Let's Watch: Trigun

[danzibr]

[CENTER][SIZE=5]Episode 1:
you'd think he'd carry some scars from having all that death following him around

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Hoo boy, just wait.

Spoiler

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After not watching Trigun for probably 10 years, one of the things I remember most.

[TheThan]

Spoiler: on gun origins spoiler

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Its possible the gun’s sights just got misaligned from years of wear and tear. The gunsmith from episode 2... or was it 3... did say it was in pretty bad shape and overhauled it completely for him.

[Dragonus45]

Something that people might find interesting (if they hadn't already noticed) is that Vash's gun fires from the bottom cylinder instead of the customary top one, a very rare design choice in real life.

For anyone else who noticed this and is curious about why a gun would have that as an option I present to you this cool video that talks about it.

[Math_Mage]

Episode 2:
Truth of Mistake

• Head-rocking intro music, away!
• Oh, the other gun in the intro is black. So it's not just the glove.
• And we open with Vash getting shot? Really? After everything that happened last episode, it's this schmuck that makes him bleed? Man...
• And we're out of water.
• And there's Vash. Oh, maybe this old fellow's not a schmuck, and his name's Cliff Cesar. So, the opening was at a different time, or with another Vash impersonator...?
• "Bodygard"..."Vash the Stanpeat"..."3 mears with nap"...um. Guess he is a schmuck. And oblivious, too. He just happens to be oblivious in the right direction.
• Oh, so now we know why Vash is sticking around, and its name is Marianne. Is he playing both sides to get this job?
• The old man keeps going back and forth. Not a total schmuck, but hiring someone who fits the description of his enemy is still pretty schmuck-y.
• And Marianne's a player too? Huh.
• Okay, yada yada, big business evil guy and the villain's beautiful rebellious daughter (friend's daughter?)...
• ...Who was the Vash impersonator. All right.
• Yes, Vash is a stupid idiot.
• This dialogue is making me cringe. Exposition recap followed by Vash being stupid.
• That is a really dumb trigger for a secret entrance. It's designed to be pulled on!
• Boring villain has boring plans that don't make sense. I don't know why Marianne has a crossbow-gun-thing, but it doesn't do her much good if she doesn't, y'know, carry it ready to fire.
• Okay, Vash has reflexes. Still not sure if being silly is an act or the real thing.
• Villain exposits hero's ability. Lame.
• Ice shards don't wound, guns cause electrical shocks, bullets don't make holes. Uh, okay.
• I don't think water works like that.
• Lame dialogue is lame.
• Oh, right, that's where the cat was. I keep forgetting.

No plot advancement; it's plot-of-the-week. C-level stock plot-of-the-week, at that. No character advancement, except for Vash being fast, which we pretty much had figured from last episode. No setting advancement, and so far Trigun is one of the least interesting settings I've seen. Well, at least we know Vash knows he's getting blamed for stuff--I was half wondering if he had memory problems. I guess that could still be the case. But this was just a filler episode, unless Marianne turns up later for good reason. My rating: soggy cereal / breakfast foods.

[LaZodiac]

Okay full disclosure, although it's important to watch them to sort of "set up" the series, the first four or five (I forget which, but you'll know which in the future) are kind of side stories made to build up to how the series proper starts.

So like...yeah. It's filler, but it's an alright kind of filler, and it exists so that when the plot actually starts it never stops. Although I for one quite liked this episode, personally.

[Math_Mage]

I'm willing to wait for the series to start happening, since I'm committed to the LW. (Maybe doing one would help for Utena, which I quit 5 episodes in; that should give you an idea of what an impatient SOB I am.)

[LaZodiac]

I'm willing to wait for the series to start happening, since I'm committed to the LW. (Maybe doing one would help for Utena, which I quit 5 episodes in; that should give you an idea of what an impatient SOB I am.)

Nothing wrong with that. Five in is a good baromiter, but I think it's always important to give things a chance.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This episode, yeah, it's mostly goofy, starry-eyed Vash. The next episode gives the series a bit of weight.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Okay full disclosure, although it's important to watch them to sort of "set up" the series, the first four or five (I forget which, but you'll know which in the future) are kind of side stories made to build up to how the series proper starts.

So like...yeah. It's filler, but it's an alright kind of filler, and it exists so that when the plot actually starts it never stops. Although I for one quite liked this episode, personally.

It also establishes a baseline in the relationship between Vash and the Insurance girls, along with a baseline for Vash himself, the things that happen later would not have as much of Impact if we did not see this stuff.

