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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    I actually feel good that that didn't even register as a thing of even distant note until you even mentioned it. (Because it really shouldn't be, and it's dperessing in that some places in the world it still is.)
    if it makes you feel slightly better, only six people in the entirety of the UK complained to Ofcom about the kiss. Ofcom responded by saying they do not discriminate between scenes involving opposite sex and same sex couple.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    I actually feel good that that didn't even register as a thing of even distant note until you even mentioned it. (Because it really shouldn't be, and it's dperessing in that some places in the world it still is.)
    I think less people would register it if half the screen time those two had on screen weren't dedicated to reminding us they are Lesbians.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    OK, I just watched "Listen". I have two general questions, with the rest of my thoughts in spoilers:

    1) When did Doctor Who become a soap opera?
    2) When are they going to rename the series "Clara" to more accurately reflect its content?

    Spoiler
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    Seriously, that was just terrible. Now we have Clara shaping the outlook of the young Doctor? A boy who is afraid of the dark sleeps in an *unlit* barn rather than the main house? (A main house which, you'll note, was nowhere to be seen when John Hurt's Doctor approached the place). If the whole thing from beginning to end was the Doctor's imagination, how do we explain that he, Clara *and* young Rupert saw the "thing" under the bedclothes? Oh, with the modern Who stories being so short anyway, several points off for spending precious runtime following Clara's failed-then-not-failed date with the adult Rupert/Dan.


    I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise that this is another Moffat-penned episode. Seriously, Steven, spend your time writing Sherlock and showrunning Who--let other people write the actual episodes, m'kay?

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
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    Seriously, that was just terrible. Now we have Clara shaping the outlook of the young Doctor? A boy who is afraid of the dark sleeps in an *unlit* barn rather than the main house? (A main house which, you'll note, was nowhere to be seen when John Hurt's Doctor approached the place). If the whole thing from beginning to end was the Doctor's imagination, how do we explain that he, Clara *and* young Rupert saw the "thing" under the bedclothes? Oh, with the modern Who stories being so short anyway, several points off for spending precious runtime following Clara's failed-then-not-failed date with the adult Rupert/Dan.
    Spoiler: Barn
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    I don't think he was afraid of the dark until after Clara grabbed him - he was sleeping in the barn because he didn't want the other children to hear him crying (presumably because he missed his parents).

    Also, the barn is in the middle of a desolated plain in War's time, but it might not have been back in his first incarnation.


    My opinions:

    Spoiler: Listen
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    Great atmosphere and a very good 'behind the sofa' episode (both my children are probably going to sleep with the light on tonight ). The idea of a creature that hid so well that you'd never should see it has already done though with the Silence.

    Lots of nested time loops, although I thought the critter might have been that thing from Midnight.

    I agree with factotum that it doesn't explain what that thing under the bedspread was though, unless it's the Dream Lord playing up again. I don't think the Clara and Dan/Rupert thing date is overdone as it fleshes him out more and gives a better reason into why he and Clara might get together, although it does feel a little cramped (there's a couple of scenes that could do with maybe a minute or two longer).
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2014-09-13 at 08:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    I know I'm behind but I just saw "Into the Dalek."

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    I was rolling my eyes the entire time. "Really Doctor, you get a Dalek so busted it turns good and your first thought is "I'm gonna go fix it! I'm so clever!"

    Thankfully Clara got him to his senses - a bit too late for some of the soldiers, but still.


    But Clara - she rocked that episode. All the haters can eat it, Clara is officially my favorite companion.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Listen:
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    well that was a strange one. Starts out feeling like we're up for another Blink, and then suddenly mythology building.

    I can only assume - in fact, hope - that the invisibles are going to be this season's Thing, otherwise it just feels odd to have all that attention get wasted on "yeah, just tell them you won't look, honest." and problem solved. Will be disappointed if it never comes back.

    Clara's love life? Bit cringey, and not really feeling it. Acting or script? Prob a bit of both.

