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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BelGareth's Avatar

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    Default Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Spoiler: Preface
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    Recently I saw a classless system, but it was disappointing with the whole mechanical side of it. I have always thought a classless system was a great idea, but never saw a good way of doing it, and so, my brewing side of me thought and thought, and I came up with the idea that maybe, just maybe, I could put something together, with something along the lines of what I was looking for.

    A way of leveling the play field. Where everyone has the same amount building points, and characters should seemingly be balanced.

    Hopefully.

    That was the plan, not sure if I got anywhere near it.

    I started out by listing down which class had what, and assigning a point to each aspect. Starting with the base of each class, HD, BAB, saves, skill points and proficiency's.

    Initially I started out with an interval of 5's between values, hoping that such a big difference would allow the spellcasting abilities to be priced accordingly. While this created a seemingly good scale of how each class is represented (which in and of itself is interesting in this process, as each class is not made the same), it failed to show a distinct difference between the spellcasters and the melee'ers.

    So thinking on it, I though the best, easiest way, must be the simplest. Occam's Razor, so to speak.

    So I whittled everything down to the lowest points possible, understanding that many of the facets of the class chasis are mere feats, I took that value and applied that to the basic ability of a bonus feat.

    So below is what I got from the SRD base classes.

    If you go this far, blessings be unto you, and thanks for reading.


    CLASSLESS

    "You classless heathen."

    This is my humble attempt to create a 3.5 classless system.

    Every level, each player is given a certain amount of points to pick and choose what characteristics they want when they level. So they can choose what Hit dice, how many skill points, how good their BAB and Saves are, and anything else.

    Point system
    Points per level Gameplay
    14+3 at 1st level Gritty
    18+3 at 1st level Low
    22+3 at 1st level Average
    26+3 at 1st level High
    30+3 at 1st level Epic

    Spoiler: Basics
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    At each level, the player is given an amount of Character Points (CP) that they get to spend on what ever they want. At 1st level they get a bonus 3 CP to cover their proficiency's in weapons and armor. Characters do not gain a feat at 1st and every 3rd level as normal, nor do they gain a +1 stat bonus at 4th and every 4 levels beyond that. A maximum of 2 feats may be purchased at every level.

    HD Points
    D4 0
    D6 1
    D8 2
    D10 3
    D12 4

    Skills Points Starting class skills*
    2 0 10
    4 1 15
    6 2 25
    8 3 30

    *This includes all knowledge's taken individually, and only applies at first level. The player chooses an amount of class skills up to their maximum.

    BAB Points
    Poor 0
    Medium 1
    Good 2

    Saves* Points
    1 good 0
    2 good 1
    3 good 2

    *Player chooses the good saves at every level.

    Weapon Proficiency's Points
    None 0
    Simple 1
    Martial 2
    Monk Weapons* 2

    * = This includes all simple weapons.

    Armor Proficiency's Points
    None 0
    Light* 1
    Medium* 2
    Heavy** 3

    * Includes shields
    ** Does not include Tower shield.

    Weapon and Armor proficiency's include the previous iteration, as in, Martial weapon proficiency's includes simple weapon proficiency's, so there is no need to take both. In addition, these are only required to be taken at 1st level, however, if you are upgrading at a later level, you may simply purchase the ability like normal.

    Spoiler: Class Chassis's
    Show

    Class Points Total with class abilities
    Barbarian 12 18
    Bard 8 32
    Cleric 8 28
    Druid 8 29
    Fighter 11 13
    Monk 7 25
    Paladin 11 23
    Ranger 10 23
    Rogue 7 13
    Sorcerer 0 21
    Wizard 0 22



    Spoiler: Spellcasting
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    Ability Points Special
    1 cantrip 0.5 You gain 1 cantrip known and 1 cantrip spell slot.
    Prepared
    1 spell learned 2.5 You gain 1 spell in your spellbook of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 3 spell's of a lower level.
    1 Spell per day 5 You gain 1 spell slot up to the maximum spell level you are able to cast, as long as you are able to cast at least 3 spell's of a lower level.
    Spontaneous
    1 spell known 5 You gain 1 spell known of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 3 spell's of a lower level.
    1 Spell per day 2.5 You gain 1 spell slot up to the maximum spell level you are able to cast, as long as you are able to cast at least 3 spell's of a lower level.

    The maximum spell level you are able to learn and cast is limited to 1/2 your character level.

    When you gain your 1st cantrip or orison, you must choose a mental statistic, this determines your bonus spells per day and the DC's of your spells.

    You may not qualify for arcane spells with divine spells and vice versa. If you want to know both arcane and divine, you must purchase separate spell lists.


    Spoiler: Invocations
    Show

    Ability Points Special
    Detect Magic Invocation 2
    1 Invocation known* 6 You gain 1 Invocation of any grade that you are able to cast, as long as you know 3 invocations of a lesser grade.

    * = If this is your first Invocation, you learn 1 Least invocation.

    The maximum grade of invocation you can cast is limited to the following:

    Level Grade
    1-5 Least
    7-10 Lesser
    11-15 Greater
    16-20 Dark


    Spoiler: Infusions & Craft Reserve
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    Ability Points Special
    1 Infusion known* 1 You gain 1 infusion known of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 1 infusion of a lower level.
    1 Infusion per day 3 You gain 1 infusion per day of any level that you can cast, as long as you can cast at least 1 infusion of a lower level.
    +1 level of craft Reserve 3

    * = If this is your first Infusion, you learn 1 1st level infusion.

    The maximum level infusion you can learn is limited to the following:

    Level Max level Infusion
    1-2 1st
    3-4 2nd
    5-7 3rd
    8-10 4th
    11-13 5th
    14-20 6th


    Spoiler: Maneuvers
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    Ability Points Special
    Warblade Recovery system & readied maneuvers
    1 maneuver or stance known 3 You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Warblade list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.
    Crusader Recovery system & readied maneuvers*
    1 maneuver or stance known 2.5 You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Crusader list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.
    Swordsage Recovery system & readied maneuvers
    1 maneuver or stance known 2 You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Swordsage list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.
    * = Until you have a total of 3 known maneuvers, you maneuvers are only usable 1/encounter.

    The maximum maneuver or stance level you are able to learn is limited to 1/2 your character level.


    Spoiler: Soul Binding
    Show

    Ability Points Requirement Special
    Soul Binding (1 Vestige) 5 May take again at 8th, 14th & 20th levels.
    Soul Binding level +1 2 Soul Binding (1 Vestige) Determines the level of vestige you can bind.*

    * = See ToM pg 9



    Things to do

    Base Classes
    Barbarian
    Bard
    Cleric
    Druid
    Fighter
    Monk
    Paladin
    Ranger
    Rogue
    Sorcerer
    Wizard


    Archivist
    Artificer
    Beguiler
    Binder

    Dragon Shaman
    Dragonfire Adept
    Dread Necromancer
    Duskblade
    Factotum
    Favored Soul
    Healer
    Hexblade
    Knight
    Marshal
    Ninja
    Samurai
    Shaman
    Shadowcaster
    Shugenja
    Sohei
    Spellthief
    Spirit Shaman
    Swashbuckler
    Truenamer
    Warlock
    Warmage
    Wu Jen


    Incarnate
    Soulborn
    Totemist

    Crusader
    Swordsage
    Warblade


    Ardent
    Divine Mind
    Erudite
    Lurk
    Psion
    Psychic Rogue
    Psychic Warrior
    Souknife
    Wilder

    Prestige Classes
    Bleh, too much to do to think about these

    Helping
    If you would like to help, below are the guidelines that I am using:

    • Anything that can be replicated with a feat costs 1 (which just reminded me to update something)
    • Anything that is slightly more powerful than a feat is 2 (like Countersong, and Trackless step)
    • Anything that is a solid class ability is a 4 (like Aura of courage, and Wild shape)
    • ACF's that replace an ability, cost the same as the replaced ability.
    • Abilities that replace a spell slot, cost the same.
    • ACF's that grant other class abilities should be ignored.


