Would the Tippyverse still exist if Wish teleportation could be blocked?

[AnonymousPepper]

Seems to me that if either Wish no longer had the "regardless of local conditions" clause or Weirdstones and Forbiddance and Halaster's Teleport Cage and similar methods were able to block all teleportation, large areas could still be defended relatively easily by a few traps spewing out Weirdstones.

At the very least, small towns could still exist, I would think.

[Dorian Gray]

Yes. The fundamental axiom of the Tippyverse is that Permanent Teleportation Circles allow for instant teleportation between cities. Wish-based teleportation is helpful, but largely irrelevant. And no, smaller towns still wouldn't exist.

[RenaldoS]

Small towns DO exist in the tippyverse. There are large swaths of land that are not controlled or managed by the cities and in those regions hamlets etc. do exist.

[Gemini476]

This lasts up until the point that someone grabs their local Truenamer and tells them to use IRON HEART SURGE Spell Rebirth.

Or they have an incorporeal critter with Antimagic Shackles act as a hole in the defences that a creature can be teleported to. Or just some of those shackles lying on the ground, I guess.

And even if it were to work, all this would stop would be teleporting armies directly into cities. It has pretty much no effect on the trade infrastructure that the Tippyverse evolves from.

It says a lot that the only thing I can think of that stops the Tippyverse cold and yet still allows for a usable campaign setting is the Seal of Binding (as seen with Pandorym and Shothragot).

[Chronos]

It says a lot that the only thing I can think of that stops the Tippyverse cold and yet still allows for a usable campaign setting is the Seal of Binding (as seen with Pandorym and Shothragot).

The only thing? Really? How about "tier 1 and 2 classes (and their spell lists) don't exist"? I'd think that would stop it pretty thoroughly, too. For that matter, there are a lot more non-broken spells on those lists than broken ones, so if you just eliminated all of the broken ones, it'd still do the trick.

[Emperor Tippy]

Seems to me that if either Wish no longer had the "regardless of local conditions" clause or Weirdstones and Forbiddance and Halaster's Teleport Cage and similar methods were able to block all teleportation, large areas could still be defended relatively easily by a few traps spewing out Weirdstones.

Forbiddance and Teleport Cage fall to Disjunction or anyone with Iron Heart Surge getting inside their covered area. There are another half dozen or so methods to open up holes in such defenses as well with their reliability generally depending on specific DM rulings (the big one being whether line of effect is needed for the blocker).

At the very least, small towns could still exist, I would think.

Small towns already exist, they just aren't generally important. The Wilds are filled with small towns, hamlets, and pocket kingdoms that are basically like traditional D&D settings.

[Extra Anchovies]

This lasts up until the point that someone grabs their local Truenamer and tells them to use IRON HEART SURGE

Thank you for this. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I had to close my computer so I could have a chance to stop laughing. But that didn't work.

[Frozen_Feet]

The question has largely been answered already, but just to add to the choir: yes, it would. Wish teleportation is ancillary, permanent Teleportation Circles are the keystone technology for Tippyverse.

[Gemini476]

The only thing? Really? How about "tier 1 and 2 classes (and their spell lists) don't exist"? I'd think that would stop it pretty thoroughly, too. For that matter, there are a lot more non-broken spells on those lists than broken ones, so if you just eliminated all of the broken ones, it'd still do the trick.

Not even that.

Teleportation Circle
Level: Sorcerer 9, Wizard 9, Wu Jen 9, Sha'ir 9, Shugenja 9 (Air), Rune (DD) 9,

Permanency
Level: Sorcerer 5, Wizard 5, Wu Jen 5, Sha'ir 5, Court Herald 5, Magewright 5, Time 5,

That's not even counting in Warlocks.

You could just remove Teleportation Circle, of course. That would fix the problem pretty much completely. However: the Tippyverse, at its core, is just asking "what would the world look like if you tried applying the rules as written, changing and removing as little as possible?"

Removing Teleportation Circle (or all non-Commoner classes, or characters above 6th level) is not exactly running things RAW. The Seal of Binding is a RAW construct that shuts things down, however.

Thank you for this. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I had to close my computer so I could have a chance to stop laughing. But that didn't work.

It's true, too!

SPELL REBIRTH
Level: 4
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None

Reverse: Your words strip away a magical effect from your target. This utterance dispels the spell with the highest caster level affecting the target.

Seriously, just look at that marvel of usefulness. (The normal version undispels stuff!) You'll need to find a 10th-level Truenamer to speak the utterance, yes, but you can cheese the DC by using a CR 1 caged rabbit as the thing to cast on.

It's just crazy.

[Extra Anchovies]

Seriously, just look at that marvel of usefulness. (The normal version undispels stuff!) You'll need to find a 10th-level Truenamer to speak the utterance, yes, but you can cheese the DC by using a CR 1 caged rabbit as the thing to cast on.

It's just crazy.

Wow, that's pretty... wow. That's... auto-dispel? Wow. And un-dispel? I have no words.

And since you mentioned Seal of Binding, what books is it from? All that google is giving me is stuff relating to KotSS, because it has "seal" in the class name and does soul binding.

[Chronos]

Elder Evils. The key search term was actually "Pandorym".

[Emperor Tippy]

Wow, that's pretty... wow. That's... auto-dispel? Wow. And un-dispel? I have no words.

And since you mentioned Seal of Binding, what books is it from? All that google is giving me is stuff relating to KotSS, because it has "seal" in the class name and does soul binding.

Elder Evils, the sign of the highest CR Elder Evil in the book.

It shuts down all teleportation on the plane and its the only non epic, RAW, way to do so.

It is also one of those things that makes a great addition to any Tippyverse setting just for the sheer chaos that it brings (although it does need a few alterations to stop the high level casters from just going and dealing with it, I tend to use knocking out magic users for 1 day per level.).

[Gemini476]

Yeah, it's Pandorym's Sign. More specifically his Overwhelming Sign.

Overwhelming: All conjuration (calling, summoning, and
teleportation) effects cease to function. Divination effects that
contact extraplanar beings (such as commune and contact other
plane) are likewise foiled. Divine spellcasters attempting to
replenish their spells for the day incur a 20% chance per spell
of not gaining the spell or spell slot. Divine spells are cast at –4
caster level, and turn or rebuke attempts take a –20 penalty on
the check and damage rolls.

The Strong sign might be enough, though - a 20% mishap chance on all Conjuration(Teleportation) spells seems likely to chop the head off the Permanent Teleportation Circle industry.

[Fax Celestis]

Elder Evils, the sign of the highest CR Elder Evil in the book.

It shuts down all teleportation on the plane and its the only non epic, RAW, way to do so.

It is also one of those things that makes a great addition to any Tippyverse setting just for the sheer chaos that it brings (although it does need a few alterations to stop the high level casters from just going and dealing with it, I tend to use knocking out magic users for 1 day per level.).

Third party, but the Torch of the Burning Sky (from War of the Burning Sky) can be a big impediment for teleportation effects: anyone teleporting takes 1d6 damage per 10' traveled. No save. No range limitation listed, but I'd assume it's planar.

Yes, yes, plenty of people get immune to damage (or at least dying from it), but it puts into place a rather large gulf between the haves and have nots: either you are nigh-epic with de facto damage immunity from one source or another, or you are a mage-peasant who has to hoof it everywhere or else get toasted by dimension door.

The other interesting side-effect is that it weaponizes baleful transposition in a humorous way.