    Not sure how I feel about the barn. On the one hand, it's nice to peer behind the curtain at Old Gallifrey a bit, on the other it does take away some of the Doctor's mystery - although I might rip off the 'scared' speeches for my eldest at some point (he was outside playing with friends on broadcast) as he's having terrible nightmares at the mo, maybe they'll help him?

    So, a bit of a mixed bag for me. Still a decent way to pass Saturday evening though.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Spoiler: Listen
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    I want to have liked the episode. It was going so well, but then that last scene happened. But my issue isn't with Clara inspiring the Doctor to not use guns and whatnot. No, I'm fine with that addition to the mythology. My issue is that we were given a lame explanation. I wanted it to be like Midnight. I didn't want to know what the monster actually was. Or if not that, to actually see the hiding creatures. But instead, we got the one ending I don't like. Here's an explanation, and, oh, we're leaving it up to you to puzzle what the blanket was. No. It just feels oddly dissatisfying compared to what happened in Midnight.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    OK, I just watched "Listen". I have two general questions, with the rest of my thoughts in spoilers:

    1) When did Doctor Who become a soap opera?
    2) When are they going to rename the series "Clara" to more accurately reflect its content?
    1) An Unearthly Child (or Castrovalva....or Rose)

    2)Well, see here is the tricky thing. The show is called ''Doctor Who'', but both Peter and Jenna are main characters and stars of the show. So, by rights, each should get roughly 50% of the screen time. You don't want the show being 95% The Doctor with a female companion that just says ''what?'' a couple times and screams.

    And it is not exactly new for New Who. The show has spent tons of time on Rose and her family and Donna and her family and lots of people in between. You can even find a couple shows where The Doctor is little more then a guest star.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    But Clara - she rocked that episode. All the haters can eat it, Clara is officially my favorite companion.
    I was pretty lukewarm about Clara during the whole Impossible Girl storyline, but I am absolutely loving her this season. I still think Donna edges her out, but Clara is definitely becoming one of my favorites.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    I found Listen much better than I expected, I'll go so far as to call it the best of this series so far.

    I like to see the Doctor taking the initiative: that's what I expect from a dynamic hero, he didn't leave Gallifrey because he wanted to spend all his time in bases under siege. Clara is developing in a plausible (albeit not original) way. Personally I enjoyed seeing a little of her personal life - on the other hand I'm not the target audience, the show should be written for viewers much, much younger than me. Mr. Pink has been worth watching, and has the potential for more, not least the potential to be the first male regular since Turlough who isn't merely a joke about how all men are useless. It didn't overuse the monster, and didn't get mired in schmaltz until the end.

    Many years ago, I think in the 1960's, authors competed to write the shortest ever horror story. The winner for a time was something like:
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    The last man on Earth sat alone. There was a knock on the door.
    This record was beaten by:
    Spoiler
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    The last man on Earth sat alone. There was a lock on the door.

    I guess Steven Moffat read those stories too.

    So yes, good work, I enjoyed it much more than factotum did.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    OK, I just watched "Listen". I have two general questions, with the rest of my thoughts in spoilers:

    1) When did Doctor Who become a soap opera?
    The pedantic answer is: early 1963, when it was commissioned by the Serials department instead of as a drama or children's programme. The more serious answer would be that it came with the reboot and a conscious effort to follow the companions' home lives.
    2) When are they going to rename the series "Clara" to more accurately reflect its content?
    I think this is the familiar Moffat overcompensation. In this case, for the blank cipher labelled 'Clara' that was the repeated meme clogging up the previous series. (I don't know why new Who tries to tie unrelated episodes together, I can only suppose it's an audience hook to replace the old cliffhangers.)

    Speaking of overcompensation, the Doctor made several disparaging remarks about Clara's appearance. So he's noticing her, and noticing himself noticing her...
    Spoiler
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    A main house which, you'll note, was nowhere to be seen when John Hurt's Doctor approached the place.
    I don't think that was the original location of the barn, for the same reason it wasn't the original Rose inside it.
    If the whole thing from beginning to end was the Doctor's imagination, how do we explain that...
    You remember those explanations the Doctor kept on giving all the way through? What he said.