    Spoiler: Abbreviation Key
    Show

    UA = Unearthed Arcana
    CA = Complete Arcane
    CC = Complete Champion
    CM = Complete Mage
    CS = Cityscape, (online web enhancement)
    CV = Champions of Valor, (online web enhancement)
    CW = Complete Warrior
    DrM = Dragon Magic
    DS = Dungeonscape
    DU = Drow of the Underdark
    EC = "Expanded Classes" (online: 1, 2, 3, 4)
    ECS = Eberron Campaign Setting[/i[
    ECR = Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
    EoE = Exemplars of Evil - thanks Nanshork
    FB = Frostburn
    MoE = Magic of Eberron
    MoI = Magic of Incarnum
    PHB 2 = Players Handbook II
    PlH = Planar Handbook
    RD = Races of Destiny
    RDr = Races of the Dragon
    RE = Races of Eberron
    RS = Races of Stone
    RW = Races of the Wild
    SSt = Sandstorm
    SW = Stormwrack


    Spoiler: Changelog
    Show

    2014-10-24, 2:17 PM - Added Maneuvers, Crusader, Warblade, & Swordsage.

    2014-10-24, 11:48 AM - Changed spontaneous line x abilities from 2 points to 4.

    2014-10-24, 9:24 AM - Fixed the Artificer, tweaked spells known/pre day requirement from 1 to 3. Removed bonus spells from Domain ability.

    2014-10-22, 3:22 PM - Added Warlock, Wu Jen, Warmage, Dread Necromancer, Archivist, Dragonfire Adept, & Artificer. Added Invocations.

    2014-10-22, 11:13 AM - Moved around some tables, added the Duskblade, Dragon Shaman, Beguiler, and Knight (courtesy of Ebon Dragon), changed AC bonus from 4 to 2 points.

    2014-10-18, 2:28 PM - Updated spellcasting system.

    2014-10-17, 3:11 PM - Finished PHB classes and ACF's, updated Master list.

    2014-10-17, 10:43 AM - Added Fighter ACF's, updated Master list.

    2014-10-17, 10:14 AM - Added monk weapon list in proficiencies.

    2014-10-17, 09:52 AM - Added List of things to do.

    2014-10-16, 03:44 PM - Finished Druid ACF's and added them, updated Master list. Started working on Fighter.

    2014-10-16, 03:07 PM - Changed spellcasting to be truly classes, without predetermined spell lists, and more streamlined.

    2014-10-15, 01:00 PM - Added, Barbarian, Bard and Cleric ACF's, started working on Druid.

    2014-09-05, 02:55 PM - Created the project.
    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-24 at 05:08 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BelGareth's Avatar

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    Default Base Classes

    Spoiler: PHB & ACF's
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    Spoiler: Any
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Bonus Feat 1
    +1 Ability 4

    Spoiler: Barbarian
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Damage Reduction 1/- 4 7th level May take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 7th.
    Fast Movement 2 Does not stack
    Greater Rage 4 Rage 3/day
    Improved Uncanny dodge 4 Uncanny Dodge
    Indomitable Will 4 14th level, & Greater Rage
    Mighty Rage 4 20th level & Tireless Rage
    Tireless Rage 4 Greater Rage
    Rage 1/day 4 May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have.
    Trap Sense +1 2 3rd level May take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 3rd.
    Uncanny Dodge 4 2nd level
    Berserker Strength 4 Counts as normal rage for prereqs, (PHB 2, p 33)
    Incarnum Speed 2 (MOI pg 43)
    Incarnum Defense 4 6th level (MOI pg 43)
    Incarnum Rage 4 Rage 3/day (MOI pg 43)
    Fast Charge 2 (CV pg 40)
    Awesome Charge 4 2nd level (CV pg 40)
    Raging Vigor 4 6th level (CV pg 40)
    Ferocity 1/day 4 May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have.
    Greater Ferocity 4 Ferocity 3/day (CS, web)
    Shifting Stance 4 14th level, & Greater Ferocity (CS, web)
    Relentless Ferocity 4 Greater Ferocity (CS, web)
    Unstoppable Ferocity 4 20th level & Relentless Ferocity (CS, web)
    Mountain Rage 1/day 4 (RS pg 150) counts as normal rage for prereqs. May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have.
    Lesser Fortification 4 2nd level
    Damage Reduction 2/Adamantium 4 6th level May take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 7th.
    Reckless Charge 4 2nd level (RD pg 159)
    Insightful Rage 2 4th level, Rage feature (RD pg 159)
    Two Handed Strike 1 (RD pg 159)
    Portal Sense 2 3rd level (PlH pg 28)
    Menacing Rage 4 Rage 3/day (PlH pg 28)
    Spell Sense +1 2 3rd level (CM pg 35) May take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 3rd.
    Spiritual Totem: Bear 4 (CC pg 46)
    Spiritual Totem: Eagle 2 (CC pg 46)
    Spiritual Totem: Fox 2 (CC pg 46)
    Spiritual Totem: Lion 4 (CC pg 46)
    Spiritual Totem: Wolf 2 (CC pg 46)
    Streetfighter 4 7th level (CS, web)
    Streetfighter, Improved 4 Streetfighter (CS, web) (counts as 10th level ability)
    Streetfighter, Advanced 4 Improved Streetfighter (CS, web) (counts as 13th level ability)
    Streetfighter, Greater 4 Advanced Streetfighter (CS, web) (counts as 16th level ability)
    Streetfighter, Master 4 Greater Streetfighter (CS, web) (counts as 19th level ability)
    Spiritual Totem, Improved: Bear 4 Spiritual Totem: Bear (CC pg 46)
    Spiritual Totem, Improved: Eagle 2 Spiritual Totem: Eagle (CC pg 46)
    Spiritual Totem, Improved: Fox 2 Spiritual Totem: Fox (CC pg 46)
    Spiritual Totem, Improved: Lion 4 Spiritual Totem: Lion (CC pg 46)
    Spiritual Totem, Improved: Wolf 2 Spiritual Totem: Wolf (CC pg 46)
    Trapkiller 4 (DS pg 8)
    Uncanny Bravery 4 2nd level (DrM pg 14)
    View Spirit World 2 (CC pg 46)
    Whirling Frenzy 1/day 4 (UA, p66) counts as normal rage for prereqs. May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have.
    Greater Whirling Frenzy 4 Whirling Frenzy 3/day (UA, p66)
    Mighty Whirling Frenzy 4 20th level & Tireless Rage (UA, p66)

