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2014-08-31, 09:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Fl
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
I vote for how monks get "move fast" and abilities that only work when they are standing still.
Sure there are things that outright don't function or break the game in two, but this was the two main features of one of the most prominent classes in the game.
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2014-08-31, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
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2014-08-31, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
On the topic of sample characters, I was told once that for the original Tomb of Horrors, the sample characters literally couldn't damage Acererak. Also, the list of things that could injure him was stupid: a Shatter spell could, but you had no way of knowing whether you actually got that spell; some magic weapons could but those depended on your character class (I think a paladin could injure him with a +3 magic weapon, but a fighter needed a +5 magic weapon or something); I believe the cleric could use an ability to stun him for one round. Basically, that whole fight was a bit insane, and even though I've only ever played it through once, I still remember it being ridiculously complicated.
In fact, quite a lot of Basic probably seems stupid now. Each character only getting experience from the things they personally killed. Different classes needing different experience to climb levels. Gold being worth 1xp per gp. I'm sure it seemed great at the time, but looking back at it there's quite a few things that don't really make much sense.
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2014-08-31, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
- Location
- Red Dragon Territory
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2014-08-31, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
Not all of Mialee's artwork is terrible.
Spoiler: DMG Mialee
Spoiler: Gestalt Mialee
I mean, they're still bad, but at least they aren't as... Uninspired as most. I actually think the gestalt one is pretty cool!
EDIT: Forgot about what must be the best depiction of Mialee in any book:
Spoiler: Prismatic Bow
There was also another spell illustration where she struck a guy with lightning while chugging down a mug of ale. Can't for the life of me remember the name of the spell, though. That was funny as hell!
EDIT2: A couple more:
Spoiler: Mialee the Mercenary
Spoiler: Regroup
And for those who thought she was a good girl...
Spoiler: Mialee calling a NalfeshneeLast edited by Larkas; 2014-08-31 at 10:57 AM.
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2014-08-31, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2014
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
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2014-08-31, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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- Gainesville, GA
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
Yeah, that makes sense. If only there could had been an overhaul of the rules at some point during third edition where they did a major rewrite of several of the rules where they could have fixed that. Some sort of 3.5 edition, if you will.
Last edited by Svata; 2014-08-31 at 10:23 AM.
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2014-08-31, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- Southern Oregon
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
On that note... Stand-still full attacks are actually probably really high on my list.
They're a silly strong damage multiplier that turns every combatant at level 6 (or 8 for 3/4ths BAB) into a stationary turret if they want to do any sort of appreciable damage.
And it's just stuck as the default paradigm for martial classes forever. Yeah, ToB fixes it to a large degree... but then **** like Pathfinder clings to that terrible terrible mechanic as some sort of festering, fetid, moldering sacred cow.
Full Attacks are awful. At least with stuff like the Soulborn or Divine Mind or CPsi or whatever it's one isolated thing you can quarantine from the rest of the system, but full attacks are integral to the game. Deep seated and entirely inoperable.Last edited by squiggit; 2014-08-31 at 10:30 AM.
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2014-08-31, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
A good contender for stupidest release would be the art for the Divine Seeker class in the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting. I just cant figure out what is going on with those legs.
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2014-08-31, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
Fighters are weak, and gate overpowered yes.
But both existed in prior editions. Imagine the outcry if they released the phb w/o a fighter or iconic spells. It'd be 14 years later, and everyone would still be whining about not getting a fighter class at start.
Yeah, fighter is weak. He gets the 3.0/3.5 versiin of his 2ed abilities, but now it's not enough because of what they did for casters.
Stupidest ever? Spell plague, tgen retconning it for 5e.
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2014-08-31, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2014
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2014-08-31, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
Metal Perfection - a template for creatures born on Mirrodin.
True Ferocity - a simple fix for Orcs and Half-Orcs.
Monastic Magus - a spiritual successor to the Unarmed Swordsage.
Pathfinder-ish Synthesist - a simple fix making Synthesist Summoners follow polymorph rules.
Sword & Sorcery for Sneaky Scoundrels - rogue archetypes/fixes that aim to turn the rogue into a warrior/caster.
