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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Lots of summons info
    I'm not sure which way I'm leaning at the moment - I sort of want to expand the list of available summons available to the rituals, so as to allow the Martyr to pick whichever option is most useful and thus pick up some versatility that way. Given the duration of rituals, by the time Greater comes online, these are less summons and more temporary cohorts, so I might see if there's a sane way to do something like "All LG, NG, CG outsiders from CR 13 and under (and no templates, ever!)" in a way that won't allow for something gamebreaking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    It also finally occurs to me that the restriction to only one active copy of any ritual means that you in fact cannot summon a herd of bison or a flock of hippogriffs, which significantly reduces that utility, and makes the whole thing a lot weaker and less awesome (reminiscent of the Astral Construct nerf, except this was there from the beginning so it's not a nerf). Does the one at a time restriction also apply to special class rituals, such as the Planar Animist's summoning, or the Quietus's undead? (presumably yes to the first and no to the latter). Class based rituals often have multiple forms but it's not clear how distinct they are for purposes of maintenance. Since the Planar Animist has Planar Rituals, I could argue that each summon is it's own ritual, or each creature entry, or at the very least each available plane.
    A Planar Animist can have up to 5 cohorts, theoretically - each level grants a different ritual, unless the Animist is being a dope and keeps choosing the same one over and over. Likewise the Quietus can use his rituals repeatedly, although I believe a RAW reading right now would block that, which is something I'll need to make clear. Quietus seems to have a lot of exceptions to the base rules for some reason.

    And there never was an Astral Construct nerf - CPsi does not and never has existed :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Well I haven't actually read the Ritualist or Ritual Warrior's rituals yet, but yeah I prefer stuff I can just use rather than stuff I have to kill for. I can gladly justify executing or even sacrificing an enemy soldier, but making all my main features rely on doing so constantly is too far in moral and mechanical vulnerability. Not sure I'd actually want to play a Martyr since it's more reliant on effective party-mates and I never trust anyone to pull their weight, but I certainly prefer it in concept. Good use of summons or Immolator Apostate would help with that.

    There's also the problem where even one Ritualist/Warrior rather darkens the whole party's alignment and makes a Martyr quite out of place.
    The Ritual Warrior is the least problematic of the three, as he can theoretically power his rituals only via killing creatures in combat. Given that's what everyone else is doing, that's morally not too bad. The Ritualist, on the other hand, is definitely darker, given he has to forcibly sacrifice creatures for a large proportion of his rituals. There are ways around it, but they significantly limit his powers. For the Martyr, I always thought of it as an exalted base class, where he could cripple foes, but the actual killing was usually out of his hands - hence why a lot of his strongest abilities only apply against Evil monsters.

    The other Martyr PrCs, by the way, are Lifeweaver and Panegyric. Lifeweaver makes the Martyr into a walking set of ritual auras, as well as granting allies the ability to create their own rituals, should they want to. It's a way to get a lot of those personal range buffs onto friends. The Panegyric is more... unusual, and basically depends on being below half your total HP at all times. I suspect it's mostly unplayable, although the flavour is quite good. And it does have a capstone that makes me laugh every time I read it. Being able to bury an enemy in 80 spectres is one hell of a finisher.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarius View Post
    Likewise the Quietus can use his rituals repeatedly, although I believe a RAW reading right now would block that, which is something I'll need to make clear. Quietus seems to have a lot of exceptions to the base rules for some reason.
    Rather than a continuous ritual it's an instantaneous ritual that creates an undead which you permanently control. Dealing with free undead control tends to create exceptions.
    The other Martyr PrCs, by the way, are Lifeweaver and Panegyric. Lifeweaver makes the Martyr into a walking set of ritual auras, as well as granting allies the ability to create their own rituals, should they want to. It's a way to get a lot of those personal range buffs onto friends. The Panegyric is more... unusual, and basically depends on being below half your total HP at all times. I suspect it's mostly unplayable, although the flavour is quite good. And it does have a capstone that makes me laugh every time I read it. Being able to bury an enemy in 80 spectres is one hell of a finisher.
    Skimmed them before, read over again. Lifeweaver works fine, increase the cost to hit more targets, then just turn them all into auras for free instead (though I'd like it to specify what class allies who are granted rituals perform them as, no matter how obvious it would be to assume it's as Martyr). I'd also note that Scrying is a ridiculously short window to actually catch someone under attack unless a whole town is being massacred.

    Panegyric's dependancy on 1/2hp or less is fine considering you'll be close to that anyway without sky-high con and other bonuses, and you can plan other defenses that don't rely on hp. More problematic is that Inheritance of the Meek is worse than House of the Holy in every way, gained at a later level after losing more ritual ability sharing only one ritual with only people at 1/2hp or less, and note that for any other character 1/2hp should signal retreat instead of attack. And your first and probably best class feature is healing them so they shouldn't be at 1/2hp (except I keep forgetting it's every 5 rounds instead of at-will). Lifeforce Arisen is only useable if you for some reason have a bunch of NPCs without weapons who are also beat up, because worse than "have a weapon" as a class feature is "give someone else a weapon, for one fight" At lower levels, Sacrificial Boon requires you to damage yourself down to half before you create your rituals in order to get the benefit, which is backwards from the obvious expectation that you'll burn hp down to 1/2 by creating rituals (and then stop there) to run your class features. Walk Amongst the Dead retains Raise Dead penalties despite the short timer, I'll stick with my Revenance+Revivify scrolls. I've liked the whole summon the spirits of everyone they've killed and crush them idea the capstone is using for some time myself and it's quite massively overpowered against anything that's not immune, and I suppose that 1d6/d8 touches could add up on anyone else.

    You mention sharing those great personal-range buffs, but what personal range buffs (for Martyrs)? The only personal-only buff I see if Prayer Focus at 7th. Not that it matters since turning all your buffs into auras is already good enough for Martyr/Lifeweaver.

    Also: Precognitive Awareness says "one ally" instead of "one creature." Swirling Lives should have text for how "one condition" is resolved, re: do you pick one type and it cures everyone of the same, or do you remove one of your choice from each, or do they pick, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Another set of changes incoming.
    Spoiler: Changelog
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    Lifeweaver
    Succour - Now useable as a full round action.
    Leading the Ritual - Specifies as Martyr of character level

    Panegyric
    Panegyric Balance - Doubled bonuses, moved to level 1
    Sacrificial Boon - Applies when a ritual drops you below half, flipped targeting, moved to level 2
    Redirect Gift - Moved to level 2
    Undying Devotion - Moved to level 3
    Walk Amongst the Dead and the Dying - No penalties for being brought back, heals the dying much faster, moved to level 3
    Inheritance of the Meek - Automatically applies rituals to wounded allies, moved to level 4
    Lifeforce Arisen - Changed bonus from weapon to general bonus on all rolls

    Because of all the changes above, the Panegyric now needs some new class features. I'll try and get them sorted at some point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Skimmed them before, read over again. Lifeweaver works fine, increase the cost to hit more targets, then just turn them all into auras for free instead (though I'd like it to specify what class allies who are granted rituals perform them as, no matter how obvious it would be to assume it's as Martyr). I'd also note that Scrying is a ridiculously short window to actually catch someone under attack unless a whole town is being massacred.
    These should be sorted (see the changelog above).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Panegyric's dependancy on 1/2hp or less is fine considering you'll be close to that anyway without sky-high con and other bonuses, and you can plan other defenses that don't rely on hp. More problematic is that Inheritance of the Meek is worse than House of the Holy in every way, gained at a later level after losing more ritual ability sharing only one ritual with only people at 1/2hp or less, and note that for any other character 1/2hp should signal retreat instead of attack. And your first and probably best class feature is healing them so they shouldn't be at 1/2hp (except I keep forgetting it's every 5 rounds instead of at-will). Lifeforce Arisen is only useable if you for some reason have a bunch of NPCs without weapons who are also beat up, because worse than "have a weapon" as a class feature is "give someone else a weapon, for one fight" At lower levels, Sacrificial Boon requires you to damage yourself down to half before you create your rituals in order to get the benefit, which is backwards from the obvious expectation that you'll burn hp down to 1/2 by creating rituals (and then stop there) to run your class features. Walk Amongst the Dead retains Raise Dead penalties despite the short timer, I'll stick with my Revenance+Revivify scrolls. I've liked the whole summon the spirits of everyone they've killed and crush them idea the capstone is using for some time myself and it's quite massively overpowered against anything that's not immune, and I suppose that 1d6/d8 touches could add up on anyone else.
    Again, hopefully sorted (changelog) Aside from Revival, which I left as is for the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    You mention sharing those great personal-range buffs, but what personal range buffs (for Martyrs)? The only personal-only buff I see if Prayer Focus at 7th. Not that it matters since turning all your buffs into auras is already good enough for Martyr/Lifeweaver.
    Call Boon series, Divine Presence series, Entwined series, Flesh Forged, Forge Lifebond, Healer's series, etc. Basically any ritual that doesn't grant uses to attack is shared via Houses of the Holy. So as a Lifeweaver, it's best to target yourself with all of those rituals and let the class ability turn it into an aura, rather than casting it on a friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Also: Precognitive Awareness says "one ally" instead of "one creature." Swirling Lives should have text for how "one condition" is resolved, re: do you pick one type and it cures everyone of the same, or do you remove one of your choice from each, or do they pick, etc.
    Thanks for the catch, sorted.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Panegyric
    Added Balancing the Scales, Ritual Empowerment, Moment of Justice, and Expunge Corruption.

    That's the Panegyric class updated and finished, which means next on the list is fixing the Martyr's class abilities.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    And now for the big one, the Martyr
    Wash the Sins - Now a large AoE
    Cleansing Touch - Usable at will, not per day
    Reversing Strike - Can now cancel other rituals if desired
    Gift of Life - Upgraded to True Resurrection
    Hand of the Heavens - Cleaned up
    Touch of Friendship - Rewrote completely. Now gives morale bonuses
    Remove Temptation - Now an active ability
    Added Bonus Feats
    Added Goodness Abounds
    Added Sanctified One
    Added Resistance of Pain
    Added Mettle & Improved Mettle
    Added Holy Mantle
    Added Blessed Sacrifice

    On reviewing this class for the rebuild, damn did it have boring class abilities. That problem should now be sorted.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Spoiler: Martyr
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    -Touch of Friendship: dull but useful. Kindof annoying having something that never scales or upgrades, but in reality it's never bad and gives you a filler action if you need it.

    -Bonus Feats: also dull but useful, same intervals as Ritualist. I like having the Exalted option, though standard Exalted feats give little room for interesting combos. It's been a while since I read the ritual list but I don't think they've got all the effects you'd need to offset Vow of Poverty (could also be some good ritual user items too, haven't read those yet either). I get the feeling the Ritual feats were also all done before the Martyr, might want to go back and re-write some of them. Sacrificial Virtuoso may want a note for any alternate Martyr or PrC uses that retain their spellcraft check. Assuming that Slaying Strike sets the sacrificial HD equal to the target killed, as one would expect, this lets a Martyr sacrifice people, which may or may not be a good idea depending on how PrC-exclusive you want that to be (alignment arguments notwithstanding since everyone does it different).