    Spoiler: Bard
    Show

    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Bardic Knowledge 4
    Countersong 2
    Evasion 4 2nd level
    Fascinate 2
    Aura of Courage 4 4th level
    Inspire Competence 2
    Inspire Courage +1 4 May take an additional time at 8th level and for every additional 6 levels thereafter.
    Inspire Greatness 4 9th level
    Inspire Heroics 4 15th level
    Mass Suggestion 4 18th level
    Song of Freedom 4 12th level
    Suggestion 4 6th level
    Bardic Knack 4 (PHB 2, pg 35)
    Bardic Sage 4 Spellcasting (UA, pg 49)
    Inspire Defiance 2 (RS pg 147)
    Phantasmal Song 4 4th level (RS pg 147)
    Healing Hymn 2 (CC, pg 47)
    Hymn of Fortification 2 (CC, pg 47)
    Inspire Awe 4 4th level (DrM, pg 13)
    Inspire Hatred 4 9th level (EoE, pg 21)
    Inspire Turning 2 (ECR, pg 206)
    Loresong 4 (DS, pg 8)
    Mimicking Song 2 (DS, pg 8)
    Planar Inspiration 2 (PlH, pg 29)
    Planar Dissonance 4 6th level (PlH, pg 29)
    Planar Discordance 4 12th level (PlH, pg 29)
    Repel Domination 4 6th level (ECR, pg 206)
    Spellbreaker Song 2 (CM, pg 35)
    Inspire Arcana 2 (RDr, pg 110)
    Undead Bardic Knowledge 4 (ECR, pg 206)

    Spoiler: Cleric
    Show

    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Turn undead 4
    Domain 2 Does not grant bonus spells.
    Channel Incarnum 4 (MoI, pg 42)
    Soultouched Weapon 2 4th level (MoI, pg 42)
    Distribute Incarnum 2 9th level (MoI, pg 42)
    Spontaneous inflict/cure spells 4
    Blasphemous Incantation 4 Evil (EoE, p 20)
    Destroy Undead 4 (ECR, pg 206)
    Divine Counter Spell 4 (CM, pg 33)
    Divine Magician 2 (CM, pg 33)
    Divine Restoration 2 (DS, pg 9)
    Turn Energy 4 (RDr, pg 106)
    Energy Barrier 3 5th level (RDr, pg 106)
    Energy Sustenance 10 9th level (RDr, pg 106)
    Drow Cleric (rebuke Vermin) 4 (DU, pg 57)
    Smite Giants 4 (RS. Pg 146)
    Hammer Specialist 4 4th level (RS. Pg 146)
    Eathern Spell power 5 8th level (RS. Pg 146)
    Planar Dismissal 4 4th level (PlH, pg 30)
    Planar Domain 4 7th level (PlH, pg 30)
    Planar Banishment 4 11th level (PlH, pg 30)
    Pool of Healing 5 (CC, pg 47)
    Positive Healing 2 (ECR, pg 207)
    Spontaneous Faith healing 4 4th level (CV, pg 47)
    Imbue with spell like ability 5 6th level (CV, pg 47)
    Turn Invader 4 9th level (CV, pg 47)
    Air Master 3 (RW, pg 160)
    Air Summoning Talent 2 3rd level (RW, pg 160)
    Open the Wind Gate 2 7th level (RW, pg 160)
    Rebuke Dragons 4 (DrM, pg 14)
    Spontaneous Domain Casting 4 (PHB 2, pg 37)
    True Daylight 2 (ECR, pg 207)

    Spoiler: Druid
    Show

    Ability Points Requirements Special
    A thousand Faces 4 12th level
    Wild Empathy 2
    Wild Shape 4 5th level May take an additional time at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, & 18th levels.
    Animal Companion 2
    Wild Shape: elemental 4 16th level & Wild shape 4/day May take an additional time at 18th & 20th levels.
    Wild Shape: huge 4 Wild Shape 4/day
    Wild Shape: huge elemental 4 20th level & Wild Shape: elemental
    Wild Shape: plant 4 Wild Shape 4/day
    Wild Shape: tiny 4 Wild Shape 4/day
    Nature Sense 1
    Resist Natures Lure 2 4th level
    Woodland Stride 2
    Timeless body 4 15th level
    Trackless Step 2
    Venom Immunity 4 9th level
    Aqautic Druid 2 (SW, pg 50)
    City Shape 4 (CS, Web
    City-Soul 4 16th level & Wild shape 4/day (CS, Web
    Crowd Walker 2 (CS, Web
    Aspect of the Dragon 4 (DrM, pg 11)
    Drow Druid 4 (DU, pg 58)
    Elemental Companion 2 (CM, pg 33)
    Go to ground 2 (CS, Web
    Spontaneous Summon natures ally 4
    Bully Animal 2 4th level (RD, pg 159)
    Augmented Natures Allie 4 6th level (RD, pg 159)
    Iron Constitution 2 4th level (CS, Web
    Elemental Bond 2 (RS, pg 151)
    Earth Companion 2 6th level (RS, pg 151)
    Earth Wildshape 4 12th level (RS, pg 151)
    Phynxkin Companion 2 (DrM, pg 13)
    Resist Planar Might 2 4th level (PlH, pg 31)
    Planar Tolerance 4 9th level (PlH, pg 31)
    Counter Summoning 4 13th level (PlH, pg 31)
    Root Walker 2 (DS, pg 9)
    Sandskimmer 2 (SSt, pg 47)
    Shapeshifter 4 This may be taken and additional time at 5th, 8th, 12th and 16th .(PHB, pg 39)
    Beast Spirit 2 (RE, pg 126)
    Reckless Nature 2 4th level (RE, pg 126)
    Wild Shifting 4 Shifter Race, 5th level Acts as wild shape, (RE, og 126)
    Spontaneous Affliction 4 (EoE, pg 21)
    Spontaneous Rejuvenation 4 (PHB 2, pg 39)
    Urban companion 2 (CS, Web
    Urbane Sense 1 (CS, Web
    Voice of the City 2 (CS, Web
    Waste Vermin Wildshape 4 10th level (SSt, pg 47)

    Spoiler: Fighter
    Show

    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Fighter Training 1 Counts as a Figher level for feat requirements.
    Armor of God 1 (CC, pg 48)
    Aligned Strike 1 (CC, pg 48)
    Counter Attack 1 (PHB 2, pg 45)
    Dancing Feint 2 2nd level (CV, pg 38)
    Combat Dancing 2 8th level (CV, pg 38)
    Dragonscale Husk 3 (DrM, pg 12)
    Drow fighter 1 ((DU, pg 58)
    Dungeon Crasher 4 (DS, g 10)
    Axe Focus 1 (RS, pg 146)
    Dwarf Racial Foes 1 2nd level, Dwarf race (RS, pg 146)
    Heavy Armor expertise 1 8th level, Heavy armor proficieny (RS, pg 146)
    Elusive Attack 1 (PHB 2, pg 44)
    Blade Focus 1 (RD, pg 157)
    Main-Gauche 1 2nd level (RD, pg 157)
    Confusing Banter 1 6th level (RD, pg 157)
    Spear Focus 1 (RDr, pg 108)
    Overpowering attack 1 (PHB 2, pg 45)
    Planar Study 1 4th level (PlH, pg 32)
    Align Puissance 1 8th level (PlH, pg 32)
    Aura of Stability 1 12th level (PlH, pg 32)
    Encumbered Flight 2 Flight speed (RW, pg 161)
    Airborne Strike 1 4th level, Flight speed (RW, pg 161)
    Fast Flight 1 8th level, Flight speed (RW, pg 161)
    Resolute 1 (CC, pg 48)
    Battle Hardened 1 (RE, pg 130)
    Body as Weapon 1 4th level, Warforged race (RE, pg 130)
    Extended Intimidation 2 5th level (CV, web
    Swift Demoralization 2 9th level (CV, web

