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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default [WIP/PEACH] A Retooled Knight [Styled After TG Oskar's Retooled Samurai]

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    I'll just admit it straight up: This class "borrows" (read: outright steals) from T.G. Oskar's Retooled Samurai. I absolutely love T.G.'s work, and after some thought I realized the ki class chassis would work rather well for the Knight class.

    I've always been sad that the Knight just wasn't really that effective. Admittedly, it's not as though most martial classes (pre-ToB at least) were any good, but the knight looked like it had so much potential.

    Besides, I've already found good homebrew fixes for those other classes.

    What follows is my humble attempt at cleaning up the Knight, in the style of one of my favorite homebrewers. I hope it doesn't disappoint. And of course, please PEACH in the comments below.

    A note: This current version still incorporates a couple houserules from my game. I'll explain them in the spoiler blocks, along with explanations of why I did what I did. Eventually I'll edit out my houserule bits, I just want to get this up quickly right now.




    “Knighthood lies above eternity; it doesn’t live off fame, but rather deeds.”
    - Dejan Stojanovic, The Sun Watches the Sun


    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Special
    1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Honor's Hand, Knight's Resolve, Path of Glory
    2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Fighting Challenge +1 (single target)
    3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Bulwark of Defense, Knight’s Loyalty (DR/-)
    4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Armor Mastery (Medium), Fighting Challenge (Multiple Targets)
    5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Bonus Feat, Fighting Challenge +2
    6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Path of Honor
    7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Mettle, Knight’s Loyalty (temp hp)
    8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Daunting Presence (single target), Fighting Challenge +3
    9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Armor Mastery (Heavy)
    10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Bonus Feat, Call to Battle (Conditions)
    11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Path of Heroes, Fighting Challenge +4, Knight’s Loyalty (Cha to saves)
    12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Daunting Presence (Multiple Targets)
    13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Inspiring Presence
    14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Fighting Challenge +5, Improved Mettle
    15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Bonus feat, Call to Battle (hit points), Knight’s Loyalty (freedom of movement)
    16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Path of Legends
    17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Fighting Challenge +6, Impetuous Endurance
    18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Stance of Denial
    19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Knight’s Loyalty (negate attack)
    20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Loyal Beyond Death, Bonus feat, Fighting Challenge +7

    Hit Die: d12
    Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str)
    Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. (x4 at first level)

    Spoiler
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    So anyway, why these skills? Well, mostly because TG's Samurai had them. Not much to it. Knowledge skills that a noble knight should know (engineering is abit more of a stretch, it's more of a legacy from Samurai. Nobility is because knights often were the nobility, and History for similar reasons. Social Skills (minus Bluff added back in because why not) to allow our Knight to hold his own in Courtly functions, Ride for mounted combat of course, Craft and Profession because everyone has those, and Perform because why not, Samurai has it, I didn't feel like removing it.

    Some people may balk at the d12 HD. I think it deserves it; after all this is meant to be a tanky class, no? Besides, it’s not much of an improvement over a d10 anyhow, so there’s hardly any need to worry.


    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the knight.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Knights are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all kinds of armor (heavy, medium and light), and with all shields (including tower shields).

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    No reason to deny them the tower shields, so there ya go. Not much else to say.


    Honor's Hand (Ex): At 1st level, a knight may use his Strength or Charisma modifier for her attack and damage rolls with any weapon he is proficient, whichever is the highest.

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    Samurai's Kiai except based on Charisma. Simple, effective.


    Knight's Resolve (Su): A true knight never falters in battle, and by drawing upon reserves of inner strength, a knight can find himself performing feats impossible to his fellow man. He has a special pool of resolve, which has a number resolve points equal to half his class level plus his Charisma bonus (if any). As long as the knight's resolve pool is not empty, he may use any of his supernatural abilities. These powers are described below.

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    A blatant rip-off of the ki mechanic, right here. I chose "resolve" as the name mostly on a whim, mostly because ki is too "Eastern" for such a Western concept of a class, and anything else I could think of reminded me too much of PF's Gunslinger and their Grit mechanic


    Path of Glory (Ex): Although knights learn the use of several fighting styles and know several methods of combat, more important is how they choose to utilize their ability. As such, there are several paths that knights may follow, each differing in strategy and methods.

    At first level, you may choose one of the following paths. Each path grants a set of benefits related to the weapons or tactics used:

    Slayer: Some knights dedicate themselves to ridding this world of wickedness, and the favored tool of such a quest is the blade, be it sword or axe. A knight following the Path of the Slayer gain Power Attack as a bonus feat at first level.

    Protector: It is not coincidence that many a young lass has has dreams of being saved from a terrible fate by a knight in shining armor, for the Knight-Protectors seek out those threats to the people and put themselves in harm's way to save them. To aid him thusly, a knight following this Path gains Shield and Pike Style (see below) as a bonus feat at first level.
    Spoiler: Shield and Pike Style
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    Benefit: You may use any two-handed polearm one handed as long as you hold any shield other than a buckler in the other hand. You're still considered to be wielding it two-handed for the purposes of damage rolls, Power Attack, and similar. Whenever you take the full defense action with a polearm in one hand and a shield in the other, you can still make attacks of opportunity, and you're automatically considered to be readied and set against charges, if your weapon is capable of being used as such.


