Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeey, so this isn't quite finished just yet, I still need to add the new fluff and stuff, but mechanics should be down right now. Fluff to come! Also, as noted above, this will be part of a three-part mega project that I am calling Blood, Bone and Spirit, and it will include a class for each of those, as well as related subclasses, feats, backgrounds and possibly races. Who knows, right?

    First off, this class (the Sanguine Knight) is one that I made about a year ago now, and I am more than happy to try and convert it. (If you want to see its 3.5 version, click this link: Clicky clicky). This one will be a bit more tame, and I am trying to shoot for a class that can fill in the tank role without stealing the Bear Totem barbarian or (any) paladin's spotlight... Hopefully, I am doing alright. Feel free to jab me in the eye if I am failing at everything.

    The Sanguine Knight

    A Blood-Sworn Protector: The sanguine knight is unique among his peers for his often misunderstood positions and roles in a battle. Most people confuse them for blood knights and warlords, following the path of the sanguine like vampires for their own personal gain... but this stigmata is only true in the smallest of all cases. More often, the sanguine knight is a man with a deeper, natural connection to his body and the blood of others, and this gives him a deeper sense of empathy and respect for the lives of others. This connection gives him enhanced abilities, as well as the power to literally take a friend or loved one's wounds upon himself, sacrificing his own body for their good. This being said, there are some sanguine knights who give themselves the title "blood lord", who more than live up to the reputation and feed it, giving their souls and very humanities to become... something terrifying.

    They are also misunderstood because of their title. While a sanguine knight may act noble or be incredibly loyal, he has not, in fact, ever been knighted. Or at least, it is not very likely, as often a sanguine knight comes from common stock and there is no real order that they dedicate themselves to, which does not really lead to the most chivalrous of all paths. Because of this, the sanguine knight will tend to refer to himself by his chosen discipline instead of this misnomer of a title, hoping to shape themselves and their reputations more by their chosen path than the unfortunate reputation that comes with their class.

    Natural soldiers: The abilities of a sanguine knight almost seem to steer their lives towards violence, and they become naturally hardened towards the hardships and chaos of the battlefield. Whether they become pillars of invulnerability and beacons of strength for their allies, tyrants who lord over their foes and allies alike, or someone who walks the narrow line between being a walking weapon and a protector.

    Creating a Sanguine Knight

    Level Proficiency bonus Class features
    1 +2 Blood bond, bonded communication
    2 +2 Fighting style, natural healer
    3 +2 Crimson pledge feature
    4 +2 Ability score improvement
    5 +3 Extra attack
    6 +3 Clear blood, Crimson revelry
    7 +3 Crimson pledge feature
    8 +3 Ability score improvement
    9 +4 Enhanced body
    10 +4 Crimson pledge feature
    11 +4 Bonded transposition
    12 +4 Ability score improvement
    13 +5 Mettle
    14 +5 Bonded concentration
    15 +5 Crimson pledge feature
    16 +5 Ability score improvement
    17 +6 Bonded resurgence
    18 +6 Enhanced body
    19 +6 Ability score improvement
    20 +6 Crimson pledge feature

    Class Features
    Hit Points
    Hit Dice: 1d12 per level of sanguine knight
    Hit Points at 1st Level: 12+your Constitution modifier
    Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d12+your Constitution modifier

    Proficiencies
    Armor: All armor and shields
    Weapons: All simple and martial weapons
    Tools: None
    Saving throws: Constitution and Charisma
    Skills: Choose any two of Athletics, Acrobatics, Insight, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature, Perception or Survival

    Quick build
    You can make a sanguine knight quickly by following these suggestions. First make your Constitution your highest score, with either dexterity or strength as a close second (depending on your chosen fighting style). Second, choose the Soldier, Folk Hero or Child of War background.

    Equipment
    (a)Chain mail or (b) leather, longbow and 20 arrows
    (a)A martial one handed weapon and shield or (b) a martial two handed weapon or (c) a one handed martial weapon and 20 gold
    (a)A Dungeoneer's pack or (b) an Adventurer's pack.

    Abilities
    Blood Bond: Starting at level 1 the sanguine knight can link himself to another living creature, allowing him to divert damage from that creature to himself. Every time a creature with a blood bond would take damage, the sanguine knight may choose to divert up to half the damage from any incoming damage source. A sanguine knight may create 1 blood bond at level 1, and may form an extra bond at level 5, 10, 15 and 20, to a maximum of 5. Only a living creature may be given a blood bond.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Just to make an example, for the sake of examples, let's say that we have two level 1 characters, one is Tim the Tiny (a random peasant with 6 hp) and the other is his blood bonded brother, Sam the Sanguine.

    While adventuring, a hobgoblin rolls an attack against Tim and lands a hit. When the hobgoblin rolls for damage, it gets a 9 after all of the modifiers/ abilities are added up. This would normally mean that Tim needs to make death rolls. However, since Sam has a blood bond with Tim, he may absorb up to half of the incoming damage, reducing the damage dealt to Tim by 4, meaning that Sam takes 4 damage while Tim takes 5, and allowing Tim to stay standing (though, likely almost incapacitated anyway... because peasants suck. )


    Bonded communication: The blood bond is a living network that the sanguine knight and his allies can use for more than just combat. Starting at level 1 the sanguine knight and blood bonded allies within 100' of him may communicate with one another telepathically. This communication tends to be primitive, the transmission of images, scents, sounds and communication instead of literal verbal communication. The sanguine knight's connection to his bonded allies grants him advantage on is intuition checks to determine the emotional state of his allies, and to determine if they are lying to him.

    Fighting Style: At level 2 the sanguine knight may choose one fighting style from the following style list:
    -Defense: While wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
    -Dueling: When you are wielding a weapon in one hand and no other weapons, your weapon gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls.
    -Protection: When a creature you can see attacks a creature other than you within 5’ of you, you may use your reaction to impose disadvantage on that creature’s next attack roll. You must be wielding a shield to use this ability.

    Natural Healer: The body of a sanguine knight will react more positively to any forms of recovery, firing off a surge of adrenaline to enhance the healing energies. At level 6 when the sanguine knight is healed by any effect he adds his proficiency bonus to the amount of damage healed.

    Blood pledge: Upon reaching level 3, the sanguine knight decides on which of his natural talents to nurture and master for the rest of his life. He selects between one of three subclasses, the Immortal, Sanguine Blade and Blood Lord, and gains the abilities associated with each at levels 3, 7, 10, 15 and 20.

    Clear Blood: Upon reaching level 6, the sanguine knight gains advantage whenever he rolls to save against any effect that deals poison damage, and against any disease. He is immune to the poisoned condition.

    Crimson Revelry: Starting at level 6 the sanguine knight’s body reacts to the chaos of battle, rapidly repairing his wounds and restoring his stamina. At the beginning of his turn if a creature other than the sanguine knight was injured, he will heal up to his constitution bonus in hit points. Crimson revelry will not heal a sanguine knight that is making death saving throws.

    Enhanced Body: At level 9 the sanguine knight learns how to improve his body in one of six ways, selecting one of the abilities below. At level 18 he may select a second ability. Only your levels of sanguine knight count towards your advancement in this selection.
    -Strength of Blood: All parts of the body are connected, and the sanguine knight knows how to use this to increase his physical power. He gains proficiency on all strength saving throws, and he gains proficiency in Athletics. If he already had proficiency, then he gains expertise in athletics and doubles his carrying capacity instead.
    -Reflexive Core: Making his body far more reflexive and always at the ready, the sanguine knight gains proficiency on all dexterity saving throws, and if he passes a dexterity saving throw with a partial effect, he instead takes no effect.
    -Unbroken Heart: Becoming ever closer to the unkillable heroes of legend, the sanguine knight enhances his already great stamina even further. Upon selection of this enhancement, the sanguine knight gains advantage on all constitution saving throws, adds +2 to his constitution score, and his maximum constitution score becomes 22. This is an exception to the rule that a character’s attributes may not normally be above 20.
    -Crimson Intellect: Knowing that sometimes a warrior’s greatest weapon is not the one in his hand, but the one in his head, the sanguine knight learns to sharpen his intellect. Upon selection of this enhancement, the sanguine knight gains proficiency in intelligence saving throws and any two intelligence skills. If he fights a creature that who's lore is associated with any intelligence skill he has, he gains a +2 bonus on any attack rolls he makes against them.
    -Body and Mind: Using the durability of his body to solidify the fortress of his mind, the sanguine knight gains proficiency in wisdom saves. Additionally, he may add his constitution modifier to his wisdom saving throws instead of his normal modifier.
    -Speaker of Blood: Learning how to tap into his natural willpower and talent for leadership, the sanguine knight becomes the leader that he was born to be. Upon selection of this enhancement, the sanguine knight gains advantage on charisma saving throws, and he gains proficiency in the Persuasion skill. If he already had proficiency in Persuasion, then he may select a different charisma skill to gain proficiency in.

    Bonded transposition: At level 11, the sanguine knight may use their connection through the blood bond to physically swap places with one of their bonded allies. As a reaction to an ally being hit by an attack in melee range within 100', the sanguine knight may immediately switch positions with them, becoming the new target of the attack and moving his ally out of harm's way. This movement does not provoke an opportunity attack if it moves the bonded ally out of the enemy's reach. The intercepted attack roll is remade, and if it hits then damage is dealt as normal. Bonded transposition may be used once per short rest.

    Mettle: The sanguine knight eventually learns how to handle the hardships of the world, overcoming the charms, fears and overwhelming powers that threaten him more completely than any other. Starting at level 13 whenever he succeeds on a constitution or charisma saving throw with a partial or half effect, the sanguine knight instead takes no effect. On a failed save, he only takes the half or partial effect instead.

    Bonded concentration: Beginning at level 14, the sanguine knight is able to assume control of an ally's ongoing concentration effect through the blood bond. As an action, the sanguine knight may become the new controller of a spell or ability with a duration that includes concentration in its descriptor. he then controls the spell, making concentration saving throws when applicable, and if the spell has a range of self, gaining the benefits it confers. If the spell may be re-targeted, then the sanguine knight may do so as per the spell's entry, otherwise the targets of the spell remain the same. Regardless of the spell's normal duration, a concentration spell transferred in this way has its remaining duration lowered or raised to 1 minute, at which point it immediately ends. Bonded concentration may be used once per short rest.

    Bonded resurgence: At level 17 the sanguine knight's mastery of the blood bond makes it so that his allies have a rather hard time dying. The first time a blood bonded ally would be dropped to less than 0 hit points per long rest but not killed outright, the sanguine knight may use his reaction to make it so that the ally is at 1 hit point instead. Bonded resurgence may be used once per long rest.

    Subclasses

    Spoiler: The Immortal
    Show
    The Immortal

    Fluffy stuff:

    Level Ability
    3 Diehard, enhanced body
    7 Bonded defense
    10 Bonded resilience
    15 Bonded pariah
    20 Undying

    Diehard: The immortal begins his path early, being far, far more difficult to kill than any other man. Starting at level 3, the immortal must fail six death saving rolls instead of three whenever he would be reduced to 0 or lower hit points, and he adds his proficiency bonus to the death saving throw. Additionally, he may continue to act during these rolls, not falling unconscious as a normal character. He may take a move or bonus action without penalty, and if he succeeded on his original death saving throw he may make an action at the cost of rerolling the saving throw. He may not make reactions. Any attack rolls or skill checks made while at 0 hit points are made at disadvantage.

    Enhanced body: An immortal’s body is superior to even another sanguine knight’s. At level 3, he may select an enhancement from the list that a sanguine knight can draw from at level 9. This brings him to 3 possible enhancements at level 18.

    Bonded defense: The immortal and his bonded members share a special link, allowing them to see through each other’s eyes and avoid the attacks of enemies more easily. At level 7, the immortal and any creature he has established a blood bond with increases their armor class by +1 as long as at least one member is bonded to the immortal. At level 15, this bonus to armor class increases to +2. This bonus stacks with all other bonuses to armor class.

