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  1. - Top - End - #121
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sakuuya's Avatar

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    All you other slim shadys are just imitating.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Slender Shadow
    The Slender Shadow
    LN Heart-Aspect Dragonborn Lesser Tiefling Truenamer 1/Invisible Fist Cobra Strike Monk 2/Martial Focused Conjurer 1/Acolyte of the Ego 2/Swordsage 2/Acolyte of the Ego +1/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Acolyte of the Ego +7

    My name is…
    My name is…
    My name is…



    The Words
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    Ability Scores
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    Point Buy: 14 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 16 Int, 8 Wis, 8 Cha
    After Racial Adjustments: 14 Str, 14 Dex, 18 Con, 18 Int, 8 Wis, 6 Cha
    Increase Con at level 4 and Int at every opportunity thereafter.

    Level Progression
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    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Truenamer 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Truespeak 4, Concentration 4, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (History) 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 4 Kung Fu Genius Known Personal Truename
    2nd Cobra Strike Monk 1 +0 +2 +2 +4 Truespeak 4, Concentration 5, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (History) 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 4, Hide 3, Move Silently 3 Improved Unarmed StrikeB, DodgeB Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, Bonus Feat, AC Bonus
    3rd Invisible Fist Cobra Strike Monk 2 +1 +3 +3 +5 Truespeak 4, Concentration 6, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (History) 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 4, Hide 6, Move Silently 6 Darkstalker, MobilityB Invisible Fist, Bonus Feat
    4th Martial Focused Conjurer 1 +1 +3 +3 +7 Truespeak 6, Concentration 7, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 4, Knowledge (Religion) 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 5, Knowledge (History) 4, Knowledge (The Planes) 4, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 4, Hide 6, Move Silently 6 Blind-FightB Abrupt Jaunt, Fighter Bonus Feat, Ban Evocation, Necromancy, and Abjuration
    5th Acolyte of the Ego 1 +2 +5 +3 +7 Truespeak 8, Concentration 8, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 5, Knowledge (Religion) 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (History) 5, Knowledge (The Planes) 5, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 6, Move Silently 6 - Known Personal Truename
    6th Acolyte of the Ego 2 +3 +6 +3 +7 Truespeak 9, Concentration 9, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 6, Knowledge (Religion) 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (History) 5, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 7, Move Silently 7 Skill Focus (Truespeak) Morphic Cadence (Cadence of the Distant Step)
    7th Swordsage 1 +3 +6 +5 +9 Truespeak 10, Concentration 10, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 6, Knowledge (Religion) 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (History) 6, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 10, Move Silently 10 - Discipline Focus: Weapon Focus (Shadow Hand)
    8th Swordsage 2 +4 +6 +6 +10 Truespeak 11, Concentration 11, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 7, Knowledge (Religion) 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 11, Move Silently 11 - AC Bonus
    9th Acolyte of the Ego 3 +5 +6 +7 +11 Truespeak 12, Concentration 12, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 9, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 11, Move Silently 11 Desert Wind Dodge, Spring Attack (trade out Dodge per the text of Desert Wind Dodge) Resonant Voice
    10th Telflammar Shadowlord 1 +5 +6 +9 +11 Truespeak 13, Concentration 12, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 13, Move Silently 13 - Shadowsight, Shadow Jump
    11th Telflammar Shadowlord 2 +6 +6 +10 +11 Truespeak 14, Concentration 14, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 6, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 14, Move Silently 14 - Shadow Blur
    12th Telflammar Shadowlord 3 +7 +7 +10 +12 Truespeak 15, Concentration 15, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 7, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 15, Move Silently 15 Sun School Shadow Walk
    13th Telflammar Shadowlord 4 +8 +7 +11 +12 Truespeak 16, Concentration 16, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 8, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 16, Move Silently 16 - Shadow Pounce
    14th Acolyte of the Ego 4 +9 +8 +11 +12 Truespeak 17, Concentration 17, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 10, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 16, Move Silently 16 - Morphic Cadence (Cadence of the Thunder Drake)
    15th Acolyte of the Ego 5 +10 +8 +11 +12 Truespeak 18, Concentration 18, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 10, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 5, Hide 18, Move Silently 17 Quicken Breath Cadence Mastery
    16th Acolyte of the Ego 6 +11 +9 +12 +13 Truespeak 19, Concentration 19, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 10, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 6, Hide 19, Move Silently 19 - Morphic Cadence (Cadence of the Mighty Bull)
    17th Acolyte of the Ego 7 +12 +9 +12 +13 Truespeak 20, Concentration 20, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 10, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 6, Hide 20, Move Silently 20, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3 Recitation of the Sanguine StateB Alter Personal Truename -4, Recitation Feat
    18th Acolyte of the Ego 8 +13 +10 +12 +13 Truespeak 21, Concentration 21, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 10, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 6, Hide 21, Move Silently 21, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 6 Martial Study (Shadow Stride) Morphic Cadence (Cadence of the Prowling Tiger)
    19th Acolyte of the Ego 9 +14 +11 +13 +14 Truespeak 22, Concentration 22, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 10, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 9, Hide 22, Move Silently 22, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 7 - Alter Personal Truename -8
    20th Acolyte of the Ego 10 +15 +12 +13 +14 Truespeak 23, Concentration 23, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) 10, Knowledge (Religion) 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 10, Knowledge (History) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 10, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) 10, Hide 23, Move Silently 23, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 10 - Morphic Cadence (Cadence of the Living Fortress)