    Cavalier: The shining knight, astride a white charger, rushes into battle, fighting for his lord and his land. The Path of the Cavalier is a path of war, of little use crawling through dungeons, where horses rarely fit. A knight who follows this Path gains Mounted Combat as a bonus feat at first level.

    Spoiler
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    Houserule note: Shield Focus is a homebrew feat in my games, and is part of the weapon fix I'm using. It's not really applicable to standard rules either, so I don't know what would make a good substitute here. Perhaps Shield Specialization? A tad weak though.
    So I’ve replaced the above with instead a different homebrew feat of mine, what is essentially a combination of the Shield and Pike style feat with the Phalanx Fighting feat, except without those pesky limitations on allowed weapons/shields (beyond “polearm” that is). Speaking of, for this feat, the list of polearms include: Lance, longspear, spear, glaive, guisarme, halberd, lance, and ranseur. Feel free to expand this list with non-Core options.
    EDIT: I do so love striking out text, don’t I? Anyway, took out the shield wall function of the feat, now it’s just Shield and Pike Style (A Retooled Dragon FeatTM). Hopefully this makes Protector not as powerful compared to the others so early on.

    So here we have a Combat Style-esque mechanic, once again shamelessly lifted from Samurai. I feel like there should be a 4th Path, but I can't for the life of me decide what it would be, although I could always go with archery I suppose (feels wrong to me for some reason though).

    As with Samurai, these will start out giving out simple bonus feats and give better abilities as they go higher.



    Fighting Challenge (Ex): At 2nd level, a knight may call out a foe to stand and fight by spending a point of resolve as a swift action. The chosen foe must make a Will save, DC 10 + 1/2 your knight level + your Charisma modifier (A creature with less than 3 Int gets a +4 to this save, while mindless creatures are immune). If they fail the save, they must attack the knight by any means available, be it blade, bow or spell. Any attacks made must include the knight as a target, but area of effect and multi-target effects can still target other creatures in addition to the knight, as usual.

    If the challenged foe passes the save, they are not compelled to attack, but the shame of ignoring such a blatant challenge hurts. Attacks made and spells cast against foes other than the knight take a -1 penalty to attack, as does any damage rolls made, and Concentration checks made to cast defensively. This penalty increase by 1 for each three levels of knight you possess, to maximum of -7 at level 20.

    In either case, the knight gains +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made against the challenged foe, and gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against mind-affecting and fear effects. These bonuses increase by 1 for every three knight levels you possess, to a maximum of +7 at level 20. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal 5 + your Charisma modifier.

    At 4th level, you can use this ability against all foes within 60 ft, instead of just one foe.

    Spoiler
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    The iconic ability, now powered by Resolve, so as to unify all abilities and get away from awkward language for later abilities.

    As you can see, it's more of a combination of the Fighting Challenge ability and the later Test of Mettle ability, with a larger range of affected foes. Even if they make the save, you still get a benefit, so instead of a "save or suck" it's more of a "save or suck even more".



    Bulwark of Defense (Ex): When you reach 3rd level, an opponent that begins its turn in your threatened area treats all the squares that you threaten as difficult terrain. Your strict vigilance and active defensive maneuvers force your opponents to move with care.

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    Legacy ability. Thus far entirely unchanged.


    Knight’s Loyalty (Ex or Su): Whatever path they may choose, the knight’s bonds, be they oaths, friendships or even the bonds of True Love, are unbreakable. They give the Knight the resolve to survive, a resolve which is stronger than any blade or claw.

    At 3rd level, the Knight gains DR/- equal to their Fighting Challenge bonus.

    By spending a point of resolve as an immediate action, the knight can increase their DR to twice the usual amount for 1 round. This ability is (Ex).

    At 7th level, by spending a point of resolve as a standard action, you gain Temporary HP equal to your knight level, which lasts for 1 minute. This ability is (Su).

    Furthermore, if your health drops below one half the maximum (rounded down), you gain 2 temporary points of resolve, which disappear when used or when your health increases above half the maximum.

    At 11th level, you may add your Charisma bonus to all saves.

    At 15th level, Whenever you are affected by a spell or other effect that impedes your movement, you may spend 1 point of resolve as a free action (even if it’s not your turn) to delay its effects for 1 round. You may continue to use this ability as long as you possess Resolve, delaying all effects of the impediment until you stop using this ability. This ability is (Su).

    At 19th level, you can shrug off even the mightiest of attacks. By spending 2 points of resolve as an immediate action, you can negate all effects of any one harmful attack or spell that would affect you. It does not affect you, nor does it affect any other targets it may have had, and neither does it affect any other squares in its area. This ability may only be used once per encounter.

    Spoiler
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    In order to add some much needed tank-iness, I present “Knight’s Loyalty”. It starts off simply, giving you some DR and a way to increase it, and a way to gain some Temp HP and gain resolve. Next, we buff the saves and do a Paladin impression with our very own Divine Grace type ability.

    Then, we kick it into high gear. Ignore movement impediments, such as webs, black tentacles, slow spells? Heck yes. But we’re not done yet: At 19th level, you have the ability to completely say “NO!” to any one effect. This is what Iron Heart Surge wishes it could be. For power’s sake, I’ve limited it to 1/encounter, for now at least.