    -Goodness Abounds/Calming Breeze: as far as I know there's no such default official ability as an aura, even if everyone gets what you mean (Marshal and Draconic auras have special restrictions). It's better to say, "All creatures/allies within 30' gain the benefits of the Protection From Evil spell." The distinction between creatures and allies is important since Creatures allows aggressive blocking of compulsion effects but also fouls allied compulsions until you can dismiss it on your turn, while Allies should disallow creatures that are hostile to you. I expect Calming Breeze is meant to work on foes much like the Apostle of Peace's main shtick, though it could again specify enemies to avoid hindering allies if you chose..

    -Wash the Sins: big enough to have a use even though I'd still never plan on it, but having lost the ability to dismiss their Rituals as a free action (previously under Touch of Friendship), you can't bust it out on purpose unless the emergency is that someone ended one of your rituals. Hmm, except since it's not listed as a ritual there isn't a HD cap to worry about, nevermind.

    -Resistance of Pain: SR is a thing. Due to the fact that it's as likely to foul allied buffs or heals in combat, many homebrewers include lines removing the double-edge. This could be especially bad for the Martyr as most (or all?) of their fancy supernatural healing effects don't work on themselves. I'd really not name it anything to do with pain, since that usually indicated a bonus on saving throws against effects described as pain.

    -Reversing Strike: I still don't like being stuck with the exact amount of damage dealt. Unlike being stuck with the HD of enemy monsters, damage can vary wildly to say the least. No need to say it's a free action when it's already triggered as a choice based on outside conditions, the free action line just makes it impossible to use since free actions can still only be used on your turn by default.

    -Sanctified One: needs more text. Doesn't specify a ritual level, so you can cast high level spells with CL1, and you can also go straight to 9th level spells (not that the top level sanctified spells are much worth casting). I assume you get one casting, probably activated as a supernatural standard action like most charged rituals, but none of this is stated. Certainly worth an extra bit of utility though, and come to think of it, replacing the normal sacrifice component with the Martyr's sacrifice component makes the top-tier spells actually usable.

    -Remove Temptation: "60 ft. standard action" is awkward, just move the 60' down to where you put "within range." Always good to specify rounding. I honestly don't see the need to give an item immunity when you're paying maximum hit points out of the day, allowing a save (fort even), and of course destroying your own loot. Even on spell component pouches it costs more than a Warlock's Baleful Utterance spam. I'd like it if you could take the sacrifice here and spend it on creating a ritual later (or even now), if you're effectively spending 2,000gp per SHD then some perks are in order (was that in the original version? I forget).
    -Returning Anguish: so boss, great to combine with all the other damage reducing/redirecting effects you can get, maybe a little Moment of Perfect Mind/+psionic focus. I'd change the wording to use split or redirect, or at least put the "Martyr takes half damage" in front so it flows better. Also needs to specify what it works on, since the ability starts out just talking about damage but ends assuming a "striking creature." There's another reference to free actions that actually renders the ability useless (the only reason I can see to include it would be to prevent them from using this/Reversing Strike when unaware/flat-footed anyway).

    -Hand of the Heavens: still pretty solid for non-Lifeweavers.

    -Gift of Life: you know, I've always wanted to make a guy who could revive people basically at-will, and this is in fact the closest thing to that. Exactly zero hoops to jump through compared to other builds. Get some Autohypnosis ranks and perfectly memorize the details of everyone who dies in proximity to your adventures, bring them all back to life in your spare time once you hit 18th. Kinda breaks the ever loving crap out of the idea that anyone important stays dead unless the PC is the first to ever reach that level, unless the explanation is that a massive wave of epic threats immediately target you once you get it.

    -Blessed Sacrifice: nice expensive all-in button, did you intend to have no limit on uses? I'd expect 1/day, seems to be a theme in variable resource pool classes having their capstone as a 1/day reload/reshuffle/limit break, not that I think it's the best method. Running around with only a single ritual is hardly the best idea, but this does let you just blast whatever ritual you want at maximum SHD every round.

    -Holy Mantle: see now, Starmantle is so much better than the usual DR 10/magic/alignment. Such synergy, Starmantle+Returning Anguish+Reflexive Retribution ritual. Fight magic weapon user in melee: subtract X from melee attack and throw it back, then pass a cheap reflex save to cut damage in half, then will save to split what's left with the attack. You take 1/4(damage-20) and they take 20+1/4. Well it sounds nice until they Power Attack your face off anyway.

    Martyr has definitely gotten stronger, looks pretty solid overall. Mostly just a couple of editing and style things, and the two-edged sword of SR. Might not be as strong as the PrCs, but that True Rez is gonna haunt anyone that PrCs out in a high level game.

    Spoiler: Panegyric
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    -Panegyric Balance: okay, that is some strong buff. +4 AC/+2 saves (noticed that feat requirement) and DR 8/adamantine will go a long way towards keeping you alive, although it's made the class into an amazing dip just for that.

    -Sacrificial Boon: this has gotten wiggy, highly dependant on what your max hp is. You can tank your hp down and get the effect on more rituals, but I'd expect most people to avoid the suicide plan and only let it crop up on their final ritual by a few hp (and since the effect is reduced, the suicide guy isn't getting much). It's a modest little extra buff slot you'll end up with. Pre-edit: oh, I see, it only triggers once anyway, k.

    -Redirect Gift: actually, this has a bit of a problem interacting with the Martyr now that I think about it. The Martyr/Panegyric will almost always have their hp burned down below half, but since it's burn a healing spell can't actually increase you past half your maximum hit points, so this will never trigger. Also note that cure and other touch range spells would just go to. . . touch range, probably back on the caster.

    -Undying Devotion: did this move to a lower level? Good to have early, though I'd still treat it as more of a "hey I don't die instantly like everyone else!" effect rather than trying to leverage the 20hp worth of room for more ritual burn.

    -Walk Amongst the Dead and Dying: the dying effect is still something I'd avoid using, but the raising is just fine now and the dying boost could have some use if the character's got a lot of max hp and is needed to finish the fight.

    -Inheritance of the Meek: yes, now this is a thing. There is a part of me that has that gut reaction of "the whole party gets everything constantly for free omg broken," but like I said, in any reasonably optimized game I feel that intentionally walking around with half hit points is asking for death (unless you're built for it). Sure the rest of the party will tank up or rage out, but they won't have your Panegyric AC or DR, anyone who's not a frontliner will have less hp, and unless you brought the right defenses they'll all be one good maximized boom from death. This could vary a lot depending on groups though. I'd really expect using it aggressively to put the whole party on edge for potentially huge gains, while using it defensively to bring tons of "yes so awesome best support char ever!" moments. The kind of exploitable thing that is exactly what it's meant to be. Oh, also: Lifeweaver's aura drops if he falls unconscious, does this still work if/when you drop?

    -Balancing the Scales: don't remember if that was there before, but it's a pretty huge buff. Half a tank's hp added to a caster is some serious toughness. Of course it runs completely counter to Inheritance of the Meek and shuts it down when activated, in the interesting style of conflicting class abilities. At this point the Panegyric has some serious overall party toughness to put out: give everyone (else) half a character's worth of temp hp, then heal the party (sans self) half a character's worth of hp, then have the defenses kick in whenever anyone drops below half (capable of roughly halving or negating various attack methods). Call it an extra three halves worth of defense per person per fight. Compare to a caster: can they put out three halves of an hp bar per target per fight? (Nothing that the enemy obviously has their own blocks of attack negation and mass damage/disable) Dunno if those are useful comparisons, I'm just making it up as I go. Probably better to compare it to healer build casters: max temporary 3 hp/HD with Initiate of Ilmater (required Cleric 7), and heal spam every round for smaller amounts and limited uses, smaller and weaker buffs but active on demand to cover those temporary hit points and make them last longer. I don't really know how well healer builds work in other people's games to be honest. I build a solid heal/buff filler character for when I ran Red Hand of Doom, seemed to work pretty well at holding them together. I think a Panegyric would be stronger than he was, but the lack of Clerical utility hurts. Captain Awesome was frustrating because of Imbued Healing spam (1 temp hp/HD after any heal), but the Panegyric at ECL 10 gives a much larger pile of hp. Not being limited to daily uses might have saved the party when they kept forgetting they were out of spells though.

    -Expunge Corruption: hmm, given the effect I'd call it "Corruption Turns Inward" or something myself. I feel the immunity piercing could be worded a bit better, but it's non-standard enough that it's easier to extrapolate the intent (though the question of spells and items might be raised). That said, wow that is aggressive. Good enough on it's own even without benefiting from the ritual beforehand, and you could just bomb a guy room with a single maxed ritual for negative levels equal to your own level, with no save or immunities. That is first resort boss killer material. Shadow Dragons are terrifying for their negative level breath weapons with save for half, and they max out at 8 for great wyrm. Needs some sort of limit on negative levels dealt. I do like it as a precursor to the Specte bomb capstone, and the delicious fun of dropping negative levels on people who expect to be dealing them out. Oh, and should specify an action.

    -Rise and Rise Again: still solid. I see you moved the next ritual wielder drop to next level but I think it's fine here, if not at at 6th for symmetry. I think there's a bit of tradition in synching dropped caster levels with the levels where you get free resurrections.

    -Moment of Justice: this might be going a bit far, or a bit early, but maybe not. With the extra death buffer you should be able to survive most one-shots from half, so this could trigger in multiple fights. On the other hand, it still shuts down Inheritance of the Meek and leaves you an inch from death, and having a trigger for when they figure out to target the support guy is pretty important (one could argue that weakness should be kept as a balancing factor, but I'd expect it to be even more frustrating for the DM not being able to target you without seeming like a jerk). And AoE damage can easily meet this amount, basically meaning you drop and everyone else lands back where they were.

    -Ritual Empowerment: since you don't have an Empower Ritual/Maximize Ritual feat, I think it'd be appropriate to spell out what happens here. I think you mean to increase variables as well as uses though I don't recall many Martyr Rituals with variables. Makes it feel like if you just whip up another ritual you'll have more ammo and stronger effects to stretch the goal, but you're gambling your survivability and should really retreat. This is the first ability that really does that, at a level where it's really not advisable but the stakes should also be high enough you might be willing to try it.

    -Lifeforce Arisen: changed to an everything bonus, okay. Presumably a standard action but not listed. Easy to compare to Expunge Corruption, both are 1/3 SHD converted, both are +X/-X to all rolls. Negative levels generally much better I'd say, since they hurt your foe's ability to deal damage via attack rolls or spells. This is best with party members that put out huge numbers of attacks since damage rolls are rolls (heck, spells have damage rolls), which does make this a fairly unique sort of bomb, but it's not the kind of thing you'd set up to go all in on like the negative levels. Goes good with really rapid shot, natural weapon builds, or Avalanche of Blades. Based on raw power this should probably be swapped with Expunge Corruption, but that destroys the foreshadowing effect and I wouldn't actually want to use this at a lower level. Or maybe I'm just tired.

    -Revival: did this name change? Part of me thinks it should be really ostentatious, like "Fury of Lost Souls," or "Vengence of all those who came Before," but a simple one-word name is probably better. Also ought to specify action, as well as range and placement for summons, and what kind of actions they take when. I believe the default is that creatures summoned as a standard action get to take a standard action immediately on the turn they're summoned, which is what makes this so lethal: surround every space of the creature in all three dimensions, make incorporeal touch attacks. They could also partial charge if needed.