    Seriously, Steven, spend your time writing Sherlock and showrunning Who--let other people write the actual episodes, m'kay?
    Seriously, don't. Stick to what you're best at - writing - and let a professional producer get to work on the tone, continuity and quality control.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    2)Well, see here is the tricky thing. The show is called ''Doctor Who'', but both Peter and Jenna are main characters and stars of the show. So, by rights, each should get roughly 50% of the screen time. You don't want the show being 95% The Doctor with a female companion that just says ''what?'' a couple times and screams.
    *Cough*Mel*Cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    I was pretty lukewarm about Clara during the whole Impossible Girl storyline, but I am absolutely loving her this season. I still think Donna edges her out, but Clara is definitely becoming one of my favorites.
    Spoiler: The Impossible Girl
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    Well it's known that Clara has interacted with every incarnation of the the Doctor due to the climax of that story arc - I don't see any outstanding reason why she couldn't bump into an earlier version of him and significantly affect his life, just like those other times (although this time for good and bad).


    Quote Originally Posted by Sagitta View Post
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    You remember those explanations the Doctor kept on giving all the way through? What he said.
    Spoiler: Listen Dr Who Confidential
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    Actually they cheated a bit - they had the normal sound effect (eg pipes hissing) then underlaid something else, like an animal growl, on the FX track, so it was mostly what you expect, but there was just enough of something else to make you think 'hang on'. It was a bit too blatant in some of them though, like in the spaceship when the pipes and hull are cooling.
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2014-09-13 at 08:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post

    And it is not exactly new for New Who. The show has spent tons of time on Rose and her family and Donna and her family and lots of people in between. You can even find a couple shows where The Doctor is little more then a guest star.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Still catching up on my reviews:

    Spoiler: Into the Dalek
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    So we start of with a space battle! Daleks vs humans! But I'm already annoyed. I really hate when they don't tell you when a story is talking place. The Daleks are attacking the Galaxy? What galaxy? The Milky Way? And there is a ''resistance' fighting them? Defending the galaxy? Ok...

    So the ship explodes, and The Doctor pops in to save Journey Blue. OK. But WHY? He comes in for no reason and saves her? And if he ''does not like solders'', why not just let her die? Why not come in five minutes ago and save her brother too? Why not save all the other resistance fighters that have died? Why not save all the other infinite number of people that have been killed, just by the Daleks alone? How about all the countless innocents?

    So she demands to go to her command ship and The Dcotor waits for a please before doing so. Kind odd she did not say ''Oh when we get to the command ship they will kill you.'' She does not show much gratitude for a guy that just saved her life. And sure enough the stormtroopers on the command ship want to kill The Doctor, and even think he might be a repilicant. This is a great nod to Who History as Dalkes have been using replicalts for a long time. They don't kill him of course, and take him to the wounded Dalek...

    And then we go to Clara at school. Ok, so it has some nice bits and it is development for Clara. Danny Pink is just annoying though. Ok, he was a solder and did something horrible...whatever it was....kinda boring. Then The Doctor pops up and asks Clara for help, not that he needed any, but they need to be together for the rest of the show....so.

    So it is back to the....Aristotle. And that is a weird name for a ship. Ok, so it was a hospital ship. But why would you name a hospital ship after Aristotle? Would not naming the ship after a doctor or mythological healer make much more sense? I'll bet the ship was originally called the Asclepius, as that would make much more sense, but it was changed for some reason. And the show misses a good chance to add a bit of education. Not everyone knows who Aristotle was, so why not inform people? If your going to name the ship after someone real, you can at least take a moment to tell people who they were and all. Otherwise, you might as well name the ship the Healthcare or such.

