Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 94
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Quote about fantasy?

    I suppose that this is best place for this question.

    I've been trying to remember that quote from Rich about fantasy literature. It's popped up a few times here. Something about it only being worthwhile for what it tells us about the real world....or something.

    My Google-fu is weak, and I can't find it.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Skyron, Andromeda
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    This is the quote you seek.
    How vampires work in OOTS.

    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Our resident banana keeps a well stocked thread with a large number of the Giant's comments. Conveniently the one(s) you are looking for are right at the top, under "recent additions"
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Much obliged.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    I see that quote often in a signature line, and I am really rubbed the wrong way by it every time. Like it really irks me.

    Maybe "petty escapism" is what some people might want or need after a day of hard work? There is nothing wrong with that. Not all fiction has to be a statement about reality; just entertainment can be valid too.

    I think it is a quote that makes more sense if you are person whose job involves fantasy stuff all day, rather than it being after-work in your spare time.

    Just my humble opinion. I probably wouldn't have as much feeling about it except for having read it so many times.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    zimmerwald1915's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lake Wobegon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcite View Post
    Maybe "petty escapism" is what some people might want or need after a day of hard work? There is nothing wrong with that. Not all fiction has to be a statement about reality; just entertainment can be valid too.
    Reality is outrageous. It can be comforting to leave it behind for a time. Unfortunately, after you've come back, reality will still be the same, and you will not have spent your time away equipping yourself to change it or even to feel outraged at it.
    Milk Chocolate Justiciar of the Haley Fanclub
    I hate a song that makes you think that you are not any good...Because you are too old or too young or too fat or too slim. Too ugly or too this or too that....I'm out to sing songs that will prove to you that this is your world...no matter what color, what size you are, how you are built, I am out to sing the songs that make you take pride in yourself and in your work.
    Human stick-figure Twilight Sparkle by me. Find more here.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Yes, but maybe i spent the time away feeling good, not worrying - sometimes you just need a time-out.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Reality is outrageous. It can be comforting to leave it behind for a time. Unfortunately, after you've come back, reality will still be the same, and you will not have spent your time away equipping yourself to change it or even to feel outraged at it.
    Perhaps not, but if you could never, for example, go home from work, don't you think that you would perform significantly worse at your job? I don't just mean go home at the end of the day, I mean eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, everything. Never leave your office building. Sometimes the best thing you can do to aid yourself in a task is to stop doing it for a while and rejuvenate yourself.

    Personally what rubs me the wrong way about that statement is the word petty. Rich literally just insulted everyone who reads for fun, including me. I doubt that was his intent if only because Rich usually tries to avoid insulting a demographic unless its based on deliberately provoking him in some way. But you know, if you go slinging around words like petty, you better be darn sure that's the word you want to use.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Ok, just looked up "petty" and i agree with you - at least out of the context the sentence lacks respect for the worth of taking a step back from everyday problems to gain new strength.

    In the context it was used you could say it was an antipole to "worthwhile" to underline what the Giant was trying to say.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    It's a pretty silly quote, yes.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    Ok, just looked up "petty" and i agree with you - at least out of the context the sentence lacks respect for the worth of taking a step back from everyday problems to gain new strength.

    In the context it was used you could say it was an antipole to "worthwhile" to underline what the Giant was trying to say.
    I don't think that makes it any less disrespectful. If its being used as a counterpoint to "worthwhile" that implies that it isn't worthwhile, ie a waste.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I don't think that makes it any less disrespectful. If its being used as a counterpoint to "worthwhile" that implies that it isn't worthwhile, ie a waste.
    That's why i said in context - the discussion was about the significance (? not sure if it's the right word, but i hope you understand what i try to say) a story may have.

    I'll try an analogy: if i evaluate food in regard to the energy it provides, fibers are worthless. So in a discussion on that topic a comment saying so would be appropriate. If the discussion was about a healthy diet, it would't be.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    That's why i said in context - the discussion was about the significance (? not sure if it's the right word, but i hope you understand what i try to say) a story may have.