    Bonded resilience: Giving the strength of his body to increase the durability of his allies, the immortal improves the resilience of his bonded members. Starting at level 10, allies that the immortal has bonded have certain saving throws bolstered by their bond to the immortal. They gain half of the immortal’s constitution bonus as a bonus on saving throws that the immortal himself is proficient.

    Spoiler
    Show
    For example, an immortal that has a +4 constitution bonus and proficiency in strength, dexterity, constitution and charisma would grant a +2 bonus to each of these saving throws to creatures bonded to him.


    Bonded pariah: The immortal is more capable of taking the pains and hardships of his allies than a normal sanguine knight. Starting at level 15, he may activate this ability as a bonus action to divert all damage from his blood-bonded allies. As long as bonded pariah is active, allies do not have to make death saving throws and they do not have to roll to maintain concentration checks. Bonded pariah may be used for up to three rounds per short rest, and automatically ends if the immortal begins making death saving throws. Rounds do not have to be used consecutively, and bonded pariah may be ended as a reaction or bonus action.

    Undying: Enhancing his body and improving his abilities as much as he can to live up to his name, the immortal becomes almost impossible to kill. At level 20, the immortal increases his constitution score by +4, to a maximum of 24. If he has the unbroken heart body enhancement, his maximum constitution score is 26 instead. Additionally if the immortal is forced to make death saving throws, he automatically succeeds on the saving throw and may freely make actions as per his diehard ability. If he is damaged while at 0 hit points, he may make a constitution saving throw (DC 10 or 1/2 damage dealt, whichever is greater) to negate any failed saving throws the hit would impose. Undying may be used once per long rest.


    Spoiler: Sanguine Blade
    Show
    The Sanguine Blade

    Fluffery stuffery

    Level
    3 Adrenaline surge, cruor blade
    7 Bonded assault
    10 Sweeping blade
    15 Bonded retaliation
    18 Draining blade

    Adrenaline Surge: The sanguine blade's body is a honed weapon, meant to fight hardest when he is put under the most extreme of pressures. Starting at level 3, the sanguine blade gains advantage on all melee attack rolls once he is reduced below 1/2 of his maximum hit points. At level 10 he gains advantage on dexterity saving throws when he is at less than 1/2 hit points, and at level 17 he may use his bonus action to make an extra melee attack against any creature in reach once he has less than 1/2 of his maximum hit points. He may only stay in this state for 5 rounds per short rest, and being healed to more than 1/2 his hit point maximum drops him out of the adrenaline surge. Only levels in sanguine knight count towards the advancement of this ability.

    Cruor Blade: Starting on the path to be one of the most lethal weapons he can be, the sanguine blade takes command of those that he strikes with his weapon, ripping it from them to increase his reach. Starting at level 3, the sanguine blade coats his weapon with blood. A cruor blade must deal slashing or piercing damage, and must be a melee weapon. The first time he strikes an enemy with blood or other vital fluids, the weapon that the sanguine blade is wielding has its reach increased by 5’. Alternately, the sanguine blade can take the average damage of his weapon’s damage dice (rounded up) as a bonus action, using his own blood to coat the blade. Cruor blade lasts until the sanguine blade fails to damage a creature for 5 rounds or until dismissed as a free action. Only one weapon may be a cruor blade at a time.

    Bonded Assault: Drawing strength from his allies, the sanguine blade hits harder than he should. Starting at level 7, the sanguine blade and his bonded allies within 60' increase the damage on their damage rolls by +2. This damage bonus only modifies weapon attacks. At level 12 the radius increases to 120', and at level 17 all bonded allies on the same plane as the sanguine blade gain this damage bonus.

    Sweeping Blade: Starting at level 10, the blood of the cruor blade begins to sweep out, striking at targets other than the initial target of the attack. After declaring the target of his cruor blade, he may target any one creature within 5' of the original target and makes his attack roll as normal. He uses one attack roll against both creatures. If it hits a secondary target, it will be dealt the weapon’s damage without any strength or dexterity bonus (if any) added to the damage roll.

    Bonded Retaliation: Becoming more fierce in his defense of his allies, the sanguine blade becomes a storm of blood and blades. Starting at level 15 if an enemy strikes one of his blood bonded allies in melee within 60' of the sanguine blade, the sanguine blade may use his reaction to instantly teleport to a space adjacent to his ally and that ally’s attacker, immediately making an attack action against the creature who damaged his ally. All attacks must be made against the creature that damaged his ally. Bonded retaliation may be used once per short rest.

    Draining Blade: Reaching the peak of his skill, the sanguine blade becomes much more lethal and difficult to kill. Starting at level 17 his cruor blade begins to radiate either radiant or necrotic energy as he chooses. Once made, this choice may not be changed. His cruor blade will then deal 1d8 damage of the chosen energy type with every blow, healing the sanguine blade for the energy damage dealt. This damage does not apply to any secondary targets. Any creature damaged by this weapon must make a constitution save (DC 8+Proficiency bonus+Constitution bonus) or suffer one stage of exhaustion. If a creature already has 3 stages of exhaustion, then they must make a saving throw of the same DC or immediately fall asleep for 1d4 rounds.


    Spoiler: Blood Lord
    Show
    Blood Lord

    Fluffikins Wufficans:

    Level Abilities Blood Bolt Damage
    3 Manipulative blood 2d6
    7 Infest corpse 3d6
    10 Blood puppet 4d6
    15 Pain 5d6
    18 Nightmare child 7d6

    Abilities: For abilities that reference a saving throw, the saving throw DC is 8+Proficiency bonus+Constitution modifier.

    Manipulative bond: Starting at level 3, the blood lord may attempt to force a temporary blood bond on an unwilling creature. As an action, he may force an adjacent living creature without a blood bond to make a wisdom saving throw. If they fail, they are treated as if they were bonded to the blood lord and they are friendly towards the blood lord and any of his bonded allies. Finally, the blood lord has advantage on all deception and persuasion skills when interacting with this creature. This blood bond and its effect last for up to one hour, and at the end of this hour the creature immediately becomes hostile to the blood lord and all of his blood bonded allies. Manipulative bond may be used once per short rest. Creatures immune to charm effects are immune to this ability.

    Infest Corpse: With a gesture and a cruel command, the blood lord can manipulate the corpses of those fallen in battle, infecting and desecrating them beyond all recognition. At level 7, the blood lord may infest a corpse with one of the following three effects as an action, gaining the benefits or causing the conditions listed within it. Any corpse that is infested becomes desecrated, and must either be brought to a hallowed area or restored by the spell greater restoration before it can be animated or raised from the dead. Infest corpse may be used twice per short rest, and it requires the blood lord's concentration to start and maintain any of the listed effects.
    -Consume: The blood lord infects a corpse with a small amount of his own blood, slowly converting everything in the corpse to match his own body. Any time in the next 24 hours, the blood lord may activate this effect again to consume all of the converted blood at once, immediately healing himself of 5d8+5 damage and ending the concentration. Consume may be maintained for one day.
    -Nightmare engine: The corpse begins to ooze a black, endlessly shifting pool of shadows that reach out and infect the minds of those around it. For one minute, any creature that starts their turn in or moves adjacent to the corpse must make a wisdom saving throw or immediately fall to their knees and be unable to move or take an action as their thoughts are overwhelmed with the horrors spawned from your depraved mind. A creature may remake this saving throw each turn, freeing themselves on a successful saving throw and becoming immune to the effect of nightmare engine for the next 24 hours. Creatures immune to charm effects, necrotic damage or psychic damage are immune to this ability. Using this ability consumes two uses of your infest corpse ability. Nightmare engine may be maintained for up to one minute.
    -Putrefy: You cause the corpse to emit a sickening, blinding aura of disease. Any creature that starts their turn or moves within 10' of the corpse must make a constitution saving throw or be at disadvantage on all of their actions until they manage to start their turn outside of the aura. In addition, you may select any one disease to infest the corpse with, causing all creatures within the same 20' radius to make a saving throw against contracting the disease. Diseases created by this ability go through their full incubation period as normal, and are treated in all other ways as if they were normal diseases. Putrefy may be maintained for 1 hour.

    Blood Puppet: The blood lord may twist his bonds with living creatures, animating the flesh to make a perfectly obedient servant. Starting at level 7, the blood lord may spend a blood bond on a 10 minute action to animate any medium or small sized humanoid corpse that has not been dead for more than one year. Even corpses with nothing more than a skeletal structure can be animated, as a blood puppet’s body and flesh will be restored to a life-like state, making the fact that they are dead almost impossible to detect from a casual glance. A blood puppet has no true life, memories, mental capabilities or will, they are literally just an extension of the blood lord’s psyche. As such, anything that targets the blood puppet’s mind or will such as charm spells and fear effects target the blood lord instead. He may intricately control every action of the puppet, giving it instructions and speaking through it as a bonus action, and he may see and hear what the puppet sees and hears as a move action.

    A blood puppet has no hit points, and if dealt damage it will not show any signs of it. Instead, all damage dealt to the puppet is transferred directly to the blood lord, and is not mitigated by any damage resistance the blood lord may possess. The blood puppet may wear light or medium armor, may wield any simple weapons that the blood lord has proficiency in, and shares magic item attunement slots with the blood lord. A blood puppet may make a single attack each round. At level 12, the puppet may make a second attack. The blood puppet has a strength and constitution score equal to the blood lord's constitution score, and had a dexterity score of 10. The puppet uses the blood lord’s saving throw bonuses if it is forced to make one and must remain within 1 mile of the blood lord.The blood puppet uses its physical stats for strength and dexterity skill checks, and your mental stats and proficiency bonus for intelligence, wisdom and charisma checks. The blood puppet has disadvantage on passive perception checks. Finally, the blood puppet has a base movement speed of 30' if they are medium sized, and 25' if they are small.

    The blood lord may remove their blood bond from their puppet at any time, causing it to once again become a lifeless corpse, perfectly preserved and undamaged. Only one puppet may be animated at any time. Additionally, you may select one of the following augments to modify your existing blood puppet. You may change your selected augmentation at the end of a long rest:
    -Accurate: Your blood puppet adds your proficiency bonus to its attack rolls.
    -Attuned: Your blood puppet may attune one magic item to itself. This items is not counted as items attuned by you.
    -Durable: Your blood puppet has resistance to all damage, reducing all damage dealt to you via your connection to the blood puppet by half. Magic weapons ignore this resistance.
    -Powerful: Damage from your blood puppet's attacks are treated as if they are made with a magic weapon, even if they do not have one attuned. Additionally, your blood puppet adds your proficiency bonus to all athletics and acrobatics checks it makes.
    -Threatening: You have advantage on intimidation checks you make against creatures within 10' of your blood puppet.

    Pain: Reaching out to take over the blood of a nearby creature, the blood lord causes the creature a blinding pain. Starting at level 15, the blood lord may spend an action to attempt to cause a creature within 60' excruciating pain, imposing disadvantage on all of a target creature’s attack rolls, and reducing the creature’s movement speed by 10’. A constitution saving throw may be made to resist this attempt. Maintaining pain requires the blood lord’s concentration, and a creature may re-attempt their constitution saving throw every minute, ending the effect on a successful saving throw. A creature is inflicted with these penalties for as long as they remain on the same plane as the blood lord.

    A blood lord may suppress or enforce pain as a bonus action, regardless of how distant the creature is from the blood lord. While suppressed, the subject does not make any saving throws to remove the effect and the blood lord does not need to maintain concentration, but the target also does not suffer from disadvantage or movement reduction from this ability. If the blood lord later decides to enforce pain the creature may immediately make a new saving throw and the blood lord must maintain his concentration again. On a failed save, they once again suffer from the negative effects of pain, while on a successful save they are no longer subjected to the effect. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to this ability. Pain may be used once per long rest, but may be activated or suppressed on any currently inflicted targets at-will. Only living humanoids and beasts may be affected by cripple.