    Spoiler: Monk
    Show

    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Abundant Step 2 12th level
    AC bonus 2
    Bonus Feat 1
    Diamond Body 2 11th level
    Diamond Soul 4 Diamond Body
    Empty Body 4 19th level
    Flurry of blows 4 May take an additional 2 time's for every additional 4 levels you have. (5th & 9th levels)
    Greater flurry 4 Flurry of blows x 3
    Ki strike: (alignment) 2 Ki strike: Magic
    Ki strike: adamantine 2 Ki strike: (alignment) Choose one alignment aspect of your own.
    Ki strike: magic 2 Unarmed Strike
    Perfect Self 4 20th level & Timeless body
    Quivering Palm 4 15th level & Stunning Fist feat
    Tongue of the Sun and the Moon 4 17th level
    Still mind 2
    Timeless body 4 15th level
    Unarmed Strike 4 Improved Unarmed strike Feat May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have above 4th.
    Unarmored speed bonus 4 3rd level May take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 3rd.
    Wholeness of body 4 7th level
    slow fall 20 ft 2 2nd level May take an additional time for every 2 levels you have above 4th, granting an additional +10 ft.
    Aquatic Monk 2 2nd level May take an additional time for every 2 levels you have above 4th, granting an additional +10 ft. (SW, pg 50)
    Darkivision 2 (CV, web)
    Shadow Blend 4 7th level (CV, web)
    Walk the Shadows 2 12th level (CV, web)
    Decisive Attack 4 May take an additional 3 time's for every additional 4 levels you have. (5th, 9th, 11th levels)
    Draconic Fist 1 (DrM pg 11)
    Feign Death 4 2nd level (EoE, pg 21)
    Size Matters Not 4 7th level (RW, pg 158)
    Blur of Motion 1 6th level (CV, web)
    The Harder they Fall 4 9th level (CV, web)
    Holy/Evil Strike 2 4th level & Unarmed strike Counts as Ki strike: magic for prerequisites(CC, pg 48)
    Invisible Fist 4 2nd level May take an additional time at 9th level. (EoE, pg 21)
    Psychic Insight 4 (RE, pg 124)
    Augment Wholness of Body 2 7th level (RE, pg 124)
    Purifying Flame 1 (CV, pg 46)
    Resistance to Energy 5 2 3rd level Choose one ernergy type. May take again every 3 levels for +5 or new energy type.
    Fire Stride 2 12th level, Resistance to fire 5 (CV, pg 46)
    Aligned Soul 4 Diamond Body, 13th level Choose one of your alignments, gain SR CL+15 vs opposed alignment.
    Ki Strike (Cold Iron) 2 Ki strike (aligned)
    Prayerful Meditation 2 (CC, pg 48)
    Spine Strike 2 Skarn Race (MoI, pg 47)
    Defensive Insight 4 5th level (MoI, pg 47)
    Soulwarp Strike 1 (CM, pg 34)
    Spell Reflection 4 2nd level (CM, pg 35)
    Wall Walker 2 2nd level May take an additional time for every 2 levels you have above 4th, granting an additional +10 ft. (DS, pg 11)
    Standing Jump 2 (DS, pg 10)

    Spoiler: Paladin
    Show

    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos 2 Choose one opposed alignment to your own.
    Divine Grace 4 2nd level
    Divine Health 4 3rd level
    Lay on Hands 2
    Remove Disease 1/week 2 6th level
    Smite (alignment) 1/day 2 Choose one alignment aspect opposite to your own. You may take this an additional time for every 5 levels.
    Special Mount 2 5th level
    Turn undead 4
    Aquatic Paladin 2 5th level (Sw, pg 51)
    Everbright Blessing 4 3rd level (CV, pg 35)
    Valiant Rescue 4 4th level (CV, pg 35)
    Binding Oath 2 6th level (CV, pg 35)
    Charging Smite 2 5th level Smite (alignment) (PHB 2, pg 53)
    Bird of Prey 2 (CV, pg 36)
    Horus-Re's Glory 5 12th level (CV, pg 36)
    Curse Breaker 2 6th level (CM pg 33)
    Detect Undead 2 (ECR, pg 208)
    Divine Counter spell 4 (CM, pg 33)
    Divine Spirit 2 5th level (DS, pg 11)
    Detect Dragonblood 2 (RDr, pg 108)
    Bahamuts Blessings 2 (RDr, pg 108)
    Fearless special Mount 2 5th level (RDr, pg 108)
    Drakkensteed Mount 2 5th level (DrM, pg 13)
    Ranged Smite 2 (RW, pg 155)
    Aura of Freedom 4 4th level (RW, pg 155)
    Aura of Courage 4 4th level
    Unicorn Mount 4 5th level, any good alignment (RW, pg 155)
    Corpsestrike 2 (CV, pg 39)
    Eternal Vigor 4 4th level (CV, pg 39)
    Defend the Weak 4 4th level (CV, pg 42)
    Expanded Healing 2 10th level (CV, pg 42)
    Detect Magic 2 (CV, pg 43)
    Enemy of Strife 2 4th level (CV, pg 43)
    Restore the Weave 2 6th level (CV, pg 43)
    Righteous Fury 2 You may take this an additional time for every 5 levels. (RD, pg 160)
    Aura of Awe 4 3rd level (RD, pg 160)
    Remove Fatigue 2 6th level (RD, pg 160)
    Censure Devil 2 4th level (CV, pg 44)
    Zone of Truth 2 6th level (CV, pg 44)
    Firemane Aura 4 3rd level (CV, pg 44)
    Wild Fighting 4 4th level (CV, pg 44)
    Flying Lion 2 5th level (CV, pg 44)
    Spellshatter 2 6th level (CV, pg 45)
    Delay Poison 2 6th level (CV, pg 45)
    Pelors Blessing 4 (ECR, pg 208)
    Celestial Mount 2 6th level, Mount feature (PlH, pg 33)
    Alignment Purity 2 10th level (PlH, pg 33)
    Brilliant Strategy 4 2nd level (CV, pg 48)
    Enduring Personality 4 2nd level (CV, pg 49)
    Heroism 2 6th level (CV, pg 49)
    Heroic Rapture 6 12th level (CV, pg 49)
    Stand Fast 2 (CS, web)
    Vigilant Aid 4 3rd level (CV, pg 51)
    Awesome Smite 4 4th level, Smite feature (CV, pg 51)
    Warded Special Mount 2 Mount feature (ECR, pg 208)
    Smite Construct 2 You may take this an additional time for every 5 levels. (RE, pg 130)
    Durable Will 4 2nd level (RE, pg 130)
    Immunity to Stunning 4 3rd level Warforged (RE, pg 130)
    Tougher than Small 4 3rd level (CV, pg 51)
    Distracting Presence 4 3rd level (CV, web)
    Commanding Presence 2 10th level (CV, web)