    So The Doctor finds out the damaged Dalek is good, and gets all excited and wants to fix it. So they use medical miniaturization to go inside. This is a nice touch as it was done in Old Who too. The Doctor sure makes a big deal about how it is the most dangerous place in the universe. But wow is that a lot of hype. I can think of places much more dangerous(like how about just outside the ship in the battle...). And they get to the part where they need to ''get down there'' and out come the zip lines, the Dalek is hurt and out come the antibodies. So.....why did not The Doctor say ''hey everyone, don't hurt the Dalek..or do anything really'' before this happened?

    So then The Doctor, in a move of pure Chaotic Evil, murders Red Shirt Ross. Just.....wow. Ok, and everyone just ignores it. Even, oddly moral Clara. Oh but The Doctor need to find where the goop room is to hide there...ok.

    So then they make it to the bad battery and The Doctor fixes it. And Low and Behold, fixing the Dalek makes it evil again. I doubt very much anyone did not see that coming...except The Doctor and Clara.

    And Clara just goes all silly with the whole ''good Daleks are possible''. Now, sure, this is just a metaphor, for people. And she is trying to make the point that there are no ''always Chaotic Evil'' people, they way fiction is full of ''always Chaotic Evil'' races like the Daleks, the Drow or the Borg. But beyond that, her argument is pointless. A Dalek is a genetically engineered mutant made to not feel ''good'' emotions and be Always Chaotic Evil, combined with a cybernetic computer brain link to keep the Dalek as evil as can be at all times. So...sure...you could re-genetically engineer the Daleks back to a more normal biological race, and remove the cybernetics and the evil computer and the whole pepper-shaker of death......and then you would have a good Dalek. If you could still call what was left a ''Dalek'', because if you did all that, you'd have a Kaled.

    So then Rusty starts killing the resistance folks and calls for help. Then the resistance fights back with.....Lazer Tag Rifles? Ok...I know that Daleks are made out of indestructible Dalekanium, but how do you have a ''resistance'', let alone a ''war'', if one side is indestructible? Is every battle just were the Daleks just kill everyone while they stand around an point their useless zap guns? How can you have a war like that? What is the point if you loose every battle? This comes up in lots of stories, but they really need to make the Daleks not so indestructible.

    But they run around and try and make Rusty good again. Then Red Shirt Gretchen sacrifices herself to get Clara to the Daleks Light Bright Room. So then they turn the Dalek's memories back on...and The Doctor links with Rusty.....to show him what good is? The Doctor? The Doctor that murdered Ross a couple minutes ago? The Doctor that let Blues brother die? The Doctor that has killed more Daleks then anyone else in the universe? Guess it is easy to forget when your a mass murderer that commits genocide all the time. But Rusty see it all. And it twists his ''Sort of Good'' into ''Doctor's Evil, but lets call it Good''.

    Then Rusty kills the other Daleks and gets the humans to escape. Rusty tells The Doctor he is a good Dalek...and that is so true. The Doctor does the Very Classic leave at the end, does not let solder Blue join and takes Clara back to school for her date.

    And you get the hanging question: is the Twelfth Doctor a good man? Well....no. How about that Chaotic Evil move where you killed Ross? How about when you fixed Rusty back to E-vil Da-lek and he started to kill people? How about when you mind melded with Rusty to make him full of vengeance like you? But sure, Clara ignores all that and says ''well you try yo be, that is what is important''. What? Um...no. You have to ''try'' harder then what the Doctor does to be considered good. You can just ''make campfires to keep everyone warm...burn down the town..and say that you were trying to keep people warm so your good''.

    Things That Don't Make Sense: So the Aristotle hid behind an asteroid like ten feet from a Dalek battle saucer, and did not get spotted? Did it have some sort of cloak?

    Why don't the Dalek antibodies scan and detect things all the time? They sit around and wait for damage, and then they act? Why not have wandering ''patrols''? Why don't Daleks have intruder alert alarms?

    Why did not anyone disable Rusty when he was ''sick''? You know, like disarm him? Why did not The Doctor remove a sparkplug or something?

    The episode kind skips as to...how did everyone get out of Rusty and grow? Did I miss a part were they all went back to the Fantastic Capsule and were pulled back out of Rusty's eye?

