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Thread: Eric Greenhilt

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    Default Eric Greenhilt

    What's the reason behind Eric Greenhilt being in the LG afterlife? He certainly died too early to have deliberately made any moral or ethical stand in his short life.

    My theory is that it's a combination of two things...
    1. It was expedient for storytelling purposes; the Giant wanted a reunion between Roy and Eric and it was the easiest way to do so.
    2. The Giant, being a quasi-SJW (for the lack of a better term), didn't think it'd be "right" for Eric to end up in the TN afterlife or elsewhere along with the implications of such. Could've been an interesting commentary on the D&D afterlife, but I suppose it also might've delved a bit more into real-life religion and philosophy than what the Giant (or the audience) would be comfortable with.

    Was this explained elsewhere?

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Considering most of the rest of the family is LG, maybe he already was aligned that way enough to get into Mount Celestia. Or they just decided that's where his mother was likely to end up.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    It took me like 15 minutes, but I finally tracked down the Giant's relevant post on the matter.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...3#post17213673

    My favorite part is the marauding githyanki doctors.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2014-09-04 at 06:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    It took me like 15 minutes, but I finally tracked down the Giant's relevant post on the matter.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...3#post17213673

    My favorite part is the marauding githyanki doctors.
    Thanks for tracking that down!

    Wow... that... was surprisingly close to the actual answer.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by SpellthiefOfUr View Post
    Thanks for tracking that down!

    Wow... that... was surprisingly close to the actual answer.
    As the giant pointed out, its rather difficult to come up with an adequate answer that doesn't freak everyone the heck out in some way. "he stays there because his mom is there and he stays until he is ready to move on." is pretty much the only way to make the afterlife actually, you know, happy for someone. Not that I think an Infant would be likely to care all that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    As the giant pointed out, its rather difficult to come up with an adequate answer that doesn't freak everyone the heck out in some way. "he stays there because his mom is there and he stays until he is ready to move on." is pretty much the only way to make the afterlife actually, you know, happy for someone. Not that I think an Infant would be likely to care all that much.
    An afterlife that is both supposed to be happy and allow you to still have meaningful experiences *must* be more complicated than you go someplace nice, because one of the things that makes experiences meaningful is that they can change you enough to alter what would make you happy. Even if it's just by accumulated boredom. Afterlife schemes rarely address this in much detail, and those that try usually ditch the accumulating meaningful experiences part (by reincarnating you without memories, or periodically erasing them in the river Lethe, or when you awake for each new day of glorious battle, or by insisting you will be so transformed as to be *unable* to change to become unhappy). Being able to move up the mountain at least acknowledges the issue exists.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    How in the world does the pejorative social justice warrior factor into where Eric Gre- You know what, never mind.

    The concept of an alignment-defined afterlife is weird and troubling, so the Giant just threw something up where everyone's happy and avoiding the fridge logic.
    Last edited by oppyu; 2014-09-05 at 07:21 AM.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Regardless of Word of Rich, I still have occasional suspicions that real-Eric wasn't really there. Mainly because Roy's Archon didn't know about him.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by allenw View Post
    Regardless of Word of Rich, I still have occasional suspicions that real-Eric wasn't really there. Mainly because Roy's Archon didn't know about him.
    Besides the fact that Roy's Archon has never been shown to be particularly knowledgeable about Roy's personal life, what purpose would having Eric not be Eric serve, other than to create a plot thread unlikely to see resolution?
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Plus, Roy's Archon didn't appear to know about Enrique either--does that mean he was a fake?

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Where should he have went?
    Innocent, pure, open minded, *insert more generic adjectives that comment on the psychology of a developing mind*

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelbiuj View Post
    Where should he have went?
    Innocent, pure, open minded, *insert more generic adjectives that comment on the psychology of a developing mind*
    Theres an argument to be made for the true neutral afterlife, since infants are, as a rule, not able to tell the difference between right and wrong, and lack the ability to actually act on such distinctions most of the time anyway. Not like cats.
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    I suppose someplace more Neutral Good-ish is possible. Eric's a toddler, or a little older, so he's partially socialized.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Plus, Roy's Archon didn't appear to know about Enrique either--does that mean he was a fake?
    I get off all trains when the conductor says "Regardless of Word of the Author..."
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I get off all trains when the conductor says "Regardless of Word of the Author..."
    well yeah, that's a bit of a hint that you may not be operating entirely off of factual information... Not that Rich hasn't tried to deceive us before, but im skeptical that he would outright lie to us when hes under no obligation to indicate he even knew there was a question.
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Without The Giant's explanation I'd have said it is because his mother's afterlife wouldn't be paradise without her lost son.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    I don't think that it -always- work like that, becouse it shouldn't be true that a child son of a CE mother must go to CE afterlive.

    However, there is one think that we should considerate: the decision of what afterlife you can go is not absolute, but there is an intelligent being making it. So, when the deva has make the interview to Eric's mother, the deva thought that Eric should go to LE afterlife. And he's right.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Synesthesy View Post
    I don't think that it -always- work like that, becouse it shouldn't be true that a child son of a CE mother must go to CE afterlive.