    Spoiler: Ranger
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Animal Companion (Druid) 2
    Camouflage 2 13th level
    Combat Style 2
    Combat style mastery 2 11th level
    Favored Enemy 4 May take an additional time for every 5 levels you have.
    Hide in plain sight 4 17th level
    Improved Combat Style 2 6th level
    Woodland Stride 2
    Swift tracker 2 Track Feat
    Trackless Step 2
    Arcane Hunter 4 (CM, pg 32)
    Aqautic Ranger 2 (SW, pg 51)
    Celestial Slayer 4 Evil aligned (EoE, pg 20)
    Distracting Attack 2 (PHB 2, pg 55)
    Elven Hound Companion 2 4th level (RW, pg 155)
    Strongheart Slayer 4 10th level (RW, pg 155)
    Urban Tracking 1 (CS, web)
    Burrowing Animal Companion 2 4th level (RS, pg 149)
    Hidden Stalker 4 (CS, web)
    Subterranean Stride 2 (RDr, pg 109)
    Planar Ranger 2 (UA, pg 55)
    Planar Animal Companion 2 4th level (PlH, pg 34)
    Portal Intuition 2 (PlH, pg 34)
    Planar Tracking 2 Track feat (PlH, pg 34)
    Rival Organization 4 (CS, web)
    Sandskimmer 2 (SSt, pg 49)
    Walk in Silence 1 (CV, pg 49)
    Bane Weapon 2 6th level (CV, pg 49)
    Portal Analyses 2 8th level (CV, pg 49)
    Share Shifting 2 4th level, Shifter Race (RE, pg 128)
    Enhanced Shifting 4 9th level, Shifter Race (RE, pg 128)
    Weavespeak 1 3rd level (CV, pg 50)
    Spiritual Connection 2 (CC, pg 50)
    Spiritual Guide 2 (CC, pg 50)
    Waste Hunter 4 (SSt, pg 49)

    Spoiler: Rogue
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Bonus Feat 1
    Crippling Strike 4 Sneak attack +5d6
    Defensive Roll 4 10th level
    Improved Evasion 4 Evasion
    Opportunist 4 Sneak attack +5d6
    Skill Mastery 4 10th level
    Slippery Mind 4 10th level
    Sneak Attack +1d6 4 May take an additional time for every 2 levels you have above 1st.
    Trapfinding 2
    Antiquarian 2 (CC, pg 51)
    Breathstealer 4 Sneak Attack +5d6 (DrM, pg 11)
    Social Intuition 4 (RE, pg 121)
    Deaths Ruin 2 Sneak Attack +1d6 (CC, pg 51)
    Trap Sense +1 2 3rd level May take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 3rd.
    Disruptive Attack 4 2nd level, Sneak Attack +1d6 (PHB 2, pg 57)
    Poison Use 2
    Friends Evasion 4 (CC, pg 51)
    Frostfell Terrain Mastery 4 (FB, pg 45)
    Mettle 4 2nd level
    Mettle of Mountains 2 2nd level (RS, pg 152)
    Wild Sense 2 3rd level (RS, pg 152)
    Ranged Sneak Attack 4 (RW, pg 160)
    Thiefs Luck 2 3rd level (RW, pg 160)
    Sniping Mastery 4 10th level (RW, pg 160)
    Holy Stalker 4 Sneak Attack +5d6 (CC, pg 51)
    Lightbringer Penetrating Strike 4 Sneak Attack +1d6 (ECR, pg 208)
    Penetrating Strike 4 Sneak Attack +1d6 (DS, pg 13)
    Breach Sense 4 6th level (PlH, pg 34)
    Slip the bonds 4 10th level (PlH, pg 34)
    Quick Fingers 2 (DS, pg 13)
    Improved Flanking 2 Sneak Attack +1d6 (MoI, pg 47)
    Fortunate Reflexes 2 10th level (MoI, pg 47)
    Spell Sense 2 (CM, pg 35)
    Uncanny Bravery 4 (DrM, pg 14)

    Spoiler: Sorcerer
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Bonus Feat 1
    Aquatic Familiar 1 Spell caster (SW, pg 51)
    Divine Companion 1 (CC, pg 51)
    Arcane Insight 2 Dragonblooded Can be taken an additional 2 times for every 3 levels above 1st (4th and 7th) (RDr, pg 107)
    Drakken Familiar 1 Spell caster (DrM, pg 12)
    Arcane Earthblood 2 (RS, pg 161)
    Power of Stone 2 4th level (RS, pg 161)
    Earth Meditation 4 7th level (RS, pg 161)
    Frostfell Familiar 1 (FB, pg 45)
    Metamagic Specialist 4 spell caster (PHB 2, pg 61)
    Force Charged Energy 2 spell caster, 5th level (PlH, pg 35)
    Extraplanar Spell Penetration 4 Spell caster, 9th level (PlH, pg 35)
    Spontaneous Planar Summoning 4 spell caster, 13th level (PlH, pg 35)
    Air Elemental Familiar 2 spell caster (RW, pg 162)
    Spell on the wing 2 spell caster and flight speed (RW, pg 162)
    Spell Shield 2 spell caster (DS, pg 13)
    Wasteland familiar 1 spell caster (SSt, pg 49)

    Spoiler: Wizard
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Bonus Feat 1
    School Specialization 2 Prepared arcane caster
    Dual Specialization 2 (RE, pg 123)
    Morphic Familiar 2 Familiar (RE, pg 123)
    Override Transmutation 2 Transmutation Specialist (RE, pg 123)
    Domain Granted Power 2 (CC, pg 53)
    Drow Wizard 4 Prepared arcane caster (DU, pg 59)
    Generalist Wizardry 4 Prepared arcane caster (RW, pg 158)
    Natural Link 2 Familiar (RW, pg 158)
    Focused Specialist 4 Prepared arcane caster (CM, pg 34)
    Indisdious Illusions 4 10th level (RS, pg 148)
    Reduce Armor Hindrances 4 4th level (CV, web)
    Familiar Mount 4 Mount and Familiar features, 5th level (CV, web)
    Immediate Magic 4 (School) Specialist (PHB 2, pg 68)
    Unimpeded Magic 2 Spell caster, 6th level (PlH, pg 36)
    Planar Spellcasting 2 spell caster, 10th level (PlH, pg 36)
    Enhanced Magic 4 spell caster, 14th level (PlH, pg 36)
    Spontaneous Divination 4 Divination Specialist (CC, pg 53)
    Resistance to Energy 2 Abjuration Specialist (UA)
    Aura of Protection 2 5th level, Abjuration specialist (UA)
    Spontaneous Dispelling 4 5th level, Abjuration specialist (UA), may be taken again at 11th level.
    Rapid Summoning 2 Conjuration Specialist (UA)
    Enhanced Summoning 1 Conjuration Specialist (UA), may be taken again at 5th and 10th level.
    Spontaneous Summoning 4 Conjuration Specialist (UA)
    Enhanced Awareness 2 Divination Specialist (UA)
    Prescience 2 Divination Specialist (UA), may be taken again for every 5 levels. (5th, 10th, 15th & 20th)
    Cohort 1 6th level, Enchanter Specialist (UA)
    Social Proficiency 1 Enchanter Specialist (UA), may be taken again for every 5 additional levels beyond 5th. (5th, 10th, 15th and 20th)
    Extended Enchantments 2 Enchanter Specialist (UA)
    Energy Affinity 2 Evoker Specialist (UA)
    Energy Substitution 2 5th level, Evoker Specialist (UA), may be taken again for every 5 additional levels beyond 5th. (5th, 10th, 15th and 20th)
    Overcome Resistance 2 Evoker Specialist (UA), may be taken again for every 2 additional levels beyond 1st. (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, & 19th)
    Chains of Disbelief 2 Illusionist Specialist (UA)
    Shadow Shaper 1 Illusionist Specialist (UA), may be taken again for every 5 levels. (5th, 10th, 15th & 20th)
    Illusion Mastery 2 Illusionist Specialist (UA)
    Skeletal Minion 1 Necromancy Specialist (UA)
    Undead Apotheosis 2 5th level, Necromancy Specialist (UA), may be taken again at 10th & 20th levels)
    Enhanced Undead 2 Necromancy Specialist (UA)
    Enhanced Attribute 1 Transmuter Specialist (UA)
    Spell Versatility 2 Transmuter Specialist (UA)
    Transmutable Memory 2 Transmuter Specialist (UA)