    Armor Mastery (Ex): Starting at 4th level, you are able to wear your armor like a second skin and ignore the standard speed reduction for wearing medium armor. Starting at 9th level, you ignore the speed reduction imposed by heavy armor as well.

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    Again, legacy ability.


    Bonus Feat: At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, a knight gains a bonus feat. The knight may choose from the list of fighter bonus feats. A knight is considered as a fighter of his class level minus four for feats that have a fighter level prerequisite.

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    Everyone needs more bonus feats. Everyone. Funnily enough the knight already had some here, I just expanded the list to all fighter feats. Of course, that leaves out Animal Affinity (and possibly others, I forget, as I made some massive additions to the list of [fighter] feats in my game). Still, not like those feats were much good anyhow. In T.G. Oskar fashion, they gain an effective fighter level for feats, in case they want to pick up Weapon Specialization or something (or more importantly, for use with T.G.'s revise combat rules. But that's neither here nor there).


    Path of Honour (Ex): At 6th level, a knight's devotion to his chosen path grants him new power.
    Slayer: When using Power Attack, you may ignore a part of the penalty, up to your Charisma modifier. Further, when you successfully confirm a critical hit, your enemy must make a Fort Save (DC = 10 + ½ your Knight level + your Charisma modifier) or be stunned for 1 round.

    Protector: As an immediate action you can opt to absorb part of the damage dealt to an adjacent ally. Each time this ally takes damage before your next turn, you can take half this damage. This even absorbs damage from spells and other effects without attack rolls, but it only absorbs the damage, not any other effect the attack or spell had.

    Cavalier: You’ve grown so accustomed to fighting on horseback that you know how to guide the horse to do things it otherwise wouldn’t. When fighting on amount trained for battle, you do not need to make Ride checks to control them. Furthermore, you and your mount take no penalties for your mount squeezing into a smaller space, allowing a Medium rider (with a large mount) to fight in a 5x5 area, as well as indoors.

    Spoiler
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    The Path abilities continue to improve. The Protector ability is pretty much exactly Shield Ally, and later Path abilities will improve this. I'm still working on abilities to give the Slayer and Cavalier paths, so I'd appreciate suggestions for those.
    And there we go, abilities for other paths. Slayers now get a stun effect, although only on criticals. Cavaliers now get around one of the large issues plaguing mounted characters, namely small spaces. They also get better control over non-war-trained mounts, but that’s more of a fringe benefit.


    Mettle (Ex): At 7th level, whenever a Knight makes a successful Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that normally deals partial effect or half damage on a successful save, he instead does not suffer from the effect or takes no damage. A helpless knight does not gain the benefit of mettle.

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    Knights are tanky. Tanks should have Mettle. 'Nuff said.



    Daunting Presence (Ex): At 8th level, the presence of a knight on the field is impossible to ignore, and he strikes terror into the hearts of evildoers. As a swift action, a knight can spend a point of resolve, causing one within 60 ft to be struck with fear. The chosen foe must make a Will save, DC 10 + 1/2 your knight level + your Charisma modifier (A creature with less than 3 Int gets a +4 to this save, while mindless creatures are immune). Creatures with less HD than the knight are frightened for a number of rounds equal to 5 + your Charisma modifier, while creatures with the same or greater HD as the knight are shaken instead. A successful save reduces the fear effect by 1 stage (frightened to shaken, shaken to no fear). This ability is a mind-affecting fear effect.

    At 12th level, this ability affects every enemy within range.

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    Another legacy ability, another round of buffs. In addition to being affected by the changes to targeting as per Challenge, you get this ability earlier (at least vs one target, hitting multiple at the same level, though ultimately at shorter range). Further, you can impose greater fear effects to weaker enemies, and can now affect stronger enemies than you could before.

    I'm still uncertain whether I should make these scale based on the enemy's HD or go with CR as the PHB2 version did. On one hand, some creature types scale way too quickly with regards to HD/CR ratios. On the other, most of those creatures are mindless anyway, and besides CR is way too wonky for my tastes to use for anything.



    Call to Battle (Su): At 10th level, by spending a point of resolve as a swift action, you may grant any ally within 60 feet a new saving throw against an ongoing condition, spell, or other effect that originally allowed a save. They make a new save against the original DC; if they are successful they are freed from the condition as though they had save originally, although this may cause them to become afflicted with a new and/or lesser condition as part of a "Save for Partial" effect.

    At 15th level, you may spend a resolve point as a swift action in order heal all allies, including yourself, for an amount of HP equal to Xd6+ your knight level, where X is your fighting challenge bonus. This ability may be used as part of the same action as the above (in other words, it requires 1 swift action and 2 resolve to grant new saves and restore hit points simultaneously).

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    Comes in 2 levels later than the original ability, but in exchange it now affects any ongoing effect, not merely [Fear] effects. On top of that, it later gains the ability to restore HP to yourself and allies as well. Not a very large amount, but it's a swift action and doesn't compete for actions with condition removal either



    Path of Heroes (Ex or Su): At 11th level, the knight's Path abilities may be increased by spending resolve points.

    Slayer:

    Protector: Once per round you can absorb all the damage from a single attack directed against an adjacent ally. In addition, you continue to absorb half the damage from other physical attacks on an adjacent ally, if you so choose. You must decide whether to use this ability after the attacker determines that an attack has succeeded but before he rolls damage.