    I'll try an analogy: if i evaluate food in regard to the energy it provides, fibers are worthless. So in a discussion on that topic a comment saying so would be appropriate. If the discussion was about a healthy diet, it would't be.
    And in that context its still disrespectful. As you mentioned, it is completely dismissive of the beneficial effects of taking a step back and not worrying about things for a little while, and when discussing the value of a story that is absolutely relevant to the discussion. Ironically, it would have made the point you're claiming it was trying to make better had it just left it as a neutral statement rather than making it derogatory.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    So you say if i want to read a story to broaden my mind, it is of no importance if the story i read does not provide any wisdom?

    Don't get me wrong, i also think thet the word "petty" was a poor choice, and in the form the quote is presented here in the forum it is questionable at least, but i think in the given context it was acceptable.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    So you say if i want to read a story to broaden my mind, it is of no importance if the story i read does not provide any wisdom?

    Don't get me wrong, i also think thet the word "petty" was a poor choice, and in the form the quote is presented here in the forum it is questionable at least, but i think in the given context it was acceptable.
    I think if you want to redo your roof, you shouldn't buy a saw to use as a hammer. I have no problems with the idea that stories can be used to give across a message, but im rather offended by the idea that that is the only worthwhile reason to read or write a story. If you want books filled with wisdom, a little investigating will usually turn up plenty of books to suit your tastes; no need for a blind trial and error method, so you cant even argue that "for fun" books impede those seeking wisdom.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Maybe i read it different from how you do. If the Giant's comment is about the value of literature in general, then i agree with you. I read it more as a comment about literature which wants to transport a message.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    Maybe i read it different from how you do. If the Giant's comment is about the value of literature in general, then i agree with you. I read it more as a comment about literature which wants to transport a message.
    Statements like "No fiction is meaningful" and "Fantasy literature is only" as a rule are very inclusive statements. Its difficult to read "No fiction meant to transport a message is meaningful..." when the actual sentence lacks the "meant to transport a message" part.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    I'm glad to finally read the context and qualifiers for that quote. As someone who was practically raised by fiction, "petty escapism" is a broad brush that could be (and was) read as dismissive.

    It's fairly easy to point at literature that was influencial during my formative years. Authors like Robert Heinlein use their writing more as a platform for commentary than simple story telling. It's more difficult to relate Tolkein to the real world. I still find it enriching, and not "petty".
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombulian View Post
    Cool idea. Cool name.

    I like this guy.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Statements like "No fiction is meaningful" and "Fantasy literature is only" as a rule are very inclusive statements. Its difficult to read "No fiction meant to transport a message is meaningful..." when the actual sentence lacks the "meant to transport a message" part.
    That's what i took from the context, as the discussion was about the messages the Giant wants to transport. At least that's what i get from it. But again, of course i could be misinterpreting it.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    That's what i took from the context, as the discussion was about the messages the Giant wants to transport. At least that's what i get from it. But again, of course i could be misinterpreting it.
    context cant really change the meaning of a statement. If someone says "all vegetables are gross" then context cant change that to mean anything other than what it says, even if theyre talking about green leafy vegetables up until that point.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    context cant really change the meaning of a statement. If someone says "all vegetables are gross" then context cant change that to mean anything other than what it says, even if theyre talking about green leafy vegetables up until that point.
    But if you take "meaningful" as "able to transport a message", the statement is correct. No fiction can transport a message (reasonably), if the message isn't valid outside the story.

    And then the other sentence (which gets quoted out of context...) is to be read in context to this.

    But of course, without a statement of the Giant setting this straight we won't know if he actually is against escapism.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    But if you take "meaningful" as "able to transport a message", the statement is correct. No fiction can transport a message (reasonably), if the message isn't valid outside the story.

    And then the other sentence (which gets quoted out of context...) is to be read in context to this.