    Subsystems
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    As a Truenamer 1, the Slender Shadow gets a single Lexicon of the Evolving Mind utterance known. As normal for Truenamers, this utterance will be Universal Aptitude.

    As a first level Focused Specialist, the Slender Shadow has four cantrips per day plus three Conjuration cantrips, and a single first level spell, plus three first level Conjuration spells, before adding the bonus first level spells for a high Int score.

    Swordsage maneuvers actually require a table.
    Level Maneuvers Known Stances Known Maneuvers Readied
    7 Shadow Jaunt, Moment of the Perfect Mind, Distracting Ember, Cloak of Deception, Mountain Hammer, Cloak of Deception Island of Blades 4
    8 Insightful Strike Assassin’s Stance 4


    The Speech
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    “You wish to know about the real Slender Shadow? I’m afraid that makes two of us, young pupil, but I admire your curiosity. You will make a fine member of our order one day.

    It was the need to answer that question that first inspired me to join the Paragnostic Assembly. And even with all the knowledge I have gathered from the world around me, I always have another answer waiting when I turn back inward.

    I suppose the easiest way to describe it is by detailing the things I have found within myself in the order I found them. When I first cast my gaze beneath the surface of my psyche, I discovered ancestry from the bowels of the nine hells. The bloodline is now distant and dilute, but still, its fell order was established throughout my consciousness as far as I could tell.

    Yet this was but the surface of my self. While it took a good while, and seemed a tremendously difficult problem at the time, in retrospect, it was as if I merely scratched the grime from a single restraining chain, and found the dazzling gleam of platinum just beneath its surface. The call of Bahamut reverberated throughout my mind, and the oppressive horror that had seemed to be my entire being fell apart to reveal the depths beneath it. I am eternally greatful to Lord Bahamut for granting me the insight to take that step, and have served His interests ever since. Fortunately, the chromatic dragons and spawn of Tiamat guard troves of forbidden knowledge jealously, and are a threat to all humanoid civilizations and interests, so the north wind guides me along a path which accommodates my duties to the Assembly and to the Shadowmasters.

    The depths beneath were strange, and it was a long while before I could discern rhyme or reason for anything I heard there. I sought my true name in the void, and it seemed to speak a syllable from each direction, one as silent as darkness or from very far away, the next like the roar of a dragon or snort of a bull bearing down upon me. It was a long time before I could even begin to make sense of the noise all around me in my head, but eventually, I could sort them and their placement into a sort of pattern. I heard my name as the disparate facets of my mind and soul spoke it to me from all directions, and finally had a glimpse at who I truly was, and of my place in this strange, wondrous world.

    But it was only a glimpse, and as soon as I beheld it, I knew that there was further still to go. As soon as I could process the voices all around me, I knew in my heart the way toward the center toward which the speech was directed. It was like walking across a vast desert barefoot and naked, but I knew the oasis in the distance was not a mirage, and I pressed on. Finally, I reached my goal and found myself at the epicenter of my very being.