    Panegyric looks like it went straight from neglected to DM's baby in one shot. Like any strong healer/buffer it's going to depend heavily on the DM and group, making the party invincible in some groups, and turning other games into a tactical scramble as the DM alternates between separating/cutting off/damage spiking/other and the players respond with their own madness, with the DM always having access to more toys. The two main offensive abilities seem crafted as an apology for all the DM hate, letting you basically crush many boss encounters as long as you make it there in one piece and hold them down. And in-game that's pretty much what should happen: any informed foe will have a gauntlet prepared and run at the sight of you. Compared to the base Martyr's more sedate abilities and the Lifeweaver's simple sharing, the new Panegyric brings the chaos.


    I suppose I should get around to reading the Ritualist stuff sometime so I can properly compare it to the Martyr.


    Feats
    (copied from above: I get the feeling the Ritual feats were also all done before the Martyr, might want to go back and re-write some of them.)

    -General: I'd suggest moving all mentions of money to a special or variant line at the bottom of the feats to minimize confusion. Special: if using the Monetary Sacrifice Variant, then X. More lines to alter but would make everything read better.

    -Burn Essence is laughably bad (unless the 1HD effect of Ritualist/Warrior powers are really strong), which is a shame since Resilient Essence is pretty great. A feat to increase Martyr's hp burn recovery would be nice.

    -Conjoined and Elaborate Ritual are feat-tax level overpowered, because they're literally doubling your effect for what might as well be free (and nothing says you can't combine them). I see no reason why every ritual specialist wouldn't have both as early as possible. Compare to Focused Ritual and Ritual Mastery, which are basically +1CL and 50% on durations only for a single ritual, rubbish.

    -Don't know if Bloodsong is meant to increase the attack/damage bonus on higher perform checks, I'd say no since that's huge, but I wouldn't depend on commas for it.

    -Consumptive Fetish should say how much you have to consume, since eating an entire body of your own size is rather impossible in that timescale without a special ability to do so.

    -Ritual Study needs to say what class you use it as or what happens if you take a Martyr ritual.

    Other: under Performing rituals, it would be nice of the spellcraft check bit used DC 5+etc instead of just words, making it easier to pick out, and/or stick it under General Terms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Touch of Friendship: dull but useful. Kindof annoying having something that never scales or upgrades, but in reality it's never bad and gives you a filler action if you need it.
    I was feeling a little uninspired when I went to rewrite this, so I snagged a (Bardic?) spell effect. It'll be useful 1-20, but it is just a little numbers bump for an encounter. Have to rely on those early rituals for something interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Bonus Feats: also dull but useful, same intervals as Ritualist. I like having the Exalted option, though standard Exalted feats give little room for interesting combos. It's been a while since I read the ritual list but I don't think they've got all the effects you'd need to offset Vow of Poverty (could also be some good ritual user items too, haven't read those yet either). I get the feeling the Ritual feats were also all done before the Martyr, might want to go back and re-write some of them. Sacrificial Virtuoso may want a note for any alternate Martyr or PrC uses that retain their spellcraft check. Assuming that Slaying Strike sets the sacrificial HD equal to the target killed, as one would expect, this lets a Martyr sacrifice people, which may or may not be a good idea depending on how PrC-exclusive you want that to be (alignment arguments notwithstanding since everyone does it different).
    I'll have to go back over the Ritual feats, I haven't paid too much attention to them in a while, aside from the ones players have grabbed, like Open Souled and Burn Essence. And since I've never had a player play a Martyr, that side is probably neglected.

    The big clash (imo) with the Vows and Rituals is Vow of Poverty vs the Call Boon line, which to my mind is entirely preferable to that feat. But there are some like Nymph's Kiss and Touch of Golden Ice that could prove useful (the latter a little less so).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Goodness Abounds/Calming Breeze: as far as I know there's no such default official ability as an aura, even if everyone gets what you mean (Marshal and Draconic auras have special restrictions). It's better to say, "All creatures/allies within 30' gain the benefits of the Protection From Evil spell." The distinction between creatures and allies is important since Creatures allows aggressive blocking of compulsion effects but also fouls allied compulsions until you can dismiss it on your turn, while Allies should disallow creatures that are hostile to you. I expect Calming Breeze is meant to work on foes much like the Apostle of Peace's main shtick, though it could again specify enemies to avoid hindering allies if you chose.
    Tweaked these to apply to allies only/hostiles only and fixed the wording.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Wash the Sins: big enough to have a use even though I'd still never plan on it, but having lost the ability to dismiss their Rituals as a free action (previously under Touch of Friendship), you can't bust it out on purpose unless the emergency is that someone ended one of your rituals. Hmm, except since it's not listed as a ritual there isn't a HD cap to worry about, nevermind.
    Because it's just a class ability, it's useable at will. Although the HP loss does have the usual drawback of natural healing. On the other hand, it's a fairly large high DC stun effect, so there are times it could prove useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Resistance of Pain: SR is a thing. Due to the fact that it's as likely to foul allied buffs or heals in combat, many homebrewers include lines removing the double-edge. This could be especially bad for the Martyr as most (or all?) of their fancy supernatural healing effects don't work on themselves. I'd really not name it anything to do with pain, since that usually indicated a bonus on saving throws against effects described as pain.
    Renamed to Resilience of Will, only applies to hostile effects now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Reversing Strike: I still don't like being stuck with the exact amount of damage dealt. Unlike being stuck with the HD of enemy monsters, damage can vary wildly to say the least. No need to say it's a free action when it's already triggered as a choice based on outside conditions, the free action line just makes it impossible to use since free actions can still only be used on your turn by default.
    That being stuck is why I switched it to allow a Martyr to cancel other rituals so that they can create one via Reversing Strike. Also, as they keep going up in levels, they get a number of abilities, both class and ritual based, which allow them to control the amount of damage they're taking, which makes Reversing Strike much more controllable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Sanctified One: needs more text. Doesn't specify a ritual level, so you can cast high level spells with CL1, and you can also go straight to 9th level spells (not that the top level sanctified spells are much worth casting). I assume you get one casting, probably activated as a supernatural standard action like most charged rituals, but none of this is stated. Certainly worth an extra bit of utility though, and come to think of it, replacing the normal sacrifice component with the Martyr's sacrifice component makes the top-tier spells actually usable.
    I've cleaned it up, but the wording is probably a little awkward. It's supposed to be "Pay hd of ritual-wielder level + spell level, at any point in the next day/hd you can cast the spell as a standard." And you can create any spell with a spell level equal or less than your highest ritual known (except 7th level rituals, which grant 7th 8th and 9th spells).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Remove Temptation: "60 ft. standard action" is awkward, just move the 60' down to where you put "within range." Always good to specify rounding. I honestly don't see the need to give an item immunity when you're paying maximum hit points out of the day, allowing a save (fort even), and of course destroying your own loot. Even on spell component pouches it costs more than a Warlock's Baleful Utterance spam. I'd like it if you could take the sacrifice here and spend it on creating a ritual later (or even now), if you're effectively spending 2,000gp per SHD then some perks are in order (was that in the original version? I forget).
    The original version only worked against weapons you were being attacked with, so it was much more limited (it was also 1/day). I thought about having the new version smash all the items on a chosen person, like a Mord's Disjunction, but worried that might be too strong. Currently, just cleaned up and flipped save to Reflex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Returning Anguish: so boss, great to combine with all the other damage reducing/redirecting effects you can get, maybe a little Moment of Perfect Mind/+psionic focus. I'd change the wording to use split or redirect, or at least put the "Martyr takes half damage" in front so it flows better. Also needs to specify what it works on, since the ability starts out just talking about damage but ends assuming a "striking creature." There's another reference to free actions that actually renders the ability useless (the only reason I can see to include it would be to prevent them from using this/Reversing Strike when unaware/flat-footed anyway).
    Clarified it's melee and ranged attacks, so no returning spell damage. Also cleaned it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Hand of the Heavens: still pretty solid for non-Lifeweavers.
    In theory, it's possible for this to cost less than a Lifeweaver-created ritual, depending on the number of targets. The Martyr would need to be rushing around doing a lot of touching in that one minute though. Although given that at this point Darting Defence is online, that could easily be worth it. Being able to outright cancel enemy attacks is always handy, especially across a whole party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Gift of Life: you know, I've always wanted to make a guy who could revive people basically at-will, and this is in fact the closest thing to that. Exactly zero hoops to jump through compared to other builds. Get some Autohypnosis ranks and perfectly memorize the details of everyone who dies in proximity to your adventures, bring them all back to life in your spare time once you hit 18th. Kinda breaks the ever loving crap out of the idea that anyone important stays dead unless the PC is the first to ever reach that level, unless the explanation is that a massive wave of epic threats immediately target you once you get it.
    This was originally just basic resurrection, but I felt that wasn't a strong enough effect this high up the class table. It's certainly going to mess with the overarching story of the campaign setting a little, because unlike the spell version, it is effectively free. But being able to drag old war heroes out of their graves to make one last stand on the side of good would be an awesome touch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Blessed Sacrifice: nice expensive all-in button, did you intend to have no limit on uses? I'd expect 1/day, seems to be a theme in variable resource pool classes having their capstone as a 1/day reload/reshuffle/limit break, not that I think it's the best method. Running around with only a single ritual is hardly the best idea, but this does let you just blast whatever ritual you want at maximum SHD every round.
    I hate uses per day limited abilities, so I almost never have them. Prefer to let the player choose whether and how to limit himself. And that's the idea, that the Martyr dumps everything they've got into a single offensive ritual looking for sky-high DCs, and hopefully wipes the floor with the act boss. Because if the Martyr doesn't, he just dropped all of his defences (and those of his allies).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Holy Mantle: see now, Starmantle is so much better than the usual DR 10/magic/alignment. Such synergy, Starmantle+Returning Anguish+Reflexive Retribution ritual. Fight magic weapon user in melee: subtract X from melee attack and throw it back, then pass a cheap reflex save to cut damage in half, then will save to split what's left with the attack. You take 1/4(damage-20) and they take 20+1/4. Well it sounds nice until they Power Attack your face off anyway.
    I really didn't want some "You gain the half-celestial template" capstone, which has been overdone to death. And it fitted in so nicely with the Martyr when I ran across the spell, I had to work it in somehow. Interestingly, it really stuffs up outsiders (up to big uglies like the Pit Fiend) and other natural weapon wielders - a lot of them have chaos- and law/evil- aligned weapons that don't count as magic. Technically, it even transmutes their natural weapons into a disappearing burst of light, although I'm not sure how that could really work. Either way, it's a supremely powerful damage resistance ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Martyr has definitely gotten stronger, looks pretty solid overall. Mostly just a couple of editing and style things, and the two-edged sword of SR. Might not be as strong as the PrCs, but that True Rez is gonna haunt anyone that PrCs out in a high level game.
    There's another pain point that's easy to miss - because Martyrs (and Ritualists) only get 7th level rituals at level 19, even a very slight loss of ritual-wielder levels cuts off those top level rituals. Given a few of those rituals are actually epic level spells (Damnation, for one), it's a lot of power to let go. It's another incentive to keep going down the main class. Although a few of the PrCs the penalties are too strong (Ceremonial Butcher comes to mind) and I'll need to tweak that.