    But of course, without a statement of the Giant setting this straight we won't know if he actually is against escapism.
    that requires you to ignore context actually. Specifically, the part where he established that he believes the point of all fiction is to transmit a meaningful message.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Aedilred's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Over the years I've seen Rich make a number of comments regarding fiction or literary principle or whatever. I've probably disagreed with the majority of it, and a subset of that has actively annoyed me. He does also have a habit of coming across as rather dismissive towards his own readers. I guess it goes to show that you can enjoy a creation independently of its creator's "private" opinions.

    In fact, I've long felt that fiction (in whatever medium) is probably improved if you don't get to see the man behind the curtain, and I don't think I'm alone in that. I'm aware that the modern world, with its social media, making-of documentaries longer than the actual feature, and so on, has torpedoed this idea and machine-gunned the survivors, but I still think it holds good in principle. Webcomics are particularly vulnerable, since by their nature there's no marketing, PR, or indeed editorial department to keep the creator on a leash, and it's very easy for a creator to blurt something out at any time.
    Avatar by Strawberries

    GITP Blood Bowl Manager Cup - Season V
    Red Sabres
    Season 1 Cup Champions; two-time Cup Semifinalists
    Anlec Razors
    League Wiki

    The Kingdom of the Carmine Sea in Morph Bark's EMPIRE! Community World-Building Game
    We now have a wiki!

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    that requires you to ignore context actually. Specifically, the part where he established that he believes the point of all fiction is to transmit a meaningful message.
    Actually i did not ignore that as i did not read it. But after multiple times reading the comments in that thread i agree that you could read it as that.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    Actually i did not ignore that as i did not read it. But after multiple times reading the comments in that thread i agree that you could read it as that.
    Im very confused now. You didn't actually read the entire post? But youre arguing based on context...

    excuse me while I go into the next room over to ponder how that even works.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Im very confused now. You didn't actually read the entire post? But youre arguing based on context...

    excuse me while I go into the next room over to ponder how that even works.
    Maybe i'm blind, but i didn't find the phrase "i believe the point of all fiction is to transmit a meaningful message" anywhere, so it must be implied in what he actually wrote. Implied content is always up to interpretation, and what i was saying is that i didnot interpret it like that. If he actually wrote that phrase, then i just did not see it and would be glad if you could point it out to me.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    context cant really change the meaning of a statement. If someone says "all vegetables are gross" then context cant change that to mean anything other than what it says, even if theyre talking about green leafy vegetables up until that point.
    Keltest said, "All vegetables are gross."

    Would reading that quote of yours in context change its meaning?

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    Maybe i'm blind, but i didn't find the phrase "i believe the point of all fiction is to transmit a meaningful message" anywhere, so it must be implied in what he actually wrote. Implied content is always up to interpretation, and what i was saying is that i didnot interpret it like that. If he actually wrote that phrase, then i just did not see it and would be glad if you could point it out to me.
    If you are going to dismiss any themes or subtext present in any fantasy story as simply not applying to our world because that world has dragons and ours doesn't, then you have largely missed the point of literature as a whole, and are likely rather poorer for it.
    emphasis mine.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Sorry, but that i read as "the appearance of totally fictional content does not remove the validity of transported messages", not as "all literature has to transport messages", but as i said, it's an implication and thus subject to interpretation.

    And by the way, statements can well be dependent on their context and have a very different meaning when used without that context.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quote about fantasy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unisus View Post
    Sorry, but that i read as "the appearance of totally fictional content does not remove the validity of transported messages", not as "all literature has to transport messages", but as i said, it's an implication and thus subject to interpretation.

    And by the way, statements can well be dependent on their context and have a very different meaning when used without that context.
    If you are choosing to read statements that are not there, that's your prerogative. Horse, water, drink, etc... But understand that just because you choose to interpret something a certain way does not mean that it lends itself to that interpretation.

    Whether or not you think that's what the Giant meant, you definitely understand how its what he said to a great many people, so my point is made.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)
    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •