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Thread: Picturing strength?
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2014-08-28, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: Picturing strength?
There's also not much strength involved in standing with someone on your back. The weight is mostly supported by your skeletal system, likewise with small steps.
There's no way you could squat 100 kg.
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2014-08-29, 08:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Denver.
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Re: Picturing strength?
I am having trouble following this thread. It appears that people are arguing that you are under no obligation to make the crunch / fluff aspects of your character match up. Is that about right?
Personally I like the two to work together rather than against each other. In a world with even a nod towards real world biology / physics Emma Watson is never going to be able to compete in an Olympic power lifting competition, it just isn't going to happen. If I really wanted to play Hermione the Barbarian I would at least come up with an explanation for it such as magical gifts, genetic alteration, some sort of mystic chi training, etc. rather than just stating "Its my character I do what I want!".Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
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2014-08-29, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
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- The Land of Cleves
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Re: Picturing strength?
In a world with even a nod to real physics, a 20-foot-tall person is going to be even less of a contender in powerlifting competitions, and yet, giants.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
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Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2014-08-29, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
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2014-08-29, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2014
Re: Picturing strength?
This came up a few campaigns ago for us. I had made a flying mounted archer. Due to load limitations on my mount , I could only weigh 90 lbs to keep my Mount at a light load with a little bit of gear. I wanted to be human, so rather than some sickly 90 lb male, I made it a female. Thing is she had a 16str and I got a hard time from people saying she was too light for that strength. But I ran with it anyway. She was just a lean beefy tough chick.
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2014-08-29, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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2014-08-29, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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- North Swansea
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2014-08-30, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- Texas
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Re: Picturing strength?
AFB right now, but wasn't there was some rule that combined STR+CON to tell you your actual "size" with respect to other people?
ad maiorem Dei gloriam !
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2014-08-30, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Denver.
- Gender
Re: Picturing strength?
A nod to and a perfect model of are not the same thing. Everyone knows that a little kid is going to be weaker than a grown man and a bear or a horse is going to be stronger than him, while an elephant will be stronger still. Bigger equal stronger is, for most people, just common sense.
Once you get some knowledge of biology and physics you will realize that it isn't always the case, but I would still consider it a good rule of thumb.Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
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2014-08-30, 03:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: Picturing strength?
Bodybuilders from 60's and 70's that do no look like they had an apparatus pumping them with muscle juice, some of them at least; Dave Draper, Bill Pearl & Larry Scott.
Anything beyond Arnold's era in general, tends to look like too much. Even Arnold's era has extremes but a few guys make it.
Bill Pearl would have an "18 Strength" heavy-set look for fantasy settings.
But even in the enhanced-athlete real world we live in, body weight-mass limits strength. You can't have someone that weighs 70 kg have 18 Strength score. The weight must be much higher, though not ridiculous. 18 would be around 100 to 120 kgs in body weight.
Olympic lifters, and other strength athletes, of the same decades and prior to them would fit the bill as well.
Corney Yes, Dorian, No.
Let's rip off an olympic lifting to make; Chart for Strength/Weight
Str Score/Body Weight for small to medium-sized humanoids
12/lowest is 56 Kg
13/lowest is 62 Kg
14/lowest is 77 Kg
15/lowest is 85 Kg
16/lowest is 94 Kg
17/lowest is 105 kg
18/lowest is 106 kg
18+/add 15 kgs to lowest bw limit
Frazetta's depiction of muscularity is the best i think. I would go by that.
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2014-08-30, 03:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2013
- Location
- Germany
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Re: Picturing strength?
Yes, and my player told me that calling the city guard requires me to do a DC 5 Diplomacy check. Not all rules are useful.
Still, mundane strength should be visible. I am not telling you to picture every character with Str 18 as Schwarzenegger's Conan. But at least SOME visibility should be there. But if you're talking about magical or otherworldly strength increases like templates, magical items or fantastical races then high strength shouldn't be totally visible.
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2014-08-30, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Picturing strength?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2014-08-30, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- GMT -5
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Re: Picturing strength?
I follow a general rule: better to ask and be told no than not to ask at all.
Shadeblight by KennyPyro
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2014-08-30, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Cydonia
Re: Picturing strength?
Bruce Lee himself said "a stronger muscle is a larger muscle". The world's strongest dudes are also some of the largest dudes. The guy that plays Gregor Clegane is 6'9" and weighs over 400lbs (according to google. Also, he's a good example of a guy with more than 18 str, and I'd say he qualifies for powerful build).
So, no, you will never find someone like emma watson who has a str of 11+. Han could maybe hide 14 str under his clothes.
I've known people who were surprisingly strong in some ways, but it wasnt meaningful enough to affect their str scores.
Now, constitution plays a role. Say you have two 15 str guys, where one has 10 con and the other has 14; I'd bet that the 14 con guy is heavier/larger. So, an elf with 10 str will probably weigh less than a human with 10 str, but your 17 str 90lb elf chick is unrealistic.
All said, I don't care if somebody comes to my table with a 17str 90lb elf chick (I might mention it or occasionally make fun of the fact); it's a game, and a fantasy one at that, where dragons can fly.
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2014-08-30, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Poland
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Re: Picturing strength?
