Fanfiction themes that creep you out.

[8BitNinja]

It sounds like you are maybe taking a small sample of bad experiences and making broad generalizations from them? Again? Only this time you've already done the equivalent of watching Record of Lodoss War and you still decided the entire category sucks.


This is a learnable skill. I'd say you actually did a decent job of expressing your dislike in the above quote. The main issue has been that your initial statements of dislike are over-general and under-explained, forcing you to backtrack and qualify yourself as people pick away at your initial assertion. You can improve this by reviewing your experience of the thing you dislike and trying to specifically describe that, instead of using a broad label that doesn't necessarily reflect your experience.

1. That was the one that made me stop, not nessicarily the only one. There was some other creepy stuff I read, it just wasn't explicit content

2. I'm working on it, and hopefully this forum will help, but that still doesn't change the fact that I read some stuff that scarred my mind

[The_Snark]

How is what I said considered hateful, I never targeted anyone when I said this, I just said that I don't like certain things. Am I not allowed too have opinions?

Yes, but the way you stated it has a certain amount of... I can't think of a better way to put it than implied homophobia? I should make it clear, I'm not trying to accuse you here, just explain why you got that reaction. Yaoi is (as far as I know) fiction centered around gay male sex/relationships; it's pretty easy to interpret "I find (fiction about this subject) disgusting" as "I find (this subject) disgusting", if you don't elaborate on why. It doesn't help that you stated it as fact rather than opinion - "I find (subject) disgusting" is even easier to read badly.

(In general, calling something disgusting/creepy/etc is likely to offend people who do enjoy that sort of thing, so I usually avoid putting it in those terms unless I'm pretty sure it's warranted.)

[The Glyphstone]

Yes, but the way you stated it has a certain amount of... I can't think of a better way to put it than implied homophobia? I should make it clear, I'm not trying to accuse you here, just explain why you got that reaction. Yaoi is (as far as I know) fiction centered around gay male sex/relationships; it's pretty easy to interpret "I find (fiction about this subject) disgusting" as "I find (this subject) disgusting", if you don't elaborate on why. It doesn't help that you stated it as fact rather than opinion - "I find (subject) disgusting" is even easier to read badly.

(In general, calling something disgusting/creepy/etc is likely to offend people who do enjoy that sort of thing, so I usually avoid putting it in those terms unless I'm pretty sure it's warranted.)

To be fair, you can find yaoi very creepy while still being pro-LGBT, or at least not anti-LGBT. The particular flavor of seme/uke relationship that the genre idolizes is...not for everyone.

[John Cribati]

I'm alright with most sex scenes. I mean, provided it isn't too fetishy, I can leave it alone and it can leave me alone.

But then I saw a story tagged both "Underage" and "Dubious Consent." I refrained from opening it, as it apparently involved two of the sweetest cinnamon roll children to have graced a screen in years, but my faith in humanity took a rather large blow nontheless.

[Akisa]

Wait. There's non-male/male Slash? What makes it Slash then?

You are tearing me apart!

Where is that from?

[The_Snark]

To be fair, you can find yaoi very creepy while still being pro-LGBT, or at least not anti-LGBT. The particular flavor of seme/uke relationship that the genre idolizes is...not for everyone.

Oh, certainly. Like I said, elaborating on why it creeps you out can help.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

That thing where they take children's or family properties and make them "adult". I don't get it. If you want something darker and more mature why don't you just graduate to something darker and more mature?

[BannedInSchool]

[...] "promotion" of Muggleborn Wizards like Hermione into having secretly been Purebloods all along. Because that was the point of Harry Potter. Pure magical bloodlines being important.

There are also non-fanfic "secretly royalty" stories that sabotage the message that it shouldn't matter with the characters being revealed at the end to have been royalty all along. The same thing happens with other message. Once the characters learn that X isn't as important as they thought, they get X as a reward for learning that.

[8BitNinja]

Yes, but the way you stated it has a certain amount of... I can't think of a better way to put it than implied homophobia? I should make it clear, I'm not trying to accuse you here, just explain why you got that reaction. Yaoi is (as far as I know) fiction centered around gay male sex/relationships; it's pretty easy to interpret "I find (fiction about this subject) disgusting" as "I find (this subject) disgusting", if you don't elaborate on why. It doesn't help that you stated it as fact rather than opinion - "I find (subject) disgusting" is even easier to read badly.

(In general, calling something disgusting/creepy/etc is likely to offend people who do enjoy that sort of thing, so I usually avoid putting it in those terms unless I'm pretty sure it's warranted.)

It wasn't just the fact that it was male on male sex that made it disturbing for me, it was some really messed up stuff that I don't want to talk about on this forum, or ever. This was also at a time where I didn't know about internet/anime slang, so how was I supposed to know it was that?

Also, this is not the place to talk about where I stand if I am for or against homosexuality. If you want to find that out, I'm pretty sure the only way you can do that on this forum is to PM me, which I can reply to or ignore. But if you really did want to know, I would reply

[YossarianLives]

@8BitNinja

What seems like about half of your posts that I see on this forum involve you bluntly saying how horrible and disgusting something is without providing any reasoning behind why you hate it so much.

That said, I apologize for my outburst earlier. It was unprovoked and incredibly rude.

Also, the first post I saw of yours on this forum was you heavily implying that you were offended by this forum having an LGBT thread, so you might be able to understand where I was coming from. I probably wouldn't have thought twice about your post if you hadn't used the word 'disgusting'.

[Traab]

Aside from the Slash Fic, and Porn of stuff (Which I have looked at and read some of, will admit that), the main thing that creeps me out is the "My Little Pony"-Ification of nearly every series in which the characters are changed into ponies that you would encounter in that show, which not everyone actually ever watched.

It gets done in crossovers or as the show actually happening so that the "My Little Pony" effect can play full bore. It's disturbing on many levels.

The other thing is the sheer number of Buffy the Vampire Slayer crossovers. I'm sorry, but that show wasn't exactly that great in my mind, but really, crossing it with everything possible?

One of the things is ease of crossover. There are many examples, Naruto has his "Pulled random item out of the forbidden scroll" to introduce a crossover element into the story, or the more random "Seal work woopsie caused so and so to appear in such and such world" Its an easy justification for creating a crossover with anything you want. In buffy, the single most common crossover method is the infamous halloween costume episode fairly early on. In the tv show everyone turned into their costume. Xander became a soldier, willow a ghost, buffy became a useless old world noblewoman who still somehow understood modern american english. That sort of thing. Well in fanfiction terms this is a gold mine. "Ok, so xander (or whoever) dressed up as THIS character. Now due to chaos, they kept the memories, abilities, or were somehow sent to that world instead." I have seen xander be a jedi, a highlander, an immortal vampire/highlander hybrid with magical powers, turn into supergirl, iron man, data from star trek, iron fist, a large number of random mutants from various xmen realities, sesshomaru from inuyasha, the list goes on and on. I have also seen him sent to most of these universes because blah blah chaos blah blah powers that be dont like him, whatever.

Honestly, it wasnt an amazingly awesome show, but btvs was pretty good overall, so im not surprised it gets plenty of fanfic crossover attention. Hell, the halloween episode is just the biggest contributor, you also have random magical portals and dimensional break downs that take place during the shows history to easily justify whatever you want.

[Hiro Protagonest]

That thing where they take children's or family properties and make them "adult". I don't get it. If you want something darker and more mature why don't you just graduate to something darker and more mature?

Some children's entertainment concepts work really well as more mature series. Pokemon is one that fascinates me, being about spiritual bonds between powerful monsters and humans (you don't even have to change much, just look at the pokedex entries of various ghost-types sometime). Though I have Pokemon Adventures for that (which is similar in tone to Fullmetal Alchemist manga/Brotherhood).

[Lethologica]

Honestly, it wasnt an amazingly awesome show, but btvs was pretty good overall, so im not surprised it gets plenty of fanfic crossover attention. Hell, the halloween episode is just the biggest contributor, you also have random magical portals and dimensional break downs that take place during the shows history to easily justify whatever you want.

For that matter, I'd say fanfic also benefits from problematic elements in canon, whether it's the problem of Susan, or the fridge horror of the Harry Potter universe, or BtVS focusing on Xander, etc. It gives a ready justification for writing and seeking out fanfic that 'fixes' those elements.

[8BitNinja]

@8BitNinja

What seems like about half of your posts that I see on this forum involve you bluntly saying how horrible and disgusting something is without providing any reasoning behind why you hate it so much.

That said, I apologize for my outburst earlier. It was unprovoked and incredibly rude.

Also, the first post I saw of yours on this forum was you heavily implying that you were offended by this forum having an LGBT thread, so you might be able to understand where I was coming from. I probably wouldn't have thought twice about your post if you hadn't used the word 'disgusting'.

I'm sorry for coming across as one who hates the world. I am under a lot of stress lately and have been using this forum to vent my anger. I try to be a nice person and I should go back to not being so negative about things.

Also, the reason why I said that I thought yaoi was disgusting was (besides not being into male on male stuff) that the only time I read something like that was because the words written were perverse and not normal by any definition the world has known for normal. This isn't because of something that I think about homosexuality, it was about other things. I can't really provide proof because I forgot the title and forgot what characters were specifically involved (although I do know it was a Legend of Zelda story), but the actions described were not something I would even think most people would even find gross. This was pretty much the last straw for me in fanfiction, amidst the crappy writing, crappy stories, and crappy concepts that aren't creative, there was this gem "Some male zelda character/some male zelda character messed up, fetishy lemon"

I've actually actively went out of my way to try to forget it. This is stuff that makes people cringe

Plus if I knew internet slang back then, I would've avoided it

I'm done with putting down things that other people like, I apologize to all I have offended on the playground. It was rude, selfish, and wrong. I came on this forum to join a positive and uplifting community, and I am scarring the name of it, if any threads I made ever offended you, I will remove them, same with comments

And Masterknuffle, you shouldn't apologize, what I did was wrong

[McStabbington]

One of the things is ease of crossover. There are many examples, Naruto has his "Pulled random item out of the forbidden scroll" to introduce a crossover element into the story, or the more random "Seal work woopsie caused so and so to appear in such and such world" Its an easy justification for creating a crossover with anything you want. In buffy, the single most common crossover method is the infamous halloween costume episode fairly early on. In the tv show everyone turned into their costume. Xander became a soldier, willow a ghost, buffy became a useless old world noblewoman who still somehow understood modern american english. That sort of thing. Well in fanfiction terms this is a gold mine. "Ok, so xander (or whoever) dressed up as THIS character. Now due to chaos, they kept the memories, abilities, or were somehow sent to that world instead." I have seen xander be a jedi, a highlander, an immortal vampire/highlander hybrid with magical powers, turn into supergirl, iron man, data from star trek, iron fist, a large number of random mutants from various xmen realities, sesshomaru from inuyasha, the list goes on and on. I have also seen him sent to most of these universes because blah blah chaos blah blah powers that be dont like him, whatever.

Honestly, it wasnt an amazingly awesome show, but btvs was pretty good overall, so im not surprised it gets plenty of fanfic crossover attention. Hell, the halloween episode is just the biggest contributor, you also have random magical portals and dimensional break downs that take place during the shows history to easily justify whatever you want.

I'm not certain it's ease of crossover, so much as the same factor that makes any drama great drama: whether it informs the character. Those "Due to chaos, Buffy gets crossed with X" stories exist in huge quantities, but they usually fall flat largely because the point of the story is to take a character that people don't like (usually Xander, which I'm not exactly against to start) because he's the unpowered character of the group (which I am against, because Heart can be a great superpower, and my misgivings about Xander are less about the value of Heart than he was so often bad at being Heart) and replace him with a different character that does have superpowers, only different. Which falls flat because if there was one thing the Scooby Gang needed, it was not usually more superpowers. Between Buffy, Willow, and whatever sidekick they had that season, they usually had more than enough muscle for the job. What they usually needed was less dysfunction and someone with a better head on his shoulders who add a little wisdom into the mix. They, much like Xander himself, need Guinan rather than Batman.

Which plays into my big issue with the things I find creepy: it's not so much the exploitation, though I do find exploitation very problematic. It's that so often, the point of the exercise is all about exploitation. I mean, just to use an example: "old guy goes back into younger self via magic and along the way gets it on with a young friend" describes a huge amount of very, very disturbing fanfic. It also describes one of my absolute favorite episodes of Star Trek: The Next Generation. It's called "Tapestry," and I don't find it creepy at all. And I think the reason why I don't find it very creepy is partly because of the way the story worked out. That "young friend" is in her early-to-mid twenties, just finished with the TNG equivalent of college, so she's clearly capable of consent. But more importantly, the point of the story wasn't that Picard always wanted to hook up with his friend. The point was that Picard had entirely different concerns, and the romance was merely a subplot of Picard working through his own issues and coming to a new understanding about the youthful jackassery that he so loathed about himself. That informed us the audience about Picard, it informed us about ourselves, and it taught what I think is a great moral lesson without being didactic. That was the theme of the episode, and because the emphasis was the theme, I can flat-out ignore any structural similarities to those very disturbing stories.

I really think there could be some great fanfic if the writers just tried to explore more than "getting with an eleven-year old". I mean, I just stopped to brainstorm for maybe five minutes about the idea of "old Harry Potter goes back to eleven-year old Harry's mind", and it occurs to me that there are fantastic possibilities in there if you get past the horrifying stuff. Just suppose for a moment that the HP-verse is a multiverse, and this is not so much "Old Harry Potter" as a Harry Potter that lived a different possibility that wants to make a change. Okay, so what's the change? Maybe the OHP (Old Harry Potter) made the pick in the train car to side with Malfoy rather than Ron. It would be an easy choice to make. Ron is clearly an out character, Malfoy is doing exactly what most kids would do at eleven, and let's be honest, I could easily see myself making that choice at eleven. I think a lot of people could. So let's game out the consequences: things ultimately turned up similarly in that Harry somehow found out about the Horcruxes and destroyed them, defeating Voldemort (screw you if you say that can't happen because X: it's my fanfic and I'm just playing with story ideas here). But in this case, it was more a more competitive and ambitious Harry that beat Voldemort, and did so for reasons of vengeance and desire rather than out of typical Gryffindor traits like bravery. And this Harry is, as a consequence of that, very much like Snape: he's extremely capable and daring, but he's also emotionally cold and isolated. So why would he go back? Maybe initially because he's deeply twisted by what years of isolation on top of everything else has turned him into, so he's going back not simply to destroy Voldemort but to outright supplant him. But at a deeper, subconscious level, he's going because he desperately wants a human connection that he never got.

That kind of story intrigues me. It'd be hard to pull it off, because somehow you have to convey to the audience the mental time loop OHP performed, the effects that a timeline that they've never seen had on him, and the way that causes deeply disturbing results in the here and now without completely skeeving off the audience. That's not an easy hat trick to pull off. But it does make for a story idea that is worlds deeper than what we typically get with "Old character from HP regresses to a first-year Hogwarts student." And the emphasis, at least to start, has nothing to do with exploitation, though that may come into the story.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Some children's entertainment concepts work really well as more mature series. Pokemon is one that fascinates me, being about spiritual bonds between powerful monsters and humans (you don't even have to change much, just look at the pokedex entries of various ghost-types sometime). Though I have Pokemon Adventures for that (which is similar in tone to Fullmetal Alchemist manga/Brotherhood).

I barely know about Pokemon, but I don't really see any potential for legitimate maturity there. The only way to make it successfully "dark", from what I can see, is to point out the cockfighting parallels. Look how well that worked out for PETA.

I literally have no idea what a Fullmetal Alchemist is. I'm Googling it now. It doesn't seem like my kind of thing.

[The Glyphstone]

I barely know about Pokemon, but I don't really see any potential for legitimate maturity there. The only way to make it successfully "dark", from what I can see, is to point out the cockfighting parallels. Look how well that worked out for PETA.

I literally have no idea what a Fullmetal Alchemist is. I'm Googling it now. It doesn't seem like my kind of thing.

Well, there's also the fan/net-theory that the games take place after a massive war that wiped out most of the adult population. That's pretty dark, at least as a backstory element.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Well, there's also the fan/net-theory that the games take place after a massive war that wiped out most of the adult population. That's pretty dark, at least as a backstory element.

See, that's what I'm talking about. I don't understanding all this bending over backwards to put a dark spin on an optimistic property. You guys could just read Delilo or watch Tarkovsky or something. It's all right there for you to enjoy. No excuses, no fan theories, no twisting or distorting anything.

I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying I don't get it. It seems like an awful lot of effort when you could just, I dunno, start consuming things with a bit of maturity and depth? Strikes me if I'm playing Pokémon I'm in the mood for something light and easy.

[The Glyphstone]

See, that's what I'm talking about. I don't understanding all this bending over backwards to put a dark spin on an optimistic property. You guys could just read Delilo or watch Tarkovsky or something. It's all right there for you to enjoy. No excuses, no fan theories, no twisting or distorting anything.

I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying I don't get it. It seems like an awful lot of effort when you could just, I dunno, start consuming things with a bit of maturity and depth? Strikes me if I'm playing Pokémon I'm in the mood for something light and easy.

Well, I picked that theory (as opposed to stuff like the Ash Is Dying in a Coma theory, which I find pointlessly dark for the sake of darkness) because it doesn't take that much bending - but you don't have to take it as canon, since it obviously isn't. It lets the people who do like it continue to enjoy Pokemon, or possibly enjoy it more if they're the sort who like exploring and explaining minor details that the game itself ignores in favor of monster battles. You said you couldn't see any potential for maturity/darkness - that's one, and probably the easiest to implement. If you don't see the point, that's another argument entirely; trying to conflate one with the other would be moving the goalposts.

[Eonas]

This... may be a controversial opinion to have but why would somebody complain about the quality of fanfiction? If you really wanted real quality surely you'd just read, I dunno, Dostoyevsky or Tolkien or Aasimov or even bloody George RR Martin or something. Reading some random fan's scribblings and then explaining that it didn't meet your standards seems like spending time on Omegle and then complaining that you got paired up with creepshows. I mean, that's too bad, but did you honestly expect any different?

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Well, I picked that theory (as opposed to stuff like the Ash Is Dying in a Coma theory, which I find pointlessly dark for the sake of darkness) because it doesn't take that much bending - but you don't have to take it as canon, since it obviously isn't. It lets the people who do like it continue to enjoy Pokemon, or possibly enjoy it more if they're the sort who like exploring and explaining minor details that the game itself ignores in favor of monster battles. You said you couldn't see any potential for maturity/darkness - that's one, and probably the easiest to implement. If you don't see the point, that's another argument entirely; trying to conflate one with the other would be moving the goalposts.

I thought that was the point of the whole thread. I believe the question, from the beginning, was "Why not just move on up to something more adult, anyway?" A question that has yet to be answered.

[The Glyphstone]

I thought that was the point of the whole thread. I believe the question, from the beginning, was "Why not just move on up to something more adult, anyway?" A question that has yet to be answered.

That question I have no answer to. But then, I have no answer to why adults play Pokemon to begin with.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

That question I have no answer to. But then, I have no answer to why adults play Pokemon to begin with.

At the risk of becoming public enemy number one over here, I'm not entirely sure why adults play video games to begin with. But that's a topic for another time and, preferably, another message board.

[8BitNinja]

At the risk of becoming public enemy number one over here, I'm not entirely sure why adults play video games to begin with. But that's a topic for another time and, preferably, another message board.

Because video games are fun

Why do adults watch cartoons? There are cartoons catered to adults too

[Tvtyrant]

At the risk of becoming public enemy number one over here, I'm not entirely sure why adults play video games to begin with. But that's a topic for another time and, preferably, another message board.

Why does anyone do anything? So your brain will squirt happy juices. Oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins. Unless someone is a Kantian this pretty much holds true.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Because video games are fun

Why do adults watch cartoons? There are cartoons catered to adults too

It isn't that I think the topic of video games are juvenile, I just don't understand the appeal of video games.

Why does anyone do anything? So your brain will squirt happy juices. Oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins. Unless someone is a Kantian this pretty much holds true.

I kind of figured it was something like that. Video games don't do that for me and I lack the imagination to empathise with the people for whom it does.

[Tvtyrant]

I kind of figured it was something like that. Video games don't do that for me and I lack the imagination to empathise with the people for whom it does.

Basically video games give you clear and achievable goals, and then rewards you when you reach them. Imagine a hamster wheel that gives it a treat whenever it reaches a certain distance and you get the concept behind video games.

There is even efforts called "gamification" to make real life work more like games, because a lot of people do better in game style environments. There are also arguments about whether video games are actually naturally fun or if people are told they are fun and become addicted to them, which will become more difficult to tell in first world countries as more of the population is exposed to them as children.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Basically video games give you clear and achievable goals, and then rewards you when you reach them. Imagine a hamster wheel that gives it a treat whenever it reaches a certain distance and you get the concept behind video games.

There is even efforts called "gamification" to make real life work more like games, because a lot of people do better in game style environments. There are also arguments about whether video games are actually naturally fun or if people are told they are fun and become addicted to them, which will become more difficult to tell in first world countries as more of the population is exposed to them as children.

Should we continue or PM or start a new thread or something? You make a lot of interesting points I'd like to respond to but I don't think this is the right thread for it.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I barely know about Pokemon, but I don't really see any potential for legitimate maturity there. The only way to make it successfully "dark", from what I can see, is to point out the cockfighting parallels. Look how well that worked out for PETA.

I literally have no idea what a Fullmetal Alchemist is. I'm Googling it now. It doesn't seem like my kind of thing.

I would say that from what you've said in the past, your tastes are radically different from mine to the point where I can barely understand it, but you demonstrated that excellently in this thread anyway.

This... may be a controversial opinion to have but why would somebody complain about the quality of fanfiction? If you really wanted real quality surely you'd just read, I dunno, Dostoyevsky or Tolkien or Aasimov or even bloody George RR Martin or something. Reading some random fan's scribblings and then explaining that it didn't meet your standards seems like spending time on Omegle and then complaining that you got paired up with creepshows. I mean, that's too bad, but did you honestly expect any different?

Because books and fanfiction are all written by real people, fanfiction writers just don't have a printing press behind them. They also don't have professional editors, which is definitely something to keep in mind. I don't read fanfiction much, as I generally only read/watch/play/verb stuff that I've heard good things about from multiple people, it's not my style to just browse a bookstore and pick out something I've never heard of. (Fanfic does tend to suffer from more glaring pacing, dialogue and prose issues, even in stories where the writer has an alright grasp of the characters)

[DJ Yung Crunk]

I would say that from what you've said in the past, your tastes are radically different from mine to the point where I can barely understand it, but you demonstrated that excellently in this thread anyway.

My tastes are radically different from most people on this forum, I find. I'm mostly here for the Random Banter threads. I venture out every so often but it's a strange and confusing world to me. But it's fascinating to see how the other half live. I've had this video game discussion with a bunch of people on this here boards in the past, they recommended me a bunch of "art" games that they were convinced would change my mind on the medium. It didn't, as you can see.