

The 10th doctor would have been all "i'm sorry, I'm so so sorry, but you're dead".
The one difference I can think of would be the soldier who sacrificed herself. Earlier doctors wouldn't have let her do that.

It would have happened anyway, but they would have said "NO! DON'T DO THAT! I'LL THINK OF SOMETHING CLEVER" and then while they stood off trying to think, she would have done it and they would have angsted about it.

12 does not angst, he respects her decision. He respects that people around him will die, he just tries to make their deaths count for something.

Of course, the big change is Clara. Clara never clicked as a character for me before. She fawned over the 11th Doctor, had the prerequisite companion-standard Spunk, but largely just stood around to receive exposition. I have no real memories of her from her time with 11.
Their relationship is also much more entertaining to watch. Under 9, 10, and 11 the Companions were generally starstruck young women on a grand Adventure. Clara and 12 seem like much more of a team. Ironically, while 12 is much more of an Adult (11 was a millenia-old manchild), the power dynamic between them seems a bit more equal than before. She's more than somebody to be impressed by the wonders of the universe.

[Dienekes]

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So, can we stop with the good Daleks? I'm starting to think there have been more good Dalek storylines than straight examples of Daleks.

The Dalek from Dalek starts feeling guilt so commits suicide, Dalek Sec and Dalek Caan both turn good, Oswald Dalek was good, and now Rusty.

I did enjoy the episode, but The Doctor can go sit on a knife for his tirade against soldiers.

[BRC]

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So, can we stop with the good Daleks? I'm starting to think there have been more good Dalek storylines than straight examples of Daleks.

The Dalek from Dalek starts feeling guilt so commits suicide, Dalek Sec and Dalek Caan both turn good, Oswald Dalek was good, and now Rusty.

I did enjoy the episode, but The Doctor can go sit on a knife for his tirade against soldiers.

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Probably because "Straight" examples of Daleks are kind of boring. They're big, scary one-note villains who want to kill everything. They're powerful enough that, generally speaking, they can do so without any convoluted plans or superweapons.

[Dienekes]

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Probably because "Straight" examples of Daleks are kind of boring. They're big, scary one-note villains who want to kill everything. They're powerful enough that, generally speaking, they can do so without any convoluted plans or superweapons.

And yet, for my money the best Dalek episodes or part of episodes have been them played straight. The 90% of Dalek before he went good was great, the ending was just a bit weak. The less said about Sec the better, Caan's betrayal felt forced and a little pointless really, and Oswald makes no sense (A Dalek is not a Cyberman).

While the Dalek vs Cyberman episode was fun, as was the Daleks swarming the future Earth station, and Stolen Earths big problem wasn't the Daleks, it was the abundance of plot threads that didn't lead anywhere.

[Aotrs Commander]

Also...

Victory of the Daleks.

Just... Victory of the Daleks.

[Calemyr]

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The last episode was an odd mix of brilliant and stupid ideas, as well as a lot of wasted potential. In other words, it felt like most of the last season: too big for its time slot, even with the expanded running time, with much needed bits and pieces left out in order to make room for ill-conceived jokes.

This episode, on the other hand, was a much better episode. It felt much more complete and compact, with ideas being posed and played out in good measure. The Doctor's dilemma throughout the whole episode (can a Dalek actually be good, and if it can, does that mean the Doctor's hatred is unjustifiable?) was well done, though I did see the twist coming early on in the conversation - to a Dalek, hatred is beautiful, so when a Dalek is basking in the beauty of your mind, don't take it as a compliment.

What I particularly liked:
* The whole twin-brain setup makes an awful lot of sense to me. Life is change, adaptation, evolution, but the Daleks resist that change. I admit I have wondered why only extremely taxed or damaged Daleks evolved, and it makes a lot of sense that they're wired to a secondary electronic brain that literally blocks out any memories that would inspire evolution of any sort.

* Danny is introduced before joining the crew. It's nice to once in a while realize that these people have lives before the Doctor turns them upside down.

* The Daleks continue to be inconsistent - we're back to old school gold? I'd be annoyed, except for the fact that it means that these are the old school Daleks, not the Power Rangers. It's kind of nice to have some acknowledgement that all Daleks in all of space and time got replaced. Also, we really haven't seen Power Ranger Daleks in an outright offensive role yet, and I'm wondering if that's intentional.

