General Marvel Comics thread

[Dusk Eclipse]

@Metahuman1: There is simply no way Marvel can even attempt to make a One More day movie, as Reverent-One said, the premise of OMD was to Reboot Spidey to basically being a "looser" teenager, the thing is that he is sitll a teenager at this point! Furthermore he doesn't even know MJ yet (she was supposed to appear in Electro Boogalo, don't remember if Sony said why they cut her part from the movie). Concerning Civil War, it hinges on the aftermath of Avengers 2 (I suppose that Iron Man building Ultron will probably be the schism that leads to Civil War), personally I think it was a fairly interesting premise (the idea of the "heroes" fighting against each other due ideological difference, I really don't have strong opinions about the super registration act) so I'm actually looking forward to see the MCU's take on that so for the time being I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Kitten Champion]

On the MCU front, while they're hinting at bringing some Civil War elements into the it, whatever they're going to do is going to very different from the comics version because the two universes are very different. Superhero registration being a thing is pretty irrelevant in the MCU because none of the heroes really have secret identities. So we'll have to see what "some elements of the Civil War event" actually involves.

As we've discussed in other threads, it's all there for a Civil War-type event in the MCU.

Biggest issue is it can't be a real "war" since there are too few characters involved for something so grandiose, but as the conflict in Cap 3... yeah, it'll work well.

On top of that, that doesn't mean anything about the likelihood of One More Day happening in the MCU. The entire point of that event was to split up Spidey and MJ and basically reboot him. With Spidey not yet established in the MCU, even assuming a bunch of Joe Quesada involvement in creative direction, they can just establish him in that form from the get go.

It's kind of like upon first hearing there's going to be an Antman movie, to immediately assume they're just making it so Hank Pym can have that scene where he slaps around Wasp. As clearly Marvel Studios has been anxiously awaiting the opportunity to create its own Springtime for Hitler.

[Man on Fire]

@Metahuman1 - chill out, okay? First, it's probably just some miniseries that will tie to Secret Wars, alongside Age of Ultron vs Marvel Zombies. On 4chan we suspect they might do more of that stuff - fights of events or status quos from various times and alternate realities. Worldbreaker Hulk vs Maestro, Kaine vs Scarlet Spider Kaine, Masked Strange vs Spawn-knockoff Strange, Onslaught vs Red Onslaught. So it's probably going to be some visit in alternate reality or stuff.
And even if - who cares? Its Avengers, they'll be fine in few months, like they always are.

EDIT: On 4chan somebody had a nice theory. These "events" will be about Incrusions happening on different Earths. Incrusion between Age of Ultron and Marvel Zombies, between some X-Men worlds and one including world where Civil War is happening.

I'm not sure how well one could predict his work in the former based on the latter.

Well, if absolutely terrible character assasinations of Nico and Hazmat are any indicator how he writes women, then I want to be how far away from his Spider-Woman as possible.
And him talking about how he "likes survivors" which sounds like he just likes to watch women suffer, doesn't make me too optimistic either.

[GameSpawn]

Well, if absolutely terrible character assasinations of Nico and Hazmat are any indicator how he writes women, then I want to be how far away from his Spider-Woman as possible.
And him talking about how he "likes survivors" which sounds like he just likes to watch women suffer, doesn't make me too optimistic either.

Well, as noted previously I don't really agree with your criticisms of their story arcs, so I remain optimistic.

On an unrelated note: what have people thought about Death of Wolverine? I haven't really been following it, except for some of the tie-ins in other ongoings, but Wolverines sounds interesting, so I'm wondering if the event is worth checking out.

[IronFist]

I'm about to begin the new Deadly Hands of Kung-fu! Wish me luck.

[GameSpawn]

I'm about to begin the new Deadly Hands of Kung-fu! Wish me luck.

Good luck!

[Man on Fire]

Well, as noted previously I don't really agree with your criticisms of their story arcs, so I remain optimistic.

Have you ever actually read anything with either of them not written by him? Because I noticed people who defend their story arcs (what story arcs? Giving in to writer's MRA ideology?) mostly turn out to have never read anything with those characters before.
And one more thing. Guy openly said he always only picks the "cool stuff" of character's personalities and history and discards everything else. Which I could get for guys with 600+ issues of history, when applied to characters with so few apperances they can all be read in one evening time, I find disrespectfull to the characters, their fans and especially to writers who worked on them before. Especially when he managed to miss core concepts of the characters and often ignored things he couldn't ignore. I mean, how do you take a character whose sole power is "has a dinosaur" and ignore the dinosaur? Twice?! It's like if the guy decided to write Spider-Man robbing banks because he thought "power and responsibility" is boring. So another reason why I won't be reading his boooks, I find his approach appaling. It just screams of lazy writing.

