Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not 40K

[GloatingSwine]

Just stop thinking of it as some plot hole, and try to understand it as a plot point.

Filling in plot holes yourself doesn't stop them being plot holes. Bethesda wanted to have the super special awesome destiny sacrifice ending and they ignored the possibilities inherent in the scenario they themselves had created in order to get it.

Fortunately, after the internet told them how silly they were they did fix it for Broken Steel and you can take the sensible options.

[cavalieredraghi]

that is till the brotherhood expansion came out which allowed for those alternate endings to happen.

[BladeofObliviom]

And the BoS actually delivers water to Raiders. If you head to Evergreen Mills, they've been dropping water there, outside a known bandit hideout.

I'm fairly sure that the raiders raided a Caravan for it, actually, since random caravaneers do most of the actual delivery. It's not like Talon Company hasn't been doing the exact same thing.

[Triaxx]

Except you'll actually find the caravan stopping there.

[BladeofObliviom]

Except you'll actually find the caravan stopping there.

This is probably a consequence of the vanilla caravan routes going to Evergreen Mills. They'll also show up at Paradise Falls sometimes for the same reason. As far as I can tell, this is a result of Bethesda not thinking things through all the way rather than clear evidence. Alternately, they're ignoring mission orders and pocketing the profit.

I'm getting my information from Scribe Bigsley's dialogue, where he at one point half-jokingly suggests selling water to Raiders and Slavers to supplement income before dismissing the thought because Lyons would have his head for it. I suppose that statement doesn't entirely preclude the possibility of the Brotherhood of Steel happily handing out free resources to their hated enemies, but it implies that they're at least not currently selling.

[Cikomyr]

Providing water to the raiders kind of make sure the Raiders dont start targeting the folks you are helping for water. Or targeting your caravans.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I would have to wonder what in hell powers Project Purity.

Bethesda's writers not paying attention when they played Fallout 2 and confusing the GECK with the Genesis Device from Star Trek II.

Wait crap FO3's original ending is literally just Star Trek II, isn't it?

[Cikomyr]

Bethesda's writers not paying attention when they played Fallout 2 and confusing the GECK with the Genesis Device from Star Trek II.

Wait crap FO3's original ending is literally just Star Trek II, isn't it?

So... I am Spock...?

The Enclave is Khan, who tried to capture Project Genesis?

The Brotherhood is Kirk, suffering from insane arrogance that let dozens and dozens of people dying, and banished the Enclave into nothingness years ago?

[cavalieredraghi]

Wasn't Project Purity a generator as much as a purifying system? It was able to power itself with hydro-power.

[BladeofObliviom]

Wasn't Project Purity a generator as much as a purifying system? It was able to power itself with hydro-power.

Sure. But even if it were producing significantly more power than it were using (which isn't demonstrably true or falsifiable but I'll accept the premise), there really isn't any infrastructure to take it anywhere. You could maybe run a line to Rivet City since it's right next door, but really nobody else has any reason to care.

Hoover Dam, on the other hand, is apparently attached to a functional power grid and administered by a faction with both the technical knowhow and manpower to maintain and repair an electrical infrastructure.

@V: I didn't mean to suggest that it was difficult or that the NCR couldn't do it, though I can see how it might have been read that way.

[Triaxx]

Well, figure that they probably had manuals for the dam, and presumably the local technical schools which would have survived due to simple proximity to the New Vegas safe zone. (Safe being defined as in reach of the bombs House was able to stop from going off.) So getting it up and running probably wasn't that difficult. Keeping it going is probably more of an issue, depending on the kind of maintenance it requires. Though I'm pretty sure it was NOT designed to handle sucking in Lakelurks.

[Zrak]

(Bethesda aren't particularly good at the whole writing business, they're more about the "wide as an ocean, shallow as a puddle" world design business).

I don't think it's really something intrinsic to them as a company, but rather to the specific writers of Fallout 3. The comparison between "pushing the button" in Fallout 3 and the climax of, say, Daggerfall is pretty stark.

They intimidated your follower into not be intervening. Thats all.

This is more convincing than the arguments presented in the text itself, but it still contradicts the entirety of some of the followers' characterization. For example, Charon's whole schtick is that he never disobeys the person with his contract.

[Triaxx]

The other thing is that it only really works with a good character. An evil one would in theory be implanting the FEV. Unfortunately, that would still require them to step inside and commit suicide to do it. Why? What's the motivation for an evil character?

[Jayngfet]

I don't think it's really something intrinsic to them as a company, but rather to the specific writers of Fallout 3. The comparison between "pushing the button" in Fallout 3 and the climax of, say, Daggerfall is pretty stark.

Indeed. The chart on questlines between Fo3 and NV shows exactly how much more complex Obsidian got it, and that's with a game that needed months more of work.

[Driderman]

The other thing is that it only really works with a good character. An evil one would in theory be implanting the FEV. Unfortunately, that would still require them to step inside and commit suicide to do it. Why? What's the motivation for an evil character?

A willingness to sacrifice oneself for "the cause"?
People in the real world have certainly gone to their death for all manner of horrible causes, I don't see why it couldn't happen in a Fallout game.

[Divayth Fyr]

The other thing is that it only really works with a good character. An evil one would in theory be implanting the FEV. Unfortunately, that would still require them to step inside and commit suicide to do it. Why? What's the motivation for an evil character?

At that point we already know we aren't Vault-born, so we are very likely to be harmed by the FEV. Unless our idea would be to implant it and get as far away as possible from the Capital Wasteland as possible, the action would create a situation where every meal and drink (with the exception of pre-war stuff) can be fatal (if the "purified" water was used to prepare it).

[Cikomyr]

The other thing is that it only really works with a good character. An evil one would in theory be implanting the FEV. Unfortunately, that would still require them to step inside and commit suicide to do it. Why? What's the motivation for an evil character?

See, I would make the argument that the FEV endgame is another sort of.. good. a twisted and destructive, but still self-sacrificing sort of good. Basically puritanical crusader.

You should have had a 3rd option.

[DigoDragon]

Though I'm pretty sure it was NOT designed to handle sucking in Lakelurks.

It be funny to install some large ship propeller screws to chop up the lurks XD
Now we have power and snacks!

See, I would make the argument that the FEV endgame is another sort of.. good. a twisted and destructive, but still self-sacrificing sort of good. Basically puritanical crusader.

Considering ghouls seem to need radiation for survival, and super-mutants need an ever-more rare gas to make more super-mutants, I would think a lot of the problems would be resolved with time. Maybe.

[GloatingSwine]

A willingness to sacrifice oneself for "the cause"?
People in the real world have certainly gone to their death for all manner of horrible causes, I don't see why it couldn't happen in a Fallout game.

I think the logical problem there comes because the "cause" is introduced so late into the game. Half an hour from the end of the plot of a hundreds of hour long open world game (and in the original it really was the end as well).

[Driderman]

I think the logical problem there comes because the "cause" is introduced so late into the game. Half an hour from the end of the plot of a hundreds of hour long open world game (and in the original it really was the end as well).

Yeah, I never said it was a good explanation. Which I suppose fits the ending quite well

[GolemsVoice]

Considering ghouls seem to need radiation for survival, and super-mutants need an ever-more rare gas to make more super-mutants, I would think a lot of the problems would be resolved with time. Maybe.

Aren't there actually some Supermutants who are no longer sterile? Or am I misremembering things?

[cavalieredraghi]

that is if you were a good person in Tactics and ya they are in the mid west.

[Calemyr]

Aren't there actually some Supermutants who are no longer sterile? Or am I misremembering things?

Marcus claims once that the sterility isn't permanent, but I think Word of God says that this was meant to be a joke and not taken seriously.

[BladeofObliviom]

Aren't there actually some Supermutants who are no longer sterile? Or am I misremembering things?

Marcus makes a crack about "getting the juices flowing again" during Fallout 2 at one point, but I'm pretty sure the answer is a flat 'no' in the Fallout Bible. Which isn't canon, but can probably be taken at its word here.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[cavalieredraghi]

In tactics there was a whole line of the story when you fight the Super mutants where they are on the verge of curing their sterility. By the end of the game they have done if you the player had not destroyed their work.

[DigoDragon]

By the end of the game they have done if you the player had not destroyed their work.

That would be scary. I guess the group working towards the cure are smarter than the Capital Wasteland types.

[Cikomyr]

Silly question. Was it possible to side with the White Legs and kill Joshua in Honest Hearts?

[Nerd-o-rama]

That would be scary. I guess the group working towards the cure are smarter than the Capital Wasteland types.

They were of Mariposa stock that made the trip over the Rockies after the events of Fallout, and therefore intelligence and social capacity varied almost entirely based on the amount of radiation damage prior to FEV exposure. Presumably the ones who were still alive by 2198 were the smartest ones and the ones who were just smart enough to take orders from the smartest ones.

They were also lead by an insane ex-Brotherhood Paladin by the time they're encountered by the Fallout Tactics player faction, but he was not exactly compos mentis.

Then there was the similar plot in Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel but that involved less Super Mutant researchers and more one Super Mutant jamming himself with syringes and accidentally turning into Akira.

[Gaelbert]

Silly question. Was it possible to side with the White Legs and kill Joshua in Honest Hearts?

You can't actually side with the White Legs, if you kill Joshua (or any other quest-essential NPC) you get a quest to kill all of the quest-essential NPCs.

[Mobius Twist]

Since all the quest-essential NPCs are effectively fighting against the White Legs, you implicitly end up helping them win even if you don't a) care about their goals or b) ever meet their leader (salt-upon-wounds).

Considering they're just as likely to kill you as look at you, even if you're going around Zion wiping out their enemies, it's not exactly a winning scenario.

Question is, is the Burned Man as much of a pain to kill when fighting against you as your companion?