* Danny's single-tear "sexy cry" stunt would have found its way on the dislike pile if it weren't for the fact that it directly lead to a legitimately interesting and humanizing moment of miscommunication, panic, comfort zones, and private regret. Despite Danny's reputation, he legitimately seems to be a gentle and socially awkward soul who retreats to his comfort zones (books, his classroom) when he's out of his depth. Its a pattern of behavior I recognize in myself and it's interesting to see it portrayed on screen. It's not how things usually work on screen - people are either perfect communicators or horribly flawed individuals. So that was cool.

* The Doctor railing against soldiers and questioning his own morality are nice touches, especially in an early Doctor episode. His coldness is well done, particularly: there was nothing he could do for that guy and at least that way his death served a purpose, and this one actually does manage to focus on the people he saves rather than the ones he loses.

* Finally I do like the fact that the story doesn't end on a happy note or a tragic one (beyond the Doctor's self esteem). A lot of people died, a lot of people were saved, and the Doctor managed to achieve exactly what the humans wanted him to: a fully functional anti-Dalek. But the victory is made bittersweet by the realization that an anti-Dalek isn't a "good" Dalek, it's just a Dalek that has found a brighter, more focused hatred to guide it.

What I didn't like:

* The Doctor can be as cold, ruthless, and alien as he likes, people will still disobey direct orders and betray years of training for no better reason that he says so. Granted, people tend to follow anyone who steps up on the spot, but Craig's mind-altering-gas theory continues to accrue merit.

* The soldiers go from "Shoot him now" to "Let him leave entirely on the suggestion that he'll come back with an assistant" in moments. Yep, that gas theory looks better every day.

* No references to the Asylum (not outright, anyway). We've got Clara, broken Daleks, memory issues, and a Doctor the Dalek completely fails to recognize (they seem to spot him from a mile off, new regeneration or not, even if they can't pinpoint why he makes them nervous). These are likely Oswin-wiped Daleks, so a reference wouldn't go amiss.

* Clara should know better by now than to let the Doctor leave in the Tardis, especially when she's not at home. Granted, she was at least on the right planet in the right time, but still... Clara was being dumb to expect any other outcome.

All told, pretty darn good. I'll probably keep it next time I run out of storage space, along with other gems like A Good Man Goes to War and Name of the Doctor.

As a bonus point, it reminded me of a scene from Farscape:
Aeryn: What did I do wrong?
D'Argo: You called her a warrior. I don't think you could have cut her more deeply.

[factotum]

The Dalek from Dalek starts feeling guilt so commits suicide

Er, what?? The Dalek from "Dalek" (which I'm not going to spoiler, the episode was first broadcast nearly a decade ago!) didn't commit suicide because it felt guilt--it committed suicide because it had been tainted by Rose's touch and was thus, in its own eyes, an abomination; a mutant who did not deserve to wield the tools of the pure Daleks. How the heck you got guilt from that I have no idea.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

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Was anyone else hoping that at the end Rusty would join the doctor in the tardis? I want a Dalek companion so badly.

"DOC-TOR! I HAVE FALLEN IN THE TARDIS'S SWIMMING POOL! AND I CANNOT GET OUT!"
"sigh..."
"DOGGIE PADDLE!! DOG-GIE PAD-DLE!!!!"

[Strawberries]

Mad crazy busy period means I've watched both the episodes, but I've not really be online to comment them. I can say I liked both so far.

So far, my favourite of the Doctors was Nine, but even after only two episodes Capaldi is quickly becoming a strong candidate for the title.

Some random points and a random speculation:

Really? I would've thought that anyone who wasn't already sick of that after 50 years would be someone who could just accept it. People trust the Doctor for no particularly compelling reason beyond the fact the plot wouldn't work otherwise. Maybe he just has a trustworthy face. Or rather, twelve trustworthy faces, so far.

Yes, so much this, in fact, that when people don't automatically trust him, you get that gem of an episode that is 'midnight'. Midnight works precisely because the Doctor (and we together with him) is so automatically used to people following his lead that when they don't his universe spins out of control.

