Werewolf in the Forum [GAME ENDED]

[Haruki-kun]

It was an excellent game, everyone played spectacularly, great job!

Okay, I suppose I should address this:

My thoughts on the Pengi matter and how I thought it affected the game in spoilers if you want my opinion, otherwise, let's just congratulate everyone on a well played game and move on to the our next adventures.

Spoiler

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I completely agree that something had to be done with Penguinator when he applied for don't auto until Christmas but the fact was Haruki had granted the immunity so suddenly killing him was just a step too far. Like I said, give him the one day notice you'd give any other autolynch candidate and if he still auto lynches, fair is fair and I wouldn't have had any problems with it at all. Outright killing him can only be viewed as favouring the wolves though.

While the insta kill didn't have quite the effect as I originally thought since there was one less wolf, the psychological damage was still done. It gave the illusion in most our minds that we were suddenly tossed into the fire of a lynch or lose situation just as we thought we finally had a good chance of winning.

Before I saw the mesage of the insta kill, I was planning to PM the masons to spring the trap I had set for Sprig but I decided against it - I figured if I suddenly accused Legato which the masons both had down as town in what looked like lynch or lose, they'd instantly think that I was up to my old tricks as a wolf again. It's partly my fault in that I should have still at least noted my suspicions of Legato to them in case of my death but I wasn't exactly in the right frame of mind after I saw the message.

Spoiler

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Right, here's the real problem.

The problem is that on the night Penguinator was auto-lynched, there was only one wolf left. People thought there were two, but this would have effectively ended the game that very night. I assumed people would realize this the next morning, but there was a lingering feeling among the town that they were doomed.

That night, before I made the decision, a player asked if I would accept a PM from Penguinator as a night action if he was filed as away. I did not want to answer it at the time, but the answer to that is: No. I would not save a player from auto-lynch if they had time to come in and send a night kill. I wouldn't let a wolf stay THAT hidden. However, if I answered this question, I would effectively be confirming Penguinator as a villager, and I can't have that. One of my policies as a narrator is that no one should ever be a confirmed role by the narrator. Confirmed by deduction, sure. Confirmed by fellow masons, fine. But never confirmed by me.

I sent Penguinator a PM immediately asking him if he was coming back, then after the PM was sent, I saw the away note on WW Central. I couldn't just have a player taking up an empty slot, so I sent him another PM saying as much, and telling him to please vote the next day, as so many people say was the correct approach to the whole issue.

But then I realized... there was a problem with this. A night action WAS coming that night, and Penguinator was still not online. People would notice this and know that Penguinator was not a wolf. and if he decided to come back, I would have a confirmed villager. I hate to admit it, but I panicked. I needed to protect the game from breaking, and I thought the lesser of two evils was to auto-lynch Penguinator right then and there to put an end to the problem. I also sent Penguinator a third PM explaining the situation and saying I was very sorry for it, but I had no choice.

Was I wrong? Maybe. But someone would have to take the hit for it, and it couldn't be the one remaining wolf. I also couldn't force Legato to just kill Penguinator, because then I would be screwing with HIS plans, which is a massive game changer at endgame, especially with two confirmed masons alive in the game.

If there had been an extra wolf, I probably wouldn't have done it, but I got the feeling well into the game that I understaffed the wolves. I worried about it, too.

I am very sorry if you feel I messed with the flow of the game, I did not want to. And it was my mistake for not checking central as well, as I did not realize just how long Penguinator was filing as away. But at that point in the game, I made the decision that I thought would let the game continue as correctly as possible.

That is my explanation on how I came to make the decision I make. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask and I will answer.

[Logic]

Interesting. I never had Legato high on my list of suspects, or Sprig for that matter.

Good thing you other villagers got me out quickly, otherwise I might have done even more damage.

[EmeraldRose]

I'm honestly surprised by the win. I figured we'd screwed things up pretty badly and the wolves would win for sure. Especially with all the roles out in the open...