    By spending 1 resolve, you may choose to redirect any harmful spell targeting the protected ally to yourself, suffering all effects of the spell. You make all the relevant saves for the spell, as well. This use of this ability is (Su).

    Cavalier: By now, you and your mount have practically become one. Any mount you ride gains bonus HD, natural armor, and Str/Con as though you were a druid. Furthermore, you can attempt to attract advanced mounts as an animal companion, but your effective druid level takes penalties, as per the animal companion ability.
    By spending 1 resolve as a free action, you can cause any one attack targeting your mount to miss entirely. This ability may be used once per round, and is (Ex).

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    The Third tier of Path abilities. The Protector ability is basically Improved Shield Ally 4 levels earlier, plus you can spend Resolve to totally take the effect of any targeted spell as well.

    Once again, lacking ideas for the Slayer and Cavalier paths. Suggestions appreciated.

    Cavaliers now can get around one of the other biggest issues with mounted combat: namely, mounts dying under you. I feel like this may be too little, too late, though.


    Inspiring Presence (Ex or Su): A Knight on the field is a sight to behold, striking awe into the hearts of all around. A knight of 13th level grants allies within 60 feet a bonus on Will saves vs mind-affecting and fear effects, equal to his Fighting Challenge bonus. This ability is (Ex).

    By spending a point of resolve as a swift action, a Knight grants all allies within 60 ft a morale bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to his Fighting Challenge bonus. This ability lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. This ability is (Su).

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    A continuous aura providing half of a Bard's Inspire Courage, and you can spend Resolve to get the other half too.

    I'll admit, compared to the Core, unoptimized Bard, this is a fair bit better than Inspire Courage, thanks to swift action activation and lack of a need to concentrate on it. Honestly, I don't have much of a rebuttal to that argument, other than to say that I use a homebrewed Bard that accomplishes this exactly, from level 1, which is what this is balanced against.



    Improved Mettle (Ex): At 14th level, a knight’s mettle ability improves. He still takes no effect on a successful Will or Fortitude save that has the “partial” or “half” descriptor, but henceforth he takes only the partial effect or half the damage on a failed save.

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    It's like Mettle, but even better! Again, not much to say here, T.G. likes to give this out to martials, I agree with him.


    Path of Legends (Su): At 16th level, a knight that devotes to his chosen path acquires abilities that defy explanation.

    Slayer:

    Protector: By spending 2 resolve points, you create an aura of 30 feet around which protects all allies within it. Any time an ally would affected by a harmful spell or attack, you may redirect it yourself. The original target suffers no ill effect and need roll no saves. You must choose whether to redirect the attack or spell before you know what it does.

    Cavalier: By spending 1 point of resolve, your mount gains the benefits of Fly, Water Breathing, Expeditious Retreat, and Freedom of Movement for 1 hour.

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    And again, lacking ideas for Slayer and Cavalier.

    Cavaliers now have the ability to grant their mounts a whole slew of buffs to allow their mount to go just about anywhere. I feel, once again, this may be too little, too late, however. Still, it’s something.

    Protectors gain the ability to project an aura that basically allows them to tank everything that affects their allies. If you have a Knight dedicated enough to protect you to the very end, you'll not be harmed until they go down. Which, of course, is likely to take quite a while.


    Impetuous Endurance (Ex): Starting at 17th level, your fighting spirit enables you to push your body beyond the normal limits of endurance. You no longer automatically fail a saving throw on a roll of 1. You might still fail the save if your result fails to equal or beat the DC.

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    Legacy ability. Honestly, I feel this could be placed earlier in the class. Will consider that.


    Stance of Denial (Su): At 18th level, a knight’s ability to react improves to inhuman levels. Any free or immediate action done by a creature in response of a knight’s action is delayed until the end of the knight's action.

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    Taken word for word from Samurai. Not much else to say, really.


    Loyal Beyond Death (Ex): At 20th level, if you are reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by an effect that otherwise leaves your body intact, you can expend one point of resolve to remain conscious and continue to act for 1 more round before dying. You can use this ability even if your hit point total is -10 or lower. If your body is somehow destroyed before your next action (such as by disintegrate), then you cannot act. You can continue to expend resolve points to survive from round to round until you run out of resolve points. If you receive healing that leaves you with more than -10 hit points, you survive (or fall unconscious, as appropriate to your new hit point total) when you stop using this ability. Otherwise, death overtakes you when you run out of resolve.

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    Legacy Ability, unchanged except to reference Resolve instead of uses of Challenge. I kinda want to replace this with something else, but I can't think of what to put in its place.
    Last edited by Mcdt2; 2014-08-27 at 02:45 PM. Reason: Nerfing Paths, cleaning up typos
    When in doubt, homebrew.
    If that doesn't work, use more homebrew.


    Need more homebrew? Try my Retooled Knight (WIP, PEACH)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [WIP/PEACH] A Retooled Knight [Styled After TG Oskar's Retooled Samurai]

    Ok, first of all, well done! Altough obviously a WIP, it seems to be going on a very good direction. It manages not to stand out from the core classes, wich is an aspect many homebrewers tend to ignore.
    I'll wait till you have finished the class to give it a proper PEACH, however, there are a few things that I'd like to point out:

    -Level 19 is so dead it hurts. Really, you got all other levels covered, and looking at your class table it really stands out as specially dead. Not really a problem, but still, it really stands out.