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Actually, that was entirely in character. Any of the last three Doctors would have done it, they just would've done it differently. Nine would've been angry with the soldier for being so stupid as to get himself killed, and with himself for being unable to prevent it. Ten would've apologised three or more times for there being nothing he could do. Eleven would've been somewhere in between. Twelve so far seems to be very much all business - he doesn't let grief and regret slow him down.
Given the idea that each new regeneration is in some way a reaction to the circumstances in which the previous one died, this would certainly fit - the Doctor has always been a wanderer, always moving onwards, but Eleven spent hundreds of years on Trenzalore because he cared too much to leave. Result: new Doctor is much colder and less caring. The description of Clara, "She cares, so I don't have to" also seems very apt in this light.

And again, Thufir, I agree completely with everything you said. The action is entirely in character, the way of going about it is unique to each doctor, as it should be.

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The one difference I can think of would be the soldier who sacrificed herself. Earlier doctors wouldn't have let her do that.

I feel the same way, and on that point

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I'm actually slightly less interested to speculate who Missy is as opposed to why she's doing what she's doing. So far, she has "rescued" two people that died because of the Doctor's direct action/inaction, as the case may be. Either Twelve pushed the cyborg (I personally am of this opinion) or he drove him to jump, and Twelve definitely allowed the soldier (Gretchen, I think?) to sacrifice herself without trying to stop her or to intervene in either way.

I wonder if Missy's plan will be, at some point, to parade the 'victims' in front of the doctor, as a reminder of the people who die for him and because of him. It could be in line with the theme so far, which has been the Doctor not being sure if he is a good man...

Also, I'll be in Italy for the next two episodes, which means no BBC for me...

[Aotrs Commander]

Also, I'll be in Italy for the next two episodes, which means no BBC for me...

I suspect they'll be on iplayer for a few weeks - I think when I had to watch the premier on iplayer while I was away last week it said it was available for 28 days, so I would be surprised if the same doesn't hold true for the rest of 'em.

[Androgeus]

I suspect they'll be on iplayer for a few weeks - I think when I had to watch the premier on iplayer while I was away last week it said it was available for 28 days, so I would be surprised if the same doesn't hold true for the rest of 'em.

It should be on series catch up so the entire series is available until a week after the last episode is broadcast

[Thufir]

* Clara should know better by now than to let the Doctor leave in the Tardis, especially when she's not at home. Granted, she was at least on the right planet in the right time, but still... Clara was being dumb to expect any other outcome.

There's no indication that Clara let the Doctor leave in the TARDIS. I think it's more likely that she just let him out of her sight for a few minutes and came back to discover the TARDIS was gone.

Er, what?? The Dalek from "Dalek" (which I'm not going to spoiler, the episode was first broadcast nearly a decade ago!) didn't commit suicide because it felt guilt--it committed suicide because it had been tainted by Rose's touch and was thus, in its own eyes, an abomination; a mutant who did not deserve to wield the tools of the pure Daleks. How the heck you got guilt from that I have no idea.

The specific reason it considered itself an abomination was because it was feeling emotions other than hatred (causing it to not want to kill everything). Guilt wasn't specified, but it is entirely possible.

[Eldan]

* The Doctor can be as cold, ruthless, and alien as he likes, people will still disobey direct orders and betray years of training for no better reason that he says so. Granted, people tend to follow anyone who steps up on the spot, but Craig's mind-altering-gas theory continues to accrue merit.

In these cases, I default to "psychic". I mean, the Doctor has exhibited a very diverse range of telepathic powers, especially taking into consideration the audio plays (I can't comment on the old series or the novels). "Authority field" isn't out of the question.

[Brother Oni]

In these cases, I default to "psychic". I mean, the Doctor has exhibited a very diverse range of telepathic powers, especially taking into consideration the audio plays (I can't comment on the old series or the novels). "Authority field" isn't out of the question.

There was also the psychic paper which gave him the credentials necessary to fool whoever looked at it (I can't remember Eleven ever using it though).

[Hopeless]

There was also the psychic paper which gave him the credentials necessary to fool whoever looked at it (I can't remember Eleven ever using it though).

Like when it absolutely failed after he claimed to be a responsible adult?

[Kato]

Like when it absolutely failed after he claimed to be a responsible adult?

All magic/technology has limits...

In these cases, I default to "psychic". I mean, the Doctor has exhibited a very diverse range of telepathic powers, especially taking into consideration the audio plays (I can't comment on the old series or the novels). "Authority field" isn't out of the question.

Yeah, I always took it as something like that. Or he just has the highest Charisma score ever.