Picturing strength?

[dascarletm]

Yeah, though I guess now

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he's got the necropolitan template.

Dang it! Why do i compulsively click all spoilers.

[Spindrift]

If people start playing superpowered twigs and expecting to get roleplaying advantages from cosmetic choices, then let them know that they should also expect to be tricked by powerhouse grannies.

Alternately just let everyone sense strength levels like they sense powerlevels in dragonball Z

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, though I guess now

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he's got the necropolitan template.

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I'd say some other kind of undead, given that not having a head doesn't hinder him in the slightest.

[Fax Celestis]

Dang it! Why do i compulsively click all spoilers.

I dunno, I could be wrong anyway. It's not overtly stated.

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I'd say some other kind of undead, given that not having a head doesn't hinder him in the slightest.

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Maybe he's a necropolitan lumi now.

[jedipotter]

There's a skill for that. It's called Disguise, is Charisma-based, and is completely unaffected by your Strength score.

Sure, sure, sure....for the boring play-the-game-by-the-rulebook people. I know that is the answer for way too many gamers.

Steve Austin, who is huge, has lots of ranks in disguise and bluff, so he can convince a guard that he is ''Herman the tea guy'' if he rolls good(or is super optimized to ''never not make it). And this is great ''by the book and all''.

And if players did just play the game like good little book zombie-robots, this would not even be a question. Because appearance in D&D does not matter by the rules. You could describe your character as ''I giant taco that pops ice cream'' and everyone in the world must just act like that is normal.


Right up to the point when the player wants to abuse this loop hole. With the Harmonie Granger 18 strength character. They want the D&D world to treat them like the ''poor little weak girl who can't open a jar of pickles'' so they can get an advantage....and then ''surprise'' attack and do tons of damage or break out or whatever feat of strength they want to do.

[Morty]

Is people not realizing that a PC has 18 strength honestly such a big deal? It's not like you can tell any other attribute just by looking at someone, nor can you tell whether that wrinkled, bald old man is a 20th level Swordsage.

[Fax Celestis]

Sure, sure, sure....for the boring play-the-game-by-the-rulebook people. I know that is the answer for way too many gamers.

...what else would the rulebook be for, then, if not to tell you how to play?

[Flickerdart]

Sure, sure, sure....for the boring play-the-game-by-the-rulebook people. I know that is the answer for way too many gamers.

Steve Austin, who is huge, has lots of ranks in disguise and bluff, so he can convince a guard that he is ''Herman the tea guy'' if he rolls good(or is super optimized to ''never not make it). And this is great ''by the book and all''.

Why do you have a problem with a character who's good at lying being able to lie convincingly?

Right up to the point when the player wants to abuse this loop hole. With the Harmonie Granger 18 strength character. They want the D&D world to treat them like the ''poor little weak girl who can't open a jar of pickles'' so they can get an advantage....and then ''surprise'' attack and do tons of damage or break out or whatever feat of strength they want to do.

Wow yeah because it's totally never happened in any story ever told that someone conceals their strength to gain an advantage of surprise. D&D is so special in this regard.

[Svata]

Sure, sure, sure....for the boring play-the-game-by-the-rulebook people. I know that is the answer for way too many gamers.

Yeah, how dare you expect the rulebook to tell you the rules? What are you, mad?

And if players did just play the game like good little book zombie-robots, this would not even be a question.

Oh hai ad hominem.

[Spindrift]

If you're going to ignore the rulebook you may as well homebrew new rules for those situations, otherwise you're just stripping away rules and then saying there's an issue with the rules.
Disguise is there for a reason, does it perfectly mirror reality? ofc not, it's a game, not a real life simulator.

[Fax Celestis]

I keep getting the feeling that jedipotter would be much happier with Amber than D&D.

[Flickerdart]

I keep getting the feeling that jedipotter would be much happier with Amber than D&D.

Too much player agency.

[Spindrift]

I keep getting the feeling that jedipotter would be much happier with Amber than D&D.

Maybe he should just start posts asking people to help him write extra homebrew for his games. It might be more productive.(for him at least)

[Chronos]

Yeah, if someone who looks like Ahnuld wants to impersonate an accountant, they need to roll a Disguise skill check. If someone who looks like Sheldon Cooper wants to impersonate an accountant, they also need to roll a Disguise skill check.

And if you're talking about just trying to look less threatening, rather than trying to look like anyone in particular, then looking like Sheldon Cooper is likely to backfire, because people are likely to think you're a wizard instead, and so find you even more threatening.

[Morty]

I'd also like to point out that a level 10 character with 14 strength is going to hit you harder than a level 1 character with 18 strength, anyway - but you might not be able to tell them apart at first glance, unless they're decked out in obvious magic gear.

[Fax Celestis]

I'd also like to point out that a level 10 character with 14 strength is going to hit you harder than a level 1 character with 18 strength, anyway - but you might not be able to tell them apart at first glance, unless they're decked out in obvious magic gear.

Even then, they might just be rich!

[Vhaidara]

Sure, sure, sure....for the boring play-the-game-by-the-rulebook people. I know that is the answer for way too many gamers.