On an unrelated note: what have people thought about Death of Wolverine? I haven't really been following it, except for some of the tie-ins in other ongoings, but Wolverines sounds interesting, so I'm wondering if the event is worth checking out.

Good ridance, Wolverine was always been worthless character. I'll give Wolverines a try because of X-23, and maybe to Weapon X Program. Through I find that after casually discarding Runaways and showing their fans a finger like they did, saying new book is like "Runaways meets Frankenstein" or Runaways meets anything is just plain insulting. You know, in a "The hell with you people, and the hell with what you want, we will just recycle concept! And wi will do it right - with Wolverine!" way. It seems mean-spirited.
(I really, really dislike Wolverine, okay?)

[GameSpawn]

Have you ever actually read anything with either of them not written by him? Because I noticed people who defend their story arcs (what story arcs? Giving in to writer's MRA ideology?) mostly turn out to have never read anything with those characters before.
And one more thing. Guy openly said he always only picks the "cool stuff" of character's personalities and history and discards everything else. Which I could get for guys with 600+ issues of history, when applied to characters with so few apperances they can all be read in one evening time, I find disrespectfull to the characters, their fans and especially to writers who worked on them before. Especially when he managed to miss core concepts of the characters and often ignored things he couldn't ignore. I mean, how do you take a character whose sole power is "has a dinosaur" and ignore the dinosaur? Twice?! It's like if the guy decided to write Spider-Man robbing banks because he thought "power and responsibility" is boring. So another reason why I won't be reading his boooks, I find his approach appaling. It just screams of lazy writing.

I've read all 3 volumes of Runaways, the Secret Avengers/Runaways tie-ins to Secret Invasion and Civil War, and Avengers Academy. I think that's all the stories where they make noteworthy appearances, though if there are others, I'd be happy to check them out. I think Nico's character arc throughout AA/AU is basically this: she gets dragged into Murderworld, is disheartened by the way the other characters react and begins feeling like she can't rely on Chase, which feeds into the attitude she's developed since finding out her parents were evil where she feels like she can't rely on anyone. She retreats further into herself, hiding from the world by mostly just interacting with Alex, who doesn't seem "real" to her, and despite being evil is still sort of a reminder of better days. Eventually she realizes she's can't shut the world out and returns to help her team mates against the Masters of Evil.

Jenn's character arc is more simple: she gets brought to Murderworld, sees everything generally go to hell, gets even more pissed off at the world then she already was, attacks Arcade, then spends the rest of Avengers Undercover building herself back up by forcing herself to work with the other characters in the series.

Honestly, they're not the best character arcs I've ever read; they're decent enough though, and I don't think they're misogynistic or misanthropic (in fact, I'd argue they take a fairly optimistic view of human nature; they show that people go through all kinds of hell, they can still make it out and be good guys (or neutral guys) again).

Sometimes writers discarding the aspects of characters they don't like is the better choice; I'm quite happy not to see Warpath flying or Moon Knight cutting off everyone's faces, and much happier that Northstar is a mutant and not actually some sort of half faerie. Other times, it doesn't work so well. In this case, it's just a matter of not having Old Lace with him at the time, though, so I'm not sure that even qualifies.

Good ridance, Wolverine was always been worthless character. I'll give Wolverines a try because of X-23, and maybe to Weapon X Program. Through I find that after casually discarding Runaways and showing their fans a finger like they did, saying new book is like "Runaways meets Frankenstein" or Runaways meets anything is just plain insulting. You know, in a "The hell with you people, and the hell with what you want, we will just recycle concept! And wi will do it right - with Wolverine!" way. It seems mean-spirited.
(I really, really dislike Wolverine, okay?)

Quite frankly, I don't care that much for Wolverine either. I have nothing against the character, but he just appears in too many things for me to want to check him out in his solo titles. I will say, however, that I really liked the Nightcrawler tie-in to Death of Wolverine.