    So when Rusty sent his message of ''resistance ship location'', er, why did the Daleks not just blow up the whole ship?

    Missy So Missy grabs Gretchen into the Promised Land of Heaven why exactly? Gretchen committed an act of pure self sacrifice. She gave her life so that others could live and other be saved...so, good, good, good. So why does Missy grab her? The Doctor really had nothing to do with her death directly. Unless your going for ''she would not have been in danger unless it was for The Doctor'', but if your going to fill up the place with every person who dies just as The Doctor is around and does something stupid, unwise, reckless, idiotic, useless, pointless, childish or just plain wrong......then your going to need a huge, huge, huge place.

    And why does Missy not grab Ross? You know, the guy the Chaotic Evil Doctor murdered in cold blood on a whim? He would make a much better addition to ''Doctor Revenge Heaven''


    Still, it was (mostly) a future Episode...and I like them better then ''being in present day London..again.'' And it had Daleks. So I like it. Though I'm still annoyed that we don't know when the episode was....


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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    You can even find a couple shows where The Doctor is little more then a guest star.
    So far this entire season has been like that, though--it's always Clara out-thinking the enemy while the Doctor is little more than a petulant child doing what Teacher tells him to do. It even happened in last week's episode, which for me was the highlight of the season so far--it couldn't get away from Clara being in control throughout, though.

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    Heck, in yesterday's episode she even gets to fly the TARDIS while the Doctor is incapacitated!

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
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    Heck, in yesterday's episode she even gets to fly the TARDIS while the Doctor is incapacitated!
    Spoiler: Permissions
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    Probably only because Sexy let her.


    That reminds me of another thing from the episode:

    Spoiler: More Listen spoilers
    Show
    After the Orson drags the Doctor back into the TARDIS, we hear the Cloister Bell. If the thing was only in the Doctor's mind, then why did the Bell ring? It's not as if being in a hostile environment is going to harm the TARDIS, so something must have triggered it.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagitta View Post
    Speaking of overcompensation, the Doctor made several disparaging remarks about Clara's appearance.
    I've noticed that in the past few episodes (certainly the first two of the series, not sure about the third?). I think it's meant to be the Doctor now being bluntly honest or something, but I could really do without him repeatedly calling Clara fat and ugly. It's a running joke I'm not finding funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagitta View Post
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    You remember those explanations the Doctor kept on giving all the way through? What he said.
    Spoiler
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    I think that's probably what they were going for, but:

    If that's meant to just be a kid, it is one hell of a creepy-looking kid. They were also seriously dedicated to their prank.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    So am I alone in initially mishearing Orson's name as "Awesome"?
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    So far this entire season has been like that, though--it's always Clara out-thinking the enemy while the Doctor is little more than a petulant child doing what Teacher tells him to do. It even happened in last week's episode, which for me was the highlight of the season so far--it couldn't get away from Clara being in control throughout, though.

    Spoiler
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    Heck, in yesterday's episode she even gets to fly the TARDIS while the Doctor is incapacitated!
    Yes, but it totally worked for Robots of Sherwood. I enjoyed seeing the Doctor try to be the serious man in a very silly room.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebon_Drake View Post
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    I think that's probably what they were going for, but:

    If that's meant to just be a kid, it is one hell of a creepy-looking kid. They were also seriously dedicated to their prank.
    Spoiler
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    Again, while I don't mind Clara inspiring the Doctor to be peaceful, I think that scene ruined the episode. I think it would have been much better if it wasn't explained, so that could be some enigmatic Midnight-entity-like alien we never find out about. It would have been much better than the Doctor just being afraid of the dark and that (possibly) being a mischievous kid.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yana View Post
    So am I alone in initially mishearing Orson's name as "Awesome"?
    No you're not. Given that it was only two episodes ago that we had a character called Journey Blue, Awesome Pink sounded like a reasonable enough name to me. It wasn't until I saw it written on the news broadcast that I realised. He'll always be called Awesome in my head-canon.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yana View Post
    So am I alone in initially mishearing Orson's name as "Awesome"?
    It took me a while but the first time his name was mentioned I was sure someone named his kid "Awesome Pink"... not sure what the parent's motive was, though. I do feel obliged to give my kid at least the second name Orson now... So (s)he can decide to go by it.