    Spoiler: PHB 2
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    Spoiler: Duskblade
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Armored Mage 2 Arcane Casting Can be taken one additional time at fourth level, provides medium and shields
    Arcane Attunement 4 Counts as knowing and being able to cast 0th level arcane spells for the purpose of prerequisites
    Arcane Channeling 4 3rd level, Arcane spells Can be taken one additional time at 13th level
    Quick Cast 4 5th level Can be taken once every 5 subsequent levels
    Spell Power 1 6th level

    Spoiler: Beguiler
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Surprise Casting 2 May be taken again at 6th level
    Cloaked Casting 2 2nd level May be taken again at every 6th level after 2nd, maximum 20th.
    Armored Mage 2 Arcane Casting Can be taken one additional time at fourth level, provides medium and shields

    Spoiler: Dragon Shaman
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Draconic Aura +1 4 Not including aura's known themselves. May be taken again at 5th level and once every 5 subsequent levels.
    1 Draconic Aura Known 1 Draconic Aura +1 May be taken multiple times
    Totem Dragon 1
    Draconic Adaptation 1 Totem Dragon May be selected one additinal time at 13th level
    Breath Weapon (1d4 rounds) 4 Totem Dragon, 4th level
    Draconic Resolve 2 4th level
    Touch of Vitality 2 6th level May be selected again at 11th level
    Natural Armour +1 2 7th level May be selected again every 5 subsequent levels
    Energy Immunity 4 Totem Dragon, 9th level
    Commune with Dragon Spirit 4 14th level
    Draconic Wings 4 Totem Dragon, Energy Immunity

    Spoiler: Knight
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Fighting Challenge +1 2 May be chosen again at every 6 levels beyond 1st, increasing the bonus by +1. Acts like Knights challenge for intents and purposes.
    Shield Block 2 2nd level May be chosen again at every 9 level beyond 2nd
    Bulwark of Defense 4 3rd level
    Armour Mastery 2 4th level May be chosen again at 9th level
    Test of Mettle 2 4th level, Fighting Challenge
    Vigilant Defender 1 5th level
    Shield Ally 2 6th level
    Call to Battle 2 8th level, Fighting Challenge
    Daunting Challenge 2 12th level, Fighting Challenge
    Improved Shield Ally 2 14th level, Shield Ally
    Bond of Loyalty 2 14th level, Fighting Challenge
    Impetuous Endurance 2 17th level
    Loyal Beyond Death 4 20th level, Fighting Challenge



    Spoiler: Heroes of Horror
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    Spoiler: Archivist
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Dark Knowledge:Tactics 4 May take again for every 3 levels (1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th & 18th)
    Dark Knowledge:Puissance 4 5th level
    Dark Knowledge:Foe 4 8th level
    Dark Knowledge:Dread Secret 4 11th level
    Dark Knowledge:Foreknowledge 4 14th level
    Lore Mastery 2 2nd level
    Still Mind 4 4th level

    Spoiler: Dread Necromancer
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Charnel Touch 2
    Lich Body 4 2nd level May take again at 7th, 11th & 15th levels.
    Negative Energy Burst 2 3rd level May take an additional time for every 5 levels beyond 3rd. (8th, 13th & 18th)
    Mental Bastion 4 4th level May take again at 14th level.
    Fear Aura 4 5th level
    Scabrous Touch 4 Charnel Touch, 6th level May take again for every additional 5 levels beyond 6th. (11th & 16th)
    Undead Mastery 4 Arcane/Divine Caster
    Negative Energy Resistance 4 9th level
    Enervating Touch 4 12th level, Charnel Touch

    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-24 at 05:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5)

    Spoiler: Complete Arcane
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    Spoiler: Warlock
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Eldritch Blast 1d6 4 May take an additional time at every odd level.
    Damage Reduction 1/cold iron 4 3rd level May gain an additional time every 4 levels beyond 3rd. (7th, 11th, 15h & 19th)
    Deceive Item 2 4th level
    Fiendish Resilience 2 8th level May take again at 13th level
    Energy Resistance 4 10th level May take again at 20th level
    Imbue Item 2 14th level

    Spoiler: Warmage
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Warmage Edge 4 Spell caster

    Spoiler: Wu Jen
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Watchful Spirit 1
    Spell Secret + Taboo 2 Spell caster May take an additional time at 9th and every 3 levels thereafter. (9th, 12th, 15th & 18th)
    Elemental Mastery 2 6th level, Spell caster



    Spoiler: Complete Divine
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    Spoiler: Favored Soul
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Energy Resistance 2 5th May be taken again once every 5 subsequent levels
    Wings 4 17th

    Spoiler: Shugenja
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Sense Elements 2

    Spoiler: Spirit Shaman
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    TBA



    Spoiler: Complete Warrior
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    Spoiler: Hexblade
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Hexblade's Curse 2 May be taken once every four levels after 1st
    Greater Hexblade's Curse 4 6th level, Hexblade's Curse
    Dire Hexblade's Curse 4 19th level, Greater Hexblade's Curse
    Aura of Unluck 2 12th level May be taken again every four levels after 12th
    Dark Companion 4 PHBII p. 47

    Spoiler: Samurai
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Kai Smite 2 May be taken again at 7th level and every 5 levels thereafter
    Staredown 1 4th level
    Mass Staredown 2 10th level, Staredown
    Improved Staredown 4 14th level, Mass Staredown
    Frightful Prescence 2 20th level

    Spoiler: Swashbuckler
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Insightful Strike 4
    Dodge Bonus 2 5th level May take again for every 5 levels above 5th.(10th, 15th, & 20th)
    Shield of Blades 2 5th level PHBII p. 63
    Acrobatic Charge 1 7th level
    Improved Flanking 1 8th level
    Lucky 2 11th level
    Weakening Critical 4 14th level
    Wounding Critical 4 19th level
    Grace 2 2nd level May take again at 11th and 20th levels



    Spoiler: Dragon Magic
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    Spoiler: Dragonfire Adept
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Breath Weapon 1d6 (at will) 4 May take an additional time at every odd level.
    Breath effect 4 2nd level, Breath weapon (at will) May take an additional time at 5th, 10th, 12th, 15th & 20th level)
    Scales +2 4 2nd level, Breath weapon (at will)
    Scales +1 2 8th level, Scales +2 May take an additional time at 13thy & 18th levels.
    Dragonkin 2 Dragonblooded
    Damage Reduction 2/magic 4 6th level May take again at 16th level.
    Draconic Immunities 4 19th level, Dragonblooded



    Spoiler: Eberron Campaign Setting
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    Spoiler: Artificer
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Artificer Knowledge 2 1 known infusion
    Artisan Bonus 1
    Item creation 2
    Craft Homonculus 1 4th level
    Retain Essence 4 5th level, Craft Reserve
    Metamagic Spell Trigger 4 7th level, 1 item creation feat
    Metamagic Spell completion 4 11th level, Metamagic Spell Trigger



    Spoiler: Tome of Battle
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    Spoiler: Warblade
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Battle Clarity 4
    Weapon Aptitude 2
    Battle Ardor 4 3rd level
    Battle Cunning 4 7th level
    Battle Skill 4 11th level
    Battle Mastery 4 15th level, 2 other Battle abilities
    Stance Mastery 4 20th level