    Additionally, you may select one of the following augments to modify all of your blood bolts. You may change your selected augmentation at the end of a long rest:
    -Detain: A creature that fails their saving throw against your pain ability has their movement speed reduced to 0 until they succeed on their saving throw or until you suppress the ability. Additionally, a creature under the effects of your pain will have disadvantage on all strength and dexterity rolls, including saving throws and skill checks.
    -Soul twist: You may target undead, elementals and constructs with your pain ability. If you succeed on imposing pain and later suppress the effect and change which augment you have active, then the creature will automatically succeed on their saving throw if you attempt to impose pain unless you swap the augment back to soul twist.
    -Unbreakable: After a creature fails their first saving throw against your pain ability, subsequent saving throws are made at disadvantage.

    Nightmare child: Reaching the pinnacle of his fell craft, the blood lord is a horror to even look at. At level 20 he generates a black aura that infects those around him, boiling their blood with their most primal fears, sapping their will to fight, and driving them away. Whenever a hostile creature moves within 30' of the blood lord, they must make a charisma saving throw or be inflicted with the frightened condition and spend their actions running away from the blood lord for one minute. A creature may only be frightened once every 24 hours by this ability. Creatures immune to the frightened status are immune to this effect. The blood lord himself becomes immune to all fear effects, and he gains advantage on saving throws against charm effects.
    Last edited by Gnomes2169; Yesterday at 04:43 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Spoiler: Race, feats and backgrounds
    Show
    So here are some associated feats and backgrounds for the Blood section of Blood, Bone and Spirit, and a new race too! Just to see how crazy I can get here.

    Spoiler: Feats
    Show
    Bonded in Blood
    +1 constitution
    -You may create a blood bond with a creature, taking up to half of the damage the creature is dealt from any attack, spell or other effect. If you already have the ability to create blood bonds, then you may increase the number of bonds you can make by +1.
    -If you or your bonded target are healed by any source, the other one is healed of up to 1d6+1 damage.
    Special: You may take this feat multiple times, increasing the number of bonds by +1 and the amount you and your partners heal by +5.

    Death by a Thousand Cuts
    -Whenever you deal damage with a weapon, the creature that you damaged will bleed at the start of its round, taking 1 damage for every time they were struck. The creature will continue to take this damage at the beginning of their turn until they are subjected to a DC 10 heal check, healed by magic or healed by a regenerative effect. Creatures that are immune to critical hits are immune to this damage.
    -You may choose to sacrifice your strength or dexterity bonus on damage rolls (whichever applies) to increase the number of attacks you can make with each weapon you are wielding by 1, to a maximum of 2 extra attacks per action. Sneak attack and other forms of bonus damage from class features are not applied on these extra attacks.
    -After successfully damaging a creature with an attack, all further attacks on the same round will be made with advantage.

    More to come, eventually


    Spoiler: Backgrounds
    Show
    Child of War
    You were born in a war-torn country, and your history reflects this. Whether you were the only survivor of the ransacking of your birth city or you come from a long line of weary soldiers and broken families, you have had to live on your own for years, and have become quite self-sufficient and hearty because of it. You may not be who people look at and think of as a hero, and you are definitely not a leader, but you have lived outside of society for long enough that neither of these things bother or influence you. Instead, you adventure for your own purposes, though what those might be are for you alone to know...

    Skill proficiencies: Stealth, Survival
    Tool proficiency: Mounts
    Languages: One language of your choice
    Equipment: A locket or other keepsake that belonged to someone important, tinder and flint, a first aid kit, 50’ of rope, a dagger, the tool you have proficiency with.
    Defining event: Something traumatic happened to end your mostly peaceful life, leaving you stranded and alone in a world that gave you no second chances. Instead of falling like so many in your situation would, you instead thrived, and you set off to find your own fortune. Decide or randomly determine what this event was and how you reacted to it by referencing the tables below.
    d8 Personality trait
    1 My hometown was destroyed by a particularly vicious attack
    2 My family was part of a guild war and were among the casualties
    3 I was part of my country’s army, and was the only survivor of my company after a one-sided defeat.
    4 My family was part of a criminal organization that was eliminated by its competition.
    5 I am part of a church who lost to a rival god’s disciples in a particularly bloody confrontation.
    6 I was kidnapped and held hostage by a rival noble house, I barely escaped with my from my captors and ignited a war in the progress.
    7 I was part of a pioneer caravan that was raided by a bandit army, leaving you stranded in the wilderness.
    8 I was the heir of a merchant empire before it fell into ruin and my brothers and sisters killed each other in the ensuing blood feud
    9 Two groups of outsiders dragged their eternal war onto the mortal plane, leaving me an orphan in the care of a traveling hero who tried and failed to save my home town.
    10 My town was controlled by a tyrannical regime that a group of adventurers removed. The power vacuum that was left behind caused multiple factions to rise up, and I was driven out of the town.

    Feature: Safe House
    After having been forced into hiding and attacked so many times, you know how to make a secure and secret hideaway that you can retreat to. By working for a week you may set up a safe house in a particular city, section of the wilderness or other location. This hideaway is large enough for yourself and up to four other people to live comfortably, and requires a DC 15 investigation check to discover. If you are able to reasonably find or purchase supplies, then you may increase the DC of this check by 5 by either spending 50 gold or one month of work improving the concealment of your safe house. You may have any number of safe houses at any time and you may start the game with a fully developed one in any one city or landmark.

    Suggested characteristics:
    A child of war tends to be cautious, if not outright paranoid. They are loners who take pride in their self-sufficiency, and while they are often seen as arrogant because of it it is often well earned. As well, they are often self-taught in their chosen profession, and look down on the more traditionally schooled members of their craft.

    Roll Trait
    1 I distrust strangers and people who earn my loyalty must work to keep it.
    2 I believe that someone is still hunting me, and do not like leaving my safe house because of it.
    3 I am proud of the things that I accomplish despite all of the odds being stacked against me.
    4 I weigh the risks and rewards of a situation before acting on it.
    5 I miss my home and my family, and tend to gravitate to the people and places that remind me of them.
    6 I dislike the company of others, and refuse to socialize unless absolutely necessary.
    7 I firmly believe in my own freedom and safety, and protect them above all else.
    8 I think that the few friends that I have are precious companions that must be protected at all costs.

    Roll Ideal
    1 Safety: Regardless of where I go, I should have a safe place to fall back on if necessary (Neutral)
    2 Justice: Those that commit atrocities should be punished, in or out of the court system. (Good)
    3 Spite: Those that slight me will pay for it dearly, regardless of how severe or real the insult may be. (Evil)
    4 Caution: One should know exactly what they are getting into and only act when they have all of the facts (Lawful)
    5 Phobia: I am afraid of the things that destroyed my life in the past, and will do my best to avoid them if I can. (Chaotic)
    6 Survivor: No matter what, I will have the tools and skills I need to survive in any situation. (Neutral)

    Roll Bond
    1 I am looking for the creatures that destroyed my life to enact my vengeance.
    2 I am looking for a new home to call my own.
    3 I am looking for any family or friends that might have survived the horrific events of my life.
    4 I am looking for an item that might be able to restore my homeland to its former glory.
    5 I want to move on from my loss, but am afraid to trust others completely with my life or feelings.
    6 I refuse to move on from my past, and take solace in the heirloom that I was able to hold on to.

    Roll Flaw
    1 I am being hunted by the captors I escaped.
    2 I owe an organization my life, and am at its beck and call until I repay them.
    3 I have fallen back on drugs and alcohol to try and numb the pain of my loss.
    4 I cannot function if I lose my keepsake, and must keep it with me at all times.
    5 I am unable to function in crowds, and will attempt to escape any public places I enter.
    6 It hurts too much to talk about my past, and I cannot do it even if it is vital to the situation.


    Spoiler: Race
    Show
    Yup
    Last edited by Gnomes2169; 2014-09-06 at 10:04 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    I like the sanguine knight very much. The flavor of the class seams very well defined for a hombrew and the immortal subclass is an excellent idea. This said, I don't really like the feats but that's just my personal opinion, not some issue with the mechanics.
    Last edited by PiggDaddy; 2014-09-05 at 12:28 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Why thank you, and I was actually going to add in the fluff for the subclasses and re-work a few things in the immortal subclass... And the Blood Lord subclass was also going to get overhauled. But what don't you like about the feats?
    My homebrew

    5th Edition
    3.5/ Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Sartharina View Post
    No, John Wizard, you are the simulacrum.
    And then John was a snowman.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomes2169 View Post
    Why thank you, and I was actually going to add in the fluff for the subclasses and re-work a few things in the immortal subclass... And the Blood Lord subclass was also going to get overhauled. But what don't you like about the feats?
    As I said, my dislike of these feats is just a matter of personal opinion not mechanical merit. I have never been a fan of feats that give players access to one of a classes core powers. As for the second feat I think feats in this edition should stay away from stacking numerical attack bonuses.
    Last edited by PiggDaddy; 2014-09-06 at 05:32 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by PiggDaddy View Post
    As I said, my dislike of these feats is just a matter of personal opinion not mechanical merit. I have never been a fan of feats that give players access to one of a classes core powers. As for the second feat I think feats in this edition should stay away from stacking numerical attack bonuses.
    For the first feat, that's fair enough. Mostly, I was just thinking that classes other than the sanguine knight (such as the Barbarian) could use the bonds effectively as well, and the healing factor added in is useful for blood-bonded allies of the sanguine knight (who would benefit each time crimson revelry proc'd.)

    For the second one, I noticed that too, and I'm planning to change that bit of the feat to just "gets advantage"...
    My homebrew

    5th Edition
    3.5/ Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Sartharina View Post
    No, John Wizard, you are the simulacrum.
    And then John was a snowman.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Alright massive revamp of the Blood Lord subclass, and a few other edits here and there as well (especially to the Enhanced body ability). Also, bump!
    My homebrew

    5th Edition
    3.5/ Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Sartharina View Post
    No, John Wizard, you are the simulacrum.
    And then John was a snowman.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    This class is way too much. No class has extra health on top of their hit die, let alone a d12 as a non-feature. Fast-Healing at level 2 that will be at least 6 if not 8(maybe 12 or 14). Additionally constitution to damage rolls is far better than the Warlock Pact Blade invocation 5 levels earlier in which this can add 8 instead of just 5. Vital Sight automatically bypasses any obscurity, even True Seeing can't do that. The for something it is one of the most resilient and better roll users I have seen it gets 5 archetype features which often 2 features each with its own various extentions.
    1. The Immortal is effectively immortal for something that will have 400 hit points or more you felt the need to make it almost impossible to stop. Your conservative constitution roll is 24, which means attackers need to be dealing 48 damage a hit to possibly be a worry for you at 0. Very few can do that consistently, especially considering you are going to be immune to critical hits. The Rogue could but oh yeah since you need 6 to die and you auto succeed at one while he can only do so with one attack. You are already ahead of the curve to get your hit points back. The only thing that could possibly make you fail those throws in line with your automatics is a Paladin and he will probably waste all of his spells just to kill you with his smite when you are at 0 hit points.
    2. Sanguine Blade, automatic Blood Frenzy at level 3. This is the best dip a Rogue could ever have. Many of these levels have 2 abilities and have a few kinds of auto teleportation across untyped distances. In addition he is effectively adding an extra attack in damage for every strike he makes.
    3. Bloodlord, this is all kinds of broken, double action economy damage, refills, blasting, debuffs, and options galore.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2014-10-27 at 08:29 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    This class is way too much. No class has extra health on top of their hit die, let alone a d12 as a non-feature.
    This is a good point, and the hp ability (and incredible durability) are both removed.