    -On the Protector path, how about you give the ability to use two handed spears and lances alongside shields? It would fit with the battlefield control abilities as well, as it allows you to have reach and good defense.

    -Again on the protector path, while these abilities are very handy, I feel like they may make the knight fall way too quickly. Perhaps he should acquire some form of damage mitigation? Either DR, Resistances or some form of Temporary Hitpoints (perhaps tied to resolve?).

    -I think that Bluff should be in the skill list, as a lie, by itself, isn't something unlawfull when used to help fool evil doers or protect people. Also, it'd allow you to have more swashbuckly-ish knight, perhaps? Just saying, not all that strange.

    Other than that, I'll wait till it is finished to give the proper PEACH.

    Brew on!

    -Dyhmas
    I have a tendency to babble...a lot. My posts'll probably be huge while not having much understandable information. Sorry about that.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [WIP/PEACH] A Retooled Knight [Styled After TG Oskar's Retooled Samurai]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyhmas View Post
    Ok, first of all, well done! Altough obviously a WIP, it seems to be going on a very good direction. It manages not to stand out from the core classes, wich is an aspect many homebrewers tend to ignore.
    I'll wait till you have finished the class to give it a proper PEACH, however, there are a few things that I'd like to point out:
    Thank you, although I don't know how much credit I can really take for some things, and I feel like maybe I'm leaning a bit too hard on the samurai fix I've based this on. I started this as more of a PF style archetype for it, but it sort of grew in the making.

    -Level 19 is so dead it hurts. Really, you got all other levels covered, and looking at your class table it really stands out as specially dead. Not really a problem, but still, it really stands out.
    Yeah, it really is. On my document for editing I've got several illegible scribblings to that effect, but I chose to leave inane things like that out of this post .

    -On the Protector path, how about you give the ability to use two handed spears and lances alongside shields? It would fit with the battlefield control abilities as well, as it allows you to have reach and good defense.
    That's a pretty good idea, although there's a reason I hadn't done so: I've already got a homebrew feat which does exactly that, and which has as a prerequisite the feat I gave them at level 1. Although, no reason not to put it there at level one, especially for its "public" release.

    -Again on the protector path, while these abilities are very handy, I feel like they may make the knight fall way too quickly. Perhaps he should acquire some form of damage mitigation? Either DR, Resistances or some form of Temporary Hitpoints (perhaps tied to resolve?).
    Good point, that would probably be a good thing to put to round out a few of the levels, probably help to fill that level 19 slot too... Gonna try to work out the numbers, I would hate to make them too absurdly tanky.

    -I think that Bluff should be in the skill list, as a lie, by itself, isn't something unlawfull when used to help fool evil doers or protect people. Also, it'd allow you to have more swashbuckly-ish knight, perhaps? Just saying, not all that strange.
    I don't feel it's so much "unlawful" (and, of note, I will NOT be adding any sort of Code of Conduct or even Alignment restriction to this class, incidentally) so much as it just felt like it didn't fit, exactly. Still, you given me an idea for a fourth Path, although I don't know what to call them ("Gentleman Thief" springs to mind, but I don't know that I like associating "thief" to any class. Might use "rogue" instead.)
    When in doubt, homebrew.
    If that doesn't work, use more homebrew.


    Need more homebrew? Try my Retooled Knight (WIP, PEACH)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [WIP/PEACH] A Retooled Knight [Styled After TG Oskar's Retooled Samurai]

    I've added in a potent series of abilities to improved tanking (lumped under the name "Knight's Loyalty).

    Further, I've gone and added in abilities for the Cavalier Path, and partially for the Slayer Path (levels 11 and 16 are still empty). Aside from that, though, I've cleaned out most of my bits of houserules (save for a new feat, presented as a bonus feat for the Protector path.) I've added Bluff back to the skills and borught them back in line with 3.5's rules, as well.

    Aside from the Slayer Path, and a potential 4th Path later on, I'm calling this tentatively complete.
    When in doubt, homebrew.
    If that doesn't work, use more homebrew.


    Need more homebrew? Try my Retooled Knight (WIP, PEACH)

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    Default Re: [WIP/PEACH] A Retooled Knight [Styled After TG Oskar's Retooled Samurai]

    Oh, btw, forgot to mention earlier, you don't say how the Knight goes about recovering Resolve Points. Just thought I'd point that out...
    I have a tendency to babble...a lot. My posts'll probably be huge while not having much understandable information. Sorry about that.

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    Default Re: [WIP/PEACH] A Retooled Knight [Styled After TG Oskar's Retooled Samurai]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dyhmas View Post
    Oh, btw, forgot to mention earlier, you don't say how the Knight goes about recovering Resolve Points. Just thought I'd point that out...
    ...Ooops. Yeah, those are supposed to be daily. Do not know how that ever got left out.
    When in doubt, homebrew.
    If that doesn't work, use more homebrew.


    Need more homebrew? Try my Retooled Knight (WIP, PEACH)

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    Default Re: [WIP/PEACH] A Retooled Knight [Styled After TG Oskar's Retooled Samurai]

    Ok, got a quick break at work so gonna do some PEACHing, since I like playing Knights, myself.

    Honor's Hand - Less MAD is cool, I guess, altho the Knight'll probably still need some Strength as to attend pre-requisites, like in the Power Attack feat. What worries me is that, with this, a Knight only ever needs Cha and Con...and that may be too SAD.

