The Elder Scrolls: It's the IX Divines, you milk-drinkers

[Avilan the Grey]

That "Fable-style" multiplayer is, I think, exactly what people have always wanted.

SOME people.
I definitely do not want multiplayer, period.

(Also, Fable stinks in general )

[Calemyr]

SOME people.
I definitely do not want multiplayer, period.

(Also, Fable stinks in general )

I should have said "people who wanted multiplayer in the first place", yes.

And yeah, Fable games are often incredibly over-hyped, under-developed, and amazingly shallow. But the combat is usually quite solid and the ad-hoc multiplayer setup they used in 3 was simple, clean, and easy.

I suppose multiplayer appeals to me in TES in the same sense that it does in Minecraft, where one player doesn't have much purpose while two players can generate rivalry, cooperation, and a diversity of ideas and styles. A second player adds a whole new dimension to the experience if it is handled properly. An Elder Scrolls game with a Fable-style multiplayer feature strikes me as a lot more intriguing of a concept than an Elder Scrolls MMO. But I'll try any MMO once, especially when it comes from groups with good world-building resumes.

[Gracht Grabmaw]

I just had an idea for a character in an Elder Scrolls roleplaying game. This one's for free:

A khajiit alfiq illusionist, masquerading as a human wizard's pet cat. In reality the "wizard" is the illusionist's thrall and the khajiit uses him as a cover and personal transportation.

[Avilan the Grey]

I suppose multiplayer appeals to me in TES in the same sense that it does in Minecraft, where one player doesn't have much purpose

Um what? This is basically the part of your argument I don't get at all.

[Squark]

Um what? This is basically the part of your argument I don't get at all.

I think I get what he meant. Sandbox games in general tend to be somewhat overwhelming; Even if you have quests or achievements, it's still quite possible to find yourself directionless. A multiplayer element can add direction; Old players showing new players the world, goofy shenanigans or pranks that are infinitely funnier with mulitple people playing, Competitions, PvP, etc.

[NineThePuma]

after 400 hours clocked in a game, it gets really boring. If I had someone to play it with, it'd be less boring

[Calemyr]

I think I get what he meant. Sandbox games in general tend to be somewhat overwhelming; Even if you have quests or achievements, it's still quite possible to find yourself directionless. A multiplayer element can add direction; Old players showing new players the world, goofy shenanigans or pranks that are infinitely funnier with mulitple people playing, Competitions, PvP, etc.

Yeah, pretty much my point, yes. Massively multiplayer dilutes the experience, while small-scale multiplayer can enhance it.

[The_Jackal]

Thread title wins.

IMO, addons are the key to keeping Skyrim fun. Though, honestly, if you're getting 400 hours of gameplay from the game, that sounds like pretty good value.

[Calemyr]

Thread title wins.

IMO, addons are the key to keeping Skyrim fun. Though, honestly, if you're getting 400 hours of gameplay from the game, that sounds like pretty good value.

Absolutely, on all three points. I don't think anyone's saying Skyrim is a bad deal (though not everyone likes it), just that there's long been call for multiplayer in TES (M'aiq has been talking about it since Morrowind), and that an MMO wasn't really what they were calling for. Someone just saw it as a way to make a lot of money (do MMOs ever do that any more, by the way? The genre is so diluted now that I can't imagine it being all that sweet of a cash cow for anyone any more).

[Squark]

TOR was profitable, and came in at the beginning of a wave of a few mor MMOs. Beyond that, I can't say.

[Triaxx]

Yeah, I'm not much for huge multi-player groups, but having three or four people to play with makes a lot of games fun. A few of the dungeons, particularly the Dwemer Ruins would be more fun if we could run as a small squad, instead of a single warrior.

[The_Jackal]

For the vast majority of titles: massive multiplayer is all about the holy grail of accounting departments the world over: Recurring revenue. And like most creative requirements imposed by the business instead of by development staff, it's doomed to fail. ESO was doomed to be doubly terrible, because it's what I've come to call the 'Treyarch Maneuver': taking IP from the studio that made it great, and giving it another studio with no higher goal than exploiting the fanbase with the aim of printing money.

[Anxe]

The title to this thread just reminded me of another thing that annoys me about nords (apart from just being a really generic one-trick-pony race in a setting that's otherwise very imaginative)
Milk-drinker sounds like a goofy made-up term but it actually is a real-world insult, only nords don't use it correctly. Milk-drinker doesn't mean sissy or coward or anything like that, it means liar. The Romans took their 'in vino veritas' very seriously, if a man didn't drink wine obviously he had something to hide.

It's an insult in German that roughly translates to weakling. I never knew it meant something different in Latin though. That's cool!

[Kareeah_Indaga]

ESO has its good points. The character creation system is excellent to the point that I was wishing Skyrim's was more like it. The scenery is gorgeous. The realm is huge. The MMO format does hurt it, and I think it would have been better off as a single player game, but there are things to like in it.

That said, I believe a good chunk of its problem is that you spend almost the entire game in solo-able content, with a fanbase that's used to solo games...and then all the endgame stuff is grouping/PvP heavy. So the people who wanted to do grouping stuff to begin with have to suffer through 50+ levels by themselves, and the people who LIKE soloing have nothing they can do once they finish the plot.

[Avilan the Grey]

The problem for me, of course, is that i loathe Multiplayer (except in strategy games, where I only prefer to play against the computer, but don't mind playing against other ppl) and that virtually every franchise that have had an MMO added to it has died with it, one way or another. Including the Warcraft universe. And yes, I am definititely of the opinion that every second, every dime, spent on a multiplayer function is money and time stolen from improving the single player.

I truly worry about the future of TES / Fallout if Bethesda decides to add any kind of multiplayer to it. Thank the Divines that it's not Bethesda themselves that handle the MMO, or the curse might have hit them (well for Blizzard it's less of a curse and more of a "why make another Warcraft game when we have WoW"), of MMO's that bleed the treasure chests dry.

[DigoDragon]

Yeah, I'm not much for huge multi-player groups, but having three or four people to play with makes a lot of games fun. A few of the dungeons, particularly the Dwemer Ruins would be more fun if we could run as a small squad, instead of a single warrior.

I miss the olden days of getting friends together for 'LAN Parties'.
That's the kind of multi-player I'm used to. Jumping in a game of Diablo or Warcraft with 2-3 friends was the best.

[Triaxx]

The last LAN game I played was the Sacred. That was considerable fun. Of course, getting together enough people consistently was the big problem. Surprisingly harder than getting a DnD group together and keeping them together.

[Anxe]

I miss the olden days of getting friends together for 'LAN Parties'.
That's the kind of multi-player I'm used to. Jumping in a game of Diablo or Warcraft with 2-3 friends was the best.

I like the new system better. My friends and I have spread out all over the US after high school and getting together via the internet allows us to hang out practically every night. LAN parties were cool too, but there's more accessibility with the new system.

[DigoDragon]

I like the new system better. My friends and I have spread out all over the US after high school and getting together via the internet allows us to hang out practically every night. LAN parties were cool too, but there's more accessibility with the new system.

Online play is great if you can control who joins the game. Like with... Torchlight 2 for example. I'm happy with that kind of online play.

[Bashhammer]

Ok, so, i have Helgen Reborn (which is awesome, by the way) and i'm doing the whole "take a recruit to a dungeon and stab things repeatedly" quests.

My question is: does it matter what i say when Not-Ahnold asks for an evaluation after i bring them back? Like, if i say they did fine, will something happen or change them compared to if i say they sucked? 'Cause, in my experiance, usually the top answer in the dialogue tree thingy is an "i'm a nice guy" response, and the bottom one is "i'm a d-bag", and for all but the redguard guy (and maybe the breton, i haven't done his yet) the top one basically says they need to train more and the bottom one says they did ok. I need to know if i have to go back to a previous save or not.

Edit: Nevermind, i just decided to go through it and not care. Really hope i didn't kill the thread.

[veti]

OK, so I'm playing a heavy-armour and war-axe-brandishing sorceror, with no fast travel allowed.

At level 22-ish, I decided to dismiss Lydia, and go do the College of Winterhold questline solo, and I've realised that the College hates people who don't fast-travel. You get laden down with cruft, and... trek miles and miles back to Windhelm to sell it, passing Fort Kastav (home of unnecessarily-levelled, hostile casters). Or you can jog along the coast to Dawnstar, which is a long way to go for a very marginal improvement in amenities, but at least you can get a boat to Solitude. (Seriously, what's the matter with Winterhold? The Great Collapse was 80 years ago, you'd think they'd at least have built a new forge by now. Maybe it's never stopped snowing long enough.) And all the quests are like, "Oh, just toddle off to this location half-way across the map, and be quick about it 'cuz Ancano is clearly planning to destroy the world by teatime."

If only they taught teleportation.

I've also realised my character isn't well optimised. I should've avoided levelling in Stealth and Alchemy, then maybe I'd only be level 19 and I wouldn't be meeting chaurus reapers, who can eat three of me for breakfast and still have room for a couple of Falmer.

[Anxe]

Those Charus are still scary at level 70 for me. Also, why not buy a horse to go faster? Are you avoiding that too? When I did a no fast travel game I still used horses.

[Triaxx]

I have to admit, I don't play a mage without Midas Magic and Psijic Teleport anymore. Midas provides 'luggage' which is a dwarven spider with a linked storage. Plus some other awesome spells. And Psijic Teleport gives up a Blink Power, and at 100 Alteration skill has a spell that lets you teleport anywhere in the world at a rather massive cost of magicka.

SkyRe also has a Walk on Water spell which is very helpful for running down and across the rivers and water. Particularly with Frost Fall. Of course if you're not playing with mods, then I'd advise taking carriages.

[NineThePuma]

how does psijic teleport even work.

[The_Jackal]

OK, so I'm playing a heavy-armour and war-axe-brandishing sorceror, with no fast travel allowed.

At level 22-ish, I decided to dismiss Lydia, and go do the College of Winterhold questline solo, and I've realised that the College hates people who don't fast-travel. You get laden down with cruft, and... trek miles and miles back to Windhelm to sell it, passing Fort Kastav (home of unnecessarily-levelled, hostile casters). Or you can jog along the coast to Dawnstar, which is a long way to go for a very marginal improvement in amenities, but at least you can get a boat to Solitude. (Seriously, what's the matter with Winterhold? The Great Collapse was 80 years ago, you'd think they'd at least have built a new forge by now. Maybe it's never stopped snowing long enough.) And all the quests are like, "Oh, just toddle off to this location half-way across the map, and be quick about it 'cuz Ancano is clearly planning to destroy the world by teatime."

If only they taught teleportation.

I've also realised my character isn't well optimised. I should've avoided levelling in Stealth and Alchemy, then maybe I'd only be level 19 and I wouldn't be meeting chaurus reapers, who can eat three of me for breakfast and still have room for a couple of Falmer.

I tried a no-fast-travel game, but I had to quickly abandon the concept because I couldn't walk from Windhelm to Whiterun without hitting some random encounter on the road and getting loaded down with loot.

[NineThePuma]

I honestly stopped looting after a certain point. If its value isn't in excess of ten times its weight, I'm not carrying it.

[AdmiralCheez]

Yeah, I leave most of the loot behind as well. I take gold, gems, ammo, crafting ingredients, and food. Occasionally, if something more valuable pops up, I'll take that, but I leave most armor and weapons behind. Even with mods that make gold more scarce and things more expensive, I'm usually not hurting for money.

[Avilan the Grey]

In the beginning you take almost EVERYTHING, including wine and beer.
About 10 levels later, you only go 10xWeight in value. Later than that, it's closer to 20xWeight.

[veti]

I tried a no-fast-travel game, but I had to quickly abandon the concept because I couldn't walk from Windhelm to Whiterun without hitting some random encounter on the road and getting loaded down with loot.

Yep, which is why I always make sure I have spare carrying capacity (in myself or companion) when I set out on a long trip like that.

Alternatively, I can take the carriage (that's allowed).

The whole "wearing heavy armour" thing is new to me, I've always gone light before, and I have to say I'm not enjoying it much. It's just so... heavy. And at level 26, 2 out of my 4 worn armour pieces are still light, because their enchantments are better than anything heavy I've found. (Hide boots with 50% shock resistance? Thank you Santa!)

In the beginning you take almost EVERYTHING, including wine and beer.
About 10 levels later, you only go 10xWeight in value. Later than that, it's closer to 20xWeight.

The '10x weight' rule would mean you do take wine, and most beer. Personally, I don't pick up anything worth less than about 7-8x weight even at level 1. By level 20, I'm still picking up at 10x weight (or alchemical/crafting value), but I hope to reach a point where I can sort through and drop it later when I find something better.

I have to admit, I don't play a mage without Midas Magic and Psijic Teleport anymore. Midas provides 'luggage' which is a dwarven spider with a linked storage. Plus some other awesome spells. And Psijic Teleport gives up a Blink Power, and at 100 Alteration skill has a spell that lets you teleport anywhere in the world at a rather massive cost of magicka.

SkyRe also has a Walk on Water spell which is very helpful for running down and across the rivers and water. Particularly with Frost Fall. Of course if you're not playing with mods, then I'd advise taking carriages.

Unfortunately, I've never had the patience to keep playing a character to the point where they have 100 Alteration. I've always lost interest about level 55-ish, when I run out of things that can pose much of a challenge.

Walk on Water would be a great spell, it's even lore-friendly (it was certainly in Morrowind, was it in Oblivion? - don't remember), but I don't like SkyRe. There must be a standalone mod version somewhere, I'll look for it. Good thought, thank you.

Carriages are a wonderful timesaver, but only from the Big Five walled cities. There's no carriage at Winterhold.

(Incidentally, why do we call them "carriages" when they're clearly "carts, and not very comfortable ones even at that"?)

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I'm a packrat when it comes to crafting materials (even AFTER I maxed out Smithing and had no reason to continue hording ingots, I still stashed enough in my house to outfit the entire Imperial legion three or four times over...when the next war breaks out I will be ready!), but otherwise late game I usually only grab weapons if they're enchanted, and armor only if it's light weight (so Justiciar patrols tend to get stripped while bandits might get their pockets rifled through).

The big problem I run into is that there's nowhere to spend my hard-earned Septims. I paid off Deep-In-His-Cups mostly because I could, I eventually ran out of houses to buy...even after leveling Speech to max that only took about a sixth of my coin. What can I do with all this money? Buy the throne from the Emperor?