    Spoiler: (Hey) Listen
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    It was... good. Not great. There were definitely issues. Unless we learn something about whatever was under the blanket in the future I will be seriously annoyed. Because as Ebon pointed out, there definitely was something under it. And it was surely not another child.
    The spookiness worked also pretty well for me and they used the "scariest is what you don't see" very well. Albeit, I guess you can chunk it down to the Doctor's special attitude toward the problem this time but... what's the point of it now? The Doctor sets out to find out what it is and when he meets it (or presumably does so) he turns away and doesn't try to communicate with it? So either he is too scared, then why start the hunt for it, or he respects its... life choices... whatever and doesn't want to find it. Same question, why look for it? Oh well, it's not that bad...


    @General "Clara" discussion... I like her? I mean, not as much as I'm maybe supposed to, but then I rarely do, but I like her well enough. I absolutely don't mind her being capable even if this means she beats the Doctor sometimes. The Doctor may not be human but I prefer a Doctor with flaws over RTD's Jesus Tinkerbell Messiah Doctor any day. And in the same vein... I like getting background on the Doctor, knowing what made him what he is. I don't insist on it but I certainly don't mind. Though I'll admit the problem when most of this mostly seems to apply to more recent incarnations and not so much to older ones.
    Last edited by Kato; 2014-09-14 at 03:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    I don't have a problem liking Clara, and I don't have a problem with her being capable. However, she really shouldn't be *more* capable than a super-intelligent 2000-year-old alien who's been to the ends of the universe and back--that's just silly. You could just about justify it in "Into the Dalek" because the Doctor's own historic aversion to the creatures was naturally colouring his outlook, but that excuse doesn't work for the other episodes.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    That reminds me of another thing from the episode:

    Spoiler: More Listen spoilers
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    After the Orson drags the Doctor back into the TARDIS, we hear the Cloister Bell. If the thing was only in the Doctor's mind, then why did the Bell ring? It's not as if being in a hostile environment is going to harm the TARDIS, so something must have triggered it.
    The Cloister Bell rings for anything these days, it rang out when The Doctor collapsed on the the bank of the Thames in Deep Breath.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    I really liked this episode. Some parts felt a bit disjointed and rushed, but I did like the concept, and it had a nice, creepy atmosphere, enough to make me glad it's still pretty light outside. I'm in my bedroom in the basement right now, full of creaks and groans and hissing pipes.

    However I do want two things to be explained.

    Spoiler
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    One is what was under the blanket. I wouldn't mind it being left ambiguous, but as it is it felt like it just got dropped really suddenly, like it was completely forgotten. The whole thing was a bit weird - I don't buy that it was another kid, because no kid would keep up a prank for that long under such strange circumstances. But if it was something so good at hiding, why was it sitting in the bed, clearly visible? Was it because Clara got under the bed and forced it out of its hiding spot? Although I would be surprised if this didn't come back up - after all, there's also the "Listen" written on the chalkboard, so I'm sure they have plans for this.

    The other is how they managed to end up on Gallifrey. Come on, that place is supposed to be locked down tight. "He'll never make it as a Time Lord" was a good shock though.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Review:
    Spoiler: Robot of Sherwood
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    Ok, this was a fun light episode. As long as you don't take it too seriously.

    So The Doctor asks Clara where to go, and she wants to see Robin Hood. So, off they go to Sherwood Forest....of the Errol Flynn's 1938 film The Adventures of Robin Hood.

    Clara just has a grand time in Merry Old England. And The Doctor sure has fun competing with Robin Hood to be more crazy and/or annoying. But it's all fun.