[Man on Fire]

Sorry, but I just cannot agree with you. Nico was never kind of person to retreat in some sort of fantasies upon seeing a problem and even when dealing with trauma she could find in herself strength to stand in. And she wasn't so damn selfish and passive when that happened. She never had the feeling she cannot rely on anybody either - she relies on rest of her team all the time in Runaways, she just doesn't trust adults. I don't see it working for Jen either, mostly because her arc is too damn focused on Aiden to be even her arc.

And in the end they both, and pretty simply all of them, end up useless against Zmo and Avengers and Cammi has to save their butts. They all are more or less close to give in and suddenly turn back because their pleads to Avengers to come and save them worked. For me this is most misanthropic theme ever. It says that if you are not perfect, they you WILL fall into evil and you will not will, no matter what you do and only can survive if perfect people, the true ubermensh, save you. This is sick, on every level.

And it doesn't even make sense on meta level ,because Marvel heroes were never perfect. Out of their first three superheroes one had licence to kill, another was a terrorist and thrid didn't caught up until they stick his name of stupid teenager.

As for ignoring aspects of the characters - there is a difference between throwing away what doesn't work, like things you listed and throwing away what does works because it would worce you to write a story. First is trying to improve the character and can in fact take a lot of hard work (Kaine Parker being a good example of it done right), second is forcing characters into plot they doesn't fit into (especially insulting if you claim to be writing character-driven story), showing you really have no interest in them as characters and just being plain lazy.
And it's not just about the Old Lace but about how he threw away every bit of Nico, Chase's and everyone else's personalities that did not fit into "his vision". His misgonistic, misanthropic, racist vision.

Anyway, lets talk about something nice. Anyone here reads Superior Foes of Spider-Man? Man, this book is so damn good, last two issues made me histerically laugh with all the

Spoiler: spoiler

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Betrayals they pull on each other. And that stuff with Abner

.
Is this the last issue of this series? I thought there is still one more but I'm not sure.

[Man on Fire]

Sorry for double post, but does anybody here reads Spider-Verse? I've picked this issue of Amazing Spider-Man for Spider-Girl apperance (I loved her as a teen) and...

Spoiler: And this happened

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They murdered her dad and possibly mother an boyfriend as well. And it looks like they did it to push her to abbandon her ideals and values and go all dark and revenge'y. I mean yeah, she has her reasons to be angry and wanting to kill Daemos but it jut clashes with what has always been her appeal - happier, more optimistic stories than regular Spidey.

I'm not happy about it.

[GameSpawn]

Anyway, lets talk about something nice.

I enjoy talking about series I read, whether it be to criticize or praise them, and I felt like we were covering some interesting ground. I don't want to push an argument with someone who doesn't want to have it though, so I guess I'll refrain from explaining why I don't find your arguments compelling.

(I haven't read Superior Foes and though I've been reading Spider-verse, I'm not too familiar with Spider-girl, so I have nothing in particular to say about either of those).

[Thrudd]

Finally caught up on

Spoiler: Captain America

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Does anyone else think that Iron Nail's ability to neutralize the serum should have been played up a lot more, or at least mentioned? Maybe they were trying to prevent the reader from seeing it coming, but it felt completely unexplained to me. I realize he aged Fury temporarily early in the story arc, so why is it permanent for Steve? Isn't the super soldier serum way more potent than the infinity formula?

I really enjoyed the series, other than that narrative point.

[JoshL]

Just in case anyone has missed it: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=56590 Two page Squirrel Girl preview in that there interview.

...I may need to record that song....

[Thrudd]

Well, as noted previously I don't really agree with your criticisms of their story arcs, so I remain optimistic.

On an unrelated note: what have people thought about Death of Wolverine? I haven't really been following it, except for some of the tie-ins in other ongoings, but Wolverines sounds interesting, so I'm wondering if the event is worth checking out.

I wasn't that impressed. I was hoping for something a bit more epic. It certainly ended poetically, though I'm still not sure how anyone found out what happened to him.

Spoiler: The end

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He was alone at a secret facility in the middle of the desert, and completely coated in molten adamantium. Did anyone even know where he was?

The Nightcrawler tie in was nice. Storm was ok. By the time I got to Wolverine and the X-Men tie in, I was sick of it. I am annoyed by those issues where they have a bunch of disconnected mini-stories each with different artists, half of them with extreme stylized styles which I find very distracting.