[Math_Mage]

It also establishes a baseline in the relationship between Vash and the Insurance girls, along with a baseline for Vash himself, the things that happen later would not have as much of Impact if we did not see this stuff.

Using the early episodes to set up the status quo is legitimate storytelling. But to me, this is a rather flat job of it so far. Mostly it's two things: a boring setting, and sidekicks that don't do anything or have any goals apart from watching the main character do his thing.

(Side note: why do all the girls' names start with M?)

New episode up sometime today/night.

[Math_Mage]

Episode 3:
Peace Maker

Okay, so apparently "today/night" means "tomorrow night." Well, my dad had a birthday, so that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Now, to the episode.

• Intro music has me prepped for BADASS THINGS HAPPENING. Let's see it. Hey, is that a lightbulb?
• "Is he, isn't he"...they better have a good payoff for the waffling.
• Drunk guy is drunk at Vash, but is up to something.
• The weapon episode! One can hope. They usually bring character depth.
• Cat in mayor's office! First time I've spotted it on the first playthrough. And it vocalized! My evening is complete.
• Time for another lame villain, so we see how well-armed the town is. Also, "4,000 yars"? Is a yar a unit of distance?
• They're going to...have Vash attack the armored car? That didn't make any sense.
• Oh, hey, double serving of cat!
• So what's Vash carrying in the case, anyway?
• "People only drown themselves in alcohol when they have something they wanna forget." Thanks, Meryl.
• I guess we'll find out why Frank thinks happiness is zero-sum, even though it isn't.
• Aaaaand that's why. Well, that sucks. (And his last name is spelled 'Marlon', which I wasn't expecting.)
• So, their grand master plan was to imitate Vash because they heard the real Vash was around? Isn't that, like, the opposite of the logical thing to do? No wonder I didn't get what they were going to do.
• So why the hell does Millie carry that giant gun around, again?
• "Except...that the situation is not equal." I, uh, I get why they had him say that, but it didn't make any sense.
• When someone grabs your gun, squeeze the trigger finger! This isn't complicated, Random Mook #5! Boot knife was pretty cool, though.
• Okay, okay, standoff with no gun, this makes a point to Frank, yada yada...
• Oh, NOW she gets out the gun? Criminy.
• They just let the robbers run off? Uh, okay. Well, maybe they'll die of thirst in the desert, like Millie and Meryl were going to. Hey, if the nearest town is 4,000 yars away, how did Vash and Meryl and Millie get there? How long has it been since the last episode?
• More waffling. But I bet the silly-sounding goal was genuine.
• "The past enslaves." Clearly a hint about Vash, too.

Well, I cared more about Frank than I did about any of the other characters up to now. I can't help feeling this story was told better in Rurouni Kenshin, though. My Internet's about to cut off for the night, but I'll have more comments tomorrow.

Oh, my Internet's not cutting out after all, so let's chat. First, I should have gotten the plot much sooner from the name of the episode. That's a classic term. I can appreciate how Nightow is distilling plots down to their bare essence. This is Frank's story, and I like Frank. He did good, was disillusioned by ironic tragedy, and needed the events of the episode to rekindle his faith in life. Vash needs to get involved because his name's involved (otherwise the townspeople would just shoot the robbers), and he wants to get involved as part of throwing off the shadow of his own past--and he gets a fixed gun out of the deal (not that he's been shooting it much). Clean, straightforward.

And that's really all there is in the episode. The villains were one-off idiots with no style. Meryl and Millie continue to have no purpose except waffling about Vash. The setting still doesn't have anything going for it. Rurouni Kenshin really is a good comparison--notorious badass with a past and a goofy personality goes about doing good in order to atone. But RK's world is far richer and the supporting characters actually support the narrative, even before we get to villains who are as cool as the hero (the first couple RK villains are boring). There's a sense of depth that Trigun is simply missing. Or we can take Cowboy Bebop, which I've only watched part of, and which has the same episodic pacing as Trigun to start--but Jet beats hell out of M&M, and space Western beats hell out of plain old Western, and I liked Spike without needing to worry about his mysterious past, whereas Vash is pretty boring without the lure of finding out why a notorious badass acts like such a clown.

Hm. Trigun was originally a manga, like RK. I opened the first page of the first chapter of the manga and got what I assume was a pretty large spoiler directly in the face. Serves me right. But yeah, when I'm done with the anime I'm definitely going back through the manga to see how they compare.

Rating: cheese pizza at a kid's birthday party.