    The best that I can describe it is thus. I stood directly beneath a brilliant light and looked down towards the shadow cast upon the floor between my feet. I asked for the real Slender Shadow to please stand up, and he obliged.

    Understand, young one, that I am not vague out of a desire to preserve my secrets. Concealing knowledge from the order is forbidden, and I take that very seriously. But what I experienced defies explanation and all the knowledge that I have accrued in my years of study. Perhaps one day, I will truly understand and be able to teach this truth, or someone will be able to better articulate what they experience at the focal point of their soul, but for the time being, I do not believe that any living have delved as deep as I. For the present, the best answer that I can give you, is that I am the real Slender Shadow, and all the other slender shadows are merely imitators.”


    The Meaning
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    Level 5
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    No sense in sugarcoating it, the first few levels are a bit of a mess. We’ve got a lot of feat taxes to pay, and a lot of skills to keep up despite the fact that many of them are non-class skills more often than I’d like. I really wanted to make this build a human with Able Learner, but we need Heart Aspect Dragonborn for reasons that will become clear later, so I chose Lesser Tiefling for the stat bonuses. We’re already into the SI, though we’ll be ducking in and out of it for a while rather than rushing to complete it. Since we don’t have a feat slot for Knowledge Devotion, we’re mostly using knowledge skills to improve standing with the Paragnostic Assembly and to a lesser extent covering some of the non-creature related knowledges that are often overlooked. In addition, be sure to do whatever you can with regard to the roleplay options for boosting your Paragnostic Assembly affiliation.


    Level 10
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    Things are better, if still not great. We’ve finally made it through the brutal prereqs for Telflammar Shadowlord, with Cadence of the Distant Step filling the Dimension Door requirement and Assassin’s Stance granting the necessary 2d6 of Sneak Attack. Things are looking up, and we’ve at least got some solid stealth and a bit of utility to keep from being too useless.


    Level 15 (Sweet Spot)
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    We’ve picked up shadow pounce, and the most important trick in this build, Cadence of the Thunder Drake+Quicken Breath+Cadence Mastery. Here’s how it all shakes out. Cadence of the Thunder Drake is a breath weapon, therefore the never-errata’d Quicken Breath can activate it as a free action. With Cadence Mastery, other cadences can come along for the ride, which means Cadence of the Distant Step shadow pouncing. Incidentally, this is the reason why the Slender Shadow needed to be a Heart Aspect Dragonborn. I needed a breath weapon with a recharge time expressed in rounds to qualify for Quicken Breath, as it’s a [Metabreath] feat. This would be a pretty nifty combo on its own, but there’s one more question that needs asking. What happens when you fail the truespeak check for a Quickened Breath Cadence of the Thunder Drake? It could be argued that you simply can’t attempt a Cadence of the Thunder Drake for 4 rounds, but I would argue that since you haven’t actually used your breath weapon in that case, the increase in recharge time before you can use it again doesn’t come into play and you can just keep trying without any of the Law of Sequence-esque penalties, because of how truespeak checks work. So by my reading, the only thing stopping you from taking 20 on a free action check to turn on all your Morphic Cadence buffs, blast a 20ft cone with a small amount of sonic damage, and teleport yourself up to some enemy for a shadow pounce once per 4 rounds (so basically once per encounter), is your DM limiting the number of free actions you can take. We’ve also got Abrupt Jaunt, Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Jump, and a few low level Wizard Spells with which to generate shadow pounces. The bread and butter option is of course, Benign Transposition, but since we’ve put effort into pumping our truespeak check, we should also give some consideration to Scramble True Position. The randomness is somewhat problematic, but with a longspear and unarmed strikes, you’ll always be able to reach someone who you start out adjacent to if you can get your reach increased another 5 ft, and if you’re on a team of shadow pouncers, the ability to throw a short teleport to everyone in a 10ft circle certainly has potential to be great.


    Level 20
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    We pick up a few more buffs through our remaining Morphic Cadences and an extra shadow pounce on our move action through Martial Study (Shadow Stride) - achieving the holy grail that is a four shadow pounce round - to make the Slender Shadow better at what he already does.


    Uses of WBL
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    A +10 truespeak item is as high on the wish list as ever for truenamers.