    Fast-Healing at level 2 that will be at least 6 if not 8(maybe 12 or 14).
    Crimson revelry only works in combat, and even then only on rounds in which a creature within 200' was dealt lethal damage. Moving on from that...

    Um... at level 2, with point buy or the stat caps, you have a maximum of fast healing 3 if you use the point buy, or 5 if you roll an 18 and then get Dwarf. This ability is to offset the damage that the sanguine knight will be taking from their allies with Blood Bonds, which is going to be rather quite a lot larger than what you are healing. By level 20, if you go immortal and take Unbroken Heart, you have a maximum of 14 hp/ round... which does not nearly heal the damage you will be absorbing from a single attack or AOE, let alone the damage being dealt to you. This said, unbreakable body has been trimmed to be only non-magic weapon resistance, immunity to the first two levels of exhaustion and immunity to sickened and stunned. This lowers resilience at level 20 by rather quite a lot, and crits still work. Oh, and natural healer only adds base proficiency instead of proficiency*2, so that 14 is the maximum fast healing the sanguine knight (immortal) can get at level 17.

    Additionally constitution to damage rolls is far better than the Warlock Pact Blade invocation 5 levels earlier in which it can add 8 instead of just 5.
    This is only for the immortal, and is the only option they have to increase their damage rolls. Every class has some way, even if it is only getting more and mor attacks (monk/fighter), or getting a flat bonus on top of other nice things (barbarian's rage, warlock's invocations) or even just rolling more dice on a hit (paladin and rogue). It gets to +8 by level 17 at the earliest, and is otherwise a +6 on only two attacks... compare the warlock and them adding +5 to each bolt from eldrich blast starting at level 2 (which nets them up to four attacks).

    Vital Sight automatically bypasses any obscurity, even True Seeing can't do that.
    Uh, it's literally a limited true sight. True seeing the spell gives you it, and true seeing will work on spirits, elementals, undead and constructs. Vital Sight only works over 60', and only on living creatures. It also has the limits of true seeing, in that it cannot reveal creatures with full cover.

    The for something it is one of the most resilient and better roll users I have seen it gets 5 archetype features which often 2 features each with its own various extentions.
    Are you talking about the Enhanced Body options, then let's go through them:
    You get 3 (4 if you choose to go with the immortal) of these choices:
    -Proficiency in athletics if you don't have it. Or expertise if you do, and the ability to double your carrying capacity (oh, and proficiency in the 2 strength saves the game even has... So niche as to not be mentionable)
    -Proficiency in dex saves, and no damage on a success. This is weaker than a rogue with evasion, as the majority of sanguine knights will go with a str build, and this proficiency bonus is the only thing they will add to dex saving throws, so often the secondary effect won't proc.
    -Unbroken heart lets you live, and makes you better at tanking. Nothing else.
    -Crimson intellect gives you two int skill proficiencies and int save proficiencies (dubious use) and the ability to be a bit more accurate against creatures that can be identified with the skills you have.
    -Body and mind was changed to just be con to wisdom saves and proficiency in wisdom saves.
    -Speaker of blood gets you advantage on charisma saving throws (good for people that don't like to have their character run away) and proficiency in persuasion unless you have it, in which case you get a different skill. (Other advantages cut)

    So totaled together, you can have:
    4 new skills (or 3 and one expertise if you have proficiency in athletics). This also gets you proficiency in str/ int saves (both almost entirely replaced by skill checks, and rarely targeted even then) and advantage in charisma saves (hah. Also not all that useful) at level 18.
    Or you could get the good saves rout, and take Reflexive core, Unbroken heart and Body and Mind. This also nets you 0 skills.
    Or you could try to be a hybrid, but you will never be able to get them all or proficiency in all of the saving throws. None of them are exactly near the scale of spellcasting or action surge, though I suppose they are around the power level of a feat, and removing access to one of them wouldn't hurt... So the level 13 choice goes poof.

    1. The Immortal is effectively immortal for something that will have 400 hit points or more you felt the need to make it almost impossible to stop. Your conservative constitution roll is 24, which means attackers need to be dealing 48 damage a hit to possibly be a worry for you at 0. Very few can do that consistently, especially considering you are going to be immune to critical hits. The Rogue could but oh yeah since you need 6 to die and you auto succeed at one while he can only do so with one attack. You are already ahead of the curve to get your hit points back. The only thing that could possibly make you fail those throws in line with your automatics is a Paladin and he will probably waste all of his spells just to kill you with his smite when you are at 0 hit points.
    And I realize the problem here, thank you for pointing it out... However, remember that D&D 5e is not supposed to be PvP, and that the monsters you will be fighting will be hitting that hard. This said, crits now work, and while the immortal can take a good bit of punishment, it isn't near 400 hp anymore.

    2. Sanguine Blade, automatic Blood Frenzy at level 3. This is the best dip a Rogue could ever have.
    It wasn't trivially easy to get advantage as a rogue anyway?

    Many of these levels have 2 abilities and have a few kinds of auto teleportation across untyped distances.[/qoute]
    Teleportation range of 60' cuts down on that a bit, and both of them may only be used once a short rest. One eats your movement, the other your reaction. Both of them have specific requirements that are easy for a DM to work around (first one requires two living creatures within 60' and for you to be adjacent to one, the other requires an ally within 60' to be damaged in melee).

    Edit: On second thought, bloody step is just gone. Only on teleportation type, only over 60', only as a reaction, and only if an ally is dealt damage in melee.

    In addition he is effectively adding an extra attack in damage for every strike he makes.
    This is a good point, and while I can't add in the change yet (on my way to work, had to leave my computer behind, 1d8 extra damage on draining blade that doesn't apply to secondary targets but heals the amount rolled would be a good way to cut it down.

    DPR on a longsword duelist fighting one target becomes 6d8+27 (average 54) at maximum before a magic weapon if all three attacks hit. Likely 1/3-1/4 of them will miss, however, bringing the damage down to 34/ round or 42/ round.

    I am seriously considering cutting damage down on their damage aura to just +2 and instead just scaling the radius, and will likely implement that change before I post this (yeah, editing as I go. I know, I'm cheating...).
    3. Bloodlord, this is all kinds of broken, double action economy damage[/quote]
    For double the damage when swarmed or hit with an AOE (basically cutting HP in half) you get a second body that can swing a sword worse and have less AC... Oh, and vulnerability to twinned, and if you want to give your second body a magic item that requires attunement, you need to sacrifice one of your main body's slots (meaning you or your puppet can have a magic sword, not both.) I'm considering making mental attacks aimed at the blood puppet re-target the bloodlord, setting the dex score to 10 and limiting it it simple weapons (though I think I already did that second one...) and limiting it to one attack/ round. Sound a bit better?

    refills
    To keep from melting when the enemies around them decide to AOE/ target blood-bonded allies. The blood lord is shockingly fragile when these things hit it!

    That said, lowering it to 1 or 2/ short rest would not be unwarranted (in most cases, this will be your action and it will heal you for about as much as a Cure Wounds spell from a 5th level slot... Not that big of a deal.) Putrefy and Nightmare Engine should both require concentration, however...

    blasting,
    (The following numbers given are the average damage for each type of blood bolt with a failed dexterity save)

    Once every 6 rounds you can deal 37 non-magical piercing or bludgeoning damage to a line of creatures, and either heal HP per creature or potentially poison them. Or you can deal 31 damage as a cone instead, or 31 damage once every 3 rounds, or 31 damage and maybe remove a spell slot if the creature can cast.

    Corpse eruption (the highest damage technique you can do) deals damage in a 10' radius, and deals 42 damage. You can now use it twice, it allows a dexterity saving throw, and this is equal to a wizard's 5th level fire ball. Oh, an it's non-magical weapon damage as well.

    So basically, the blood lord is a patch to not having a dedicated blaster, but not actually all that good at the job.

    debuffs
    Cripple is the second best debuff you have (the best being nightmare engine, which prevents you from healing after the encounter), and then you have putrefy (also concentration, lasts as long as the creature sits in the cloud) which is basically just an out-of-combat debuff to spread disease and murder people days or weeks down the line. The blood puppet's option is threatening, which is a bit too strong, I'll admit. Blood bolts have spell eating and the poisoned condition. Now let's look at changes/ actual costs.

    Pain is more of a plot device than anything. You can have a single one active, and you can use it 1/ day. It targets Constitution, on average the highest saving throw, and now only works on only humanoids and beasts (unless you have soul twist, in which case you can also target undead, constructs and spirits). Of all the debuff options you have available, the only ones with real combat potential are Agony and Detain. Agony deals 4d6 damage once/ 10 rounds, which forces a concentration check and which is not lethal to the target. Detain holds the target in place for 10 rounds, which sounds great... Except it's concentration, and you have two bodies to damage (one of which is more vulnerable than the other), so the moment an AOE or swarm hits, you are likely to lose it, and it prevents you from using Nightmare Engine or Putrefy.

    Nightmare engine uses an already-made corpse (so you have to carry one around with you or fight a swarm). It is basically a hold person (and gives saving throws each round) that also causes those afflicted to drop manufactured weapons. It only targets creatures adjacent to the corpse, has friendly fire, requires concentration, lasts for one minute and may only be used once/ short rest. It also consumes all of your out-of-combat healing, making it so your resident healer has to expend more of their healing resources on you.

    Putrefy must target an already made corpse. It targets constitution, imposes disadvantage on attacks, has a range of 10' and incubates a disease in the target. It is also friendly fire, does not affect creatures immune to poison or disease, is a concentration effect (though this one lasts for up to one hour) and takes one use of your consume corpse ability (again, putting more strain on your healer).

    Toxic bolts deal poison damage and inflict the poisoned condition. These are literally the most resisted/ immune damage type and status, so use is very much limited.

    Threatening is now "you have advantage on intimidation checks against creatures within 10'." While potentially useful, not the strongest of all things.

    options galore.
    Options in and of themselves do not break a game or even a class (as the truenamer, binders, dragon fire adept and Magic of Incarnum demonstrated in 3.5) What breaks a class is options that are better than any other given option, that have universal applicability and no cost associated. Each option I gave the blood lord is there to cover some kind of weakness or flaw inherent in each technique (which I'll go through below), and the only straight-up non-situational buffs are the subclass's capstone and the consume corpse options.

    Blood bolts are weak. They deal low amounts of non-magic weapon damage(!) to a short line(!), recharge once every 6 rounds(!) and allow a dexterity saving throw for half damage(!). Two options give damage other than weapon damage (both types do not affect undead), one makes the blast a more usable cone (still deals terrible damage) and one adds a little usability vs. casters... which are less than 10% of the monster manual. The casters also have to be living... So less than 5% now.

    Blood puppets are vulnerable to attacks(!) (16 AC tops if it has a breastplate and shield, up to 19 if you give it a +3 breastplate), deal low damage(!) (19 dpr once you have 22 con and they attack twice), are inaccurate(!) (only have str to attack, no prof bonus), unskilled(!) (no prof bonus for physical skills), cut your health in half(!), consume your attunement slots if they attune a magic item (!) and make it so you have more points of vulnerability if a caster or creature uses a charm effect(!). One option lets them equip a magic item without consuming a slot, another one reduces incoming damage by 1/2 (effectively cutting your health by 1/4 instead of 1/2), another one treats the blood puppet's weapons as magic and add your prof bonus to their str/ dex skills, another one lets you add your prof bonus to their attack rolls, and the last one lets you use the blood puppet for a bit of intimidation. You can only have one of these augments, so choose wisely.

    Consume corpse heals piddly amounts of damage(!), requires a fresh corpse(!), and is a 1 minute ritual so it's out of combat only(!). One augment increases the healing, one augment makes it an action, two augments are debuffs discussed above, and the last augment is a weak AOE.

    Pain only targets humanoids and beasts(!), is concentration(!) and only ever effects a single target(!). One augment adds insignificant damage, one option pins a creature in place, one option gives you more possible targets, and the last option just makes it hard to break free.