But it was fun to play and I enjoyed the narrations.

[Sprig]

That's why i don't like being wolf. Too many people happy about this result! :p

[EmeraldRose]

I don't see how my one "ghost post" was something that was any different than anyone else's, except that I happened to be a mason who was posting and not a villager or wolf. No worries though.

I've been considering dropping back from playing again and the timing may be better to do so. It was...difficult finding the time and energy to deal with playing in the game.

[happyturtle]

I was shadowing the game from the beginning. I saw how much the ghosts were posting, and I told Haruki that if it were my game, I'd probably put a stop to it. He was more lenient, but someone's post had to be the last one allowed. As the game went on and there were fewer players and more ghosts, there was more of a risk that something would accidentally slip. No one thought any of the players would leak info deliberately.

Spoiler: About Penguinator

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Haruki discussed the situation with me, and I pretty much agreed with his assessment. Once the villagers asked that question, it forced his hand, though pretty much the 'I'm away till Christmas, don't auto me' post, when posted in mid-October, should have had him immediately auto'd in any game he's in, in my opinion. That's just really abusing the away notification exemption.

[Darkcomet]

Slii, for reference, there was really no need to knee-jerk vouch for me like that. Ask next time.

I did...about what I could be expected to do, being the fool. A foolish fool what outs devils.

Yaaay.

[Deathslayer7]

There was one slip up but I believe Internet Flea caught it first and told him to erase it. Then it was deleted before a lot of people saw it.

As for Peng, I agree with Happyturtle and Haruki. He should have been auto regardless of affilation when he posted that away notice.

[Internet Flea]

I don't see how my one "ghost post" was something that was any different than anyone else's, except that I happened to be a mason who was posting and not a villager or wolf.

It was different because it was addressing a question asked by a living player. That's always out of bounds unless the game specifically allows strategizing after death.

[Ionbound]

Well. I am rather satisfied that my day 1 death pretty much got two wolves killed in short order. All in all, even though I didn't participate a whole lot, it was a good game.

[Cuthalion]

Well. I am rather satisfied that my day 1 death pretty much got two wolves killed in short order. All in all, even though I didn't participate a whole lot, it was a good game.

And I apologize for pushing the lynch.

[Fleeing Coward]

It was an excellent game, everyone played spectacularly, great job!

Okay, I suppose I should address this:

Spoiler

Show

Right, here's the real problem.

The problem is that on the night Penguinator was auto-lynched, there was only one wolf left. People thought there were two, but this would have effectively ended the game that very night. I assumed people would realize this the next morning, but there was a lingering feeling among the town that they were doomed.

That night, before I made the decision, a player asked if I would accept a PM from Penguinator as a night action if he was filed as away. I did not want to answer it at the time, but the answer to that is: No. I would not save a player from auto-lynch if they had time to come in and send a night kill. I wouldn't let a wolf stay THAT hidden. However, if I answered this question, I would effectively be confirming Penguinator as a villager, and I can't have that. One of my policies as a narrator is that no one should ever be a confirmed role by the narrator. Confirmed by deduction, sure. Confirmed by fellow masons, fine. But never confirmed by me.

I sent Penguinator a PM immediately asking him if he was coming back, then after the PM was sent, I saw the away note on WW Central. I couldn't just have a player taking up an empty slot, so I sent him another PM saying as much, and telling him to please vote the next day, as so many people say was the correct approach to the whole issue.

But then I realized... there was a problem with this. A night action WAS coming that night, and Penguinator was still not online. People would notice this and know that Penguinator was not a wolf. and if he decided to come back, I would have a confirmed villager. I hate to admit it, but I panicked. I needed to protect the game from breaking, and I thought the lesser of two evils was to auto-lynch Penguinator right then and there to put an end to the problem. I also sent Penguinator a third PM explaining the situation and saying I was very sorry for it, but I had no choice.