    A Necklace of Natural Attacks for your unarmed strikes and maybe a decent longspear to extend your reach. If you can get your reach extended 5 ft further in some fashion (if you subscribe to the interpretation that maneuver items can carry stances, an Iron Heart Vest of Dancing Blade Form and two prereq maneuvers will work), that will give you the reach to shadow pounce reliably with Scramble True Position.

    You can use spell trigger items of wizard spells, so enjoy doing so.

    Int and Str are the big stats that need boosting. Con and Dex are high enough for qualification purposes, which is the primary concern.

    You’ve got to give the Paragnostic Assembly a percentage of your wealth as a truenaming tax, just resign yourself to that fact.


    Adaptations
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    If you use fractional BAB, the Slender Shadow will get the lauded 4th iterative.

    You can get Blind-Fight through the Darkness or Shadow Domains with a Cloistered Cleric dip instead of Martial Wizard if you really want Knowledge Devotion. However, the need for Dragonborn makes getting those domains a little awkward without your backstory involving some manner of deific team up, as Bahamut does not offer them. Hit-and-Run Fighter 1 is another dip I'm fond of for Shadow Pouncing, and that would get your BAB to 16 at level 20. Either of these would cost you access to Benign Transposition and Abrupt Jaunt, though, and I don't really think it's worth it, personally.

    If your DM lets you qualify for Craven with Assassin’s Stance (it's technically not a class ability, so RAW is against it), take that instead of Martial Study and use an eternal wand of Heroics or a Shadow Hand item to get the maneuver.

    I really, really wanted Able Learner in this build, because so many important skills are cross class so often, but I needed to go Dragonborn for Quicken Breath. If you can get a breath weapon with recharge in rounds through the Metabolic Fire graft in Races of the Dragon, then I’d go with human for Able Learner and just rejigger the point buy a bit (something like 14 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 16 Int, 8 Wis, 8 Cha with Con boosted at 4th, 8th, and 12th or just boosted at 4th then improved to 19 with a +2 item).

    If you can take flaws or use the Chaos Shuffle on that damn recitation feat, the I’d really like to have gotten Shadow Blade and a few other feats (maybe Knowledge Devotion with skill points rejiggered for better creature identification) into this build. You could also get Able Learner as a Dragonborn Human with a flaw or by delaying becoming Dragonborn until later levels. If you delayed it all the way until you got the recitation feat, you could trade that out instead, but that's unfortunately after you need dragonborn to qualify for Quicken Breath.


    The Dictionary
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    Complete Champion: Paragnostic Assembly
    Complete Mage: Focused Specialist
    Complete Warrior: Sun School
    Draconomicon: Quickened Breath
    Dragon Compendium: Kung Fu Genius
    Exemplars of Evil: Invisible Fist
    Lords of Madness: Darkstalker
    Player’s Guide to Faerun: Lesser Planetouched
    Player’s Handbook II: Abrupt Jaunt Wizard Variant
    Races of the Dragon: Dragonborn of Bahamut
    Spell Compendium: Benign Transposition
    Tome of Battle: Desert Wind Dodge, Martial Study, Swordsage
    Tome of Magic: Acolyte of the Ego, Recitation of the Sanguine State, Truenamer, Scramble True Position
    Unapproachable East: Telflammar Shadowlord
    Everything else should be in the SRD.

  2. - Top - End - #122
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sakuuya's Avatar

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Oh, hey! I almost didn't see you there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astrea Theodosia
    Astraea Theodosia, Master of the Passive Way
    Kalashtar Arcane Stunt Swashbuckler 3/Passive Way Kalashtar Invisible Fist Monk 3/Acolyte of the Ego 10/Uncanny Trickster 3
    Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 8
    All level bonuses go into Intelligence