    Your final level 17 options are all small bonuses. One is low flight speed + a low damage melee bonus attack, one is immunity to charm and 120' of super darkvision and the last one is a fear aura.

    Now, which one of these is so powerful that it breaks the game in half?
    Last edited by Gnomes2169; 2014-10-27 at 11:16 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomes2169 View Post

    Crimson revelry only works in combat, and even then only on rounds in which a creature within 200' was dealt lethal damage. Moving on from that...

    Um... at level 2, with point buy or the stat caps, you have a maximum of fast healing 3 if you use the point buy, or 5 if you roll an 18 and then get Dwarf. This ability is to offset the damage that the sanguine knight will be taking from their allies with Blood Bonds, which is going to be rather quite a lot larger than what you are healing. By level 20, if you go immortal and take Unbroken Heart, you have a maximum of 14 hp/ round... which does not nearly heal the damage you will be absorbing from a single attack or AOE, let alone the damage being dealt to you. This said, unbreakable body has been trimmed to be only non-magic weapon resistance, immunity to the first two levels of exhaustion and immunity to sickened and stunned. This lowers resilience at level 20 by rather quite a lot, and crits still work. Oh, and natural healer only adds base proficiency instead of proficiency*2, so that 14 is the maximum fast healing the sanguine knight (immortal) can get at level 17.


    This is only for the immortal, and is the only option they have to increase their damage rolls. Every class has some way, even if it is only getting more and mor attacks (monk/fighter), or getting a flat bonus on top of other nice things (barbarian's rage, warlock's invocations) or even just rolling more dice on a hit (paladin and rogue). It gets to +8 by level 17 at the earliest, and is otherwise a +6 on only two attacks... compare the warlock and them adding +5 to each bolt from eldrich blast starting at level 2 (which nets them up to four attacks).

    Vital Sight automatically bypasses any obscurity, even True Seeing can't do that.
    Uh, it's literally a limited true sight. True seeing the spell gives you it, and true seeing will work on spirits, elementals, undead and constructs. Vital Sight only works over 60', and only on living creatures. It also has the limits of true seeing, in that it cannot reveal creatures with full cover.


    Are you talking about the Enhanced Body options, then let's go through them:
    You get 3 (4 if you choose to go with the immortal) of these choices:
    -Proficiency in athletics if you don't have it. Or expertise if you do, and the ability to double your carrying capacity (oh, and proficiency in the 2 strength saves the game even has... So niche as to not be mentionable)
    -Proficiency in dex saves, and no damage on a success. This is weaker than a rogue with evasion, as the majority of sanguine knights will go with a str build, and this proficiency bonus is the only thing they will add to dex saving throws, so often the secondary effect won't proc.
    -Unbroken heart lets you live, and makes you better at tanking. Nothing else.
    -Crimson intellect gives you two int skill proficiencies and int save proficiencies (dubious use) and the ability to be a bit more accurate against creatures that can be identified with the skills you have.
    -Body and mind was changed to just be con to wisdom saves and proficiency in wisdom saves.
    -Speaker of blood gets you advantage on charisma saving throws (good for people that don't like to have their character run away) and proficiency in persuasion unless you have it, in which case you get a different skill. (Other advantages cut)

    So totaled together, you can have:
    4 new skills (or 3 and one expertise if you have proficiency in athletics). This also gets you proficiency in str/ int saves (both almost entirely replaced by skill checks, and rarely targeted even then) and advantage in charisma saves (hah. Also not all that useful) at level 18.
    Or you could get the good saves rout, and take Reflexive core, Unbroken heart and Body and Mind. This also nets you 0 skills.
    Or you could try to be a hybrid, but you will never be able to get them all or proficiency in all of the saving throws. None of them are exactly near the scale of spellcasting or action surge, though I suppose they are around the power level of a feat, and removing access to one of them wouldn't hurt... So the level 13 choice goes poof.


    And I realize the problem here, thank you for pointing it out... However, remember that D&D 5e is not supposed to be PvP, and that the monsters you will be fighting will be hitting that hard. This said, crits now work, and while the immortal can take a good bit of punishment, it isn't near 400 hp anymore.


    It wasn't trivially easy to get advantage as a rogue anyway?

    3. Bloodlord, this is all kinds of broken, double action economy damage
    For double the damage when swarmed or hit with an AOE (basically cutting HP in half) you get a second body that can swing a sword worse and have less AC... Oh, and vulnerability to twinned, and if you want to give your second body a magic item that requires attunement, you need to sacrifice one of your main body's slots (meaning you or your puppet can have a magic sword, not both.) I'm considering making mental attacks aimed at the blood puppet re-target the bloodlord, setting the dex score to 10 and limiting it it simple weapons (though I think I already did that second one...) and limiting it to one attack/ round. Sound a bit better?


    To keep from melting when the enemies around them decide to AOE/ target blood-bonded allies. The blood lord is shockingly fragile when these things hit it!

    That said, lowering it to 1 or 2/ short rest would not be unwarranted (in most cases, this will be your action and it will heal you for about as much as a Cure Wounds spell from a 5th level slot... Not that big of a deal.) Putrefy and Nightmare Engine should both require concentration, however...


    (The following numbers given are the average damage for each type of blood bolt with a failed dexterity save)

    Once every 6 rounds you can deal 37 non-magical piercing or bludgeoning damage to a line of creatures, and either heal HP per creature or potentially poison them. Or you can deal 31 damage as a cone instead, or 31 damage once every 3 rounds, or 31 damage and maybe remove a spell slot if the creature can cast.

    Corpse eruption (the highest damage technique you can do) deals damage in a 10' radius, and deals 42 damage. You can now use it twice, it allows a dexterity saving throw, and this is equal to a wizard's 5th level fire ball. Oh, an it's non-magical weapon damage as well.

    So basically, the blood lord is a patch to not having a dedicated blaster, but not actually all that good at the job.


    Cripple is the second best debuff you have (the best being nightmare engine, which prevents you from healing after the encounter), and then you have putrefy (also concentration, lasts as long as the creature sits in the cloud) which is basically just an out-of-combat debuff to spread disease and murder people days or weeks down the line. The blood puppet's option is threatening, which is a bit too strong, I'll admit. Blood bolts have spell eating and the poisoned condition. Now let's look at changes/ actual costs.

    Pain is more of a plot device than anything. You can have a single one active, and you can use it 1/ day. It targets Constitution, on average the highest saving throw, and now only works on only humanoids and beasts (unless you have soul twist, in which case you can also target undead, constructs and spirits). Of all the debuff options you have available, the only ones with real combat potential are Agony and Detain. Agony deals 4d6 damage once/ 10 rounds, which forces a concentration check and which is not lethal to the target. Detain holds the target in place for 10 rounds, which sounds great... Except it's concentration, and you have two bodies to damage (one of which is more vulnerable than the other), so the moment an AOE or swarm hits, you are likely to lose it, and it prevents you from using Nightmare Engine or Putrefy.

    Nightmare engine uses an already-made corpse (so you have to carry one around with you or fight a swarm). It is basically a hold person (and gives saving throws each round) that also causes those afflicted to drop manufactured weapons. It only targets creatures adjacent to the corpse, has friendly fire, requires concentration, lasts for one minute and may only be used once/ short rest. It also consumes all of your out-of-combat healing, making it so your resident healer has to expend more of their healing resources on you.

    Putrefy must target an already made corpse. It targets constitution, imposes disadvantage on attacks, has a range of 10' and incubates a disease in the target. It is also friendly fire, does not affect creatures immune to poison or disease, is a concentration effect (though this one lasts for up to one hour) and takes one use of your consume corpse ability (again, putting more strain on your healer).

    Toxic bolts deal poison damage and inflict the poisoned condition. These are literally the most resisted/ immune damage type and status, so use is very much limited.

    Threatening is now "you have advantage on intimidation checks against creatures within 10'." While potentially useful, not the strongest of all things.



    Options in and of themselves do not break a game or even a class (as the truenamer, binders, dragon fire adept and Magic of Incarnum demonstrated in 3.5) What breaks a class is options that are better than any other given option, that have universal applicability and no cost associated. Each option I gave the blood lord is there to cover some kind of weakness or flaw inherent in each technique (which I'll go through below), and the only straight-up non-situational buffs are the subclass's capstone and the consume corpse options.

    Blood bolts are weak. They deal low amounts of non-magic weapon damage(!) to a short line(!), recharge once every 6 rounds(!) and allow a dexterity saving throw for half damage(!). Two options give damage other than weapon damage (both types do not affect undead), one makes the blast a more usable cone (still deals terrible damage) and one adds a little usability vs. casters... which are less than 10% of the monster manual. The casters also have to be living... So less than 5% now.

    Blood puppets are vulnerable to attacks(!) (16 AC tops if it has a breastplate and shield, up to 19 if you give it a +3 breastplate), deal low damage(!) (19 dpr once you have 22 con and they attack twice), are inaccurate(!) (only have str to attack, no prof bonus), unskilled(!) (no prof bonus for physical skills), cut your health in half(!), consume your attunement slots if they attune a magic item (!) and make it so you have more points of vulnerability if a caster or creature uses a charm effect(!). One option lets them equip a magic item without consuming a slot, another one reduces incoming damage by 1/2 (effectively cutting your health by 1/4 instead of 1/2), another one treats the blood puppet's weapons as magic and add your prof bonus to their str/ dex skills, another one lets you add your prof bonus to their attack rolls, and the last one lets you use the blood puppet for a bit of intimidation. You can only have one of these augments, so choose wisely.

    Consume corpse heals piddly amounts of damage(!), requires a fresh corpse(!), and is a 1 minute ritual so it's out of combat only(!). One augment increases the healing, one augment makes it an action, two augments are debuffs discussed above, and the last augment is a weak AOE.

    Pain only targets humanoids and beasts(!), is concentration(!) and only ever effects a single target(!). One augment adds insignificant damage, one option pins a creature in place, one option gives you more possible targets, and the last option just makes it hard to break free.

    Your final level 17 options are all small bonuses. One is low flight speed + a low damage melee bonus attack, one is immunity to charm and 120' of super darkvision and the last one is a fear aura.