    Knight's Resolve - Ok, pool of points to fuel abilities is fine. Being able to only recover it on resting may not be so fine. I'd recon that, as this class is now, he could get another, more common, way to recover Resolve Points. Maybe something aligned with his Path of Glory?

    Path of Glory - Slayer and Cavalier are good, for a start. Protector is a tad too much, tho. I think that your feat gives too much stuff. I think the whole second paragraph should be removed, as there's already another feat that covers that (wich has the same name). Perhaps just give him both the feats you mention? Don't know, it may be just me, but I can't really imagine a knight fighting in a phalanx. Tl;Dr:Protector gives way more stuff.

    Fighting Challenge - First, why not Knightly Challenge? Second, why is it Supernatural? It smells like Ex, to me. Third, shouldn't it be a fear effect also, besides a mind effect? Not really mandatory, just get that sort of vibe from it. Lastly, at first I thought that the penalties were too much, but since the target is not actually compelled to do what you want, it evens out nicely, really.

    Bulwark of Defense - A knight that picked up Protector just got better. A Slayer or Cavalier a little less. Again, Protectors are gaining a bit much, in comparison to the others. Other than that, this ability is fine, if not mandatory for any tanking/battlefield controlling acitivities.

    Knight's Loyality - Ok, I like this a lot. Since he'll be the frontliner pretty much all the time, I suppose a DR capped at 7 isn't that much, even tho it makes the Barbarian a little envious. However, I think this ability should cost a Resolve Point to use and being able to double may be a bit much...tho that may be just me, I haven't really played enough high level frontliners to be sure. Notice also, that spending points in Temporary HP is better in all the ways than spending said points to improve your DR. Since these Temp HP apply to everything and there is nothing stopping you from replenishing them whenever you run out. However, I wouldn't spend a standard action on that, I'd rather try to down and enemy. The 19th level ability is cool, but it should only apply to you...you're giving the ability to negate a breath weapon that could potentially hit a dozen foes by spending only 2 points...don't know, I just can't see a character doing that without some powerfull magic, really. After all, this is like Dispel Magic and Element Immunity rolled into one...

    Armor Mastery - Good, if not mandatory, really.

    Path of Honour - Ok, Slayer suddenly has a silly jump in power. By that level, itens and spells can give your Knight a very high Cha mod. (other than the fact that every other stat is a dump stat for him), so he's suddenly getting +10 (since he'll probably be using a two handed weapon also) or more damage per hit. From one level. Perhaps you need to smooth out that a bit. Also, you might as well don't give the enemy a save to avoid the stun, since it equals the damage from a CRITICAL hit...heh, good look passing that. Protector, however, gets good, but not too good. Overall, a more smooth progression, wich i like a lot. Cavalier as well, gets better, but not too much, being able to bring your mount to a dungeon is very good.

    Mettle - Same as armor mastery.

    Daunting Presence - Again, smells EX to me, just saying. Pretty good, I guess, adds up to the class' versatility without breaking anything. However, this one is definetely a fear effect. I think you should mention that, since I can't imagine this working on Paladins or Undead.

    Call to Battle - I like it, both fluff and crunch-wise. Can't see any real problems, either. Altho that healing is not huge, it could really save your allies at times, specially since it doesn't compete with other abilities in terms of action economy.

    Path of Heroes - Remember when I said Slayer got a silly jump in power? if you dont give anything extra for that path at this level, it is still, at least, equally powerfull, if compared to the other paths. That says something, doesn't it? The other path abilities are pretty good also, altho it might be necessary to check the crunch for the Cavalier path, since being able to attract advanced mounts and give them those boosts could create a potentially overpowered mount. Someone with more knowledge of that area might be able to give more light on that matter, tho.

    Inspiring Presence - It's cool, altho I think the will bonus should require a expenditure of resolve points and the attack bonus should be removed, as the knight is already causing penalties on enemies, wich translate into bonuses for allies. Also, by then, you're laughing at the Bard, with his silly weak music buffs...

    Improved Mettle - Ditto mettle

    Path of Legends - This pretty much sold me into being a Protector, should I play this class. Nuff' said. Cavalier, however, shouldn't be able to get all that for a measly Resolve Point. Change AND into OR, at the end of the sentence, and we're good.

    Impetuous Endurance - I like it, tho Paladins are probably really envious of the Knight by now...

    Stance of Denial - While interesting, it messes somewhat with the action economy and could prove to be somewhat confusing, specially in cases of abilities used as free actions to improve attacks and such, specially so if your opponent is a caster or something like that, since any spell he quickens will only be casted later. Should he survive, of course.

    Loyal Beyond Death - I like it a lot, very flavorfull. However, a tad confusing, since say it uses Resolve Points and later on states that you can expend uses of your Knight's Challenge...I'll take it was a copying error.

    Anyway, hope this PEACH helps a little. I had to type it somewhat quick, since I'm at work, so I may have misunderstood something. Forgive me if I did.

    Brew on!

    -Dyhmas
    I have a tendency to babble...a lot. My posts'll probably be huge while not having much understandable information. Sorry about that.