    So the Doctor disarms Robin Hood with a ''Hai'', just like the Third Doctor did all the time. So what the Doctor really using Venusian aikido? Is that what the writers wanted? And if so, why not take like five seconds for the Doctor to say he used Venusian aikido?

    We meet the Merry Men. The Doctor takes a blood sample from Alan-a-Dale, and tells him he only has six months to live. And does nothing. Now, unless The Doctor is joking...you know the ha, ha, funny death joke....I'd point out that a ''good man'' would not just let another die. Not when he could do something to save him. The Doctor does not even try. And, sure, lets say that Alan-a-Dale must die in six months or the Earth will explode or something....then why tell Alan? Why does the Doctor even take the blood sample? And if the Doctor really felt that Alan needed to know...why not have a much more serious heart to heart talk?


    The sheriff is a great villain, a lot like the old Master. The Archery contest was funny...I was waiting for Robin to pull out a Patriot Arrow(or is that too dated now?)

    And they missed a great spot for a great ''Easter Egg''/shout out/nod: To have the Doctor in a sword fight and someone say ''you have no chance I'm the greatest swordsman in Nottingham'' and have the Doctor say ''well, there is something you should know....I'm not from Nottingham'' (from The Princess Bribe by way of Star Trek:TNG: Q-pid.)

    So then the Robots come out of nowhere and need gold to fix their ship. And the Doctor finds the ship and the truth. You get the ''fight at the castle'', where Robin Hood fights and defeats the Sheriff. Now the Sheriff was meant to be a robot/cyborg and get his head cut off....but as Real Life Writes the Plot, they decided to cut that out of the episode. (wonder if it will be on the DVD?)

    The couple of robots escape in their ship, but don't have enough gold to escape....and might blow up England or something. So The Doctor and Robin Hood make up and shot that gold arrow at the ship to...blow it up, high in orbit. Then they says good bye and head off....



    Things That Don't Make Sense: So how does The Doctor not know if Robin Hood is real or not? The Doctor has traveled all over the time and space of Earth and met everyone. And I do really mean everyone. Any person in the whole of history of Earth, The Doctor has met and hung out with. This is what The Doctor does in his free time. It's even more so, when you remember that each and every Doctor goes back and re-meets everyone again for each Regeneration.

    So with The Doctor really, really, really in love with England, more then any place in the world, he just never got around to going to see Robin Hood? Even if The Doctor thought it was a myth, he could still go back to Sherwood forest and see for himself and know for sure.

    So how does The Doctor just land in Sherwood Forest in ''1190ish'' and then just bump into Robin Hood?

    How does The Doctor fight Robin Hood with a spoon? It is a big spoon sure, and it's a funny bit......but you just can't ''sword fight'' with a spoon.


    So the crashed ships damaged engines somehow made the myth and legend of Robin Hood with myth radiation? That is a really odd leak to..um...alter reality.

    So the robots/Sheriff made the taxes so high to get all the gold to fix the ship? Um, they why make that gold arrow?

    And so now we have a second ship of robots from the future heading to ''The Promised Land''. What? Is everyone in the future programing robots with this Promised Land stuff? And how does this ship from the future get lost in the past again? Just like the Deep Breath ones?

    The robots here don't seem to talk....so how did they make a deal with the Sheriff? Was the Sheriff a human, cyborg or robot?

    Missy No Missy? So why did the Sheriff of Nottingham not get to go to ''The Promised Land of Heaven''? Just because the Doctor did not personally kill him? Well, he did not kill Gretchen either, but she ended up there....

    Last edited by jedipotter; 2014-09-14 at 10:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post


    Spoiler
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    Again, while I don't mind Clara inspiring the Doctor to be peaceful, I think that scene ruined the episode. I think it would have been much better if it wasn't explained, so that could be some enigmatic Midnight-entity-like alien we never find out about. It would have been much better than the Doctor just being afraid of the dark and that (possibly) being a mischievous kid.
    I'm with you on this one.

    Spoiler
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    Also, I was totally expecting the creatures to be related to The Silence.