    And I sometimes get the impression you spend more time finding all the little quirks in the classes than I do fixing them. Either way, it's very much appreciated.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Been re/learning Tome of Radiance so I've not come back to this in a while, no new text dumps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratovarius View Post
    The big clash (imo) with the Vows and Rituals is Vow of Poverty vs the Call Boon line, which to my mind is entirely preferable to that feat. But there are some like Nymph's Kiss and Touch of Golden Ice that could prove useful (the latter a little less so).
    I've got Call Boon marked in my head as "unreliable and dangerous," in the sense that it's so open ended it's liable to get DM wacked no matter which side of the screen I'm on. The gp limits and current wording that prevents any item with charges (including daily charges) makes me expect it's weaker than the Artificer research I did a while back and of course it also cuts into your other ritual allotments. On the other hand there are plenty of X/time period items still usable and you're not limited to arms/armor so it's probably at least as good if you've got a list ready, and that's where the DM whacking comes back (Artificer's have a much shorter list of weapon/armor options so it's almost possible to keep track of them).
    Tweaked [auras] to apply to allies only/hostiles only and fixed the wording.
    Went and looked up Calm Emotions the other day, never noticed it was a concentration spell. Vow of Peace doesn't make proper mention of it either, so I guess they consider it obvious enough to assume that duration is becomes "as long as they're in the aura." Amusingly, Vow of Peace does not include the same note as the Apostle of Peace's Pacifying Touch for leaving happy thoughts intact: a character with Vow of Peach is constantly suppressing all hostile emotions, and all positive emotions. So good job sticking with hostile-only there.
    Renamed to Resilience of Will, only applies to hostile effects now.
    Cool.
    Also, as they keep going up in levels, they get a number of abilities, both class and ritual based, which allow them to control the amount of damage they're taking, which makes Reversing Strike much more controllable.
    Was starting to notice that myself at the end, yeah.
    I've cleaned it up, but the wording is probably a little awkward.
    Mostly good, but still not sure if you intend to keep spellcasting restrictions like verbal/somatic components. Suggestion: "The spell is available for 1 day per hit die sacrificed, and he may trigger the spell at any point with a standard action. Activating the spell does not require any components, provoke attacks of opportunity, or allow counterspelling via means other than Dispel effects. Otherwise, the spell takes effect normally with his ritual-wielder level as his caster level and Wisdom as his spellcasting ability modifier." (rest is fine).
    In theory, it's possible for this to cost less than a Lifeweaver-created ritual, depending on the number of targets. The Martyr would need to be rushing around doing a lot of touching in that one minute though. Although given that at this point Darting Defence is online, that could easily be worth it. Being able to outright cancel enemy attacks is always handy, especially across a whole party.
    I meant in comparison to the Lifeweaver aura, though rechecking it I see that the range never increases past 10' so they'd probably still pay extra on at least a couple.
    This was originally just basic resurrection, but I felt that wasn't a strong enough effect this high up the class table. It's certainly going to mess with the overarching story of the campaign setting a little, because unlike the spell version, it is effectively free. But being able to drag old war heroes out of their graves to make one last stand on the side of good would be an awesome touch.
    Depending on much of a moral imperative it is to revive every person who dies it doesn't necessarily have to break the setting. Even realistic medieval populations are large enough that demanding a Martyr revive someone every day will mean they do nothing else for the rest of their life, when they could be out preventing larger disasters, and you can make all kinds of arguments about how such power is not to be used lightly and most people must accept death so it's worse overall if you go doing it willy-nilly. You mention old war heroes, I quite like that effect: in ancient times there were only so many dead heroes, but after several millienia (absurd time scales are standard) there are plenty for a modern person to try calling back. Assuming they died of not-age, weren't soul trapped/destroyed/permanently imprisoned by whoever did kill them, you can get enough solid data to cast the spell without a body, and they don't go nuts from the language/culture shock and agree to help you.
    Technically, it even transmutes their natural weapons into a disappearing burst of light, although I'm not sure how that could really work. Either way, it's a supremely powerful damage resistance ability.
    Normally I'd say "weapon does not mean natural weapon," except I've been using that exact ruling on a number of characters and monster builds. Let people rule as they will, I'd rather not touch that one.
    There's another pain point that's easy to miss - because Martyrs (and Ritualists) only get 7th level rituals at level 19, even a very slight loss of ritual-wielder levels cuts off those top level rituals. Given a few of those rituals are actually epic level spells (Damnation, for one), it's a lot of power to let go. It's another incentive to keep going down the main class. Although a few of the PrCs the penalties are too strong (Ceremonial Butcher comes to mind) and I'll need to tweak that.
    I hadn't noticed that actually, and it's a pretty big point. Although I don't agree with the "20 level build" people go around using as a standard (as the only way you'll go all the way to 20 without going epic is if you DM explicitly stops you there, which is lame), it's true that casters can afford three lost levels while ritual-wielders can only lose one and many of their PrCs cut more.
    And I sometimes get the impression you spend more time finding all the little quirks in the classes than I do fixing them. Either way, it's very much appreciated.
    Well yeah, it's bugfixing and the time sink there is reading the code and figuring out how it works/what's wrong so you can fix just a few characters. Not actually a programmer but it's the perfect comparison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Panegyric Balance: okay, that is some strong buff. +4 AC/+2 saves (noticed that feat requirement) and DR 8/adamantine will go a long way towards keeping you alive, although it's made the class into an amazing dip just for that.
    On the other hand, dipping for that ability chews up a ritual-wielder level, which is a big enough drawback I don't mind someone making that choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Sacrificial Boon: this has gotten wiggy, highly dependant on what your max hp is. You can tank your hp down and get the effect on more rituals, but I'd expect most people to avoid the suicide plan and only let it crop up on their final ritual by a few hp (and since the effect is reduced, the suicide guy isn't getting much). It's a modest little extra buff slot you'll end up with. Pre-edit: oh, I see, it only triggers once anyway, k.
    At this point, it's more encouragement to stay a little under half HP, because every time you cross the line, you get to buff an ally for free. So, limited use ability, but never a drawback for this class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Redirect Gift: actually, this has a bit of a problem interacting with the Martyr now that I think about it. The Martyr/Panegyric will almost always have their hp burned down below half, but since it's burn a healing spell can't actually increase you past half your maximum hit points, so this will never trigger. Also note that cure and other touch range spells would just go to. . . touch range, probably back on the caster.
    Changed it so that now it can bounce any healing effect to any other ally within 30 ft. It's written to include things like the Mass Heal spells, so AoE heals effectively mean someone else gets to get double healed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Undying Devotion: did this move to a lower level? Good to have early, though I'd still treat it as more of a "hey I don't die instantly like everyone else!" effect rather than trying to leverage the 20hp worth of room for more ritual burn.
    It did, most of the existing Panegyric abilities got chased down the class tree. And the "I can run away when nearly dead!" is all its meant to be, although it does give a little more cushion for using rituals if a player really wants to push it. But they would just be asking to get KOed by a goblin with a stick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Walk Amongst the Dead and Dying: the dying effect is still something I'd avoid using, but the raising is just fine now and the dying boost could have some use if the character's got a lot of max hp and is needed to finish the fight.
    The Dying effect was meant to be a way to get a downed party member back in the fight fairly quickly, but the will save DC is probably a little high for that to be consistent, except with Will primary/Wis caster classes. Should I drop the DC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Inheritance of the Meek: yes, now this is a thing. There is a part of me that has that gut reaction of "the whole party gets everything constantly for free omg broken," but like I said, in any reasonably optimized game I feel that intentionally walking around with half hit points is asking for death (unless you're built for it). Sure the rest of the party will tank up or rage out, but they won't have your Panegyric AC or DR, anyone who's not a frontliner will have less hp, and unless you brought the right defenses they'll all be one good maximized boom from death. This could vary a lot depending on groups though. I'd really expect using it aggressively to put the whole party on edge for potentially huge gains, while using it defensively to bring tons of "yes so awesome best support char ever!" moments. The kind of exploitable thing that is exactly what it's meant to be. Oh, also: Lifeweaver's aura drops if he falls unconscious, does this still work if/when you drop?
    The original idea behind this was that it would save characters who had been horribly clobbered by a BBEG or were just worn down, extending how long the team can go through an endurance drag. I can't imagine that the buffs this provide are good enough that a squishy or a frontliner would want to hang around under half HP, especially as some of the best defensive buffs (Darting Defence, for one) can't be transferred through this ability, due to having uses. It also stops Inheritance being used offensively, since there isn't much in the way of long-duration no uses offensive buffs. As is always the case though, Call Boon could crop up here, since it has no uses. Call Boon really seems to crop up everywhere, doesn't it?

    And yes, it shuts down when the Panegyric does. Made clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Balancing the Scales: don't remember if that was there before, but it's a pretty huge buff. Half a tank's hp added to a caster is some serious toughness. Of course it runs completely counter to Inheritance of the Meek and shuts it down when activated, in the interesting style of conflicting class abilities. At this point the Panegyric has some serious overall party toughness to put out: give everyone (else) half a character's worth of temp hp, then heal the party (sans self) half a character's worth of hp, then have the defenses kick in whenever anyone drops below half (capable of roughly halving or negating various attack methods). Call it an extra three halves worth of defense per person per fight. Compare to a caster: can they put out three halves of an hp bar per target per fight? (Nothing that the enemy obviously has their own blocks of attack negation and mass damage/disable) Dunno if those are useful comparisons, I'm just making it up as I go. Probably better to compare it to healer build casters: max temporary 3 hp/HD with Initiate of Ilmater (required Cleric 7), and heal spam every round for smaller amounts and limited uses, smaller and weaker buffs but active on demand to cover those temporary hit points and make them last longer. I don't really know how well healer builds work in other people's games to be honest. I build a solid heal/buff filler character for when I ran Red Hand of Doom, seemed to work pretty well at holding them together. I think a Panegyric would be stronger than he was, but the lack of Clerical utility hurts. Captain Awesome was frustrating because of Imbued Healing spam (1 temp hp/HD after any heal), but the Panegyric at ECL 10 gives a much larger pile of hp. Not being limited to daily uses might have saved the party when they kept forgetting they were out of spells though.
    It's somewhat akin to being given Mass Heal as an every 5 round standard action SLA, once you combine it with Leaping Touch. Now, in most fights that probably means you only get to use it once, but once should be enough to stop people from falling over. So this ability is looking just a touch strong when it comes to healing, as in it can put anything short of dedicated Heal spam to shame. And it lasts forever, whereas eventually a Heal spammer will run out of juice. Against any kind of "smart" BBEG, the Panegyric would be targeted by absolutely everything to get them to go down first. The bigger problem here though is actually Leaping Touch, which grants it the Mass effect. Think I need to hit both abilities with a nerf bat.