    Spoiler: Crusader
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Steely Resolve 5 4 May be taken again at 4th and every 4 levels thereafter. (1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, & 20th)
    Furious counterstrike 4 Steely Resolve 5
    Indomitable Soul 2 2nd level
    Zealous Surge 2 3rd level

    Spoiler: Swordsage
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Quick to Act +1 2 May be taken again at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. (1st, 5th, 10th, 15th & 20th)
    AC Bonus with light armor 4 2nd level, Light Armor proficiency
    Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus) 2 May take again, choose a different discipline each time.
    Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike) 4 4th level, Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus) May take again, choose a different discipline each time.
    Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance) 4 8th level, Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike) May take again, choose a different discipline each time.
    Sense Magic 2 7th level
    Dual Boost 3/day 4 20th level



    Spoiler: Tome of Magic
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    Spoiler: Binder
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    Ability Points Requirements Special
    Supress Sign 1 2nd level, Soul Binding
    Pact Augmentation 3 2nd level, Soul Binding May take again at 5th, 10th, 16th and 20th levels.
    Soul Guardian 4 6th level, Soul Binding (3rd level pacts) May take again at 9th, 13th, and 19th levels.

    Spoiler: Shadowcaster
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    Ability Points Requirements Special

    Spoiler: Truespeaker
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    Ability Points Requirements Special

    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-24 at 05:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5)

    I'm looking to start a playtest once I have all the PHB classes with ACF's done.

    If you are interested in that, please post and let me know.

    Current Playtest is open

    Suggested changes
    • n/a
    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-24 at 05:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    I find this system really really interesting, but one problem I have at the moment is, the missing descriptions of the different abilities you can choose from the classes.

    Are all of these abilities ment to be found in the books? Because at the moment I am not sure how to find the descriptions.

    EDIT:
    Just read it all closer and saw that most abilities had a book and page reference, but some doesnt, I know that most of those that doesnt have i PHB abilities but some (Berserkers strength for one) Is from PHB2 and I think you should put in a book and page reference aswell there.
    Last edited by sajro; 2014-10-07 at 03:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by sajro View Post
    I find this system really really interesting, but one problem I have at the moment is, the missing descriptions of the different abilities you can choose from the classes.

    Are all of these abilities ment to be found in the books? Because at the moment I am not sure how to find the descriptions.

    EDIT:
    Just read it all closer and saw that most abilities had a book and page reference, but some doesnt, I know that most of those that doesnt have i PHB abilities but some (Berserkers strength for one) Is from PHB2 and I think you should put in a book and page reference aswell there.
    Thanks!

    Anything that doesn't have a source cited, is from the SRD (d20srd.com).

    But yeah, there are a few, I'll have to add them when I get some time to work on this again.
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    How are you going to handle Psiconic, Submlime, Incarnum, etc. options?
    Races/Species
    Dreamfolk

    Runner

    Base Classes
    Wishmaster

    Skills
    Movement Skills

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Glitch View Post
    How are you going to handle Psiconic, Submlime, Incarnum, etc. options?
    Just like spellcasting, although they will be worth different amounts, which will probably need some play testing to ensure a balance.

    I just haven't gotten there yet.

    I'm focusing on the phb classes and their acf's then I'll move to other base classes and cover these subsystems as I go.

    And then, maybe monster abilities...
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    I was talking with some friends about your system and something confused us a bit:

    Can you choose different BAB's at different levels or do you decide in level one which progression ypu want and pay the stated amount every level? same for Saves?

    Skills:
    So again do you choose an amount per level at level one or can this be changed at every level? Same for HD?

    Spellcasting:
    Again do you pay the 20 points for 1-9 casting every level or only first?

    What about points you dont spend do they transfer to the next level?

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by sajro View Post
    I was talking with some friends about your system and something confused us a bit:

    Can you choose different BAB's at different levels or do you decide in level one which progression ypu want and pay the stated amount every level? same for Saves?

    Skills:
    So again do you choose an amount per level at level one or can this be changed at every level? Same for HD?

    Spellcasting:
    Again do you pay the 20 points for 1-9 casting every level or only first?

    What about points you dont spend do they transfer to the next level?
    Yep, you choose what you want at every level, except proficiencies, which are only purchased at first level, unless you want to upgrade them.

    With spellcasting, if you want new spells known and per day, you must spend the points for it again at that level.

    It can get complicated, but it allows for the ultimate expression in create characters.

    Edit: yes, you can spend the, as you see fit, and they roll over to next level. I have a character Points based Xp system, where you gain character points instead of xp in the works.
    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-12 at 12:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Then how do you check what you get with bab and saves, if you choose a different than you had last level?

    And for spell casting, would it be possible to change the system so you dont have to decide at level one what the highest spell level you want acces to?

    EDIT:
    MAybe paying a number of points equal to the spell level times the number of spells of that level you can cast extra per day? and a flat cost of 5 points for spellcasting levels in general?
    Early levels are cheaper for casters but costs more later on?
    Last edited by sajro; 2014-10-12 at 01:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Yep, you choose what you want at every level, except proficiencies, which are only purchased at first level, unless you want to upgrade them.
    Why wouldn't everyone choose 8+Int skill points at 1st level, then, from a mechanical standpoint?
    Base Class Contest XXV - Dungeon Plunge-In
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    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by sajro View Post
    Then how do you check what you get with bab and saves, if you choose a different than you had last level?

    And for spell casting, would it be possible to change the system so you dont have to decide at level one what the highest spell level you want acces to?

    EDIT:
    MAybe paying a number of points equal to the spell level times the number of spells of that level you can cast extra per day? and a flat cost of 5 points for spellcasting levels in general?
    Early levels are cheaper for casters but costs more later on?
    It would require the usage of Fractional Saves/BAB.

    It might be possible to break down spellcasting even further, I haven't had time to really delve into that far realm yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    Why wouldn't everyone choose 8+Int skill points at 1st level, then, from a mechanical standpoint?
    the same reason everyone doesn't take Factotum at 1st?

    Not sure where you're heading with this, skills are chosen at every level, not static once chosen at 1st.
    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-15 at 04:04 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Spell casting
    Points Ability Requirements
    0.5 1 cantrip/orison known* -
    1 1 spell known* -
    1 +1 cantrip/orison per day 1 orison or cantrip known
    2 +1 1st level spell per day 1 1st level spell known
    4 +1 2nd level spell per day 1 2nd level spell known
    6 +1 3rd level spell per day 1 3rd level spell known
    8 +1 4th level spell per day 1 4th level spell known
    10 +1 5th level spell per day 1 5th level spell known
    12 +1 6th level spell per day 1 6th level spell known
    14 +1 7th level spell per day 1 7th level spell known
    16 +1 8th level spell per day 1 8th level spell known
    18 +1 9th level spell per day 1 9th level spell known

    * = You gain a spell of any spell level you are able to cast up to your maximum determined by your character level (1st level spell at 1st-2nd level, 2nd at 3rd-4th, 3rd at 5th-6th and etc). You must know a spell of a lower level as a prerequisite for learning a spell.

    Spell lists
    When gaining a new spell known for the 1st time, you create a new spell list. Upon creating a new spell list, you must choose out of the following options:

    Arcane or Divine
    Spontaneous or Prepared
    A casting statistic, which determines bonus spells per day and the DC of the spells

    Once chosen, your spell list becomes unchangeable, and any new spells known or spell slots gained are added to this spell list.