[Sean Mirrsen]

[*]When someone grabs your gun, squeeze the trigger finger! This isn't complicated, Random Mook #5! Boot knife was pretty cool, though.

This one took me a little while to understand, but you might notice how he grabs the gun. Not by the barrel or by the shooter's hand, but across the body. The gun's a revolver. He grabs the revolver drum and keeps it from turning so the gun can't shoot.

[Math_Mage]

This one took me a little while to understand, but you might notice how he grabs the gun. Not by the barrel or by the shooter's hand, but across the body. The gun's a revolver. He grabs the revolver drum and keeps it from turning so the gun can't shoot.

Oh. Got me there.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Oh. Got me there.

These early episodes subtly build up the notion that Vash is really the sort of unstoppable super-gunman that he's rumored to be, through these little hard-to-spot displays of skill. It's really well executed in this regard, and the attention to the minute details that give it away makes these early episodes quite interesting to watch for me.

[Math_Mage]

I agree that keeping the skill subtle is a nice touch. I just feel the way I did during season 1 of RWBY--I know the show has interesting stuff to show me, but it can't get out of hint-dropping mode, and the plots it's using as a screen for its hints don't hold up.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Using the early episodes to set up the status quo is legitimate storytelling. But to me, this is a rather flat job of it so far. Mostly it's two things: a boring setting, and sidekicks that don't do anything or have any goals apart from watching the main character do his thing.

(Side note: why do all the girls' names start with M?)

New episode up sometime today/night.

Sorry for being late on this, seven days in a row of work is rough on the posting habits.

The Sidekicks have the goal of finding Vash the Stampede, so that they can prevent the disasters that he causes when he fights because the insurance company they work for was going broke from paying out insurance. Meryl just does not actually buy that Vash is actually Vash. Which is somewhat understandable considering the reputation Vash supposedly has vs the personality this goofball shows.

[LaZodiac]

Yars are a measure of distance, yeah. The other measure of distance is Iles. I tend to just assume Yards and Miles.

What was the spoiler that looking at the first page of the manga gave? Because I should ALSO note, the first couple of episodes of the anime are not manga canon, while the first episode of the series that gets really "srs bissness" is the first chapter of the manga, and they follow each other for a bit before the anime catches up and goes off the rails (but in a way that is still on the correct plot pathline, unlike Full Metal Alchemist where suddenly alchemy is caused by World War 2 fighting in our world).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

What was the spoiler that looking at the first page of the manga gave?

Spoiler: The spoiler

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The manga opens with a flash-forward to the destruction of July, and calls it out as such. It doesn't explain how it was destroyed, just that Vash was involved.

So yeah. It does give future plot events, but it's deliberately told in a style of "you have no idea what's going on here, but we'll get back to this".

[Math_Mage]

Sorry for being late on this, seven days in a row of work is rough on the posting habits.

The Sidekicks have the goal of finding Vash the Stampede, so that they can prevent the disasters that he causes when he fights because the insurance company they work for was going broke from paying out insurance. Meryl just does not actually buy that Vash is actually Vash. Which is somewhat understandable considering the reputation Vash supposedly has vs the personality this goofball shows.

Well, that's what I mean. Their goal is, so far as I can tell, to watch Vash. Maybe once they resolve the waffling they'll be roped into preventing all the harm that's done in his name, and then they'll get characters and stories and motives and depth, but right now it's just dragging.

It does help to know that this is mostly anime-original material. That means I do have changes to look forward to.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Well, for the moment, they're just insurance agents in charge of cataloging Vash for insurance purposes. They are literally agents of the bureaucracy. But they will definitely step up in the future and do stuff.

[Math_Mage]

Episode 4:
Love and Peace

• That catch halfway through the opening throws me every time.
• I should have commented on this before, but the constant anachronisms are a clue to post-apocalypse. I guess that spices up the setting some, contrary to my earlier downer attitude.
• That graveyard...wait, is he chewing gum?!
• Man, they take their poker seriously.
• The Earl is pretty skinny for a fattened former thug.
• Aaaand our agent is in. With the gum.
• Grumble grumble mumble at least this time M&M have a good excuse for not doing anything...
• Oh, come ON. When I said "with the gum," I didn't mean it like that.
• Sheriff's the bad guy, fine. Our lead robber's going to be all noble-like and probably get shot for his trouble.
• The womanizing stuff doesn't just get on the other characters' nerves...
• How does the news about Vash track him so closely if no one realizes he's Vash?
• "I'll go." Man, that guy knows he's gonna die.
• The second guy, on the other hand, is an idiot.
• Oh hey, cat!
• Awww, Vash almost got serious. Millie finally does something, and I'm annoyed about it.
• So, you aren't gonna run away--instead, you'll honorably take a hostage and demand a getaway car. Sure, bro.
• Yes, Vash, we know you have your own graveyards and troubled past and so on. Inb4 third option where sheriff does something villainous.
• *sigh* On the one hand, I'm grateful that M&M are finally competent. On the other hand, now I have to wonder why they didn't do anything before. Grumble mumble.
• "This world is made of love and peace!" Well, that came out of nowhere. 'Sides, Vash, you been paying attention to the world lately?