    Leaping Touch - something like "Halve the amount of healing for each creature after the first, so that the second creature receives half the total, the third a quarter, the fourth an eighth, and so on".
    Balancing the Scales - "The maximum temporary hitpoints this ability can grant is equal to twice your class level". Either that or something that moves it away from temporary HP and instead rebalances hit points across the party. Problem is that requires % math at the table.
    Haven't actually made either of these changes yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Expunge Corruption: hmm, given the effect I'd call it "Corruption Turns Inward" or something myself. I feel the immunity piercing could be worded a bit better, but it's non-standard enough that it's easier to extrapolate the intent (though the question of spells and items might be raised). That said, wow that is aggressive. Good enough on it's own even without benefiting from the ritual beforehand, and you could just bomb a guy room with a single maxed ritual for negative levels equal to your own level, with no save or immunities. That is first resort boss killer material. Shadow Dragons are terrifying for their negative level breath weapons with save for half, and they max out at 8 for great wyrm. Needs some sort of limit on negative levels dealt. I do like it as a precursor to the Specte bomb capstone, and the delicious fun of dropping negative levels on people who expect to be dealing them out. Oh, and should specify an action.
    The downside was supposed to be that you also annihilated any Neutral allies in your party, but they'd be smart enough to just hang out out of range. So, large nerf bat incoming for this ability. Now single target, with a save, and deals less level drain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Rise and Rise Again: still solid. I see you moved the next ritual wielder drop to next level but I think it's fine here, if not at at 6th for symmetry. I think there's a bit of tradition in synching dropped caster levels with the levels where you get free resurrections.
    Given how strong Corruption is, at 6th might be a good idea. I'll scoot it forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Moment of Justice: this might be going a bit far, or a bit early, but maybe not. With the extra death buffer you should be able to survive most one-shots from half, so this could trigger in multiple fights. On the other hand, it still shuts down Inheritance of the Meek and leaves you an inch from death, and having a trigger for when they figure out to target the support guy is pretty important (one could argue that weakness should be kept as a balancing factor, but I'd expect it to be even more frustrating for the DM not being able to target you without seeming like a jerk). And AoE damage can easily meet this amount, basically meaning you drop and everyone else lands back where they were.
    I'm not sure I like the ritual transference, although it is voluntary. It doesn't have the same restriction as Inheritance of the Meek, so a wiseguy party can actually injure the Panegyric below 0hp to transfer some of his offensive rituals (so that everyone gets a free shot in round 1), and then heal him back up and play normally.

    Optional replacements for the ritual transfer are TempHP, or giving allies his Panegyric Balance benefits until he's upright once more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Ritual Empowerment: since you don't have an Empower Ritual/Maximize Ritual feat, I think it'd be appropriate to spell out what happens here. I think you mean to increase variables as well as uses though I don't recall many Martyr Rituals with variables. Makes it feel like if you just whip up another ritual you'll have more ammo and stronger effects to stretch the goal, but you're gambling your survivability and should really retreat. This is the first ability that really does that, at a level where it's really not advisable but the stakes should also be high enough you might be willing to try it.
    I've made it more explicit, and cleaned it up a little bit. Now, it's possible to abuse this by being fully healthy, getting beaten down till under 25%, using it, healing up, and using it again, to stock up on rituals and then go into combat normally. Just not sure how to stop ally abuse without completely changing the ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Lifeforce Arisen: changed to an everything bonus, okay. Presumably a standard action but not listed. Easy to compare to Expunge Corruption, both are 1/3 SHD converted, both are +X/-X to all rolls. Negative levels generally much better I'd say, since they hurt your foe's ability to deal damage via attack rolls or spells. This is best with party members that put out huge numbers of attacks since damage rolls are rolls (heck, spells have damage rolls), which does make this a fairly unique sort of bomb, but it's not the kind of thing you'd set up to go all in on like the negative levels. Goes good with really rapid shot, natural weapon builds, or Avalanche of Blades. Based on raw power this should probably be swapped with Expunge Corruption, but that destroys the foreshadowing effect and I wouldn't actually want to use this at a lower level. Or maybe I'm just tired.
    Added standard action. With the negative levels being weakened, I think this is better, since it improves both offensive and defence across the whole party instead of one BBEG. And you're right that someone using a tonne of dice, such as a TWF sneaker, would love all the extra damage this grants. That never bothers me, because by the later stages of the game, HP damage is well below BFC as a primary strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Revival: did this name change? Part of me thinks it should be really ostentatious, like "Fury of Lost Souls," or "Vengence of all those who came Before," but a simple one-word name is probably better. Also ought to specify action, as well as range and placement for summons, and what kind of actions they take when. I believe the default is that creatures summoned as a standard action get to take a standard action immediately on the turn they're summoned, which is what makes this so lethal: surround every space of the creature in all three dimensions, make incorporeal touch attacks. They could also partial charge if needed.
    Nope, name's the same since the beginning. Added in standard action, adjacency rules for the souls, action order, and restricted it to being used only once per creature. So, it's an incorporeal touch bomb, and quite a big one. If a Panegyric could get lots of +all rolls, they could really abuse this ability on a BBEG. But I'd totally allow it for hilariousness, if nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Panegyric looks like it went straight from neglected to DM's baby in one shot. Like any strong healer/buffer it's going to depend heavily on the DM and group, making the party invincible in some groups, and turning other games into a tactical scramble as the DM alternates between separating/cutting off/damage spiking/other and the players respond with their own madness, with the DM always having access to more toys. The two main offensive abilities seem crafted as an apology for all the DM hate, letting you basically crush many boss encounters as long as you make it there in one piece and hold them down. And in-game that's pretty much what should happen: any informed foe will have a gauntlet prepared and run at the sight of you. Compared to the base Martyr's more sedate abilities and the Lifeweaver's simple sharing, the new Panegyric brings the chaos.
    So the Panegyric should be tuned down a little bit from the energy drain/healing monster it was, but once it caps out, it can still crush bosses that aren't immune to drains of various kinds. And it should still keep the party's endurance level up and chugging along. Once it falls down though (because it doesn't get a lot of the protections it can hand out to allies), the party should get a lot weaker.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    General: I'd suggest moving all mentions of money to a special or variant line at the bottom of the feats to minimize confusion. Special: if using the Monetary Sacrifice Variant, then X. More lines to alter but would make everything read better.
    Done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Burn Essence is laughably bad (unless the 1HD effect of Ritualist/Warrior powers are really strong), which is a shame since Resilient Essence is pretty great. A feat to increase Martyr's hp burn recovery would be nice.
    He only needs 7 HD for a 7th level ritual, so it can actually be used to power any of them. Now, a large chunk of the Ritualist rituals rely on the underlying nature of the creature sacrificed, which can make burning Con pointless, but there are enough rituals out there that a Ritualist who focuses on it + Resilient Essence can stay maxed out permanently without killing anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Conjoined and Elaborate Ritual are feat-tax level overpowered, because they're literally doubling your effect for what might as well be free (and nothing says you can't combine them). I see no reason why every ritual specialist wouldn't have both as early as possible. Compare to Focused Ritual and Ritual Mastery, which are basically +1CL and 50% on durations only for a single ritual, rubbish.
    Conjoined Ritual was designed so that if a Ritualist finds one interesting creature, they can get multiple benefits out of it. If a Ritualist is able to capture two identical creatures, it's actually weaker. Elaborate Ritual, on the other hand, is stupid, and needs fixing. Except I'm not sure how to without making it worthless. Might just drop it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Don't know if Bloodsong is meant to increase the attack/damage bonus on higher perform checks, I'd say no since that's huge, but I wouldn't depend on commas for it.
    It is, because it only applies to Ritual Subtype creatures, and because it requires concentration (your standard action). And currently, there's no class that supports Bard/Ritual crossovers, so the character build using it is at a distinct disadvantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Consumptive Fetish should say how much you have to consume, since eating an entire body of your own size is rather impossible in that timescale without a special ability to do so.
    Magical gluttony corrected. Takes you a minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Ritual Study needs to say what class you use it as or what happens if you take a Martyr ritual.
    Sorted both Ritual Study feats, added Ritual Knowledge as the Expanded Knowledge copycat

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Other: under Performing rituals, it would be nice of the spellcraft check bit used DC 5+etc instead of just words, making it easier to pick out, and/or stick it under General Terms.
    Sorted.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    And now for round #3 of the bugfixing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    I've got Call Boon marked in my head as "unreliable and dangerous," in the sense that it's so open ended it's liable to get DM wacked no matter which side of the screen I'm on. The gp limits and current wording that prevents any item with charges (including daily charges) makes me expect it's weaker than the Artificer research I did a while back and of course it also cuts into your other ritual allotments. On the other hand there are plenty of X/time period items still usable and you're not limited to arms/armor so it's probably at least as good if you've got a list ready, and that's where the DM whacking comes back (Artificer's have a much shorter list of weapon/armor options so it's almost possible to keep track of them).
    It's a "gentleman's agreement" ability, certainly. The no charges/uses cuts out most of the obvious abuses, like a Ring of Three Wishes, Wands, or Staves, but I'm sure a dedicated player can come up with something interesting all the same. But it has to be something he can use, since handing it to another player (the obvious use of summoning a big axe, for instance), doesn't work. I think there's enough in the way of restrictions that a player can't get away with too much, but I shall surely be proven wrong by the CO crowd sooner or later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Went and looked up Calm Emotions the other day, never noticed it was a concentration spell. Vow of Peace doesn't make proper mention of it either, so I guess they consider it obvious enough to assume that duration is becomes "as long as they're in the aura." Amusingly, Vow of Peace does not include the same note as the Apostle of Peace's Pacifying Touch for leaving happy thoughts intact: a character with Vow of Peach is constantly suppressing all hostile emotions, and all positive emotions. So good job sticking with hostile-only there.
    I didn't actually realize that Calm Emotions stopped you being happy as well (I haven't looked at the actual spell in ages). Most of the times at the table, it's just been used as a shutdown against ragers or hostiles, rather than anything more nuanced. The hostile only was more so a Martyr didn't shut down a Barbarian/Savage in their own party than anything more exciting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Mostly good, but still not sure if you intend to keep spellcasting restrictions like verbal/somatic components. Suggestion: "The spell is available for 1 day per hit die sacrificed, and he may trigger the spell at any point with a standard action. Activating the spell does not require any components, provoke attacks of opportunity, or allow counterspelling via means other than Dispel effects. Otherwise, the spell takes effect normally with his ritual-wielder level as his caster level and Wisdom as his spellcasting ability modifier." (rest is fine).
    Changes in place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    I meant in comparison to the Lifeweaver aura, though rechecking it I see that the range never increases past 10' so they'd probably still pay extra on at least a couple.
    I'd sort of forgotten the Lifeweaver aura was so small. Tempted to bump it up to 20 or 30 ft, which would also make it more in line with all the other aura effects in ritual magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Depending on much of a moral imperative it is to revive every person who dies it doesn't necessarily have to break the setting. Even realistic medieval populations are large enough that demanding a Martyr revive someone every day will mean they do nothing else for the rest of their life, when they could be out preventing larger disasters, and you can make all kinds of arguments about how such power is not to be used lightly and most people must accept death so it's worse overall if you go doing it willy-nilly. You mention old war heroes, I quite like that effect: in ancient times there were only so many dead heroes, but after several millienia (absurd time scales are standard) there are plenty for a modern person to try calling back. Assuming they died of not-age, weren't soul trapped/destroyed/permanently imprisoned by whoever did kill them, you can get enough solid data to cast the spell without a body, and they don't go nuts from the language/culture shock and agree to help you.
    The reason resurrecting old heroes came to mind is there's a book I read about it, I think from Michael Stackpole. Where they do exactly what you're suggesting, and bring back a long dead hero to save the day. He's not particularly happy with them as a result. Which strikes me as a much more realistic result than the hero being super thrilled to save the day again. It would also make a nice plot point in a high level campaign. Or even a lower level one, for that matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Normally I'd say "weapon does not mean natural weapon," except I've been using that exact ruling on a number of characters and monster builds. Let people rule as they will, I'd rather not touch that one.
    I always viewed it as Weapon is a superset of Natural Weapons, Manufactured Weapons, and Unarmed Strikes (which are their own weird corner). It would strike me as really weird that that you could shrug off damage from epic magic weapons, but if a wolf runs up and bites your ankle, you take full damage. But DMs get the fun of that argument, not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    I hadn't noticed that actually, and it's a pretty big point. Although I don't agree with the "20 level build" people go around using as a standard (as the only way you'll go all the way to 20 without going epic is if you DM explicitly stops you there, which is lame), it's true that casters can afford three lost levels while ritual-wielders can only lose one and many of their PrCs cut more.
    I mostly plan my classes around 1-15 or so, because that's where I've found most stories stop. Above that, it becomes such a convoluted mess of abilities and counters in every round of combat that life just grinds to a halt. Whoever invented celerity and nerveskitter has a lot to answer for. The actual Arhosa Campaign Setting (my own world) expects everything to be concluded by about 13th, an idea I stole from Eberron shamelessly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Well yeah, it's bugfixing and the time sink there is reading the code and figuring out how it works/what's wrong so you can fix just a few characters. Not actually a programmer but it's the perfect comparison.
    I was a programmer, and one of my most vivid memories of it was spending several hours to find I'd written "== 1" instead of "== -1". Another was of writing "= 1" instead of "== 1". So I would say your analogy is very accurate.