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    Default Re: [WIP/PEACH] A Retooled Knight [Styled After TG Oskar's Retooled Samurai]

    I'm gonna go ahead and spoiler this, cause I tend to get wordy and there's a lot of things to address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyhmas View Post
    Honor's Hand - Less MAD is cool, I guess, altho the Knight'll probably still need some Strength as to attend pre-requisites, like in the Power Attack feat. What worries me is that, with this, a Knight only ever needs Cha and Con...and that may be too SAD.
    I may be somewhat biased towards higher power games. I feel I should mention this now, because if every single character class could be dependent purely on 2 Stats like that, I'd be pretty happy. Note, though, that a knight is still going to want a 13 Int, for tripping builds, and possibly higher for skill points (note I use the PF skill rules, so it's a bit easier for people to do skill-monkeying on the side).

    Knight's Resolve - Ok, pool of points to fuel abilities is fine. Being able to only recover it on resting may not be so fine. I'd recon that, as this class is now, he could get another, more common, way to recover Resolve Points. Maybe something aligned with his Path of Glory?
    Fair point. Admittedly, the class I based that portion on (T.G.'s Samurai, yes, but also his Monk and Ninja) work the same way (and for that matter, the orignal Knight had the same amount of uses for Knight's Challenge). To be fair, I think I may have given the knight far more reasons to spend it consistently though. Will definitely consider it.

    [quote]Path of Glory - Slayer and Cavalier are good, for a start. Protector is a tad too much, tho. I think that your feat gives too much stuff. I think the whole second paragraph should be removed, as there's already another feat that covers that (wich has the same name). Perhaps just give him both the feats you mention? Don't know, it may be just me, but I can't really imagine a knight fighting in a phalanx. Tl;Dr:Protector gives way more stuff. [quote]

    Yeah, I suppose that is true. Again, perhaps a product of my game's oddities- Power Attack also buffs tripping, Mounted combat gives other assorted bonuses- but even so, perhaps Phalanx Fighting is a tad much. Actually, Phalanx Fighting isn't overly unusual for my game's feats, if anything Pa and MC are rather narrower than most feats.

    Fighting Challenge - First, why not Knightly Challenge? Second, why is it Supernatural? It smells like Ex, to me. Third, shouldn't it be a fear effect also, besides a mind effect? Not really mandatory, just get that sort of vibe from it. Lastly, at first I thought that the penalties were too much, but since the target is not actually compelled to do what you want, it evens out nicely, really.
    The name comes from the fact that the first Knight's Challenge ability the class gives is called "Fighting Challenge", although I admittedly rolled that in with the later Test of Mettle ability as well. As for the (Su)... that was a misguided holdover from the Ki classes this is built off of, in which all abilities that require Ki to activate are Su. Doesn't work quite as well thematically for knight, though. To the trash with it!

    As for being a [fear] effect... eh. I didn't imagine this as something that evokes terror so much. Think of it as a taunt, or , well, a challenge to a duel. One might feel anger towards the knight and seek to harm them, or perhaps one merely feels they must defend their Honor. Besides, if it was [fear], Paladins would be immune (as would Barbarians in my games, but I digress).

    Bulwark of Defense - A knight that picked up Protector just got better. A Slayer or Cavalier a little less. Again, Protectors are gaining a bit much, in comparison to the others. Other than that, this ability is fine, if not mandatory for any tanking/battlefield controlling acitivities.
    True, Cavaliers don't gain much from this. On the other hand, slayers can make sure the enemy can't get away as easily, allowing them to continue to lay punishment on more resilient foes. Still, you're right, a Protector does benefit from this more than the others.

    Knight's Loyality - Ok, I like this a lot. Since he'll be the frontliner pretty much all the time, I suppose a DR capped at 7 isn't that much, even tho it makes the Barbarian a little envious. However, I think this ability should cost a Resolve Point to use and being able to double may be a bit much...tho that may be just me, I haven't really played enough high level frontliners to be sure. Notice also, that spending points in Temporary HP is better in all the ways than spending said points to improve your DR. Since these Temp HP apply to everything and there is nothing stopping you from replenishing them whenever you run out. However, I wouldn't spend a standard action on that, I'd rather try to down and enemy. The 19th level ability is cool, but it should only apply to you...you're giving the ability to negate a breath weapon that could potentially hit a dozen foes by spending only 2 points...don't know, I just can't see a character doing that without some powerfull magic, really. After all, this is like Dispel Magic and Element Immunity rolled into one...
    Honestly, I sort of forgot Barbarians even get DR, as it's so pathetically miniscule I've had players not even bother to write it down before. Speaking from experience here (had a campaign go from 1 to 30 where one of my players adamantly refused to do anything more supernatural than turn invisible for a few rounds, another decided to be a purely melee focused cleric, and a third went into Master of Many Forms, even though he was an archery focused Druid... Yeah, high level mundanes, even poorly built ones, don't care about such pitiful DR. Even the first players, whose main tactic was "Use about 20-30 attacks each round (4 arms+snap kick+Time Stands Still)" wasn't overly bothered by attacks with any amount of DR below 10 or so (unless they were also immune to Sneak Attacks, but I digress).