I want to get through these episode faster now so I can get to the good stuff.

We've been through "play two factions off of each other," "rich desert guy wants to monopolize the liquid in the ground," "weapon master sees weapons used for evil," and now "victims' kids struggle with revenge against villain-turned-citizen, with convenient punching-bag Starscream to resolve all ambiguity." We're running out of stock stories--pretty soon they'll have to move forward with the real narrative.

I'm less annoyed at M&M and the setting than I was. I'd rather have M&M break consistency with previous episodes than continue being useless characters, and that there's more to the setting is now obvious enough that I'm willing to wait on it.

I'm not sure I like stock morality Vash better than happy-go-lucky idiot Vash. But really, it's all just "We're not ready to tell you about Vash yet" Vash, so I don't know why I complain.

Rating: Windows loading icon.

[LaZodiac]

Good news next episode is the first manga based story and also the beginning of things getting Actually Serious. Plots starting, get on the hype train.

[Gettles]

Good news next episode is the first manga based story and also the beginning of things getting Actually Serious. Plots starting, get on the hype train.

I was looking at the episode list and good God does it take a while for things to get started.

Spoiler

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I mean it takes for episode 9 for Wolfwood to finally show up and Lagato and the Gung-Ho Guns(and by proxy the main plot) doesn't happen till episode 11

[Brother Oni]

I was looking at the episode list and good God does it take a while for things to get started.

Spoiler

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I mean it takes for episode 9 for Wolfwood to finally show up and Lagato and the Gung-Ho Guns(and by proxy the main plot) doesn't happen till episode 11

Spoiler: Trigun's moods, major spoilers

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Which is why the mood whiplash about that time is so effective. We've been setup to believe it's a fairly happy go lucky anime, although with slight hints of darkness and troubled past but not to the extremes that Trigun goes to.

Arguably if we weren't expecting Vash to be so ridiculously pacifistic, Legato's suicide would be a 'jumping the shark' moment - most reasonable people wouldn't have trouble sleeping after putting a round through Legato's head, but Vash isn't a reasonable person though.

[Waddacku]

Sorry for being late on this, seven days in a row of work is rough on the posting habits.

The Sidekicks have the goal of finding Vash the Stampede, so that they can prevent the disasters that he causes when he fights because the insurance company they work for was going broke from paying out insurance. Meryl just does not actually buy that Vash is actually Vash. Which is somewhat understandable considering the reputation Vash supposedly has vs the personality this goofball shows.

Apparently I'm misremembering when what is stated.

Spoiler: insurance

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Not quite, they're there to find out if Vash was involved, because the company classifies him as an act of God. If he caused something, they won't pay.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Not quite, they're there to find out if Vash was involved, because the company classifies him as an act of God. If he caused something, they won't pay.

That part comes later.

[Sean Mirrsen]

That part comes later.

Which makes it a spoiler, as well.

[DigoDragon]

Good news next episode is the first manga based story and also the beginning of things getting Actually Serious.

On subsequent viewings of this series, I tend to skip through the first four episodes quickly.

[Reverent-One]

"This world is made of love and peace!" Well, that came out of nowhere. 'Sides, Vash, you been paying attention to the world lately?

You think Vash is the sort to not be incredibly optimistic about the state of the world? To refer back to your comments on the first episode:

mutter mutter miraculous pacifist warrior cliche mutter mutter

I personally am largely alright with the first few episodes, the humor works out for me (I enjoy fake incompentent vash) and it establishes the characters well enough IMO. That's not to say it doesn't get better though, especially in regards to the fleshing out of the setting you've commented on.

[Fjolnir]

Spoiler: Point of Clarification

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July is Lost before the series starts, it's the 5th moon disaster that happens during the series; it's not a flash-forward, it's a flashback and it shows how he got his $$60,000,000,000 bounty