    Now, which one of these is so powerful that it breaks the game in half?
    1. I said will be, which means it will grow into that especially since you have constitution as almost a god stat. Compared to Imdominatable or 20th level capstones of a Paladin Archetype this is far better as well as much quicker. Additionally your blood bond kicks this in often. It isn't a level 2 ability. I'm sorry but you not being battle and not 0 hit points is not being situational.
    2. Yours is the only one that gives a flat +8 or a +6 to all your allies. Barbarians only top out at 4. Rogues can only apply it to 1 attack in which they have to spend actions to set up. What you are talking about is one of the Eldritch Blast invocations in which doesn't normally add any bonus damage to the dice. So, in reality it is a non-optimized Fighter Archer with push back. I am talking about the Life-Drinker blade.
    3. No, true seeing only bypasses magical obscurity or see the true form of polymorphed character. Yours bypasses natural as well, which makes Stealth auto-fail.
    4. But even monsters don't average that kind of damage a hit. A Tarrasque(CR 30) with its bite averages 46 which is its most powerful physical attack and only can use it once a round. That is an unoptimized roll of 9 for you. Even the highest CR critter is incredibly likely to fail and even if you are unlucky you are still ahead in making the rolls to reset the counter
    5. I am talking about in the Archetypes, not only have given 5 levels of it which only 2 others do so and top out at a level in which they can't dabble in other archetypes while yours still can. You have also often given them 2 abilities at that Archetype level which then often detailed more the one ability or sets of bonuses. The Sanguine Blade and Bloodlord are the most noticeable here.
    6. No, they need to spend actions to do so in which they often need to be contested. If they are they are either momentary such as surprise or waste your action to deliver the huge attack. No, one has an ability that can spam advantage like this without consequences or a stupidly broken 9th level spell.
    7. The Bloodlord is the quintessential example of how some people feel like they need to add a whole bunch of things they feel they should add. It is an archetype that says well the other two kind of those other two strategies so I am going to give the rest here without selection. An Archetype that has that shouldn't be an archetype, it should be a class in and of itself as all of those examples you used there are. No options in and of themselves aren't broken, but when the options are of a subset of a base class with a big meaty and over all resilient as well as lucky base offering a wide array of active options both in and out of combat it questions whether or not should the Bloodlord be the base class here rather than the near perfect chasis.
    8. Magical damage is easy to get, and actually you have 1/3 or 1/2 chance to use it again the next time. You did change this though in a few different ways when I commented last. So don't change the game on me without telling me first and cry foul when I'm still using the other as a point of reference.
    9. Depends on the sword. A magical sword with a strict bonus requires no attunement and the kind of skills you can take up with the advantages I wouldn't be surprised if one manages to convince others to waste mental attacks or enchantments on something that is immune. You also had it so where proficiency on attack stacked 2x. Durable makes it immune to anything but magical weapons.
    10. It is healing that you don't have to spend hit die on or short rest to do so and you get to make traps with them. The latter is what I was mainly referring to.
    11. Pain though is held over like a curse it can force creatures to constantly save until they fail in which then they need to wait until likely the end of the encounter. While the ability isn't really broken the fact is it can still use all of the other ones.
    12. Flight of 50 speed isn't slow and no one is going to say a free attack is bad.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2014-10-27 at 02:14 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    All in all it feels like you felt the need to squish in a bunch of things rather than prioritize the unique concept of your class. You then tried to further expand with the Archetypes with the Bloodlord being the biggest culprit when the Bloodlord probably has some of the more flavorful material to prioritize from.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. Compared to Imdominatable or 20th level capstones of a Paladin Archetype this is far better as well as much quicker. Additionally your blood bond kicks this in often. It isn't a level 2 ability.
    When you get it, it's 3 points of in-combat only fast healing. This is to offset the 7-9 damage you will be taking either from attacks against you or attacks against allies. The champion fighter (which is a terrible subclass that should not be compared to genuinely) heals outside of combat up to 1/2 hp, and the oath of the ancients gives you rather a lot more in casting buffing goodness. Neither of those classes are taking nearly the magnitude of damage as the sanguine knight will be. (CR 2 creatures alone deal 11 damage on a normal hit, while CR 6 (where the sanguine knight will be healing 7 hp/ round) there are creatures bursting for 40, and more average creatures hitting for 16-24 twice/ round.) Taking half the damage for allies from most, if not all, hits is, in fact, a massive amount of damage to be taking.

    2. Yours is the only one that gives a flat +8 or a +6 to all your allies. Barbarians only top out at 4. Rogues can only apply it to 1 attack in which they have to spend actions to set up. What you are talking about is one of the Eldritch Blast invocations in which doesn't normally add any bonus damage to the dice. So, in reality it is a non-optimized Fighter Archer with push back. I am talking about the Life-Drinker blade.
    Um, true strength is only to yourself, is only +8 at level 17 if you take unbroken heart (likely, but with only 3 possible choices and 6 options, not necessarily the top pick) lasts for 1 minute/ long rest, and only applies to melee attacks. Swapping it to "use your constitution bonus instead of your strength bonus." Might work better (it maxes out at +3 damage instead), and would allow it to function off of short rests instead.

    And do we have the same player's handbook? Because I'm looking at Agonizing Blast on page 110 and Lifedrinker on page 111, which both add your charisma modifier as damage on a hit.
    3. No, true seeing only bypasses magical obscurity or see the true form of polymorphed character. Yours bypasses natural as well.
    No, mundane cover still foils true sight. Monster Manual page 9:
    Quote Originally Posted by MM pg 9
    A monster with truesight can, out to a specific range, see invisible creatures and objects, [del]automatically detect visual illusions and succeed on saving throws against them, [/del]and perceive the original form of a shapechanger or creature that is transformed by magic. [del]Furthermore, the monster can see into the ethereal plane within the dame range[/de]l
    ((For ease of use, the parts of the sight that don't apply to what the sanguine knight can do are struck through, as the sanguine knight's truesight specifically only applies to living creatures))

    Tarrasque(CR 30) with its bite averages 46 which is its most powerful physical attack and only can use it once a round. That is an unoptimized roll of 9 for you. Even the highest CR critter is incredibly likely to fail and even if you are unlucky you are still ahead in making the rolls to reset the counter
    Flipping over to the first CR 16 creature in the book (the Planetar), it hits twice/ round for 43 damage. The very next creature (CR 21) is the Solar, who hits for 49 damage 2/ round, can searing burst as a legendary action (28 damage) and has a slaying longbow (32 damage, must make a DC 15 con save if under 100 HP or immediately die). The next creature on our list is the Behir, who is a CR 11 creature that deals 66 damage with its breath weapon. The beholder (CR 13) can petrify as a dex save, or hit with a disintegration ray or death ray (45 and 55 damage respectively). Death knight (CR 17) deals 70 damage with its hellfire orb, 28 before smiting with its attack (it makes 3, and can add 27x2 or 22x3 from it). Demilich (CR 18) can give you disadvantage and reduces max HP each hit. Balors just laugh on crits (9d8+8+9d8 damage). Bearded devils (CR 3) can easily swarm and bleed the immortal out (there would be around 20 of them for a CR 17 challenge. Good luck.) Dragon turtle (CR 17) breath weapon, 52 damage. Any young or older dragon's breath weapon, 42+. I've gotten through the D's, and there are creatures that easily force a DC 21+ saving throw on the sanguine knight without crits. The terrasque is not nearly the damage king you seem to be thinking, and there are many, many ways to kill without targeting HP (lich's power word kill, for example).

    Now is it hard for a swarm to take the immortal down? Yes. Is it impossible? No, math and bad rolling still favor the swarm (especially bearded devils, which can ramp up the pain rather quickly). Everyone rolls a 1 eventually, after all. Maybe setting Undying to 1/long rest would be for the best, but you do vastly underestimate the raw power of a good chunk of the monster manual, methinks.

    5. I am talking about in the Archetypes, not only have given 5 levels of it which only 2 others do so and top out at a level in which they can't dabble in other archetypes while yours still can.
    I literally just used the fighter's subclass formula. I've honestly been thinking of switching the level 17 subclass abilities to level 20 and just giving the SK immunity to stunned and the first two levels of exhaustion at level 17, which would be a bit better...

    You have also often given them 2 abilities at that Archetype level which then often detailed more the one ability or sets of bonuses. The Sanguine Blade and Bloodlord are the most noticeable here.
    The sanguine blade has this once (remember, I removed bloody step entirely) and it is at level 3... Let's look at other classes that do this: Paladins (in fact, they get 3 abilities; two channel divinities and their bonus always-memorized spells list), all wizards (at level 1, no less), eldrich knights (spell casting and weapon bond), battle masters (superiority dice and maneuvers), Totem barbarian (spirit seeker and totem spirit), bards (proficiencies + extras), clerics (all domains give proficiencies+spells+special channel divinities that don't even follow the subclass progression), druid, rogue, warlock.

    I think that's literally everything but the ranger, bard and champion fighter... One of which is a full caster, the other two are not all too useful. So the sanguine blade is more than alright having its two nice things at level 3... The immortal, however, I might just remove True Strength from, because of the overlap and the way it jars with the class fluff.

    6. No, they need to spend actions to do so in which they often need to be contested. If they are they are either momentary such as surprise or waste your action to deliver the huge attack. No, one has an ability that can spam advantage like this without consequences or a stupidly broken 9th level spell.
    So what you are saying is, limit it to only when you are at 1/2 or less HP? I'm hearing limit it to 1/2 or less HP...

    7. The Bloodlord is the quintessential example of how some people feel like they need to add a whole bunch of things they feel they should add. It is an archetype that says well the other two kind of those other two strategies so I am going to give the rest here without selection. An Archetype that has that shouldn't be an archetype, it should be a class in and of itself as all of those examples you used there are. No options in and of themselves aren't broken, but when the options are of a subset of a base class with a big meaty and over all resilient as well as lucky base offering a wide array of active options both in and out of combat it questions whether or not should the Bloodlord be the base class here rather than the near perfect chasis.
    Actually, before the edit I wanted to make a subset of the "blood knight" that might as well being a living vampire, using blood manipulation effects and fighting from there. Now that would actually be a solid base class to expand upon, but instead, I decided to re-focus the blood lord, making it into a blood bender instead. Where the other subclasses are a protector and a slayer respectively, the blood lord is a tyrant, evil with a capital E, and the abilities are thematic to that. Throwing blood as a weapon is the easiest thing to do, so that is the first ability. Not being able to do it every round out of hand forces the blood lord to stay in melee or rely on mundane equipment. Reconstituting and manipulating flesh is actually harder than just eating it, so I'ma swap around blood puppet and consume corpse. But the puppet fits the tyrant aspect of it, as does pain. Kill someone and make them serve you, or force someone to be your slave by racking them with pain? Check. Consume corpse is a holdout of the vampire aspect of the class, and very well might be changed because of that... But I think there is something that should be looked at here.

    Each subclass for most of the PHB plays like... Well, the base class. Each paladin does a different thing, but they all play like a paladin and smite. Each cleric clerics, each sorcerer sorcerers, and each bard bards. However, each of them varies wildly in how they do this. For bards, you have a full support, and bards do support, but it is also a caster that can do more with skills and magic. The valor bard also supports, like all bards, and also mixes melee and damage into what it does. Both of them are still bards and feel like bards, despite having completely different focuses and playstyles. If we look at the totem barbarian, each of them looks and feels like a totem barbarian, despite even the subclass having different playstyles (Bear is a tank, the eagle is a mobile weapon dancer, and the wolf is a silent pack leader).

    And then you have the fighter, ranger and rogue, who's subclasses play similarly only in name or one, maybe two similar ways (rouge gonna sneak, fighter gonna smack things with a stick, ranger gonna [del]suck[/del] shoot). You could make one or two of their subclasses into base classes or just a part of the base class (*cough, champion, cough*) and they wouldn't play any differently.

    The sanguine knight takes a little from column A and B. It is a heavily armored/ armed blood knight that tanks for and protects its allies. The immortal does this by being nearly unkillable, and granting protection to allies passively through its blood bond. The sanguine blade viciously retaliates, and passively makes his allies more powerful, allowing them to kill threats faster. And then you have the blood lord, who mechanically tanks for allies by debuffing enemies and adding a more easily targetable creature to inflict damage upon. All of them absorb damage in place of their allies, all of them recover health in some way, and all of them are melee-focused tanks. As well, all of them are blood-themed and use their blood bonds in their own unique ways (Immortal is defensive, sanguine blade is offensive, blood lord is manipulative).

    Setting it like that, the oddball ability out is blood bolts... Which honestly, could be replaced with something forcing a creature into an unwilling blood bond, or maybe just dabbling in enhancing the members that have been bonded already. I can actually come up with something here...

    Manipulate bond: Starting at level 3, the blood lord may attempt to force a temporary blood bond on an unwilling creature. As an action, he may force an adjacent living creature without a blood bond to make a wisdom saving throw. If they fail, they are treated as if they were bonded to the blood lord and they are friendly towards the blood lord and any of his bonded allies. Finally, the blood lord has advantage on all deception and persuasion skills when interacting with this creature. This blood bond and its effect last for up to one hour, and at the end of this hour the creature immediately becomes hostile to the blood lord and all of his blood bonded allies. Manipulative bond may be used once per short rest. Creatures immune to charm effects are immune to this ability.

    Similarly, consume corpse will likely become infuse corpse, and consume will just be one of a (smaller pool of) options (likely, just consume, nightmare engine and putrefy.)