    However, there is one think that we should considerate: the decision of what afterlife you can go is not absolute, but there is an intelligent being making it. So, when the deva has make the interview to Eric's mother, the deva thought that Eric should go to LE afterlife. And he's right.
    See Kish's comment above about ignoring word of Author.
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Synesthesy View Post
    I don't think that it -always- work like that, becouse it shouldn't be true that a child son of a CE mother must go to CE afterlive.
    Why not?

    ("Because it's not fair" is not a meaningful answer; the OotS cosmology has no obligation to be fair.)
    LE afterlife
    Guessing that's a typo.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    ("Because it's not fair" is not a meaningful answer; the OotS cosmology has no obligation to be fair.)
    Isn't it? It is a construction of sentient beings, many of whom are obsessed with some kind of standards to the point of being willing to spend eternity judging souls on adherence to them. If the OotS cosmology is not at least close to fair, why did the good and lawful powers ever agree to it in the first place, given that it makes that judgment activity they feel is worth spending eternity doing meaningless any time it is not?

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
    Isn't it? It is a construction of sentient beings, many of whom are obsessed with some kind of standards to the point of being willing to spend eternity judging souls on adherence to them. If the OotS cosmology is not at least close to fair, why did the good and lawful powers ever agree to it in the first place, given that it makes that judgment activity they feel is worth spending eternity doing meaningless any time it is not?
    Because as soon as you bring "fair" into it, you run into such problems as "well, the guy was raised by evil parents in an evil city to do evil things, so is it fair to punish him for being evil?" and "Is it fair to separate children from their familes?" and "Should characters who died without a saving throw get to go back to life?"

    Life isn't fair. Neither is death. But can you think of a particularly compelling reason that it wouldn't be "fair" for a baby hobgoblin to go to a lawful evil afterlife where their parents are allowed to burn, pillage, and wage war all day, then come home to feed the kid and play blocks with him?
    Last edited by Keltest; 2014-09-06 at 06:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
    Isn't it? It is a construction of sentient beings,
    Citation needed.
    many of whom are obsessed with some kind of standards to the point of being willing to spend eternity judging souls on adherence to them.
    Further, for the claim you're making, you need to prove that the OotS cosmology is designed by and for the benefit of primarily Good entities. You can't prove it was designed by anyone not named Rich Burlew, but if your underlying assumption that either the gods or powerful outsiders made the rules from an in-setting perspective was correct, your claim that "therefore it must be fair" would be no better than, "therefore it must favor the evil (gods/outsiders/whichever entities you're arguing for), or why would they have agreed to it?"

    If the gods the comic's shown designed the cosmology, then frankly, I see very little reason to expect fairness to even get a look-in; all the OotS gods, whether nominally "good" or "evil," seem primarily concerned with advancing their own power and indulging their egos. But even if it was designed by outsiders, celestials, modrons, slaadi, and fiends, instead of gods, your argument is insupportable without some reason to presume it was actually a matter of "the celestials designed it and the fiends didn't have a say."
    Last edited by Kish; 2014-09-06 at 06:23 PM.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
    Isn't it? It is a construction of sentient beings, many of whom are obsessed with some kind of standards to the point of being willing to spend eternity judging souls on adherence to them. If the OotS cosmology is not at least close to fair, why did the good and lawful powers ever agree to it in the first place, given that it makes that judgment activity they feel is worth spending eternity doing meaningless any time it is not?
    Because fruit flies got a raw deal, and they weren't the only ones. (I wonder if and how obscure this quote is).
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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Plus, Roy's Archon didn't appear to know about Enrique either--does that mean he was a fake?
    YUSH

    This is my new headcanon.

    Xykon disguised himself as Enrique so he could get Roy's mother to tell him things about Roy.
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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Because fruit flies got a raw deal, and they weren't the only ones. (I wonder if and how obscure this quote is).
    I donno, but I like just referenced it in the 961 discussion thread independently, so high five.
    Last edited by DaggerPen; 2014-09-07 at 02:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by DaggerPen View Post
    I donno, but I like just referenced it in the 961 discussion thread independently, so high five.
    Which was a little weird. I saw that and went "wait, didn't someone just say that?"
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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by DaggerPen View Post
    I donno, but I like just referenced it in the 961 discussion thread independently, so high five.
    I noticed it... What's it from exactly?
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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    The diner scene in Start of Darkness.

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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Citation needed.
    Daaaang, that's cold.

    I know the designers never had the most coherent of cosmologies in place due to the whole pastiches of pastiches angle, and Rich has had to make the best he could with it, but... Ouch.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2014-09-07 at 03:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Eric Greenhilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Daaaang, that's cold.

    I know the designers never had the most coherent of cosmologies in place due to the whole pastiches of pastiches angle, and Rich has had to make the best he could with it, but... Ouch.
    I think hes talking about in-universe, where we don't actually know the gods created the afterlife system.
    Quote Originally Posted by choken1 View Post
    You should hear about the time when somebody took his hammer.

    (Let's just say that deaths, mutilation and cross dressing is involved.)

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