[Man on Fire]

I really hate Marvel's double-faced approach to handling character deaths. When an A-List superhero dies, suddenly every comics related even a little has to do a story about characters dealing with his death. Which look silly when said character is back in a year. But when a C-Lister dies, and they have good chances of never coming back again, it's swept under the rug and we never see even their closest friends dealing with it. And no, @#$%ing Undercover doesn't count, it's actually the biggest offender of that since no attention at all is given to characters killed in Arena and all focus is about how "ARCADE TOTALLY BROKE THE SURVIVORS BECAUSE HE IS MUH FAVORITE CHARACTER!". And when fans complain, suddenly everyone says people don't like reading about characters moruning. Unless it's an A_Lsiter of course, then we do dozen of comics eactly about it.
It's sick. It's corrupt. It's showing balant favoritism, showing that only characters that make ton of money matter and rest are trash to be thrown away. It's one of the ulotimate ways in which they show us they don't care about quality of their storytelling, just about money.
So that whole death of wolverine thing, with it's dozen of miniseries and spinoffs and tie-ins can burn. Mettle and Juston didn't even get a page to show their parents dealing with their death, why should I care about that stupid drunk wth claws?

[Aotrs Commander]

They actually killed Wolverine?

REALLY?

*sigh*

I don't know whether to be outraged that they killed my second-favourite X-Man or to laugh hysterically at the ludicrousness of the idea, because, yeah, THAT'll stick: I'll be frankly amazed if they make it last a year. He's not notoriously one of their most marketable characters or anything, is he? (It's DEFINITELY not going to last more than three years at most, since I REALLY can't see them keeping him dead for when his next solo movie comes out in 2017...!)

Wait, sorry, hang on, Nightcrawler is alive again? Pfftahahahahahaha! Oh, man, yeah, definitely the latter, definitely the latter. Hey, Kurt must have spent very nearly long dead as Colossus, right?

I have always said to myself, when they finally decide to pull this crap with Jubilee (and I'm sure they will try at some point), I will be finally officially done with Marvel comics.

[Man on Fire]

To be fair, when they killed him, his comics were selling pretty bad. People were fed up with his apperances everywhere and with what gary stu he became. Because look at what they turned him into. He was a school director trying to be example to kids, while secretely leading his own team of assassins. He was a loner who doesn't work well with the others and yet is on eight superhero teams. He was man without past, who took a part in every important event in Marvel history. He was beyond ridiculous.
Good riddance, hope he stays dead as long as possible.

[Kitten Champion]

The Wolverines weekly series might actually be worth reading and to me that would justify this whole Death of Wolverine thing I was otherwise ignoring. I like Charles Soule's work and X-23, so I'll give it a shot.

[Aotrs Commander]

To be fair, when they killed him, his comics were selling pretty bad. People were fed up with his apperances everywhere and with what gary stu he became. Because look at what they turned him into. He was a school director trying to be example to kids, while secretely leading his own team of assassins. He was a loner who doesn't work well with the others and yet is on eight superhero teams. He was man without past, who took a part in every important event in Marvel history. He was beyond ridiculous.
Good riddance, hope he stays dead as long as possible.

*sigh*

It's funny how this is the default response to creativity issues, isn't it? Too many mutants? Kill 'em off! Too many characters? Kill 'em off! Too much Wolverine? Kill him off!

The thought of actually, y'know, telling the comic writers "no, you can't make him a mutant/no, you can't have Wolverine on your team" didn't occur to them. Isn't this why you're SUPPOSED to have editors and creative overseer people or something...

[Man on Fire]

They don't do killing for that. They do it because they think that it's the only thing that makes books sells. Which is stupid when a book about murdering teenagers failed spectacularly in sales. What was their response? Re-evaluate their principles and try something new? Nope, instead they put mass slaughter into Spider-Man event that would sell buckets even if it as about eating pizza, just to prove that no, they are right, murderign characters does sell.

Another problem is the ego of some fans. The sense of entitlement some of them crave. Everything needs to be important, everything must change things forever. Doesn't matter if change in question never had been developed before being swept away or if it's not just undoing of previous even't changes, all it matters is that comics feel "important" so these people can feel they rad something that will be remembered for decades. Doesn't matter if that something is garbage, quality and actual storytelling took a backseat to big headlines and cheap controversy and hype.