    You may choose to create a new spell list by gaining a new 1st level spell known, follow the process above. If you have multiple spell lists, you must choose which one you are gaining new spells known or spell slots gained for each time.

    New spells/slots
    When gaining new spells known, there is a general prerequisite of knowing 1 spell of a lower level. This is the same for gaining new spell slots per day.
    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-16 at 01:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by BelGareth View Post
    Not sure where you're heading with this, skills are chosen at every level, not static once chosen at 1st.
    At 1st level, your skill points are multiplied by 4 still, correct? Why would anyone choose a lower point value (unless they didn't have enough for their core mechanic [e.g. spellcasting]) if they could get so many more skill points for just a couple of points at 1st level (and possibly never again)?
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei View Post
    At 1st level, your skill points are multiplied by 4 still, correct? Why would anyone choose a lower point value (unless they didn't have enough for their core mechanic [e.g. spellcasting]) if they could get so many more skill points for just a couple of points at 1st level (and possibly never again)?
    Because 8 skills for 3 points is a lot of points, it may not seem it, but at first level, you other things you wouldn't usually have to buy, like proficiencies and so forth, and having 8 skills, even times for isn't going to break anything.

    Do think they should be worth more?
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    I might be interested in helping with this, as much as time allows. Could you write a brief guide on balance points so that others might add content?

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by qazzquimby View Post
    I might be interested in helping with this, as much as time allows. Could you write a brief guide on balance points so that others might add content?
    ooh, thats awesome, and many thanks in advance, I'll get on that asap (although today might be hard as I'm on email duty)

    But basic premise is I'm covering all the PHB classes, and then their ACF's.

    Anything that can be replicated with a feat costs 1 (which just reminded me to update something)
    Anything that is slightly more powerful than a feat is 2 (like Countersong, and Trackless step)
    Anything that is a solid class ability is a 4 (like Aura of courage, and Wild shape)
    ACF's that replace an ability, cost the same as the replaced ability.
    Abilities that replace a spell slot, cost the same.
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Have you seen the Trissociate? I'd want this to go the same way, with a very strong backbone of core, then branching out into the best or most appropriate homebrew.

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Regarding spells, I think it would be a good Idea to disregard the lists entirely but still maybe differentiate between divine and arcane magic, so you can have the ability to cast both but have different casterlevels for each type.

    Also, it might be a good idea to put in a requirement to know and be able to cast a spell of the previous level before you can learn a new level?

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by qazzquimby View Post
    Have you seen the Trissociate? I'd want this to go the same way, with a very strong backbone of core, then branching out into the best or most appropriate homebrew.
    I have, I plan on doing all the classes, then PRC's (its a big project) then once all WoTC stuff is added, move onto well written brew.

    Quote Originally Posted by sajro View Post
    Regarding spells, I think it would be a good Idea to disregard the lists entirely but still maybe differentiate between divine and arcane magic, so you can have the ability to cast both but have different casterlevels for each type.

    Also, it might be a good idea to put in a requirement to know and be able to cast a spell of the previous level before you can learn a new level?
    I think you might be correct, having so many spell lists is confusing, and yes I need to tweak it and refine it somewhat....it's on my next to do list.

    EDIT: see above post, I changed it somewhat.
    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-16 at 01:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Maybe write up a priority list of things for people to do.
    Depending on the extent this project is completed, it could become great monolith. It will just take an obscene amount of work to get there.

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by qazzquimby View Post
    Maybe write up a priority list of things for people to do.
    Depending on the extent this project is completed, it could become great monolith. It will just take an obscene amount of work to get there.
    Good point, I'll add a list to the third post.

    EDIT: added.
    Last edited by BelGareth; 2014-10-17 at 11:45 AM.
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    I was wondering, if it is possible to take multiple feats every level?
    Does this stack with the feats you get every 3rd level?

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilinoris View Post
    I was wondering, if it is possible to take multiple feats every level?
    Does this stack with the feats you get every 3rd level?
    Yeah, the only thing limiting you is the amount of character points available.

    And yeah, this is only taking into account class abilities, but I think it would be up to the DM, I think it would be better to remove all level dependent bonuses except those purchased.
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    All PHB base classes and ACF's are complete.
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Some thoughts: You're off mark with balance. Giving everyone the same number of points helps matters, but as you can see with your charts on the current base classes, that doesn't help matters when certain abilities are much more powerful than others. Spellcasting is, going by the current stats, ludicrously undercosted. Especially since you can easily cherry pick spells, then buy a bunch of spell slots, and have it be divine casting too boot(which doesn't have built in disadvantages like arcane spells).

    Also, it seems odd to me that Combat Mastery is worth more points than a free bonus feat.

    Finally, the way the costs work is somewhat unclear. For example, if I buy the druids animal companion(and that's another thing, why would you make the druid and range animal companion cost the same amount? one's explicitly inferior to the other), do I have to purchase it multiple levels?
    Last edited by MeklorIlavator; 2014-10-17 at 10:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    You have missing the Paladin's ACF that swaps Divine grace for CHA to AC
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    Quote Originally Posted by MeklorIlavator View Post
    Some thoughts: You're off mark with balance. Giving everyone the same number of points helps matters, but as you can see with your charts on the current base classes, that doesn't help matters when certain abilities are much more powerful than others.
    Indeed, which made it exceptionally hard to assign arbitrary point values to class abilities, but when I went about trying to gauge the point value of each class, I wasn't trying to keep them all within the same range, as you can see, the fighter and rogue are severely under rated in that regards. I was hoping to make this system to fix that issue although.

    Spellcasting is, going by the current stats, ludicrously under costed. Especially since you can easily cherry pick spells, then buy a bunch of spell slots, and have it be divine casting too boot(which doesn't have built in disadvantages like arcane spells).
    Well, i think I may have omitted (and will need to amend) the idea of choosing divine/arcane spells, I wasn't intending arcane spells to be used as divine spells and vice versa. In regards to being under costed, I think that has yet to be seen, from what I can see it seems like a reverse bell curve where lower levels are much more powerful than later, as spellcasters are going to be hard pressed to purchase new spells per day for their higher level spells.

    Also, it seems odd to me that Combat Mastery is worth more points than a free bonus feat.
    Combat mastery and its affiliates allow a someone to bypass the normal prereqs, making it better than the standard feat.

    Finally, the way the costs work is somewhat unclear. For example, if I buy the druids animal companion(and that's another thing, why would you make the druid and range animal companion cost the same amount? one's explicitly inferior to the other), do I have to purchase it multiple levels?
    Some features that naturally level are consistent, and do not require additional investment, like the animal companion, if it doesn't say so, no you do not need to do anything, and your character level is what is important, not the amount of class levels in x and y.

    I didn't include the ranger companion, as it is a step below the animal companion, which is worth 2 points, making it conceivably worth 1 point, which is what a feat costs. Why would I do that when players can get the Wild Cohort feat for the same price? I might consider changing animal companion up to 4 (or even 3) and make the Ranger version cost 2, but again, who would do that when you could get the wild cohort for 1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drako_Beoulve View Post
    You have missing the Paladin's ACF that swaps Divine grace for CHA to AC
    Not familiar with that one, where is it from?
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    Default Re: Classless system (3.5, WIP)

    It occurs to me that there's a really cheap way around the steep cost of spell slots. Extra Slot from complete arcana means that, for anything that isn't your highest level spells, you get one slot at the low, low cost of 1 point for a feat.

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