Path of War now out! What do you like?

[ErrantX]

Regarding variety in ranged combat:

I believe that this can be fixed without the application of a new Discipline. I don't have the PDF or book just yet, but what about a feat/archetype/PrC/trait/enchantment/etc that specifically overrides the weapon limitations, allowing a ranged combatant to utilize disciplines otherwise limited to Melee at, say, half of their first range increment? The furthest I can think of that this will get to is about 150-ish feet.

This is just a rough idea, I can see it being more limited than that once I give the entire thing a more thorough read, but you get the drift.

Too many maneuvers have too many specific systems that would make a feat such as this highly difficult to make appropriate. A handwave yes you can Iron Tortoise or Primal Fury with a bow, or Thrashing Dragon with a crossbow? Just kind of weird and hard to balance. Keep the disciplines where they are, they're designed in such a way to as to be a comprehensive martial art. You can't use Kung Fu with a machine gun, but you could design a martial art around using a gun (see Equilibrium). See?

-X

[Lord_Gareth]

So, in PoW2, there'll be three classes: harbinger, zealot, and mystic, and 6-9 new disciplines. I've lost what notes I had on harbinger, but here's some disciplines:

Spoiler

Show

Discipline	Classes	Weapons	Skill	Tradition
Eternal Guardian	Zealot	hammers, heavy blades, polearms	Intimidate
Sleeping Goddess	Zealot	flails, heavy blades, monk, spears	Autohypnosis
Mithral Current	Warder*, Warlord*	light blades, heavy blades, polearms	Perform (Dance)
Piercing Lance	Warder*, Warlord*	polearms, spears	Ride
Eternal Flux
Riven Hourglass

So I guess if you like polearms, you're in luck.

Cursed Razor is available to Harbinger, through a Tradition, and to an upcoming Warder archetype. Its discipline weapons are heavy blades, light blades, and spears. Its associated skill is Spellcraft.

Shattered Mirror is available to Harbinger, to the upcoming Mystic class, and may be available through Tradition and/or archetypes, though that is not yet actually confirmed. Its discipline weapons are heavy blades, light blades, and close. Its associated skill is Craft (Glassmaking, Painting, Sculpture, or Sketching).

[squiggit]

One thing I'm pleasantly surprised about is system versatility.

Now, on the surface, the classes in PoW are much more well defined than the classes in ToB. This is a good thing because... hey, actual class features. But it also looked like it might be a bad thing where a class is designed around a certain niche and therefore every member of that class is basically the same idea. Especially for the Warder and Warlord because of their more limited pool of options.

But today I put together two warders and they're basically unrecognizable as the same class.

Though on that note, dervish defender has... a lot of AC at low levels, maybe too much.

[Anlashok]

As far as the elemental thing; honestly, I can't please anybody on that one

I understand the bind there. I really do think a sidebar would be helpful. For me personally I can change anything I want for a player, but a lot of DMs like having something in the book that says they can do something.

End of the day, more content will exist if more financial incentive is given.

You can't use Kung Fu with a machine gun, but you could design a martial art around using a gun (see Equilibrium).

I put a $20 in my CD drive. Did you get it?


Don't get me wrong, I really like the book, and honestly the only houserules I'm considering are making a few more maneuvers ranged friendly and combining deadly agility and double weapon finesse (or something, not sure what I'm doing there).

[Greenish]

Does Deadly Agility work when throwing weapons?

[Fenryr]

Does Deadly Agility work when throwing weapons?

No. I had the same doubt not long ago.

[Prime32]

A 2-level bard dip for Versatile Performance could be interesting for a few builds.

Versatile Performance (Ex): At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill. At 6th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the bard can select an additional type of Perform to substitute.

The types of Perform and their associated skills are: Act (Bluff, Disguise), Comedy (Bluff, Intimidate), Dance (Acrobatics, Fly), Keyboard Instruments (Diplomacy, Intimidate), Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), Percussion (Handle Animal, Intimidate), Sing (Bluff, Sense Motive), String (Bluff, Diplomacy), and Wind (Diplomacy, Handle Animal).

A Court Bard 2/Bannerman X for instance, using Perform (oratory) or Perform (sing) for his Scarlet Throne maneuvers. It's not that useful right now since few of those combinations involve maneuvers with a lot of skill checks. With PoW2 though, you could be a warlord with Broken Blade, Thrashing Dragon and Mithral Current all running on Perform (dance) checks or something.

So yeah - I certainly have a feat that allows for cold damage Solar Wind, same as I'm changing the limitation to Mage Hunter casting to allow for the other mental stats through Martial Training. But that's not what the majority of groups will do. The majority of groups, without a cue to say it's okay in the source material will say "well ****" and never think about the option, leaving Solar Wind more susceptible than any other discipline to immunity and heavy resistance.

That's why I still think a feat would be a good idea. Not one to wholesale change the discipline's element; that's simply patching a band-aid over the problem. A feat that was designed to give the option above and beyond what they already had when they prepare maneuvers by letting them choose to deal cold damage on ones they choose to do cold damage on and fire damage on the others - and isn't giving options the point of feats?

Thematically, I'm not too fond of a "change the element" feat compared to just letting players choose an alternate version of the discipline. But I do like the idea of a psionic feat that alters your Solar Wind maneuvers to match your active energy type.

[Shinken]

Thematically, I'm not too fond of a "change the element" feat compared to just letting players choose an alternate version of the discipline. But I do like the idea of a psionic feat that alters your Solar Wind maneuvers to match your active energy type.

That sounds like an excellent idea. It doesn't even need to be Solar Wind specific. Hell, it doesn't even need to be a feat - just add a sidebar saying that if you're psionic, the energy damage matches your active energy type (but a feat would work, I believe).

[Prime32]

Might also work as part of a Marksman archetype. Then there's racial stuff, like a maenad version of Solar Wind that deals sonic damage (fire attacks do not work well at sea).

[Ilorin Lorati]

Making Solar Wind tied into active energy type would be the kind of flexibility that would mean no solar wind user was ever not psionic, honestly. Maybe behind a set of damnably hard prerequisites or as an archetype though, yeah.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Making Solar Wind tied into active energy type would be the kind of flexibility that would mean no solar wind user was ever not psionic, honestly. Maybe behind a set of damnably hard prerequisites or as an archetype though, yeah.

Stalker of the Four Winds?

[Raven777]

[...] but you could design a martial art around using a gun (see Equilibrium). See?

-X

Now we need a discipline all about gun-fu. Since pistols already have such a short range increment (20 ft.), this screams for some kind of melee gun & punch discipline.

[Ilorin Lorati]

At one point Chris said that they were considering a feat in PoW2 that allowed for Broken Blade to be used with Improvised Weapons to allow for a more gun-fu ish short range combat style.

[Shinken]

At one point Chris said that they were considering a feat in PoW2 that allowed for Broken Blade to be used with Improvised Weapons to allow for a more gun-fu ish short range combat style.

Pistol whip may or may not be an improvised weapon depending on your class...

[Jacob.Tyr]

Now we need a discipline all about gun-fu. Since pistols already have such a short range increment (20 ft.), this screams for some kind of melee gun & punch discipline.

Playing a Hawkguard Warder right now that uses Golden Lion strikes and boosts, some broken blade and iron tortoise for shield bashing (took buckler bash), and a few Solar Wind boosts (+30' range increment ftw). The close strikes are mostly for status effects (Shard of Iron Strike), which works really nicely. Not a combat beast in melee, though I'm working on a character rebuild and may pick up finesse and deadly agility next level to make buckler bashing more effective (str was my dump stat...). I can post a character build if people are interested, but seriously a Hawkguard is a damned good Gun-Fu class.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Pistol whip may or may not be an improvised weapon depending on your class...

Most, if not all, classes that get melee attacks through their guns don't actually define guns specifically as melee weapons. Gunslinger's Pistol-Whip lets them make an attack with the butt of their gun as a standard action, and Grammaton Cryptic's Gun Kata is worded weirdly and may or may not actually count as a weapon for maneuvers.

[Elricaltovilla]

Playing a Hawkguard Warder right now that uses Golden Lion strikes and boosts, some broken blade and iron tortoise for shield bashing (took buckler bash), and a few Solar Wind boosts (+30' range increment ftw). The close strikes are mostly for status effects (Shard of Iron Strike), which works really nicely. Not a combat beast in melee, though I'm working on a character rebuild and may pick up finesse and deadly agility next level to make buckler bashing more effective (str was my dump stat...). I can post a character build if people are interested, but seriously a Hawkguard is a damned good Gun-Fu class.

I would definitely be interested in seeing this character build.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Here's something I'd like to see a bit of discussion on: what maneuvers can be used in conjunction with touch spells? I know Bladecaster has Bladecaster's Strike - I'm more asking about casting and holding a touch spell one round then initiating a maneuver off that charge on the next. I know you're counted as armed while holding a charge, but in many (most? all?) cases a melee attack is specifically not a melee touch attack, which would leave only maneuvers that say any attack as available for this thought process.

[squiggit]

and Grammaton Cryptic's Gun Kata is worded weirdly and may or may not actually count as a weapon for maneuvers.

RAI they're supposed to essentially function as light maces. RAW gets icky because they're neither light and probably improvised

[Shinken]

Most, if not all, classes that get melee attacks through their guns don't actually define guns specifically as melee weapons. Gunslinger's Pistol-Whip lets them make an attack with the butt of their gun as a standard action, and Grammaton Cryptic's Gun Kata is worded weirdly and may or may not actually count as a weapon for maneuvers.

Yes - and limiting it to improvised weapons, the two classes that are most connected to hitting things in melee with a gun wouldn't be able to make use of the discipline.
If the point is gun-fu, 'hitting things with a gun in melee' should be a discipline weapon. Improvised weapons are a lot broader than that, which ends up with a Jackie Chan vibe. Not a bad thing per se - but not gun-fu.

[Togath]

Does a dervish defender's two weapon fighting bonus feat require the character to meet the prerequisites?
If it doesn't require a high dex... How well do you think a high strength duel wielder build would work?

[Greenish]

Does a dervish defender's two weapon fighting bonus feat require the character to meet the prerequisites?
If it doesn't require a high dex... How well do you think a high strength duel wielder build would work?

Aside from never getting more than one off-hand attack, and having lower AC, initiative, ref saves, and Acrobatics skill than Dex-based one, it shouldn't be too bad.

[Feint's End]

Does Deadly Agility work when throwing weapons?

As has been mentioned it doesn't.

There is a psionic feat though which adds dex to damage when throwing. Appropriately the name is deadly throw (IIRC). You need to maintain psionic focus though making it necessary to have the psionic subtype.

[Togath]

Trying to decide...
Two weapon fighting, or... Something else for a steelfist commando?
I do have permission from my gm to switch out a discipline for silver crane, if that aids things any.

[Greenish]

Trying to decide...
Two weapon fighting, or... Something else for a steelfist commando?
I do have permission from my gm to switch out a discipline for silver crane, if that aids things any.

Depends on what you want. Two-handing is good, obviously (temple sword is basically a longsword that's also a monk weapon), and sword'n'board works okay, though since you don't have shield proficiency, you'll need a MW light shield (so as to have no ACP) and can't get Imp. Shield Bash. Ranged with longbow is also a solid option, since Silver Crane, Steel Serpent, and Golden Lion all have maneuvers that can be used ranged (in addition to Solar Wind, obviously).

[Togath]

I hadn't thought of trying a bow with it... Could definitely be fun ^_^ (and as a plus, I'll be threatening nearby spaces due to the unarmed strikes)
Should I invest in strength for compound bows, or rely on deadly aim/maneuvers for damage?

[Greenish]

I hadn't thought of trying a bow with it... Could definitely be fun ^_^ (and as a plus, I'll be threatening nearby spaces due to the unarmed strikes)
Should I invest in strength for compound bows, or rely on deadly aim/maneuvers for damage?

Depends on what your stats and pointbuy look like, but martial adepts are unlikely to have spare points for what's probably not even tertiary stat.

[Togath]

20 point buy, with human as the race.

something like this look decent? Should I move the str points back to wis?;
12 str
14+2 dex
14 con
10 int
8 wis
16 cha

edit: though I was going for silver crane for some of the melee only moves...
Is two weapon fighting worth considering for a steelfist commando? And would a two handed build work with their unarmed strike?(never been sure how unarmed strike would interact with things like power attack and... whatever else a two handed fighter uses)

[Greenish]

It's not too bad. You could also dump Strength and grab Weapon Finesse, if you have feats to spare.

[Edit]: Steelfist Commando is excellent for TWF, and I'm quite sure PoW intends unarmed strikes be two-weapon-fightable, but by default they aren't (since you only have one "unarmed strike").

[Togath]

Actually, you can use two weapon fighting with unarmed strikes. A creature's whole body is usable for them, so they can always be used as an offhand attack.
I may try two weapon fighting... How far down the chain should I go? Will I actually be using enough full attacks to see any use from the later feats?

As for the two handed style thing with unarmed attacks... Does it work?