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2014-08-31, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
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2014-08-31, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Kitchener/Waterloo
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
jedipotter being always wrong aside, Tome of Battle is legitimately pretty high on the stupid list. For a book intended to fix martial characters choosing to use terrible art, a silly world-spanning organization as the primary fluff, and flowery naming conventions was a choice that seems guaranteed to drive people away, almost as if they intended the book to fail.
Add ToB's poor editing and the (already mentioned) problem with the errata (seriously, it's not so bad to accidentally release an errata document that's missing vital content...but then the first player to download it points that out, and you fix it by releasing the document you originally intended to publish. Doing anything else isn't just incompetence, it's intentional malice.) and you get a book that really is pretty emphatically stupid, even if the rules fit beautifully into the T3 sweet spot.Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
Trophy!
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2014-08-31, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
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- Curse word for the galaxy
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
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2014-08-31, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
I'm yet to play like this, but I've heard of a houserule that basically gave everyone unlimited Travel Devotion for free. It kind of nerfs casters that already use all of their Swift Actions and gave access to move+full attack for mundanes. So it's not entirely inoperable, at least if you're willing to houserule it.
What's that? I've never heard of spell plague...
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2014-08-31, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
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2014-08-31, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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2014-08-31, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexic
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
Shining Blade of Heironeous!.
MAGIC, n. An art of converting superstition into coin. There are other arts serving the same high purpose, but the discreet lexicographer does not name them.
Taken from The Devil's Dictionary
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2014-08-31, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
I vote the truenaming third of tome of magic. Pact magic is amazing, and shadow magic, while falling short, can be used/fixed, but truenaming...
I'M NOT CRAZY!!
I just find sanity a rather dull affair
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2014-08-31, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
I can't think of anything to top the ToB errata. I really, really can't. The Truenamer is less dumb than that. The Monk is less dumb than that (proficient or nonproficient with unarmed strikes). The Divine Mind is less dumb than that. How the hell do you NOT NOTICE that?! And then just say "eh, good enough"?!
I say second place might just have to go to the fluff sections of Drow of the Underdark (I admit, there's a lot of good crunch, but we're not talking about the crunch). It describes the most hilariously nonsustainable society ever, and then on the last page of the chapter, says something like "by this point you may be wondering how a society as murderous, unforgiving, and treacherous as drow society can exist at all. The short answer is, it can't. Drow society is completely unstable. The drow only continue to exist because Lolth wills it to be so." They have to spend half a page on what is basically a literal deus ex machina. They seriously have to pull in a god to fix all the problems, because it's too screwed up to actually work on its own. And then they said "yes, this is good; send it to the printers."
Can't come close to the ToB errata, but it deserves mention.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2014-08-31, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
See, the funny thing is, I actually really like Truenamers. I should note, however, that I play gestalt almost exclusively, so I might be a little biased. >_>
(Hence why I'm also fine with fighter and monk. They make fantastic carriers in a lot of cases.)
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2014-08-31, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters
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2014-08-31, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
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- The Great PNW
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
I'm actually okay with the names. The manga-/anime-esque naming conventions of Swordsage maneuvers are entirely appropriate, and the mundane ones that Warblade gets are actually fairly similar to the maneuvers from old fencing manuals.
I also like Iron Heart being invented by the hobgoblins; it gave me an idea of how to make them actually worth their LA.
The rest of the fluff is stupid, though. Especially the Warblade's.Author of The Auspician's Handbook and The Tempestarian's Handbook for Spheres of Power.Greenman by Bradakhan/Spring Greenman by Comissar/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper/Winter Greenman by gurgleflep
Ask me (or the other authors) anything.
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2014-08-31, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
My favorite stupid ToB fluff is the stuff about the ancient secret space pirate art of throwing broadswords at people.
Not sure if I love it or hate it.
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2014-08-31, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- The Great PNW
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
Author of The Auspician's Handbook and The Tempestarian's Handbook for Spheres of Power.Greenman by Bradakhan/Spring Greenman by Comissar/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper/Winter Greenman by gurgleflep
Ask me (or the other authors) anything.
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2014-08-31, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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2014-08-31, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2014
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Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between his shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style."
Originally Posted by Xefas
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2014-08-31, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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2014-08-31, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2014
Re: Stupidest thing Wizards of the Coast released?
Please use they/them/theirs when referring to me in the third person.
My Homebrew (PF, 3.5)
Awesome Bone Knight avatar by Chd.
Spoiler: Current Characters