Steve Austin, who is huge, has lots of ranks in disguise and bluff, so he can convince a guard that he is ''Herman the tea guy'' if he rolls good(or is super optimized to ''never not make it). And this is great ''by the book and all''.

And if players did just play the game like good little book zombie-robots, this would not even be a question. Because appearance in D&D does not matter by the rules. You could describe your character as ''I giant taco that pops ice cream'' and everyone in the world must just act like that is normal.


Right up to the point when the player wants to abuse this loop hole. With the Harmonie Granger 18 strength character. They want the D&D world to treat them like the ''poor little weak girl who can't open a jar of pickles'' so they can get an advantage....and then ''surprise'' attack and do tons of damage or break out or whatever feat of strength they want to do.

And we were just starting to have a civil discussion.

1. If you have the Bluff skill to go with it, sure, you can pass yourself off as not being very strong.
2. Consider every other martial arts movie ever. How often is the martial artist underestimated because he's a scrawny Asian dude and the opponent is a brick wall?

[jedipotter]

Is people not realizing that a PC has 18 strength honestly such a big deal?

Well, you have two tied up trouble makers:

1.Hermonie Granger

2.Riddick

So who are you going to watch if you could only watch one.......your going to pick huge, giant Riddick. Riddick is a huge mountain of a man with great strength....you know he can break them ropes if he tries.

On the other hand, you know that Hermonie can't even open a jar of pickles. there is no way a young girl like her can perform any feat of strength. She could not break out of twine or even ribbons....


But everyone is going to go with ''a character can look like anything and have a strength of anything''?

Guess I'll have to add another house rule.....the higher the strength of your character, the bigger and more muscular your character is to the NPC's world.

[Threadnaught]

When I picture Vanda the barbarian I'm thinking more Gina Carano and not Megan Fox in a fur bikini. Or Darana the fighter as being more Jill Mills then Kate Upton.

I dunno, I have a very easy time believing Fox had received a club to the face.

She also has the body of an athlete, to me. Either Gymnast or Sprinter, booyah.

*snip*

Sure, sure, sure....for the boring play-the-game-by-the-rulebook people. I know that is the answer for way too many gamers.

this is great ''by the book and all''.

And if players did just play the game like good little book zombie-robots, this would not even be a question.

We get it, you hate games where you aren't in control of everything. That is to say, games with their own rules, or other players' involvement.

How is everyone else's refusal to introduce taxes to even out everyone's money, or seize properties of a player sent to jail, on a whim when playing the Banker in a game of Monopoly, or other similar scenarios... *breathes* Related to the strongest Human having a base Strength of 18 and being skilled enough to always succeed on a check, the same way most real world professionals also (almost) always succeed at their profession?


In the real world the strongest people can be slim like the most famous martial arts legend ever to have lived, to Arnie, to those fat-looking men who are in all the strongman contests. I say fat-looking, because they don't look particularly muscular to me, it kinda really does make them look fat to me... To me... To me.
Important phrase used a lot during this post. It means it's my opinion, I can't be wrong about my own thoughts and preferences.
So there's a lot of variance.

[jedipotter]

And we were just starting to have a civil discussion.

1. If you have the Bluff skill to go with it, sure, you can pass yourself off as not being very strong.

If Riddick, Thor or the Hulk was to sit down at a table with you and ask to ''open the pickle jar they can't open'', would you ever fall for that?

Even if Thor ''had a cloak on'', he would still he a tall, huge, broad shouldered man. He can't ''look like Loki'' no matter what his ranks in anything.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, you have two tied up trouble makers:

1.Hermonie Granger

2.Riddick

So who are you going to watch if you could only watch one.......your going to pick huge, giant Riddick. Riddick is a huge mountain of a man with great strength....you know he can break them ropes if he tries.

On the other hand, you know that Hermonie can't even open a jar of pickles. there is no way a young girl like her can perform any feat of strength. She could not break out of twine or even ribbons....


But everyone is going to go with ''a character can look like anything and have a strength of anything''?

Guess I'll have to add another house rule.....the higher the strength of your character, the bigger and more muscular your character is to the NPC's world.

Compare Arnold Schwarzenegger to Bruce Lee. Both are immensely powerful (Bruce Lee broke a bystander's arm when the man he punched staggered into him once, remember), but only one has muscles that make him look like a cloud.

[Spindrift]

Well, you have two tied up trouble makers:

1.Hermonie Granger

2.Riddick

So who are you going to watch if you could only watch one.......your going to pick huge, giant Riddick. Riddick is a huge mountain of a man with great strength....you know he can break them ropes if he tries.

On the other hand, you know that Hermonie can't even open a jar of pickles. there is no way a young girl like her can perform any feat of strength. She could not break out of twine or even ribbons....


But everyone is going to go with ''a character can look like anything and have a strength of anything''?

Guess I'll have to add another house rule.....the higher the strength of your character, the bigger and more muscular your character is to the NPC's world.

Hermione uses escape artist and sneak attacks you while you're watching riddick.
Or maybe hermione uses a psionic power, or any number of things, the game has plenty of variables and judging people by their looks isn't always going to work out the way you planned.

[Chronos]

Oh, and while your appearance is just fluff, so is your backstory, and the one can justify the other. Maybe you're the strongest person and the world but look like Summer Glau... but maybe it's because a long-distant ancestor was a powerful outsider, and the only relic left of that bloodline in you is that you're a lot stronger than you look. This is a fantasy world: Such things might not be outright common, but they're certainly not unheard-of.

[Vhaidara]

If Riddick, Thor or the Hulk was to sit down at a table with you and ask to ''open the pickle jar they can't open'', would you ever fall for that?

Well, that is a character who has decided that they look big. Bluff has these things called "circumstances" that give bonuses to the opposing Sense Motive check. Meanwhile, Bruce Lee sits down at the same table, wrapped in a cloak so you can't tell it's Bruce Lee or see his muscles, and says that he can't open it.

[Snowbluff]

If you have festering anger, you don't get bulky, right?

Strength doesn't have to come from build. Muscles are including, but like charisma it's not everything. Perhaps your character's str comes from celestial force?

[Threadnaught]

If Riddick, Thor or the Hulk was to sit down at a table with you and ask to ''open the pickle jar they can't open'', would you ever fall for that?

Riddick: "Open this jar please, I can't it's just too tight."
Thor: "Arr, this jar be too slippery and be hurting me arthritis. Please open it for me?"
Hulk: "Hulk not open puny jar. Hulk sick and bloated with giant disease. Hulk too weak to do more than walk. Puny human open jar for Hulk."

Even if Thor ''had a cloak on'', he would still he a tall, huge, broad shouldered man. He can't ''look like Loki'' no matter what his ranks in anything.

Loki has loads of Ranks in Disguise and Bluff. He can as a result, look and sound exactly like anyone else.

Maybe Thor learned the same stuff.

[Aegis013]

If Riddick, Thor or the Hulk was to sit down at a table with you and ask to ''open the pickle jar they can't open'', would you ever fall for that?

Playing with the Sovereign Glue again Hulk? Let me go get the Universal Solvent.
Maybe he's not lying.

Edit: And I don't think I would call out Hulk even if I thought he was lying.

[afroakuma]

Sure, sure, sure....for the boring play-the-game-by-the-rulebook people. I know that is the answer for way too many gamers.

But everyone is going to go with ''a character can look like anything and have a strength of anything''?

Guess I'll have to add another house rule.....the higher the strength of your character, the bigger and more muscular your character is to the NPC's world.

Really. You're really going to do this.

What answer were you hoping for, specifically? Was it 1) It's only sensible to demand characters look bulky and muscular if they have high Strength scores and not have massive muscles otherwise, or 2) It's only sensible to create rules relating your choice of appearance to NPC reactions and ability to react to you?

Those are both fatuous ideas. Appearance in real life, as it turns out, does not matter by real-life rules. I happen to know a girl who wears high heels to reach 5 ft. and might break 110 pounds soaking wet wearing welding gear who's a good deal stronger than grown men a lot more massive than her.

Know what is a factor? Things like seeing how people carry themselves, how they move and what they do. My karate sensei is tiny, but to anyone who knows what a trained athlete moves like she's obviously got a lot of background in it. Similarly, it's difficult for someone uncoordinated or sluggardly to carry themselves in a way that suggests a great deal of physical fitness, even if they're wearing football pads under a snazzy suit. If Strong Hermione and Weak Tyson are observed, it should be pretty easy to gauge them on relative fitness, even without having one to compare to the other.

Unless they deliberately act otherwise. Which would be some sort of... skill, I believe. Possibly Charisma-based. Shame I don't know of any. Mr. Flickerdart, do you know of any Charisma-based skills useful for acting in a fashion that might conceal or obscure some information about your nature to others?

You could describe your character as ''I giant taco that pops ice cream'' and everyone in the world must just act like that is normal.

That's right, I forgot, no such thing as a circumstance modifier in 3.5 so that a DM can reasonably assess a penalty for looking like dessert-excreting Mexican food. Curse those short-sighted developers.

Honestly, I have no idea why you keep starting these threads if the whole point is to just find people to disagree with and then insult them for not subscribing to your style of play.

[Amphetryon]

The man pictured is Louis Cyr. He was less than 6' tall, weighed roughly 310#, and counted among his feats of strength carrying 4,337 pounds on his back.

[Flickerdart]

Mr. Flickerdart, do you know of any Charisma-based skills useful for acting in a fashion that might conceal or obscure some information about your nature to others?

Why Mr. Afroakuma, what a coincidence that you should ask. I happen to have exactly such a thing stashed away here somewhere. It's a little bit of an obscure rulebook though, can't blame some folks for not knowin' about it. Unless of course these folks were playing D&D, because the book in question is the Player's Handbook. Why, Mr. Afroakuma, I can hardly fathom of an individual who would claim to be an aficionado of this here game and yet have such lack of familiarity with this manual!