Was I wrong? Maybe. But someone would have to take the hit for it, and it couldn't be the one remaining wolf. I also couldn't force Legato to just kill Penguinator, because then I would be screwing with HIS plans, which is a massive game changer at endgame, especially with two confirmed masons alive in the game.

If there had been an extra wolf, I probably wouldn't have done it, but I got the feeling well into the game that I understaffed the wolves. I worried about it, too.

I am very sorry if you feel I messed with the flow of the game, I did not want to. And it was my mistake for not checking central as well, as I did not realize just how long Penguinator was filing as away. But at that point in the game, I made the decision that I thought would let the game continue as correctly as possible.

That is my explanation on how I came to make the decision I make. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask and I will answer.

Spoiler

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Like I said before, my problem with this all comes down to timing and player choice. I completely agree with you that Pengi's immunity had to go once the question was asked and you found out about his don't auto post but there was no reason to immediately kill him.

There would have been 7 players left the next day and everyone but the wolves assumed there was 2 wolves left so I don't see how you'd be narrator confirming him as good by leaving him alive. Giving him the day leaves the choice entirely up to him. He could choose to not post and get autoed or he could choose to post in which case he becomes fair game since if he has time to post, he has time to send in night kills since neither takes that long.

Basically:
Agree that his immunity needed to go due to potential abuse.
Disagree with the instakill since it removed player choice when one more phase of Penguinator been alive wouldn't have affected the game balance in my opinion.

[Logic]

After reading the Wolf and Mason QT, I do have a question for the wolves (mostly Sprig). Why was I listed on the "Must-Kill" list? I didn't think I presented that much of a threat.

[Sprig]

I didn't like you! :P




No, no, no, Serious answer: My list were personal threat assessment based on a combination of contribution in game and my knowledge of playstyles from other games. If you made it to the kill list then i was scared of you. :)

I can't recall what was the specific detail that led to you making that list. :( - Early on, you might not tell, but both Legato and I were rather inactive and as a team not nearly as coordinated as i would have liked.

[BourgeoisJerry]

Hmm... it's probably safe for me to explain some of my behavior in the mid-game at this point. It's not as if I'm likely to attempt the same ploy again.

In the early game I realized that I wasn't being very helpful in my analysis (it later turned out that I had pegged a wolf on the first day, but I didn't trust my instincts enough to go after Legato when nobody else seemed to find the evidence compelling,) so after Internet Flea outed himself I decided to try to get the wolves to waste a night kill on me by pretending to be a mason. I focused on going after players on Internet Flea's suspect list, often with no explanation given, and at one point I made vague allusions to private messages. Unfortunately, I seem to have done a better job of denying that I was a mason than I had intended to.

After I very visibly failed to even attempt to save EmeraldRose, I gave up on the fake mason plot and just went back to my typical play style.

[Penguinator]

Sorry to screw this game up so much.

Really, though, if I had been a wolf, I probably would have attempted to pay attention. >_<

Long story short, I student teach this semester. You can imagine why that would cause a disappearance.

[Slii Arhem]

Slii, for reference, there was really no need to knee-jerk vouch for me like that. Ask next time.

I did...about what I could be expected to do, being the fool. A foolish fool what outs devils.

Yaaay.

For reference, I was trying to attract attention to myself because my whole game plan for the last half of this game was to sneak in a nightkill before endgame. Since no one on team Town was remotely interested in bringing me into a network despite only FC at the end saying I was suspicious of being wolfy, only after you died, and before then I had everyone including the wolves saying I was lily white, I figured my best chance to help Town as a new player was to draw aggro away from the actual network. By the time I accomplished it, it was too late at best, but even so I was trying. I'm aware that my instincts on actual lynches were bad most of the time, and I didn't really learn much except for what to watch for from particular players, so I was trying for the whole self-sacrifice gambit.

In the end, I was just a fairly unremarkable presence the whole game. It was an experience, but I was kind of glad to be nightkilled so I could watch the rest without stress.