    8. Magical damage is easy to get, and actually you have 1/3 or 1/2 chance to use it again the next time. You did change that though when I commented last.
    As I said, editing. I am doing it as I go. As blood bolt is going away anyway, I'm not sure how relevant this might be... But while getting a magic weapon might be easy, I know no way to make an ability that deals weapon damage deal magical weapon damage unless the ability eventually grants it.

    9. Depends on the sword. A magical sword with a strict bonus requires no attunement and the kind of skills you can take up with the advantages I wouldn't be surprised if one manages to convince others to waste mental attacks or enchantments on something that is immune. You also had it so where proficiency on attack stacked 2x. Durable makes it immune to anything but magical weapons.
    And once again, the edits are real. None of these objections are still true, so judging it now, on its current incarnation, do you think it is broken? And durable gives resistance, not immunity... So it's taking 50% damage from energy attacks and normal weapon attacks, and 100% damage from magic weapons (which, as you noted, are easy to obtain).

    10. It is healing that you don't have to spend hit die on or short rest to do so and you get to make traps with them. The latter is what I was mainly referring to.
    Cure wounds, regeneration, lay on hands and heal are all also healing that you don't have to spend hit die on, and you actually do have to spend short rest to get it (charges recharge on a short rest). The reason it was given was to alleviate some of the healing pressure on clerics, which is why (even though it's being rewritten/ renamed) it's going to stick around as an option.

    11. Pain though is held over like a curse it can force creatures to constantly save until they fail in which then they need to wait until likely the end of the encounter. While the ability isn't really broken the fact is it can still use all of the other ones.
    Um... Once resisted, the creature is freed from pain permanently, and you only get one use of pain per day. It also requires your concentration to activate, and to maintain while activated, so... You actually can't chain it with your other concentration abilities.

    12. Flight of 50 speed isn't slow and no one is going to say a free attack is bad.
    I could have sworn it was 30'... typo. And the wing attack takes your bonus action (which would alternately be spent directing your blood puppet).

    However, I'm replacing this entire ability with the an ability I call Nightmare child... Which should be fun for the whole family!

    So then, change log from this post:

    General
    -Final subclass abilities are now obtained at level 20.
    -Level 17 now grants the ability Unbreakable: The sanguine knight is so used to pain and battle hardened that he can shrug off some of the most staggering blows. At level 17, he becomes immune to the stunned and paralyzed conditions.

    Immortal:
    -Undying is 1/ long rest
    -Removed True Strength ability
    -Diehard allows you to add your proficiency bonus to death saving throws.

    Sanguine blade
    -Bloodlust is renamed Adrenaline Surge[/i] and only activates if you are at or below 1/2 health (and even then, only for 1 minute/ short rest).
    -Extra fighting style removed.

    [u]Blood lord

    -Re-focused to control and debuffs. All damaging abilities removed.
    -Blood bolts replaced with Manipulative blood.
    -Blood puppet moved to level 10 ability slot.
    -[b]Consume corpse[/i] renamed and refluffed to Infused corpse. Consume, Nightmare engine and Putrefy are the only three options, and they are chosen from at the time of infusing.
    -Agony removed from the list of Pain augments. No replacement.
    -Blood Mastery is removed and instead replaced by Nightmare child. Nightmare child's attributes:

    Nightmare child: Reaching the pinnacle of his fell craft, the blood lord is a horror to even look at. At level 20 he generates a black aura that infects those around him, boiling their blood with their most primal fears, sapping their will to fight, and driving them away. Whenever a hostile creature moves within 30' of the blood lord, they must make a charisma saving throw or be inflicted with the frightened condition and spend their actions running away from the blood lord for one minute. A creature may only be frightened once every 24 hours by this ability. Creatures immune to the frightened status are immune to this effect. The blood lord himself becomes immune to all fear effects, and he gains advantage on saving throws against charm effects.
    My homebrew

    5th Edition
    3.5/ Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Sartharina View Post
    No, John Wizard, you are the simulacrum.
    And then John was a snowman.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnomes2169 View Post
    When you get it, it's 3 points of in-combat only fast healing. This is to offset the 7-9 damage you will be taking either from attacks against you or attacks against allies. The champion fighter (which is a terrible subclass that should not be compared to genuinely) heals outside of combat up to 1/2 hp, and the oath of the ancients gives you rather a lot more in casting buffing goodness. Neither of those classes are taking nearly the magnitude of damage as the sanguine knight will be. (CR 2 creatures alone deal 11 damage on a normal hit, while CR 6 (where the sanguine knight will be healing 7 hp/ round) there are creatures bursting for 40, and more average creatures hitting for 16-24 twice/ round.) Taking half the damage for allies from most, if not all, hits is, in fact, a massive amount of damage to be taking.


    Um, true strength is only to yourself, is only +8 at level 17 if you take unbroken heart (likely, but with only 3 possible choices and 6 options, not necessarily the top pick) lasts for 1 minute/ long rest, and only applies to melee attacks. Swapping it to "use your constitution bonus instead of your strength bonus." Might work better (it maxes out at +3 damage instead), and would allow it to function off of short rests instead.

    And do we have the same player's handbook? Because I'm looking at Agonizing Blast on page 110 and Lifedrinker on page 111, which both add your charisma modifier as damage on a hit.

    No, mundane cover still foils true sight. Monster Manual page 9:

    ((For ease of use, the parts of the sight that don't apply to what the sanguine knight can do are struck through, as the sanguine knight's truesight specifically only applies to living creatures))


    Flipping over to the first CR 16 creature in the book (the Planetar), it hits twice/ round for 43 damage. The very next creature (CR 21) is the Solar, who hits for 49 damage 2/ round, can searing burst as a legendary action (28 damage) and has a slaying longbow (32 damage, must make a DC 15 con save if under 100 HP or immediately die). The next creature on our list is the Behir, who is a CR 11 creature that deals 66 damage with its breath weapon. The beholder (CR 13) can petrify as a dex save, or hit with a disintegration ray or death ray (45 and 55 damage respectively). Death knight (CR 17) deals 70 damage with its hellfire orb, 28 before smiting with its attack (it makes 3, and can add 27x2 or 22x3 from it). Demilich (CR 18) can give you disadvantage and reduces max HP each hit. Balors just laugh on crits (9d8+8+9d8 damage). Bearded devils (CR 3) can easily swarm and bleed the immortal out (there would be around 20 of them for a CR 17 challenge. Good luck.) Dragon turtle (CR 17) breath weapon, 52 damage. Any young or older dragon's breath weapon, 42+. I've gotten through the D's, and there are creatures that easily force a DC 21+ saving throw on the sanguine knight without crits. The terrasque is not nearly the damage king you seem to be thinking, and there are many, many ways to kill without targeting HP (lich's power word kill, for example).

    Now is it hard for a swarm to take the immortal down? Yes. Is it impossible? No, math and bad rolling still favor the swarm (especially bearded devils, which can ramp up the pain rather quickly). Everyone rolls a 1 eventually, after all. Maybe setting Undying to 1/long rest would be for the best, but you do vastly underestimate the raw power of a good chunk of the monster manual, methinks.


    I literally just used the fighter's subclass formula. I've honestly been thinking of switching the level 17 subclass abilities to level 20 and just giving the SK immunity to stunned and the first two levels of exhaustion at level 17, which would be a bit better...


    The sanguine blade has this once (remember, I removed bloody step entirely) and it is at level 3... Let's look at other classes that do this: Paladins (in fact, they get 3 abilities; two channel divinities and their bonus always-memorized spells list), all wizards (at level 1, no less), eldrich knights (spell casting and weapon bond), battle masters (superiority dice and maneuvers), Totem barbarian (spirit seeker and totem spirit), bards (proficiencies + extras), clerics (all domains give proficiencies+spells+special channel divinities that don't even follow the subclass progression), druid, rogue, warlock.

    I think that's literally everything but the ranger, bard and champion fighter... One of which is a full caster, the other two are not all too useful. So the sanguine blade is more than alright having its two nice things at level 3... The immortal, however, I might just remove True Strength from, because of the overlap and the way it jars with the class fluff.


    So what you are saying is, limit it to only when you are at 1/2 or less HP? I'm hearing limit it to 1/2 or less HP...


    Actually, before the edit I wanted to make a subset of the "blood knight" that might as well being a living vampire, using blood manipulation effects and fighting from there. Now that would actually be a solid base class to expand upon, but instead, I decided to re-focus the blood lord, making it into a blood bender instead. Where the other subclasses are a protector and a slayer respectively, the blood lord is a tyrant, evil with a capital E, and the abilities are thematic to that. Throwing blood as a weapon is the easiest thing to do, so that is the first ability. Not being able to do it every round out of hand forces the blood lord to stay in melee or rely on mundane equipment. Reconstituting and manipulating flesh is actually harder than just eating it, so I'ma swap around blood puppet and consume corpse. But the puppet fits the tyrant aspect of it, as does pain. Kill someone and make them serve you, or force someone to be your slave by racking them with pain? Check. Consume corpse is a holdout of the vampire aspect of the class, and very well might be changed because of that... But I think there is something that should be looked at here.

    Each subclass for most of the PHB plays like... Well, the base class. Each paladin does a different thing, but they all play like a paladin and smite. Each cleric clerics, each sorcerer sorcerers, and each bard bards. However, each of them varies wildly in how they do this. For bards, you have a full support, and bards do support, but it is also a caster that can do more with skills and magic. The valor bard also supports, like all bards, and also mixes melee and damage into what it does. Both of them are still bards and feel like bards, despite having completely different focuses and playstyles. If we look at the totem barbarian, each of them looks and feels like a totem barbarian, despite even the subclass having different playstyles (Bear is a tank, the eagle is a mobile weapon dancer, and the wolf is a silent pack leader).

    And then you have the fighter, ranger and rogue, who's subclasses play similarly only in name or one, maybe two similar ways (rouge gonna sneak, fighter gonna smack things with a stick, ranger gonna [del]suck[/del] shoot). You could make one or two of their subclasses into base classes or just a part of the base class (*cough, champion, cough*) and they wouldn't play any differently.

    The sanguine knight takes a little from column A and B. It is a heavily armored/ armed blood knight that tanks for and protects its allies. The immortal does this by being nearly unkillable, and granting protection to allies passively through its blood bond. The sanguine blade viciously retaliates, and passively makes his allies more powerful, allowing them to kill threats faster. And then you have the blood lord, who mechanically tanks for allies by debuffing enemies and adding a more easily targetable creature to inflict damage upon. All of them absorb damage in place of their allies, all of them recover health in some way, and all of them are melee-focused tanks. As well, all of them are blood-themed and use their blood bonds in their own unique ways (Immortal is defensive, sanguine blade is offensive, blood lord is manipulative).

    Setting it like that, the oddball ability out is blood bolts... Which honestly, could be replaced with something forcing a creature into an unwilling blood bond, or maybe just dabbling in enhancing the members that have been bonded already. I can actually come up with something here...

    Manipulate bond: Starting at level 3, the blood lord may attempt to force a temporary blood bond on an unwilling creature. As an action, he may force an adjacent living creature without a blood bond to make a wisdom saving throw. If they fail, they are treated as if they were bonded to the blood lord and they are friendly towards the blood lord and any of his bonded allies. Finally, the blood lord has advantage on all deception and persuasion skills when interacting with this creature. This blood bond and its effect last for up to one hour, and at the end of this hour the creature immediately becomes hostile to the blood lord and all of his blood bonded allies. Manipulative bond may be used once per short rest. Creatures immune to charm effects are immune to this ability.

    Similarly, consume corpse will likely become infuse corpse, and consume will just be one of a (smaller pool of) options (likely, just consume, nightmare engine and putrefy.)


    As I said, editing. I am doing it as I go. As blood bolt is going away anyway, I'm not sure how relevant this might be... But while getting a magic weapon might be easy, I know no way to make an ability that deals weapon damage deal magical weapon damage unless the ability eventually grants it.