    I did note that the Temp HP was absurdly better than the DR, and most other forms of protection (vs HP dmg, that is). Which is precisely why I was wary of giving it away as a Swift action. However, it's possible I overdid it in that regard. Hmm.. Well, if nothing else, you can easily activate it before any fight which you know is coming, so at least there's that

    With regards to the level 19 ability, yeah, it's a tad absurd. If anything, though, maybe the issue is everything else is too sane in this class. I mean, for crying out loud, it's level 19. Casters have been gating in Solars for the past 2 levels now. There are literally GODS with less skill and prestige than you have at level 19. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but by this point I feel Logic should be thrown out and Rule of Cool put in its place. YMMV on that.

    Path of Honour - Ok, Slayer suddenly has a silly jump in power. By that level, itens and spells can give your Knight a very high Cha mod. (other than the fact that every other stat is a dump stat for him), so he's suddenly getting +10 (since he'll probably be using a two handed weapon also) or more damage per hit. From one level. Perhaps you need to smooth out that a bit. Also, you might as well don't give the enemy a save to avoid the stun, since it equals the damage from a CRITICAL hit...heh, good look passing that. Protector, however, gets good, but not too good. Overall, a more smooth progression, wich i like a lot. Cavalier as well, gets better, but not too much, being able to bring your mount to a dungeon is very good.
    ...Y'know, this is exactly why I really shouldn't 'brew early in the morning. For some reason I entirely forgot that critical hits actually increase the damage dealt. So yeah... That's getting changed. 10+1/2 level+Cha is probably better.

    Daunting Presence - Again, smells EX to me, just saying. Pretty good, I guess, adds up to the class' versatility without breaking anything. However, this one is definetely a fear effect. I think you should mention that, since I can't imagine this working on Paladins or Undead.
    As with Challenge, this is (Su) for stupid reasons and so I'm changing it. As for being a [fear] effect... is it not? It inflicts a fear condition, I'd say that qualifies it as a "fear attack", and the SRD says " All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects." Still, perhaps I should call it out in the text, just to make certain.

    Path of Heroes - Remember when I said Slayer got a silly jump in power? if you dont give anything extra for that path at this level, it is still, at least, equally powerfull, if compared to the other paths. That says something, doesn't it? The other path abilities are pretty good also, altho it might be necessary to check the crunch for the Cavalier path, since being able to attract advanced mounts and give them those boosts could create a potentially overpowered mount. Someone with more knowledge of that area might be able to give more light on that matter, tho.
    I'll admit, I'm not... super versed in the ins and outs of playing a mounted character. I've read some on the issue, but my hands on experience is really lacking. Much of my experience with mounts in game tend revolve around 2 issues "How will I get my Horse down there?" and "Why don't we just kill his mount and make half his build totally useless?". So they get a quasi-Animal Companion. The way I figure, if it's fair for that to be attached to a t1 caster, it's fair for it to be attached to the Knight.

    Inspiring Presence - It's cool, altho I think the will bonus should require a expenditure of resolve points and the attack bonus should be removed, as the knight is already causing penalties on enemies, wich translate into bonuses for allies. Also, by then, you're laughing at the Bard, with his silly weak music buffs...
    Well, again, a properly optimized bard beats this super easily too (can easily manage +15 atk/dmg in addition to +15d6 energy dmg, if not higher, as a swift action no less thanks to Song of the White Raven.) Besides those penalties from Challenge only apply if they attack someone besides the knight. The penalties are less to debuff and more to encourage them to attack you specifically, as many of the Crusader's stances and such do (see: Iron Guard's Glare, I think it was called).

    Path of Legends - This pretty much sold me into being a Protector, should I play this class. Nuff' said. Cavalier, however, shouldn't be able to get all that for a measly Resolve Point. Change AND into OR, at the end of the sentence, and we're good.
    Actually... If anything I was almost considering making those things not cost even a single point of Resolve, and just be continuous effects. I mean, Flight is basically already guaranteed to be on/part of the mount anyhow (it's suicidal for it not to be), Water Breathing is a niche benefit anyhow, Expeditious Retreat aids mobility in battle, sure, but most mounts are fast enough already, so it's most useful for out of combat travel or running away/chasing people. Freedom of Movement, to be fair, is very strong, but by that point what character doesn't have a ring of it anyway (and I wouldn't be shocked to have one of my players try to turn the ring into horseshoes some way or another).

    [quote]Impetuous Endurance - I like it, tho Paladins are probably really envious of the Knight by now...[/quote

    Wish I could take credit for it, sadly I just copy-pasted it from the original class.

    Stance of Denial - While interesting, it messes somewhat with the action economy and could prove to be somewhat confusing, specially in cases of abilities used as free actions to improve attacks and such, specially so if your opponent is a caster or something like that, since any spell he quickens will only be casted later. Should he survive, of course.
    Yeah, I mostly kept it in from Samuri because I couldn't think of anythin else to put there

    Loyal Beyond Death - I like it a lot, very flavorfull. However, a tad confusing, since say it uses Resolve Points and later on states that you can expend uses of your Knight's Challenge...I'll take it was a copying error.
    Yay, copy errors! Fixed.

    Anyway, hope this PEACH helps a little. I had to type it somewhat quick, since I'm at work, so I may have misunderstood something. Forgive me if I did.

    Brew on!

    -Dyhmas
    Many thanks, I really appreciate it. Hopefully I haven't misunderstood/misconstrued anything you are saying either, I'm typing this from work as well
    When in doubt, homebrew.
    If that doesn't work, use more homebrew.


    Need more homebrew? Try my Retooled Knight (WIP, PEACH)

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