That beign said, to hell with Wolverine.

[Thrudd]

I did like Wolverine's character over the last few years. He had grown as a person and had clear priorities. They also addressed how he was on way too many teams, at least someone mentioned "you're on like eight teams! You need to slow down", and he was always limping into school with arrows and shuriken sticking out of him and utterly failing at being a headmaster, which led to him stepping down eventually. I liked him having to deal with no healing factor, it felt like every fight he got into was actually dangerous, and popping the claws was a serious thing not to be done lightly. I don't think he will stay dead forever, obviously (we've already seen old man Logan with his student all grown up at the school in flash-forwards). I do think it is unnecessary to have multiple entire issues just about characters grieving with nothing else really going on, no matter how popular the character was.

[Metahuman1]

So, apperently Marvel is doing a cross over with Attack on Titan.


I would say at least they got creative for what is likely gonna be another slaughter fest, but when I think about it, it's really just looking at who the top seller is in the Anime/Manga realms right now and trying to cash in on there fame and popularity and fan base. If it was still One Piece, then they'd be doing it with One Piece instead.



So who wants to take bets on weather they take stupid pills for this or not? (You'll be able to tell cause if they don't take stupid pills, it will be over very quickly with the Titans slaughtered whole sale (and Ironically since normally there over powered god mode villain sue's and now all of a sudden THERE the friggen canon fodder going against smaller numbers of opponents who they can't hope to even come close to matching.) and probably feature a number of marvel characters going into Titanverse and fixing the Titans collective little red wagon once and for all in very short order.) and then be over, possibly with Captain America and Ironman and Spiderman and one or two of the more inspirational hero's helping the titan characters get there heads and hearts in a much better place once it's all over.

[Man on Fire]

This is not going to be canon as any crossover. Crossovers with other company properties are not canon because they couldn't refference them in latter stories.
Second, this is tupid, because Scarlet Spider alone could solo all the Titans
Third, I don't like crossovers that much, so I don't care.

But yeah, their obsession with trying to prove murdering characters does sell is becoming sad to watch.

[BRC]

They should do a comic starring one of those heroes that makes clones of themselves. Every month's cover has, in giant text "THE DEATH OF JOE EXPENDABLE" and then in tiny text (#231) or something similar.

[Metahuman1]

More so when attack on titan is a murdering characters love letter by itself, and you just know there gonna tie themselves into knots handing everyone that shows up and nerf ball and an idiot ball the size of the state of new york to make it happen when in reality Spidermans webs should be MORE then capable of restraining titans for long periods of time and he should be plenty capable of busting them up with his canonical strength and utterly out smarting the whole situation.


I'm betting on that not being allowed to happen though. In fact been going back and forth with the Titan thread about it today.

[Aotrs Commander]

But yeah, their obsession with trying to prove murdering characters does sell is becoming sad to watch.

It really is, it really is.

Maybe in another ten or twenty years, times will have changed again... It might take that long; though one would like to hope is doesn't, I'm not optimisitc anymore.

[Man on Fire]

Mike Vieringo said it best, that "event-comic-that-heralds-the-death-of-lots-of-characters has become the new gold-foil/Lenticular/Acetate/holographic cover of the 2000’s." And he said that back when Bart Allen died.

I really hope this stunt dies quickly, it's becoming irritating and horribly harmful to the settings, characters and stories themselves.

[Drascin]

Mike Vieringo said it best, that "event-comic-that-heralds-the-death-of-lots-of-characters has become the new gold-foil/Lenticular/Acetate/holographic cover of the 2000’s." And he said that back when Bart Allen died.

I really hope this stunt dies quickly, it's becoming irritating and horribly harmful to the settings, characters and stories themselves.

Yup. Mostly because people just refuse to care for non-main characters because they simply can be killed at any point to satisfy the current writer's "relevance boner". And when people outright refuse to engage with your stories something has gone wrong.

I mean, I liked the Edge of Spider-verse issues. I like, say, Peni Parker. But I refuse to care for her because she's pure and simply a dead girl walking.

[Man on Fire]

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=56894

I'm starting to think they might actually be doing that stupid reboot. I really hope not, reboots are horrible and never work, especially at Marvel.

[Metahuman1]

Five dollars says if they do the reboot, they give us Spider-man and MJ back together right before hand deliberately just to make it have never happened at all in the reboot canon.