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
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2014-08-30, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- NYC
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2014-08-30, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
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2014-08-30, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
Re: Picturing strength?
"when i was a baby, i ate a belt of giants strength +X... it got digested and absorbed into my body which is why i look like a wimp but am actually quite strong. its a part of my body now so its even active in anti-magic fields!"
or
"i underwent very speciallized training to maximize the strength of my muscles without sacrificing mobility. so now im as strong as an ox even though i dont look it!"
these are both examples of perfectly reasonable fluff reasons to look like hermione granger and be as strong as schwarzenegger. i dont see why people are against my playing this way. especially when its a corner stone of a character. "i look really weak so people pick on me all the time, sure im as strong as 10 men but i believe that with great strength comes a great duty to protect others and that i shouldnt use my strength for myself"
my position is: why punish creative thinking? this isnt a case of having your cake and eating it too. there are downsides to looking like a wimp and there are downsides to looking like the hulk.i apologize in advance for being wrong, im not quite there yet!
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2014-08-30, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Picturing strength?
Rock Climbers? They tend to be fairly skinny people, but they're capable of doing one-armed pullups under decidedly non-optimal conditions.
Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
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2014-08-30, 04:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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2014-08-30, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Calgary, AB
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Re: Picturing strength?
For your interest. Depending on the difficulty of the climb, climbers will sometimes be in a position where one hand/arm is the only point of contact and thus the only set of muscles doing any lifting.
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2014-08-30, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
- Location
- Denver.
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Re: Picturing strength?
Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
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2014-08-30, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Sovereign State of Denial
Re: Picturing strength?
You know, as much as I love it when a Jedipotter thread goes to hell, I thought I'd weigh in on this. Can you have a character with eighteen strength that looks like Sheldon Cooper? Yes. Because it is a reasonably well-conditioned actor playing a wimp. That argument on its own defeats itself.
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2014-08-30, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: Picturing strength?
I do more often than not tie Strength to the physique of my character, because if it doesn't make sense in my head I won't be very happy playing him/her. On the off-chance I ever want to play a 5'0'' 90lb female elf with 18 Str, I'd probably try to come up with SOME reason for her strength. Like going the "comic book hero" route, in that she was exposed to some strange radiation (read: magical energy) in the past that made her insanely strong for her appearance. Or bitten by a werebear (or some weird magical beast), cured just in time of lycanthropy and left with unnatural strength and sadly also hair in places elves shouldn't have hair. Or maybe her adventuring mom was stranded on some other plane while she was pregnant (like the early weeks, before she knew it) and it had some weird effects on her unborn child.
Anyway, you get the idea. I'd like to note that I'm madly in love with the Forgotten Realms (pre-spellplague) and in that setting there are probably dozens of other (and better) reasons why someone grows up to be a lot stronger than they look. As long as it makes a bit of sense I'd roll with itLast edited by Undee; 2014-08-30 at 05:10 PM.
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2014-08-30, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
Re: Picturing strength?
Pretty much.
My game example was Hermione Granger(Emma Watson) and Riddick (Vin Diesel) both get caught. They were both characters with strengths of 20 or so. Hermione's player, Sara, wanted to be treated with 'kid gloves' and to ''have things go easy for her'' as she looked like a near helpless tiny, tiny little girl and expected Riddick to be ''put under maximum security guard'' as he looks as if he was to flinch he could kill someone. The guards did not risk it and put the ''manacles of enfeeblement'' on BOTH of them. Sara said that they would not ''waste'' the manacles on her character, as even though she had a strength of 20, she looked like Hermione.
I was asking if anyone though it right that ''high strength'' had to also indicate ''strong physical build''. Everyone just jumped on ''a player can make there character look how ever they want!''
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2014-08-30, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: Picturing strength?
Last edited by ComaVision; 2014-08-30 at 05:49 PM.
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2014-08-30, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: Picturing strength?
And in that specific situation, the player is in the wrong, but its not for having her own appearance not be big and muscly. Its for trying to be the one who dictates how NPCs react to her. Her appearance is irrelevant.
Avatar by TinyMushroom.
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2014-08-30, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2013
Re: Picturing strength?
was this ever the situation? because thats not what i remember reading... i still say "no" to high str=beefcake, but the gaurds WOULD put the manacles on both because they WOULDNT risk it. in that situation it makes total sense to put the magic manacles on both characters.
i apologize in advance for being wrong, im not quite there yet!
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2014-08-30, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
Re: Picturing strength?
The arguement there then is that all prisoners are treated equally, and both prisoners would receive the effects, as they are both adventurers so they both get maximum security.
So really this houserule isnt required at all.
Oh and to add to the examples of strong small built characters https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhZDJdfUBMLast edited by gartius; 2014-08-30 at 05:52 PM.
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2014-08-30, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
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Re: Picturing strength?
If she wants her character to be a helpless tiny girl, despite her strength, and she had that as part of her character sheet, that seems like a fair maneuver. However, gotta say, if I found a massive beatstick and a tiny unassuming female adventuring together, and I only had one set of manacles, I'd probably put them on Hermoine. You may not recall this from the books, but Hermoine has frigging magic. Dangerous stuff, that.