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2014-09-16, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
I personally hope the Legion Ending is the right one. If only because it would basically be the default ending if the Courier had not existed and.. well, it's the only ending leaving other protagonists existing. I mean, the NCR is the only faction that can lose without breaking appart.
Basically, the Legion conquering the Mojave, the NCR in retreat. the BoS hiding behind the Legion's lines. It's filled with potentials.
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2014-09-16, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
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2014-09-16, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
SpoilerIf the Courier hadn't existed, House would probably run the mojave, since the chip would have been accepted by the Ex-Frumentari dude who almost nukes the mojave, who'd do his job and deliver it, thus causing the House ending; given the **** he's stopped, I find it unlikely Benny would have gotten to off him like a chump. That dude only didn't take the job because he saw the same Courier who accidentally ruined his little pocket country and wanted him to do it. And then that ex-frumentari would have nuked the mojave because mumblemumbleformacountrymumble.Last edited by RPGuru1331; 2014-09-16 at 09:41 PM.
Asok: Shouldn't we actually be working?
And then Asok was thrown out of the car.
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2014-09-16, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
"I don't approve of society, so I try not to participate in it."
=====
Avatar of Karl the human by Bradakhan
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2014-09-16, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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- Those Meadows of Heaven
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
SpoilerNow, would Ulysses still do all the things for House that the Courier did? Because a lot of little things are all coming to bear (the Gomorrahs, the Khans, the Boomers) who might still be supporting the Legion, or just not House/NCR, or whatever it is that they're doing and the balance of power might still be with the Legion.
Benny's a pretty big one, too. How would his plan go? I think House said he knew all along about Yes Man and his plan, but would he just ignore it (like he ignores the possibility that the Courier might go for the Independent ending)? Benny was only stopped because the Courier had a personal vendetta against him. Would Ulysses still go after Benny in revenge, and try to finish his job delivering the chip? Which one of Benny's endings happens here? If he gets to Legion lines, would the former-Legion Ulysses do something different than what the Courier could do? Knowing what the chip does, and still being somewhat loyal to Caesar, would he go through with activating/upgrading the Fort's Securitrons, or could he, being a trusted member of the Frumentarii, go to Caesar, who would listen to him?
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2014-09-16, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
They were, 100% right.
However, there wasn't much of a "choice" to make in the other Fallouts. I mean.. you explored the sandbox, you made local choices.. but that's about it. These small choices had a massive impact in the future, which is the point of the Ending Generics. There wasn't much opportunities to side with the antagonists in either games.
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2014-09-16, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
If I had to guess, I'd say that the House ending is going to be the canon ending. NCR still exists, Legion still exists, and they don't have to decide what the Courier might have done.
Although they did decide that the Chosen One was a male and impregnated one of the Bishops, so the devs aren't exactly shy about determining what previous PC's have done.
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2014-09-16, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Benny attempts to ambush Ulysses and take the platinum chip. Ulysses catches the bullet in his teeth and rams a flagpole through Benny, while shouting something about how the great must bear history so that the sun may bleach the deserts of the past
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2014-09-16, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Obviously.
What other ending could possibly happen?
Spoiler: Ulysses is perfectly capable of doing that.Ulysses is obscenely powerful when you meet him at the end of Lonesome Road, and presumably hasn't really been doing much leveling between then and when he first notices your name on the hire list. He's already survived the nuclear apocalypse v2.0, gone through all the crap a decently leveled courier has with the White Legs, in Big Mountain, fought with Christine, and generally muddied around all over the continent, and could deal with a regular human armed with a 9mm pistol just as well as a level 50 Courier with power armor and a plasma caster.
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2014-09-16, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Wichita, Kansas
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Since the subject has come up, I've finished the main game and every DLC.... except for Lonesome Road. Since I no longer have a save file in a position to try to tackle it, could someone give me the lowdown on who Ulysses is, and what exactly his deal is?
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2014-09-16, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
SpoilerNot really; if you take that attitude, it becomes at worst a giant 3 way standoff, because now House has an army too. The legion might have had a bit more power in the region than the NCR seperately, but most of the jobs, IIRC, don't really change much til it's saving the one NCR politician (thus disincentivizing the NCR public from further war by ensuring he doesn't become a martyr) and then personally destroying the legate. I mean, come on, the Khans are kind of important narratively, but it's just an exhausted, battered tribe. It's not really altering the balance of power overall
Benny's a pretty big one, too. How would his plan go?