    Edit:
    Changes to the Panegyric:
    Leaping Touch - Halves healing with each jump (Half, quarter, eighth, etc.)
    Balance the Scales - Max TempHP is 2x class level. TempHP lasts 1 round/level
    Moment of Justice - Removed ritual transfer. Added Panegyric Balance transfer, for 1 round/level

    Feats:
    Elaborate Ritual - Increase duration by 4 HD, reduces all other HD stats (including bonuses) by 2.

    Unless you've got more on the Martyr side of the house, I'd say that half, at least, of Ritual Magic is complete.
    Last edited by Stratovarius; 2015-10-19 at 01:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    So this is awesome...but curious if you thought about adding an actual material component aspect to it, that doesn't make you a lord of slaughter or the guy that bleeds alot. Like bone form using the finger bone of a humanoid etched in arcane writings, where people only find it distasteful not kill it with fire you just ate somebody. Maybe a fourth class would be most appropriate for that but just a thought. If your not in the "mood" i fully understand and will happly make the class or mod I just want your view point before doing anything that might go against the intent as a whole as i love the whole Sacrificer/Knight of Khorne/Martyr approach but the sacrificer doesn't fit the idea of a good guy ritualist and the martyr is really goodie two shoes, but so what i was looking for was the guy that uses expensive prep and unique items to preform their rituals.

    Sorry for the jumble rant bottom line is Yeah! Sacrificer/Knight of Khorne/Martyr!, No non sacrifice blood option? if not something you had planned let me know ill happliy whip something up.
    Last edited by Lanth Sor; 2015-10-19 at 03:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanth Sor View Post
    So this is awesome...but curious if you thought about adding an actual material component aspect to it, that doesn't make you a lord of slaughter or the guy that bleeds alot. Like bone form using the finger bone of a humanoid etched in arcane writings, where people only find it distasteful not kill it with fire you just ate somebody. Maybe a fourth class would be most appropriate for that but just a thought. If your not in the "mood" i fully understand and will happly make the class or mod I just want your view point before doing anything that might go against the intent as a whole as i love the whole Sacrificer/Knight of Khorne/Martyr approach but the sacrificer doesn't fit the idea of a good guy ritualist and the martyr is really goodie two shoes, but so what i was looking for was the guy that uses expensive prep and unique items to preform their rituals.

    Sorry for the jumble rant bottom line is Yeah! Sacrificer/Knight of Khorne/Martyr!, No non sacrifice blood option? if not something you had planned let me know ill happliy whip something up.
    So, the closest current option to what you're looking for is the Monetary Sacrifice rules under the Variant Rules link, but I've never been able to get the balance appropriately sorted on that, to the point where it used to be part of the Martyr class in addition to being a variant and got stripped out and relegated to variant status alone.

    Now, the issue with alternate systems is that a lot of the rituals (those for the Ritualist and Ritual Warrior) rely on having a creature, or at least a creature analogue, on the sacrificing table. The "of the Fallen" line of Rituals all grant various abilities taken from the slain creature, so unless you were to create a whole pile of rituals that don't need that, you'd need to create a way to have the sacrifice count as a certain type of creature. Or use the sanctified rituals of the Martyr.

    The simplest way around the problem is to allow the Ritualist to "prepare" ingredients, such as the dug up body of an Umber Hulk by treating it with special unguents and so on. But then you run into the issue of what's the cost/drawback? Money doesn't scale linearly in D&D, so you'd need to use something like HD * HD * 10gp, which is small enough at first level, but isn't really high enough at the upper end (although I suppose 4,000gp every time a Ritualist wants to use a ritual is a decent drawback).

    If I was going to draw up basic rules for something like this, it would be:

    Corpse Sacrifice
    Corpse Sacrifice does not apply to the Martyr or similar ritual-creating classes
    Normally, a ritual-wielder needs to sacrifice a living creature in order to power his rituals. However, this can prove to be an impediment to his dealings with the surrounding community (never mind the regional authorities), and so certain collections of ritual-wielders have discovered another, somewhat less gruesome, way to power their rituals. A ritual-wielder needs to "acquire" a mostly-intact (80% or better) corpse of a creature, and then spend one hour treating it with unguents and special salves to prepare the corpse for sacrifice. These materials cost 10gp times the (living) hit dice of the corpse squared (mathematically, 10gp * HD * HD). Once the corpse has been prepared in such a way, it can be used as per normal in a ritual at any point in the next week. If the corpse has not been used in a ritual within a week from it being treated, it decomposes and cannot be used again. This does not allow the sacrifice of undead, constructs, or any other creature that has never been alive.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Ill hash out a class because that seems the best option for the system is make unique class features to shape the needs of the design.

    So I'mma go smash some rocks together and come back when its not dead.
    Last edited by Lanth Sor; 2015-10-19 at 06:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanth Sor View Post
    Ill hash out a class because that seems the best option for the system is make unique class features to shape the needs of the design.

    So I'mma go smash some rocks together and come back when its not dead.
    That is pretty close to how I approached it - there's no overlap between Martyr and the creature sacrificers, although those two could mostly swap rituals at will (aside from the few that depend on Finishing Strike).

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Bloodlight Preceptor

    "The light of your soul shall guide my way."
    – Balhoa Bahat, Hastro Bloodlight Preceptor


    Within each living creature is a soul, a gift. But not a gift to that creature, oh no. A gift to the Bloodlight Preceptor, for with it he can see the way forward, see the path that he is to take. And how he is to accomplish that goal. For him, the souls of the living are tools that illuminate his path, a constellation of energy that can be used to steal the life from yet more creatures, until the Bloodlight Preceptor has accomplished his goal of bathing the world in the ruby light of blood. Only then, when souls swirl about him and guide his path, is the Bloodlight Preceptor truly at home in the world.

    Becoming a Bloodlight Preceptor
    Bloodlight Preceptors have chosen to follow a specific path: that of the bloodstar. Formed from the souls of the deceased, these ritualistic creations have enticed the Bloodlight Preceptor since he first learned of them. Ever since then, he has dedicated his talents towards that outlet, always in search of a greater form of bloodlight. But only when he first becomes a Bloodlight Preceptor does he truly understand the concepts that have led him down his path, for it is then that he understands how to birth a whole panoply of bloodstars, and how to cover the world in their radiance.

    Table 1: The Bloodlight Preceptor
    Hit Die: d6

    Code:
    Level  BAB    Ref   Fort  Will   Special Abilities                   Rituals            
    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
      1    +0     +0    +0    +2     Swarm of Lights, Personal Glow      +1 Ritual Level
      2    +1     +0    +0    +3     Outgoing Soul, Illumination         +1 Ritual Level 
      3    +1     +1    +1    +3     Sight of the Bloodied Soul          +1 Ritual Level
    Class skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Rituals), Knowledge (The Planes), Profession, Spellcraft, Use Magical Device, Use Rope.

    Requirements:
    Feats: Lightbringer
    Rituals: 2nd level Rituals or above
    Special: Must know at least two Bloodstar rituals

    Class Features
    The souls of others have brought illumination to the path before the Bloodlight Preceptor, but he does not cherish this light. Rather, he abuses it for his own gains.
    • Rituals Known: The Bloodlight Preceptor increases rituals known as if the character had gained a level in the ritual-wielding class at each indicated level.
    • Swarm of Lights (Ex): The Bloodlight Preceptor may have any number Bloodstar rituals active at a time, and when he spends a move action, may move as many bloodstars as desired as part of the same action.
    • Personal Glow (Su): A Bloodlight Preceptor is surrounded by a permanent ruby glow, equal in brightness to a Daylight spell cast at his ritual wielder level. Any creatures who suffer in bright light suffer in his presence.
    • Illumination (Ex): Bloodstar rituals created by the Bloodlight Preceptor have their area of effect increased by 10 ft. (usually from 10 ft. to 20 ft.).
    • Outgoing Soul (Su): The Bloodlight Preceptor is permanently under the effect of a Star of Self ritual with 1 sacrificial hit dice, and may move this bloodstar as a free action. It does not count against his ritual wielder hit dice cap. Abilities that increase the sacrificial hit dice of rituals do not increase the hit dice of this ritual.
    • Sight of the Bloodied Soul (Su): The light of the stolen souls in which the Bloodlight Preceptor traffics let it find others whom it can sacrifice. Any hostile creature illuminated by a Bloodstar ritual cannot go Ethereal or to the Shadow Plane, and loses any concealment, invisibility, or illusionary protection. In addition, the Bloodlight Preceptor can treat any bloodstar he controls as if it was an arcane eye by concentrating as a standard action.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Updated the front post with the vastly newer and more flavor-filled PDF link.
    Last edited by Stratovarius; 2017-11-03 at 11:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    This new system look very promising, but yeah the wall of text is huge. Could you post something like a sample level 5 character and/or a sample encounter using the ability of one of the classes maybe against one of your monster. That would help understand the mechanics without having to read everything.

    Kudos just on writing all this

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Hope this helps:

    PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER
    Relak Traven is a 3rd-level Hastro Ritualist. As a 3rd-level ritualist, he can be under the effects of up to 9 sacrificial hit dice at a given time (his ritual-wielder level of 3 * the 3 sacrificial hit dice allowed per ritual-wielder level). Already under the effect of a 2 sacrificial hit dice Dazzling Fetor and a 4 sacrificial hit dice Streaked Countenance, when the party is able to capture a leopard, a 3 hit dice animal, Relak decides to sacrifice it.