    One thing this episode did do - it sold me on Peter Capaldi as the Doctor. The last few episodes I hadn't really bought it, but Capaldi was by far the best thing in this episode. I'm excited to see him doing more serious plots now. For the goofy Doctor, I remain a Matt Smith devotee.

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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Review:
    Spoiler: Robot of Sherwood
    Show
    Was the Sheriff a human, cyborg or robot?
    This was explained in part of the Robin/Sheriff fight that got edited out at the last minute, because real world context had suddenly made it rather distasteful and insensitive.
    Spoiler: Robot of Sherwood
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    Basically, the Sheriff was a cyborg. At one point Robin would have cut off the Sheriff's head, but the head would have kept talking and his body would have kept fighting. He would have explained that the ship had actually crashed onto him and the robots had used their tech to rebuild his body. His head then got casually reattached and it then led into his vague line about being "half man, half machine" or somesuch which doesn't really make sense without the previous context.

    The rough pre-production version of the edited-out scene can actually be found online as this was one of the episodes that got leaked in advance, but I'm wary about posting a link as I think that would break forum rules.


    Edit: I just re-read your post and saw you were aware that that part of the episode got edited out. I'll leave my post here anyway in case you (and others) weren't aware of the actual details of the cut.
    Last edited by Ebon_Drake; 2014-09-15 at 06:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    Quote Originally Posted by Yana View Post
    So am I alone in initially mishearing Orson's name as "Awesome"?
    no you're not. in fact I'm a little disappointed that that's not his actual name.

    Spoiler: Listen
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    so.. this episode probably has a lot of fans foaming at the mouth in terms of it messing with canon (or at least giving the impression of doing so) in half a dozen ways, in somehow rewriting Clara's impact on the Doctor (wasn't she at risk of meeting herself, or has her "gently guiding the Doctor in all his incarnations" thing been removed from history?).. there's also the consideration that I'm rather surprised that Gallifrey was accessible. I thought it was perma-timelocked.. (the thought being that if only the time-war is timelocked, then there's no reason not to go back to "prior Gallifrey" on a regular basis or even to rewrite stuff along the way... so the entirety of Gallifrey's history should be timelocked, in theory).
    Two main criticisms would be that
    1) Clara should have brought the Doctor in the loop with regards to the identity of her date and her actions when his back was turned.
    2) the mistery stays open on what the crap was under the blanket (we're ruling out a prankster fellow child from the home, I guess?)... who opened the doors and whatnot. I'm also mildly perturbed by the notion of a sleepwalking/memory altering Timelord... otherwise it doesn't explain how he wrote "listen" and then forgot he did. is that going to happen more often? is his fear of the dark going to be a thing? also.. why did the Vashta Nerada not even get a nod? you'd think they should, if only to mention they're not around anymore because there are no trees/paper/books left.
    That said, the episode was brilliant in constructing suspence and causing a few scary moments, especially so in the first half. It was all considered good entertainment, well acted, with a few behind the sofa moments and a reasonably well put together plot, which is really all you should expect from a Doctor Who episode.
    As much as I disliked "zany/trying to be funny" Capaldi last episode, he pulls off the scary "Uncle Creepy" role better than, I think, any other nu-who Doctor I've seen...
    so, all considered, a definite step up in quality, entertainment value and character, compared to last episode.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    The entirety of Gallifreyan history should be timelocked, even "before" the Time War. Or at least time travelling to Gallifrey outside of your "original" time is distasteful and taboo to timelords. At least that was the impression I got from the audio stories.

    Otherwise, they should have all known the truth about Rassilon, Omega et al a long time ago.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2014-09-15 at 06:43 AM.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    I thought as much, which makes the whole thing a bit of a sore point in the episode, I guess.
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    Default Re: Doctor Who Thread VI: "The Very Model of a Gallifreyan Buccaneer" [SPOILERS]

    1) He deactivated the safeguards

    and

    2) At some point he has to join the others in the 50th special to "freeze" Gallifrey once his TARDIS finishes the calculations to pull that off.

    Should I have spoilered that?

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