I think House said he knew all along about Yes Man and his plan, but would he just ignore it (like he ignores the possibility that the Courier might go for the Independent ending)? Benny was only stopped because the Courier had a personal vendetta against him. Would Ulysses still go after Benny in revenge, and try to finish his job delivering the chip? Which one of Benny's endings happens here? If he gets to Legion lines, would the former-Legion Ulysses do something different than what the Courier could do?
Knowing what the chip does, and still being somewhat loyal to Caesar, would he go through with activating/upgrading the Fort's Securitrons, or could he, being a trusted member of the Frumentarii, go to Caesar, who would listen to him?
Benny attempts to ambush Ulysses and take the platinum chip. Ulysses catches the bullet in his teeth and rams a flagpole through Benny, while shouting something about how the great must bear history so that the sun may bleach the deserts of the pastchumpmercenary to save the President, but based on what's presented, he probably remains a major player in the mojave regardless, and the ending most closely resembles House's ending.Asok: Shouldn't we actually be working?
And then Asok was thrown out of the car.
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2014-09-16, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
SpoilerEx-Frumentaari that grew disillusioned with the Legion and decided to make a town called The Divide his new home. Unfortunately, the Legion and NCR both noticed The Divide, which was built on top of underground nuclear missile silos. The NCR hired the Courier to deliver a package to The Divide, which contained the launch codes for some of those silos. The Divide got destroyed, and Ulysses became obsessed with you. Then, in his campaign to impress upon The Courier the unforeseen consequences of their actions, he told Elijah where the Sierra Madre was, unwittingly giving him the means to murder dozens of people (Dead Money), he armed the White Legs and accidentally turned them into a powerful raiding party that leveled a city (Honest Hearts), and nearly caused a 1950's B-movie sci-fi apocalypse by shaking the Think Tank, some incredibly intelligent old-war scientists that could take over the world with their 'experimentation.' By accidentally shaking them out of their routine, of course. And at the end of Lonesome Road, he tries to nuke the Legion and NCR back to the Stone Age, because he's decided that they aren't worthy of carrying the symbols of the Old World or some crap.
So, long story short, he's an obnoxious hypocrite that causes a LOT of problems that you, personally, have to fix.
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2014-09-16, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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- Those Meadows of Heaven
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
I read something somewhere once that made a pretty big deal about how Joshua Graham says "/ˈsiːzər/" like non-Legion people, showing how he considers himself completely unaffiliated with Caesar, while Ulysses still says "/ˈkaizar/" like a loyal legionary, even though he's on his own out in the wastelands.
I also kind of forgot the Caesar actually wants you blow up the Securitrons under the fort, and just decides you did what he told you to do, instead of upgrading them. Because Caesar is an idiot.
To be fair, you did cause Ulysses some problems. *cough cough*divide*cough*nuclearexplosionseverywhere*cou gh*
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2014-09-16, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
If you build your community on top of a nuclear missile silo, you don't get to complain when a nuclear missile goes off.
In seriousness though, the courier was just a delivery boy/girl. Ulysses just picked you to fixate on, instead of, say, the person that wrapped the package, or the person that ordered the delivery, or the person that accepted the delivery... It's like Cole from Infamous. He had no idea what he was being asked to deliver, and he had no idea it was dangerous until he woke up in a 3-block-wide crater.
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2014-09-17, 12:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Yeah, not really. The NCR doesn't go around crucifiying and raping, even if they're not always nice, and often clumsy. The Khans? Yeah, sure, but they're upfront about it, there's little ideology aside from "Live free or die hard". Same for the poweder gangers, they're bandits, not crusaders. House and the Brotherhood, yeah, sure, but the BoS is already declining because they face the mess their ideology has brought them into. The many raiders are just crazy. That doesn't mean they're neccessarily better than the Legion but at least they don't put up a front of fancy latin words and ideology while they nail you to a cross.
Si non confectus, non reficiat.
The beautiful girl is courtesy of Serpentine
My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!
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2014-09-17, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Like I said, he absolutely sympathizes with them. He still points nukes at Legion territory though, so he's clearly not loyal.
[linkTo be fair, you did cause Ulysses some problems. *cough cough*divide*cough*nuclearexplosionseverywhere*cou gh*Asok: Shouldn't we actually be working?
And then Asok was thrown out of the car.
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2014-09-17, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Part of Ulysses' deal with the Courier is that the supply line and later settlement at The Divide largely prospered because of the Courier, beating the trail through it and giving the settlement there reason to exist as a stopping point along this trail he'd largely created.
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2014-09-17, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Spoiler
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2014-09-17, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Land of Stone and Stars
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Right in the overview but I read the details differently.
SpoilerThe Courier knew about the divide first, and it was a valuable secret. A quick and safe way between NCR and the Mojave? That's a powerful advantage and the Courier did well because it. "He" caught the attention of Ulysses, who couldn't tell if the Courier was legit or a Frumentaari like himself (many couriers were, apparently), and so he followed the Courier into the Divide and found he liked what he found there. Made a home there.
Then the Courier came back through on another trip and dropped off a broken eyebot as he passed through. Somebody fixed it and the first thing it did was try to connect to the computers in the area. Apparently the Divide was built over a massive missile silo that didn't get used in the war, and the eyebot's attempts to connect with the silo's computers set off a launch command, nuking the community from below. Ulysses was in an autodoc at the time, which is the only reason he survived more or less unharmed.
Ulysses was left homeless again, but his time in the Divide had changed him. The Divide inspired him to believe that there was a better way than the NCR or Legion, and he set off on a quest of discovery - both of himself and history. He originally took the House job, but dropped it immediately when he saw the Courier's name on the list - why isn't clear, but Nash thinks he knew enough about the job to think it'd get the Courier killed. He went to the Big MT and talked to the Think Tank, asking Dr. Klein questions that the scientist chose to forget rather than leave lingering in his mind, questions about what made the old world work, what a society needs, that sort of thing. In the end, he doesn't find an answer he likes and decides to wipe the slate clean and begin again. First, however, he needed to face the Courier again, make "him" see the results of careless actions, and decide the fate of three cultures in the room where the Courier accidentally destroyed the only peace Ulysses ever knew.
Ulysses is pretty much exactly like the Courier, you see. He had a life before, but it was only when that life ended that he found the fire. Two bullets to the temple turned a freelance postal worker into an unstoppable freight train that would reshape the world in "his" wake. A nuclear inferno turned a weary and disillusioned tribal-turned-spy into a driven zealot intent on finding a way restore a world long dead and - barring that - get revenge on the Courier that destroyed his last vestige of peace. Both of them came back from the brink of oblivion and used their loss to give them focus and drive that neither had before.
And, yeah. I can never kill the man when it comes down to it. Much as I might want to hate him, he's a no less a victim than the Courier. Benny? Now Benny I just want to teach a lesson: if you're going to shoot someone in the head, use a larger caliber.Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2014-09-17, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
I have to be honest, it doesn't sound like you're disagreeing with what I said. This was never a direct comparison of all the factions to Legion; they're all bad in their own ways, and they all bully those they can, while masquerading behind specific ideologies.
NCR - Pushes in territory they have no claim to, aside from the mandate to bring civilization (and heavy taxation and lax oversight due to over-expansion). Their overbearing approach has been talked to death here and elsewhere.
House - Feels he OWNS Vegas. As in, people, buildings, services. His will in that little domain is absolute. If you do something he doesn't like, he's absolutely not above killing you to make a point.
Kings - A low-scale bully, to be sure. People seem to think that Pacer is the only anti-NCR sentiment driver in the entire organization, but I see it differently. In endings where Kings don't get much Courier involvement and NCR isn't driven from the region, the discrimination against NCR citizens continues on a wide front. If The King was such an enlightened and capable leader (as portrayed), he'd have some visibility into the rank-and-file sentiment and be able to adjust his people's approach to it. As it is, he's largely impotent to determine the direction the rest of his gang takes OR he doesn't actually care about non-Freesiders and does act against them in preference to his own people. In the end it translates to a gang of toughs pushing around a segment of the population for reasons of philosophy.
Khans - Speak to any of the disillusioned former Khans (Novac, Camp McCarren, Bitter Springs caves) and ask them about the Khans. All will admit that they are not nice people who did not-nice things. Some will even confirm that Bitter Springs massacre was essentially what they had coming for a long time. The Khans are a raider gang who raid for the purity of their raiding purpose. It's not a question of survival; they just really liked to mess with NCR civilians and caravans. Being up-front about being raiders doesn't make them less of a bully.
BoS - The "well-armed techno-raiders" endings typically speak for themselves. There's been as much discussion about this as the NCR.
Powder Gangers - The whole faction is based on two principles: (1) We have explosives and (2) F--- the NCR. Despite (2), it doesn't stop them from assaulting Goodsprings, trying to kill whoever passes on the roads they've claimed, and (in the endings where you don't wipe them out) become an unpleasant fact of life for caravans from NCR to the Mojave. I suppose I don't understand if your objection is that raiders aren't bullies or that they don't have a philosophy to justify their violence. Sometimes the philosophy for a raider group is as simple as "I'm stronger than you and I want what you have."
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2014-09-17, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
From a Chris Avvelvlone forum post
Spoiler: Why the NCR mails something to the Divide
Originally Posted by ChrisLast edited by shadow_archmagi; 2014-09-17 at 02:53 PM.
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2014-09-17, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Spoiler: Hmmmm...The way Ulysses talks in the game, he blames the Courier for directly making the connection between markings and the Divide and then making the journey entirely of the Courier's accord. Then again, I suppose it's a convenient lie he tells himself in order to focus all blame on one person.
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2014-09-17, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
I just thought it was interesting because the prior summary had mentioned that the NCR sent the detonator, but that seemed like a very strange action for them to take. Deliberately exploding the Divide when it was full of their own soldiers seems out of character for them.
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2014-09-17, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
It was an accident. As far as I know, no one suspected that it would cause troubles, or the device would have been kept very far away from the Divide.
~grumbles~ Now I want to replay New Vegas.Last edited by Sharoth; 2014-09-17 at 05:33 PM.
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2014-09-17, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Why don't we go full on Road Warrior and do Fallout: Australia?
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2014-09-17, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2013
Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
My bad for not clarifying. But the short of it is that (from my interpretation) since he couldn't accept a city he cared for being destroyed by pure chance, he decided that the Courier was responsible. And since one person was responsible for altering the course of a nation so dramatically, it empowered him to nuke both the Legion and NCR since he deemed them unworthy of building the New World by using symbols of the Old World.
If I missed any points, someone please correct me. After a while, his dialogue kind of faded into "Divide Bull and Bear of the Old World, COURIER."
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2014-09-17, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
The kings are a bit more nuanced than just "bully", or at least I believe so.
The kings don't stand for House or the Legion or the NCR, they stand for the one little stretch of land that calls itself Freeside. Remember, while Freeside LOOKS "normal" is really isn't. Every adult there was born a tribal with nothing to speak of and the bulk of the town is one step removed from the Fiends or Jackals or Khans, and it doesn't take much for them to revert, which is why you constantly get mugged.
The pompadours, leather jackets, and flipping blades aren't there because they look cool: They're unifying elements. Everyone who becomes a King basically has to cast off their unique tribal gear and weapons and take on a universal style and work with their old enemies to protect people in groups they may have been at war with just a generation ago. Which is why there aren't more Kings, even the King himself says not everyone has what it takes to make that commitment.
The NCR may not be in open war with them, but it is a force that they can't just peacefully reconcile with on their own. They're outsiders competing with them over resources that could go to those they swore to protect, coming into their territory uninvited, and using Vegas as their playground while dumping their crap in Freeside.
For the NCR to flood their land with settlers, take up huge chunks of the clean water, enforce their will with armed soldiers, and then accuse them of being the problem is basically forcing someone to apologize for getting punched in the face.
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2014-09-19, 06:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
Don't know about anyone else, but I find Ulysses conversation ends with BOOM-Splat. The sound of a .50 cal passing through his head. He doesn't have anything I want to hear, so I just don't listen.
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2014-09-19, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
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2014-09-19, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fallout Fluff Forum - Plasma Guns, Power Armors, Mutants and Tribals, no it's not
In that aspect, perhaps, except they're entirely voluntary about it.
Though have a cookie for giving me the mental image of an alternate New Vegas where the Kings are the hostile group invading from the other side of the Colorado.
"This here Cottonwood Cove is Kings' Turf. Scram!"
"Look, we own the land and we want the dam, ya dig?"