    Binding the creature in place with the help of his allies, Relak spends the 5 minutes necessary to create a Wave of Fetor ritual, slaying the leopard at the conclusion of the ritual with a coup de grace and successfully passing the DC 14 Spellcraft check.

    Now under the effect of three rituals, when the party encounters a mob of orcs later that day, Relak expends one of his three uses of Wave of Fetor to send the mob sprawling, making the fight easy for his allies.

    By evening, Relak’s Dazzling Fetor has run its two day course, and he has 2 sacrificial hit dice available to create another ritual with.

    Spoiler: Rituals Named
    Show

    DAZZLING FETOR
    Level: Ritualist 1
    Ritual Duration: 1 day/sacrificial hit dice
    Range: Personal; see text
    Effect: Fog spreads in area; see text
    Saving Throw: See text
    Light sparkles as it passes through the mists that bleed outward from the ritual-wielder, a thin tint of blood catching the light and springing it free into rainbow colors. The fetor acts as per the Obscuring Mist spell with a caster level equal to the sacrificial hit dice, except as follows. Any creature within the area of the fetor must succeed at a Fortitude save each round that he is in the cloud or become dazzled for one round. If dispersed, the cloud reforms after one hour.

    STREAKED COUNTENANCE
    Level: Ritualist 1
    Ritual Duration: 1 day/sacrificial hit dice
    Range: Personal
    Saving Throw: See text
    The ritual-wielder marks himself with leavings taken from the body of the sacrifice, strange whorls that cover his face. He gains a +1 bonus to Intimidate for each sacrificial hit dice. He may choose to expend the ritual in a single attack against a foe. If the total sacrificial hit dice is six or below, this creates a Fear spell that affects a single creature. If the total sacrificial hit dice is seven or above, this creates a Phantasmal Killer spell. The caster level for these spells is equal to the sacrificial hit dice. Using this effect ends the ritual.

    WAVE OF FETOR
    Level: Ritualist 1
    Ritual Duration: 1 day/sacrificial hit dice
    Range: Personal
    Saving Throw: None
    Once per hit dice of the sacrifice, the ritual-wielder can target a single point within 10 ft. per hit dice of the sacrifice. Any creature within 20 ft. of that point must succeed at a Reflex save or be knocked prone and pushed to the edge of the area. They are pushed outward in a direct line from the center point of the area to its edge.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Updated with some tweaked rituals and another two prestige classes.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Updated with Bone Crafter, Cabalistic Thaumaturge, and Caeth Guardian.

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    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Carcass Hunter and Ceremonial Butcher. 7/17 PrCs complete.

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    Incanter

    "Silly wizard I draw upon powers more primal then your conventions."
    – Koltriz Andokar, Elf Incanter


    Rituals come in all forms, from the minor, daily, personal rituals of all beings, to those that can summon a demon, commune with a deity, or create an artefact. Many of these have no power beyond what the creator imbues into them through force of habit. There are other rituals that do possess an inherent power, ones performed far less than the daily, ones that call to beings and powers beyond the normal realm of existence. Rituals of this sort demand a sacrifice, given to gain access to what power the ritual offers. These greater rituals of sacrifice are the tool of the incanter, skilled crafters of elder magics.


    Making a Incanter
    An incanter gather rare reagents and the essence of things recently dead to combine them making tool for later use. They are rarely found without their tome of rituals and bag of rare oddities that would make the average person cringe. While they master a few rituals they can preform in a pinch, they tend to be more prepared and meticulous then most ritual wielders. They find the magic bound in standard spells to lose it soul and thus favor the intricacies of their bizarre rituals more natural.


    Abilities: An Incanter uses Intelligence to determine what level of ritual an incanter can perform. If he has less than 11 Intelligence, he cannot perform any rituals. Depending on method of combat the incanter may prefer strength or dexterity, Charisma fuels their ability to gather the tools of their trade.

    Races: Incanters can be found among any race. More socially advanced races are more common as tribal races tend to lack the convention of written records. Elves of particularly ancient origins and fringe practitioners of magic in human towns are the most common incanters. They are uncommon among the other standard races. Incanters exist in the in-between of primal tribal magic and wizard's high magic, any race that occupies that space is likely to carry a heightened number of incanters.

    Alignment: Incanters have no proclivity for any alignment, they are just as likely to be a well meaning witch in the woods, or cackling hag of the bog. They can be community leaders, dark harbingers of a wrathful horde.

    Starting Gold: 5d4 x 10

    Starting Age: As Wizard.


    Table 1: The Incanter
    Hit Die: d8

    Code:
    Level  BAB   Ref   Fort  Will  Abilities                                     Maximum Ritual Level
    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
    1      +0    +0    +0    +2     Incanter's Journal, Conservationist,          1
                                    Prepared Rituals, Tactical Rituals
    2      +1    +0    +0    +3     Incanter's Record                             1  
    3      +1    +1    +1    +3     Packrat                                       1  
    4      +2    +1    +1    +4     Incanter's Record                             2  
    5      +2    +1    +1    +4                                                   2  
    6      +3    +2    +2    +5     Incanter's Record                             2  
    7      +3    +2    +2    +5                                                   3    
    8      +4    +2    +2    +6     Incanter's Record                             3
    9      +4    +3    +3    +6                                                   3
    10     +5    +3    +3    +7     Incanter's Record                             4
    11     +5    +3    +3    +7                                                   4
    12     +6    +4    +4    +8     Incanter's Record                             4
    13     +6    +4    +4    +8                                                   5
    14     +7    +4    +4    +9     Incanter's Record                             5
    15     +7    +5    +5    +9                                                   5
    16     +8    +5    +5    +10    Incanter's Record                             6
    17     +8    +5    +5    +10                                                  6
    18     +9    +6    +6    +11    Incanter's Record                             6
    19     +9    +6    +6    +11                                                  7
    20     +10   +6    +6    +12    Incanter's Record, Living Library             7
    Class skills (6 + Int modifier per level, x4 at first level): Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (All; taken individually), Perform, Profession, Spellcraft, Survival, Use Magical Device, Use Rope.

    Class Features
    The search for the source of rituals true power guides you to greater understanding of self and the world around you.
    • Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Incanters are proficient with all simple weapons and light armour. If a Incanter wears armour, he takes a penalty on all skill checks made within a ritual equal to the Armour Check Penalty.
    • Incanter's Journal: The incanter carries a books filled with notes on monsters, rituals, and things they encounter. The incanter begins play with 4 rituals they can use recorded in their journal. As long as the incanter has their journal, they can preform any ritual in their journal, or in a deciphered journal. The incanter benefits form Knowledge devotion feat as long as they have their journal. They add an additional ritual each level to their journal. They may transcribe a ritual from another incanter's journal into their own at a cost of 50g per ritual level or spend a week with a ritual weilder and 25g per ritual level. Each ritual take up 1 page per level of the ritual.
      There is no unified language for ritual magic and some incanters go out of their way to make their journals illegible to others. As such deciphering a journal of another incanter can be like learning a new language taking months or even years. Some journals are designed more as instructional guides, they can be simple enough non ritual-weilders can follow along.
    • Conservationist: The incanters have developed the art of utilizing pieces of the dead and objects of power to fuel their rituals. The incanter may spend an hour harvesting required reagents from a corpse that has not been used for any other means. The process yields resources of a value base on type and HD. These resources spoil after 1 day per class level. Gentle Repose does halt the spoilage. The process makes the corpse unfit for any other use save trun-in for quest reward.
    • Prepared Rituals: The incanter can spend 5 x sacrifice HD x ritual level minutes preparing a ritual for use. They must have all ingredients save the catalyst combined. Upon completion of the process the incanter makes a spellcraft check DC 10 + 1/2 sacrifice HD + ritual level, if successful the ritual is ready and can be completed at any time as long as all components are available.
    • Tactical Ritual: The incanter can preform a tactical ritual on the fly. Tactical rituals are sloppy and cost twice the normal resources. A tactical ritual takes 2 rounds per ritual level and sacrifice counts as half their normal HD for all effects based on HD including HD required to cast the ritual.
    • Incanter's Record: Starting at the second level and every even level there after the incanter adds a new record to their journal. These records are compilations of information she has found or tricks they have come to master.
      • Advanced Preservation: Any materials gathered via conservationist do not spoil while in the incanter's possession. The normal 1 day per hit die spoilage begins once they leave the incanter's possession.
      • Arcano Babble: The incanter starts spouting off random information form their journal, in incohesive lines that leave their enemies dazed. As a standard action, the incanter starts talking and anyone in 30ft must make a will save DC 10 + 1/2 class level + intelligence modifier. On a failed save they are dazed for 1d4 rounds. Ritual-wielders gain +4 to the save.
      • Archivist's Notes: When the incanter makes a knowledge devotion roll against a creature and takes 2 rounds joting down notes they can retain +1 of the bonus permanently. This bonus stacks each time used, but you cannot increase the bonus unless your current bonus i higher then your existing notes.
      • Convention Defined: The incanter gains a ritual feat they meet the requirements for. This may be taken an unlimited number of times each time learning another feat.
      • Master Preservation: By spending 30g times HD² of the creature harvested the incanter can permanently preserve materials gained though conservationist. Requires Advanced Preservation. Any such prepared materials have a market value of 60g times HD² of the creature.
      • Monster Hunter's Notes: The incanter gains the ability to research a specific creature(vampire, ogre, human, or etc.) and gains favored enemy toward that creature. Each creature takes up one page per bonus provided by favored enemy. The bonus provided is +1 per 5 your result exceeds DC 10 Knowledge check related to the creatures type. Research requires a large library, or a collection of works about the creature worth 25g per HD of the creature. The research can only be done once for a given creature per level.
      • Ritual Mastery: The incanter learns a few rituals so well they can preform the rituals without their journal. The incanter may choose a number of rituals equal to their intelligence modifier to master. The rituals must be rituals recorded in their journal. Upon reaching the 20th level the incanter adds 2 to the effective HD of any sacrifice used for one of the mastered rituals. This may be taken multiple times each time additional rituals are learned.
      • Ritualistic Knowledge: When the incanter uses knowledge devotion on a sacrifice prior to using conservation on them, they garner twice the normal sacrifice resources, unless the resource is unique, IE a creatures heart. Requires Conjoined Ritual feat.
      • Shared Experience: The incanter learns how to direct his allies in combat. As a standard action, they can grant any ally able to hear them the benefit of their knowledge devotion feat.
      • Training Notes: The incanter chooses 2 cross-class skills these skills are treated as class skills while the incanter has their journal. Additionally any skill points spent in the skill provide 1 rank while they possess their journal. This may be taken an unlimited number of times.
    • Packrat (Ex): Begining at the 3rd level, the incanter learns to maximize their storage space. The incanter may use either their strength or intelligence score for determining how much they can carry and add 1 per odd class level to the ability score for determining carry capacity.
    • Living Library(Su): The incanter has learned a new mnemonic method allowing them to internalize their journal no longer requiring a physical journal, however they may make one if they wish. Additionally knowledge becomes one skill, all ranks spent in different knowledge skills are put in this knowledge skill. Any ranks that would exceed your max ranks in a skill are returned to your pool of unspent skill points. IE a incanter with 23 ranks in 3 knowledges and 15 ranks in two others would now have 75 skill points to spend in addition to the skill points for reaching level 20.