    And once again, the edits are real. None of these objections are still true, so judging it now, on its current incarnation, do you think it is broken? And durable gives resistance, not immunity... So it's taking 50% damage from energy attacks and normal weapon attacks, and 100% damage from magic weapons (which, as you noted, are easy to obtain).


    Cure wounds, regeneration, lay on hands and heal are all also healing that you don't have to spend hit die on, and you actually do have to spend short rest to get it (charges recharge on a short rest). The reason it was given was to alleviate some of the healing pressure on clerics, which is why (even though it's being rewritten/ renamed) it's going to stick around as an option.


    Um... Once resisted, the creature is freed from pain permanently, and you only get one use of pain per day. It also requires your concentration to activate, and to maintain while activated, so... You actually can't chain it with your other concentration abilities.


    I could have sworn it was 30'... typo. And the wing attack takes your bonus action (which would alternately be spent directing your blood puppet).

    However, I'm replacing this entire ability with the an ability I call Nightmare child... Which should be fun for the whole family!

    So then, change log from this post:

    General
    -Final subclass abilities are now obtained at level 20.
    -Level 17 now grants the ability Unbreakable: The sanguine knight is so used to pain and battle hardened that he can shrug off some of the most staggering blows. At level 17, he becomes immune to the stunned and paralyzed conditions.

    Immortal:
    -Undying is 1/ long rest
    -Removed True Strength ability
    -Diehard allows you to add your proficiency bonus to death saving throws.

    Sanguine blade
    -Bloodlust is renamed Adrenaline Surge[/i] and only activates if you are at or below 1/2 health (and even then, only for 1 minute/ short rest).
    -Extra fighting style removed.

    [u]Blood lord

    -Re-focused to control and debuffs. All damaging abilities removed.
    -Blood bolts replaced with Manipulative blood.
    -Blood puppet moved to level 10 ability slot.
    -[b]Consume corpse[/i] renamed and refluffed to Infused corpse. Consume, Nightmare engine and Putrefy are the only three options, and they are chosen from at the time of infusing.
    -Agony removed from the list of Pain augments. No replacement.
    -Blood Mastery is removed and instead replaced by Nightmare child. Nightmare child's attributes:

    Nightmare child: Reaching the pinnacle of his fell craft, the blood lord is a horror to even look at. At level 20 he generates a black aura that infects those around him, boiling their blood with their most primal fears, sapping their will to fight, and driving them away. Whenever a hostile creature moves within 30' of the blood lord, they must make a charisma saving throw or be inflicted with the frightened condition and spend their actions running away from the blood lord for one minute. A creature may only be frightened once every 24 hours by this ability. Creatures immune to the frightened status are immune to this effect. The blood lord himself becomes immune to all fear effects, and he gains advantage on saving throws against charm effects.
    1. In which at that point you only have one and I assume just like pretty much any ability it is a choice. So saying that it needs a far better regeneration this early on is like saying I need the wedding cake 3 months before the actual day. At level 3, the most you will be swarmed with are goblins or a few orcs. You might take on a couple of large creatures.
    2. The Sanguine blade though had a consitution bonus buff damage, but you changed that. Also, Life-Drinker requires the Pact Weapon and here is the text for it. "When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the
    creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)." Agonizing Blast " When you cast eldritch blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit."
    3. Half of them are either action based effects or even require recharge. You should look at whether or not those instant kills are based off of maximum hp.
    4. Yours details physical concealment.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2014-10-28 at 06:13 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Feb 2012

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    The type A's as you describe them though didn't take the liberty to almost define an entire set of active abilities on a chasis that its main purpose is to be as a resilient and lucky as possible. Your chasis in and of itself is not defined well in its respect. A Barbarian can be one without a the Primal Path but they do take it in a couple different directions in which are very welcome. I guess the real question is how essential are many of those things to the vision of the class and should they replace with possibly more active things rather than buffs and luck?

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    1. In which at that point you only have one and I assume just like pretty much any ability it is a choice. So saying that it needs a far better regeneration this early on is like saying I need the wedding cake 3 months before the actual day. At level 3, the most you will be swarmed with are goblins or a few orcs. You might take on a couple of large creatures.
    At level 2, you will have 25 HP on average. This is as much as a barbarian, who has damage resistance instead of a damage sponge ability, and 3hp/ round takes 8 rounds of no one on your team taking hits at all to heal fully (but your team has to hit someone). At this level, 8 goblins or 4 orcs/ hobgoblins are an average encounter, or 2 acolytes, who have bless, guiding bolt and cure wounds/ other spellcasting to ensure they deal at least a little bit of damage (typically, with such high hp for a CR 1, it will be around 5-6 each, and they will likely go after the melee line in their face).

    It stays 3 at level 3 (when you have 35 hp and damage bumps to ~12-15/ round round over all characters), becomes 4 at level 4 (unless you skip boosting con to get a feat, which is definitely an option. In which case, it stays 3). Stays 3/4 at level 5... You know what, a table for demonstrations might be helpful!

    Note, maximum immortal HP is based on the immortal taking Unbroken Heart as quickly as possible, and rounds to heal is calculated by how long it will take to recover from the DPR.
    Level Max HP (average, no subclass) Max immortal HP Crimson revelry healing Average DPR based on CR Rounds to heal
    1 15 15 -- 4-6 --
    2 25 25 3 8-11 2-3
    3 35 [td]38 3 (4) 12-15 4-5
    4 45/ 49 49/ 53 3/4 (4/5) 16-19 5-7/ 4-5 (4-5/ 4)
    5 55/ 60 60/ 65 3/4 (4/5) 21-25 7-9/6-8 (6-8/ 5)
    6 65/ 71 71/ 77 6/7 (7/8) 25-29 5/4-5 (4-5/4)
    Etc, etc. There are some relatively massive outliers, such as breath weapons, spells or save or/ and suck effects, but for the most part a creature or swarm of creatures' physical DPR won't break the formula (which caps out at around 89-100 dpr by level 20. Higher CR's do more or rely on save/ sucks or instant kills) The rate at which you heal and the rate which damage grows never actually swings in your favor, even with natural healer helping boost you along.

    Though, admittedly, at level 2 when you only have the 1 blood bond it might not be the most necessary. You will want some kind of increased healing, however, as you can predict who the most likely target will be and will likely be taking some damage for them, and it's not like the enemies will avoid a party member because they have a blood bond (there isn't any obvious sign, after all). Once you get a second blood bond, you will need some kind of reliable healing rather soon to keep from needing a short rest/ burning all of the clerics spells on healing just you, so the latest I feel crimson revelry can be delayed to is level 6.

    Fortunately, this means that I can swap the healing abilities in question. Natural healer is a less potent ability over all, and should be enough to handle the damage level 2-5 (making the cleric's life a little easier), while crimson revelry is moved to level 6 because that's pretty much the last level you can get it without making your blood bonds into literally suicide.

    As a note, typically targets to bond (listed in priority) would be: 1. Fellow frontliner, 2. Squishiest squishy, 3. Rogue, 4. Healer, 5. Druid/ barbarian. Frontlines (including you) will be the most targeted, squishy wizards/ warlocks/ sorcs need the protecting second most, because of their low hp (they do not get spot 1 because they don't get in melee, typically). Rogues/ bards are tricky, long ranged fighters with decent HP, they don't need your bond until later game, typically (if they focus on melee, however, they become priority 1). Druids don't need more hp. They really, really don't. And typically, you only have a 4 person party, so bonds after the first 3 are typically for NPC's/ DM PC's.

    2. The Sanguine blade though had a consitution bonus buff damage, but you changed that. Also, Life-Drinker requires the Pact Weapon and here is the text for it. "When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the
    creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1)." Agonizing Blast " When you cast eldritch blast, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals on a hit."
    So it was that the constitution modifier was being added, not charisma? Because those two abilities do a lot of extra damage on their own, even though they add charisma to damage (up to +5 per hit, which makes agonizing blast a +20 damage ability if all four shots hit).

    3. Half of them are either action based effects or even require recharge. You should look at whether or not those instant kills are based off of maximum hp.
    Every attack will be action based, except for a dual wielder's bonus attack action or quickened spells/ legendary action. The most powerful ones will be on a recharge or limited charge system, while attacks will be every single round. Any attacks that can kill instantly will target current HP, not maximum, or will just ignore HP entirely.

    Also remember, undying is 1/ long rest now, so while the immortal is still hard to kill, he will go down eventually.

    4. Yours details physical concealment.
    Then I suppose I'll have to fix that. It's just supposed to be Truesight... And this is why I should stop making things at/ after midnight. -_-

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    The type A's as you describe them though didn't take the liberty to almost define an entire set of active abilities on a chasis that its main purpose is to be as a resilient and lucky as possible. Your chasis in and of itself is not defined well in its respect. A Barbarian can be one without a the Primal Path but they do take it in a couple different directions in which are very welcome. I guess the real question is how essential are many of those things to the vision of the class and should they replace with possibly more active things rather than buffs and luck?
    This... Is a good point. The barbarian is a barbarian because of rage, the paladin is a paladin because of smite, lay on hands and his auras, and the fighter fights. The sanguine knight is supposed to be focused on his blood bonds, remarkable ability to recover and just general survivability. I'm not exactly sure where that got away from me. I think I'll go through the general class features again, likely replace a few with some blood-bond flavored actives...
    My homebrew

    5th Edition
    3.5/ Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Sartharina View Post
    No, John Wizard, you are the simulacrum.
    And then John was a snowman.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnomes2169's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Derp
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Conversion/ Part 1 of mega-brew project: The Sanguine Knight (Class)

    Alright, bonded abilities added to the base class. Starting at level 1, we have:

    -Level 1: Bonded communication: The blood bond is a living network that the sanguine knight and his allies can use for more than just combat. Starting at level 1 the sanguine knight and blood bonded allies within 100' of him may communicate with one another telepathically. This communication tends to be primitive, the transmission of images, scents, sounds and communication instead of literal verbal communication. The sanguine knight's connection to his bonded allies grants him advantage on is intuition checks to determine the emotional state of his allies, and to determine if they are lying to him. ((New))

    -Level 11: Bonded transposition: At level 11, the sanguine knight may use their connection through the blood bond to physically swap places with one of their bonded allies. As a reaction to an ally being hit by an attack in melee range within 100', the sanguine knight may immediately switch positions with them, becoming the new target of the attack and moving his ally out of harm's way. This movement does not provoke an opportunity attack if it moves the bonded ally out of the enemy's reach. The intercepted attack roll is remade, and if it hits then damage is dealt as normal. Bonded transposition may be used once per short rest. ((... can't remember what this replaced))

    -Level 14: Bonded concentration: Beginning at level 14, the sanguine knight is able to assume control of an ally's ongoing concentration effect through the blood bond. As an action, the sanguine knight may become the new controller of a spell or ability with a duration that includes concentration in its descriptor. he then controls the spell, making concentration saving throws when applicable, and if the spell has a range of self, gaining the benefits it confers. If the spell may be re-targeted, then the sanguine knight may do so as per the spell's entry, otherwise the targets of the spell remain the same. Regardless of the spell's normal duration, a concentration spell transferred in this way has its remaining duration lowered or raised to 1 minute, at which point it immediately ends. Bonded concentration may be used once per short rest. ((Replaced vital sight))

    -Level 17: Bonded resurgence: At level 17 the sanguine knight's mastery of the blood bond makes it so that his allies have a rather hard time dying. The first time a blood bonded ally would be dropped to less than 0 hit points per long rest but not killed outright, the sanguine knight may use his reaction to make it so that the ally is at 1 hit point instead. Bonded resurgence may be used once per long rest. ((Replaced Unbreakable))

    Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
    My homebrew

    5th Edition
    3.5/ Pathfinder

    Quote Originally Posted by Sartharina View Post
    No, John Wizard, you are the simulacrum.
    And then John was a snowman.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •