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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr._Blinky View Post
    It has no ability damage immunity, or spell resistance, so neither would be a problem. The problem would be getting in a situation where you could actually do this without getting killed. And assuming you find one, since I'm sure one exists, what then? It still isn't dead, and I can't think of any way to kill it.
    No ability damage immunity? No problem! Here's the team.
    • Beguiler 20
    • Warblade 17
    • Books: Spell Compendium, Tome of Battle, PHB 2, (Complete Adventurer?)
    Step one, obviously, is the Beguiler unleashing Ray of Stupidity on the beast. He bypasses SR (which this creature doesn't seem to have anyway), instantly knocking the turtle out.

    Now comes the Warblade. One maneuver is all he needs: Mountain Tombstone Strike (Stone Dragon 9). His main hand holds... you know what, let's say it holds nothing. He'll punch the turtle. His off-hand, on the other hand, holds a wand of Wraithstrike (4500 gp, Complete Adventurer; might be reprinted in Spell Compendium). He activates the wand as a swift action, meaning his attacks resolve as touch attacks; he should have no trouble hitting an AC of -4 million. With his standard action, he uses Mountain Tombstone Strike, dealing 2d6 Con damage, no save. His next turn, he uses a swift action to initiate recovery and spends a standard action posing like a badass to finish recovery. Rinse and repeat.

    He can launch a MTS every other round, meaning he deals about 3.5 Con damage per round. The turtle has 107 Con. Thus, he needs 31 turns to reach 0 Con, slaying the creature. This amounts to about 16 strikes, meaning he can roll a natural one 34 times without running out of wand power.

    Alternatively, the Warblade could be Wiz 3/Clr 1/Any Martial Adept 16 and just use DMM: Persist to have a 24 hour Wraithstrike, avoiding the need for the wand altogether.

    So yeah, there you go, a means to elbow drop a CR 84k creature to death in under 5 minutes. Enjoy.

    Edit: Whoops, just saw the errata on DMM; divine spells only. Can Anyspell nonsense dodge that? That would make Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator work, I think. Alternatively, there's apparently a DMG 2 item that splits a spell's effects between the caster and another character while cutting the duration in half. A Wiz 3/Clr 1 could DMM: Persist that and split it with the Warblade, as well.
    Last edited by Merlin the Tuna; 2007-03-12 at 11:47 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    Wish? I wish this turtle no longer exists.
    Yeah, Wish doesn't work like that, at least not without a save. Which this thing happens to happens to have in the millions.

    Quote Originally Posted by marjan View Post
    Take 20 on finger of death?
    And I suppose taking 20 is really supposed to get past its saves? Oh, and you can't take 20 on a spell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Mann View Post
    See, first, the turtle would have to recognize you as dangerous before you cast the spell. I don't see that happening. If, for some reason, there's a reason it would, you can turn yourself invisible first. With its spot +1, there's not much chance it'd see you.

    Granted, figuring out a way to kill it after that is going to be difficult, but you can pretty much keep unconscious by recasting the spell each time it wakes up (when it heals one point of intelligence after resting). Again, invisibility is your friend here.

    Now, A'Tuin might be protected by the people living on the Discworld, but that's a separate issue. By itself, it's quite vulnerable to this tactic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin the Tuna View Post
    No ability damage immunity? No problem! Here's the team.
    • Beguiler 20
    • Warblade 17
    • Books: Spell Compendium, Tome of Battle, PHB 2, (Complete Adventurer?)
    Step one, obviously, is the Beguiler unleashing Ray of Stupidity on the beast. He bypasses SR (which this creature doesn't seem to have anyway), instantly knocking the turtle out.

    Now comes the Warblade. One maneuver is all he needs: Mountain Tombstone Strike (Stone Dragon 9). His main hand holds... you know what, let's say it holds nothing. He'll punch the turtle. His off-hand, on the other hand, holds a wand of Wraithstrike (4500 gp, Complete Adventurer; might be reprinted in Spell Compendium). He activates the wand as a swift action, meaning his attacks resolve as touch attacks; he should have no trouble hitting an AC of -4. With his standard action, he uses Mountain Tombstone Strike, dealing 2d6 Con damage, no save. His next turn, he uses a swift action to initiate recovery and spends a standard action posing like a badass to finish recovery. Rinse and repeat.

    He can launch a MTS every other round, meaning he deals about 3.5 Con damage per round. The turtle has 107 Con. Thus, he needs 31 turns to reach 0 Con, slaying the creature. This amounts to about 16 strikes, meaning he can roll a natural one 34 times without running out of wand power.

    Alternatively, the Warblade could be Wiz 3/Clr 1/Any Martial Adept 16 and just use DMM: Persist to have a 24 hour Wraithstrike, avoiding the need for the wand altogether.

    So yeah, there you go, a means to elbow drop a CR 84k creature to death in under 5 minutes. Enjoy.

    Edit: Whoops, just saw the errata on DMM; divine spells only. Can Anyspell nonsense dodge that? That would make Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator work, I think. Alternatively, there's apparently a DMG 2 item that splits a spell's effects between the caster and another character while cutting the duration in half. A Wiz 3/Clr 1 could DMM: Persist that and split it with the Warblade, as well.
    See, these two actually work, and prove that the turtle, being just a massive mound of HP, is actually severely underpowed for its level. I've seen a number of different examples of Epic creatures like this. One of the problems with Epic warriors is that once you get to a certain point, hitting stuff with metal becomes pretty futile, whereas a mage can just flick you off and you'll spontaneously combust.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin the Tuna View Post
    Step one, obviously, is the Beguiler unleashing Ray of Stupidity on the beast. He bypasses SR (which this creature doesn't seem to have anyway), instantly knocking the turtle out.
    A'tuin uses his Exceptional Infinite Reflection to send it right back at you.

    The rest assumes A'tuin can't hit back, so I don't need to find flaws in it yet.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    And I suppose taking 20 is really supposed to get past its saves? Oh, and you can't take 20 on a spell.
    That was a joke and by the way it means you just cast the spell until it gets a natural 1. But before that you cast ray of stupidity.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    A'tuin uses his Exceptional Infinite Reflection to send it right back at you.
    Ah, good catch. Luckily, since the thing doesn't actually have SR, we don't need a Beguiler. Swap the Beguiler out for a basic gish; Spellsword 4 will take care of that with Channel Spell, and he can supply his own Wraithstrike to connect. Spell Storing weapons would also work, but they specifically state that the creature must take damage for the spell to discharge. This could be bypassed by making the weapon a Wounding weapon, which incidentally would speed up this process quite a bit anyway, especially if we add a few more Warblade levels and snag Time Stands Still. Wounding gets stopped by immunity to crits, but I don't see that on the turtle's sheet.

    Edit: New toy! New toy! We don't need Ray of Stupidity (and thus Spell Compendium) at all! Otto's Irresistible Dance will do the job better. Since it causes the target to draw AoOs on its turn, we can get more Wounding swipes in!

    Man, I might end up putting together a 4 man party to see how quickly I can do this.
    Last edited by Merlin the Tuna; 2007-03-13 at 12:02 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Attilargh View Post
    So... A Pseudonatural Celestial Fiendish Half-Fiend Half-Giant Half-Troll Half-Illithid Ti-Khana Chimeric Tauric Voidmind Titanic Lich Vampiric Half-Celestial, Half Gold Dragon, Half Silver Dragon, Half Copper Dragon, Half Bronze Dragon, Half Amethyst Dragon, Half White Dragon, Half Red Dragon, Half Black Dragon, Half Blue Dragon, Half Green Dragon, Half Brass Dragon Half-Fey Half-Golem (all) Woodling Draconic Were-Tarrasque Paragon of Legend
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maryring View Post
    The most powerful monster in DnD? The DM of course.
    DMs are so broken, they should be houseruled out of any fair game.
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  8. - Top - End - #68

    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    A'tuin uses his Exceptional Infinite Reflection to send it right back at you.
    You can't do that when you're flatfooted.

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bears With Lasers View Post
    You can't do that when you're flatfooted.
    Deflect Arrows actually doesn't require an immediate action; it's got no restrictions on when it can and can't be used.
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    It doesn't require an action, but it does say you have to be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

    Easily fixed, though, by giving it uncanny dodge and maybe Supreme Initiative. It snatches meteors and comets, so it makes sense.
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    That still wouldn't stop the Spellsword channeling Ray of Stupidity, though. What it really needs is immunity, or at least a lot of resistance, to ability damage and drain because those bypass its hit dice. Energy drain isn't really an issue because it has millions upon millions of hit dice to just absorb it with. I'd say make up some epic feats that reduce ability damage/drain in general, rather than just from radiation poisoning, and change some of the twenty million Epic Toughness feats to those. The requirements can be outlandishly high and still be easily satisfied by the liberal application of Great X or other epic feats, which this turtle certainly has enough feat slots to spare to spend on. Something to remove auto-fail on 1 for saves should also be added.
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Chuck Norris.

    CR Infinite (As he counted himself. Twice.)


    IIRC there is a post about him somewhere on this board.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    What it really needs is some divine rank. That solves a lot of its problems, right there.
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charity View Post
    Nice one Jack'o'bear... Man with lasers.

    So given that the most powerful monster is the last one we made up out of templates, whats the most overpowered for its CR?
    Where'd the Ikea Tarrasque go when you need him?

    What was the minimum CR that they ever got the Ikea Tarrasque down to? Like 4, wasn't it?

    (A creature that actually doesn't have to have anything in common with the tarrasque except fire immunity. By adding a few clever templates (including Swarm, I think), it becomes completely invulnerable. Immune to everything. Yeah.

    Good thing its offensive capabilities don't get boosted much. So unless you started with a high-CR something, like the Tarrasque, you probably just have a stalemate encounter.)
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    I didn't even have to restrict a search to these boards, the very first hit on an unrestricted google search for "Ikea Tarrasque", even without the quotes, is the correct thread. For just +7 CR, this combination of templates grants pretty damn close to total invulnerability, and the strength boost plus berserk, Haste, and wounding attacks keep its offensive punch at least within shouting distance of typical for its supposed CR.
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  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belkarseviltwin View Post
    Now to roll up a character that can kill this thing....:bigeek:
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeWizard View Post
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Mage View Post
    Now to roll up a character that can kill this thing....:bigeek:
    Read this thread, it's already been figured out. All you have to do is 2 points of Int damage with no save and then you can Coup De Gras him 20ish times (he'll roll that natural 1 eventually) or otherwise kill him while he's helpless.

    JaronK

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    The most powerful monster?

    The DM.

  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Meh, just saw how easily you guys killed it. How about you add the paragon and psuedonatural templates onto it and then see how easily you can kill it.

    Thats a SR of 1,006,632,960.

    A TON of tentacles too... 50,331,648 to be exact
    Last edited by Black Mage; 2007-03-13 at 05:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeWizard View Post
    Jade Phoenix Mages have the coolest capstone ability ever. They explode. Low on health? explode. Surrounded? expolde. Outsiders? explode. Explode? explode. Come back a few rounds later with all your hp.
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  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Again, a Beguiler 20 can bypass SR.

    Problem solved.

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  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    What about tossing the half golem template on it then? Doesn't that grant you the magic immunity of whatever golem you are half of? I don't have the books with me at the moment so I can't check myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeWizard View Post
    Jade Phoenix Mages have the coolest capstone ability ever. They explode. Low on health? explode. Surrounded? expolde. Outsiders? explode. Explode? explode. Come back a few rounds later with all your hp.
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  22. - Top - End - #82

    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    The golem's "magic immunity" is actually just infinite SR.
    When you can bypass SR...

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    No, RAW, a golem's spell immunity is NOT just "SR infinity."

    A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance.
    So, it would be a perfectly valid DM interperetation for a Beguiler 20 vs. a Golem to say, "The spell itself allows SR. Therefore, even though you are bypassing SR when you cast it, you are not bypassing the Golem's immunity to this spell."

    Of course, he could rule the other way just as legally. It seems both interperetations have equal merit to me.

    This is all assuming that the Beguiler ability doesn't clarify the issue explicitly.
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  24. - Top - End - #84

    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Hmm, I seem to recall the phrase "unbeatable SR" from somewhere...

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Mage View Post
    Now to roll up a character that can kill this thing....:bigeek:
    For a real challenge, try building a character that can kill an Ikea Tarrasque version of it. Does anyone want to calculate just how many Disintigrates, Move Earths, etc. would be needed to pull it off?
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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bears With Lasers View Post
    Hmm, I seem to recall the phrase "unbeatable SR" from somewhere...
    People who dont understand what "Magic Immunity" is. Because theres a different S.Q. caled Immune to Magic that is essentially unbeatable SR.

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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    A well prepared Prismatic Dragon is invincible. Sure, he goes down with a spell to drain Dex or something like that, but that's only if you catch him unpreprared. If he knows your'e coming, which will be the most probable option, he will buff himself before engaging with the party.
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Well, I've been toying with the idea of a phrenic Hive Mother. I realized that a beholder's eye rays are free actions so anything that adds spell-like or psionic-like abilities doesn't run into problems with running out of actions:

    Round 1: 6 eye rays at a single target (could be more than one), fission
    Round 2: 12 eye rays at a single target (could be more than one), two ultrablasts

    And I'm pretty sure this only increases its CR by 3 from 16 to 19. You should NOT be able to use that many save or die abilities of DC 29 in a round at CR 19. Ever.
    Last edited by Thrawn183; 2007-03-14 at 07:50 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    So Batman is a Prismatic Dragon?
    i am going to make it through this year
    if it kills me
    i am going to make it though this year
    if it kills me

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    Default Re: THE most powerful monster?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    So Batman is a Prismatic Dragon?
    Maybe
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