    Spoiler: Ingredient Values
    Show
    Ingredient Values
    Code:
                                   Scarcity Rating
    Scarcity         0    1      2      3      4      5      6      7      8      9      10      11      12      13
    ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
    Aberration   5g
    Animal 1c
    Construct 5g
    Dragon 
    Elemental 
    Fey 
    Giant 
    Humanoid 
    Magical 
       Beasts
    Monstrous 
       Humanoid
    Ooze 
    Outsider 
    Plant 
    Undead 
    Vermin
    Scarcity Modifiers
    Difficulty:
    Harvest Quality:
    Size: The creatures size plays a large part in the difficulty of finding and even harvesting creatures. Medium and small creatures are common enough their size has no effect on scarcity. Large and Tiny creatures have a scarcity 1 higher then normal. Huge and diminutive creatures have a scarcity 2 higher then normal.
    Last edited by Lanth Sor; 2018-05-18 at 07:02 PM.

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  24. - Top - End - #84
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Jan 2013

    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Incanter Rituals

    Spoiler
    Show
    Level 1 Rituals
    • Absolve the Weak - Transfer HP damage
    • Affliction of Gluttony - Sicken target
    • Bloodstone - Create grenade
    • Boneform Item - Create basic items
    • Breaker - Ignore DR
    • Brume of Broken Blades - Damage armour, weapons
    • Burden of Virtue - Transfer negative effects to self
    • Dazzling Fetor - Dazzling mists
    • Entwined Knowledge - Share skills
    • Fettered Mind - Daze or slow creature
    • Flesh Forged - Natural Armour
    • Hematic Theft - Temp HP and damage
    • Life's Wrappings - Protect ally inside cocoon
    • Lunging Cadaver - Block attack
    • Network of Suffering Surrendered - Poison and Disease protection
    • Rush of Blood - Improve speed
    • Sap Strength - Fatigue targets
    • Shifting Spirit - Teleport enemy
    • Shroud Self, Minor - Minor stat boosts
    • Skills of the Fallen - Gain skills
    • Slithering Soul - Cloud Mind
    • Soul Counter - Gain AoOs
    • Streaked Countenance - Intimidate
    • Striker's Gift - Damage boost
    • Tangle of Blood - Entangle, harm target
    • Transfer Resistance - Gain resistance of sacrifice
    • Weaken Flesh - Remove Natural Armour


    Level 2 Rituals
    • Anguish and Agony - Retaliation when struck
    • Blood Calls to Blood - Scrying
    • Bloodforce, Lesser - Dominate Sacrifice
    • Bloodseeking Blade - Keen, Wounding weapon
    • Bloodspell - Draw spells from sacrified creature
    • Bolstered Blood - Energy Resistance
    • Divine Presence, Lesser - Summon outsider
    • Entwined Bodies - Share physical abilities
    • Evacuting Touch - Damage will saves
    • Forge Lifebond - Share damage taken
    • Gift of Anguish - Transfer negative effects to enemy
    • Grasping Hands - Turn corpse into ally
    • Halo Strike - AoE damage
    • Healer's Warning - Aware of single ally, condition affecting him
    • Hematic Burst - Con and HP Damage
    • Hematic Shield - Immune to blood affecting
    • Lift the Mind - Boost mental abilities
    • Linked Lifeforce - Temp HP
    • Network of Hardened Skin - Sacred AC bonuses
    • Rotten Miasma - Sickening Cloud
    • Rush of Blood, Greater - Speed, Attack boost
    • Shackled Thoughts - Slow target
    • Shadows of Sin - Blind and Deafen
    • Speed of the Fallen - Gain movement modes
    • Strengthen the Body - Boost physical abilities
    • Weapon of Blood - Lifesteal Weapon


    Level 3 Rituals
    • Barrier of Blood - Physical DR
    • Bloodwalk - Teleport
    • Bone Web - Trap enemy in bone lattice
    • Boneform Gear - Create arms and armour
    • Bound Soul Blade - Enhance weapon
    • Cadaver Column - Turn corpse into ally
    • Call Boon, Lesser - Summon item
    • Chained Body - Damage creature if it attacks
    • Entwined Spirits - Share mental abilities
    • Feats of the Fallen - Gain feat
    • Flesh of the Fallen - Immune to disease and poison
    • Fog of Lost Souls - Fear cloud
    • Impregnable Spirit - Fortitude boost, Mettle, Fortification
    • Network of Life's Gift - Fast Healing for allies
    • Permeable Ward - Damage resistance, penalty
    • Pinioned - Mental status effects against enemy
    • Precognitive Awareness - Reflex saves, Evasion
    • Reflexive Retribution - Return some damage to the attacker
    • Rush of Blood, Greater - Speed and extra attacks
    • Sacrificial Knowledge - Grant Ritual Knowledge
    • Scything Bane - Retaliation Aura
    • Seeping Spirit - Damage aura
    • Sickness in the Body - Inflict diseases
    • Siphon Spirit - Ability Damage
    • Stolen Knowledge - Gain knowledge
    • Stolen Spirit - Spell Turning
    • Unbreakable Body - Will saves, Mettle, Mindblank


    Level 4 Rituals
    • Ability Transfer - Transfer class ability
    • Blood Coffin - Trap enemy in coffin, Save or Die
    • Bloodforce - Dominate Sacrifice
    • Bloodmist - Become deadly cloud
    • Entwined Senses - Share vision, senses
    • Fear Ward - Retaliate, shake enemy
    • Finality - Deal half hp in damage
    • Flesh Lance - Piercing Line attack
    • Healer's Viewing - Awareness of allies, conditions affecting them
    • Heavenly Gift - Temp HP, healing, morale bonuses
    • Leeching Aura - Damage and temp HP
    • Momentary Repentance - Dominate Evil
    • Network of Sheltered Soul - DR/Good
    • Shattering Sphere - Remove damage resistance
    • Shelter in my Soul - Store ally in self
    • Shield of the Soul - Wrap ally in cocoon
    • Shroud Self - Alter Self
    • Size of the Fallen - Change size
    • Soul Siphon - Level drain
    • Spirit Manacles - Pin creatures together, force shared damage
    • Subsume Essence - Gain SLA
    • Transfer Resistance, Greater - Gain all resistances of sacrifice
    • Withered Rose - Damage over Time, nausea
    • Woven Tapestry - Heal ally, dazzle enemies


    Level 5 Rituals
    • Barrier of Blood, Greater - Physical DR
    • Blood Aflame - Fast Healing
    • Blood Dancer - Chain attacks
    • Blood Rain - Summon blood storm
    • Bloodform Champion - Summon armour and weapons
    • Bloodseeking Blade, Greater - Keen, wounding, coup de grace weapon
    • Bloodspell, Greater - Draw spells from sacrified creature
    • Call Boon - Summon expensive item
    • Death Ripple - AoE Save or Die
    • Disfiguring Death - Kill creature, AoE damage
    • Divine Presence - Summon outsider
    • Entwined Weaving - Share caster levels
    • Extract Essence - Gain a temporary level
    • Flood of Life - Gain temporary HP and Con
    • Forgotten Heritage - Polymorph self
    • Hematic Burst, Greater - Con and HP damage
    • Justice - Force duel
    • Network of Harm Undone - Elemental Resistance
    • Ritual Held - Animate Dead
    • Sacrificial Knowledge, Greater - Grant Ritual Knowledge
    • Sorrow's Burden - Shake and Slow target
    • Spirit Aura - See all living creatures
    • Spiritual Locus - Word of Recall
    • Sympathetic Pain - AoE shaken
    • Vitality Leech - Temp HP
    • Weaver's Life - Transfer damage to enemy, heal ally


    Level 6 Rituals
    • Ascension - Flight, Plane Shift
    • Bless the Meek - Bonus to attack, damage, armour
    • Blood Wall - Create wall
    • Bloodforce, Mass - Create Swarms
    • Body of Blood - Polymorph self
    • Darting Defense - Block physical attacks
    • Despoiling Miasma - Burning, acidic, cloud
    • Entwined Magic - Transfer spell buffs
    • Face Thy Punishments - Trap target in sphere
    • Frozen Terror - AoE Paralysis
    • Network of Magic Sundered - Spell resistance
    • Restitution - Reflect attack to generator
    • Rite of Immortality - Prevent aging
    • Shatterspirit - Save or Die
    • Silted Water - Poison area
    • Soul Coffin - Self resurrection
    • Splintered Soul - Fission, stun target
    • Stolen Knowledge, Greater - Gain knowledge
    • Stolen Spirit, Greater - Greater Spell Turning
    • Swirling Lives - Massive healing


    Level 7 Rituals
    • Blooded Land - Sympathy spell
    • Bloodforce, Greater - Dominate Sacrifice
    • Call Boon, Greater - Summon artefact
    • Damn the Soul - Send enemy to hell
    • Divine Presence, Greater - Summon outsider
    • Entwined Lifeforce - Share feats
    • Fall of Lifeblood - Storm of negative energy
    • Ingest Soul - Gain extraordinary quality
    • Judgement - AoE Save or Die
    • Lifeblood Shield - Absorb, deal, damage
    • Network of Souls - Share health amongst all allies
    • Prayer Focus - Invulnerable
    • Purge Thy Soul - Teleport target to Celestia
    • Radiance - Sunbeam, AoE blind
    • Repel Kinfolk - Protect against creature type
    • Rotten Flesh Fortress - Build fortress
    • Soul Portal - Planar travel
    • Soul's Shards - Trigger many rituals
    • Storm of Silent Shadows - Level drain fog
    • Trammel the Soul - Save or Die
    Last edited by Lanth Sor; 2018-05-17 at 12:50 PM.

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  25. - Top - End - #85
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Stratovarius's Avatar

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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    When can we expect to see the class?

    Also, pdf is up to Helfarch Ravager mechanics complete.

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    after current base class challenge is done. Dec 15 is current due date. I think i have to wait until voting done.

    Is it intentional that there is no Caster Level or caveat allowing ritual wielders to make magic items
    Last edited by Lanth Sor; 2017-12-07 at 07:36 PM.

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  27. - Top - End - #87
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Stratovarius's Avatar

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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Crafting is easily possible in their home setting, which is why it wasn't a focus of the system. 3rd edition crafting is mostly broken, anyway, so I stay away from it.

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    For compatibility sake, I would just add a caveat, "If using base crafting rules necromant/ritual-wielder/etc count as caster level" that way it doesn't mess your original intent while allowing backward compatibility.

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  29. - Top - End - #89
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Stratovarius's Avatar

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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Still need to remember to add the comment about crafting.

    Hunger prestige class complete and added to the Tome.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Stratovarius's Avatar

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    Sep 2014

    Default Re: Tome of Ritual Magic [Alternate Magic System]

    Immolator Apostate and Lifeweaver classes added to the Tome of Ritual Magic. That's 12 of the 17 prestige classes the system has.

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