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    Level by Level Progression
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    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skill Ranks Feats Class Features
    1st Swashbuckler 1 +1 +2 +0 +0 Bluff 4, Diplomacy 4, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 2, Sense Motive 4, Truespeak 2, Tumble 4 Skill Focus (Bluff) Weapon Finesse
    2nd Swashbuckler 2 +2 +3 +0 +0 Bluff 5, Diplomacy 5, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 2, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 1, Sense Motive 5, Truespeak 2.5, Tumble 5 - Arcane Stunt (blur, 1+Int/day)
    3rd Passive Way Kalashtar Monk 1 +2 +5 +2 +2 Bluff 5.5, Diplomacy 6, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 1, Sense Motive 6, Truespeak 3, Tumble 6 Carmendine Monk AC Bonus, Combat Expertise, Psychic Insight, Unarmed Strike
    4th Passive Way Kalashtar Monk 2 +3 +6 +3 +3 Bluff 6, Diplomacy 7, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 4, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 1, Sense Motive 7, Truespeak 3.5, Tumble 7 - Invisible Fist (1/3 rds)
    5th Passive Way Kalashtar Monk 3 +4 +6 +3 +3 Bluff 6.5, Diplomacy 8, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 5, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 1, Sense Motive 8, Truespeak 4, Tumble 8 - Fast Movement (+10'), Still Mind
    6th Swashbuckler 3 +5 +6 +4 +4 Bluff 6.5, Diplomacy 9, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 6, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 1, Sense Motive 9, Truespeak 9, Tumble 9 Truename Training Insightful Strike
    7th Acolyte of the Ego 1 +6 +8 +4 +4 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 10, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 7, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 2, Sense Motive 10, Truespeak 10, Tumble 9 - Know Personal Truename
    8th Acolyte of the Ego 2 +7 +8 +4 +4 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 11, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 8, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 3, Sense Motive 11, Truespeak 11, Tumble 9 - Cadence: Thunder Drake (2d6/cadence sonic damage)
    9th Acolyte of the Ego 3 +8 +9 +5 +5 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 12, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 9, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4, Sense Motive 12, Truespeak 12, Tumble 9 Knowledge Devotion Resonant Voice
    10th Acolyte of the Ego 4 +9 +9 +5 +5 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 12, Knowledge (Arcana, Religion) 10, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 5, Sense Motive 13, Truespeak 13, Tumble 9 - Cadence: Swallowed Spell (15+2/cadence SR)
    11th Exemplar 1 +9 +9 +5 +7 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 14, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Religion) 10, Sense Motive 14, Truespeak 14, Tumble 9 - Skill Artistry (+4 Truespeak), Skill Mastery (Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (Arcana), Sense Motive, Truespeak, Tumble)
    12th Acolyte of the Ego 5 +10 +10 +5 +7 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 15, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Religion) 10, Knowledge (History) 3, Sense Motive 15, Truespeak 15, Tumble 9.5 Superior Unarmed Strike Cadence Mastery
    13th Acolyte of the Ego 6 +11 +10 +6 +8 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 16, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Religion) 10, Knowledge (History) 6, Sense Motive 16, Truespeak 16, Tumble 10 - Cadence: Distant Step (teleport 100'/cadence), Recitation of the Sanguine State
    14th Acolyte of the Ego 7 +12 +11 +6 +8 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 17, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Religion) 10, Knowledge (History) 9, Sense Motive 17, Truespeak 17, Tumble 10.5 - Alter Personal Truename (-4)
    15th Acolyte of the Ego 8 +13 +11 +6 +8 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 18, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Religion) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 2, Sense Motive 18, Truespeak 18, Tumble 11 Snap Kick Cadence: Living Fortress (20% fortification/cadence)
    16th Acolyte of the Ego 9 +14 +12 +7 +9 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 19, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Religion, The Planes) 10, Knowledge (The Planes) 6, Sense Motive 19, Truespeak 19, Tumble 11.5 - Alter Personal Truename (-8)
    17th Acolyte of the Ego 10 +15 +12 +7 +9 Bluff 8, Diplomacy 20, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Religion, The Planes) 10, Sense Motive 20, Truespeak 20, Tumble 12 - Cadence: Prowling Tiger (insight to Dex = cadences)
    18th Uncanny Trickster 1 +15 +12 +9 +9 Bluff 12, Diplomacy 21, Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Religion, The Planes) 10, Sense Motive 21, Truespeak 21, Tumble 18 Skill Focus (Truespeak) Bonus Trick (Back On Your Feet), Favorite Trick (Collector of Stories)
    19th Uncanny Trickster 2 +16 +12 +10 +9 Bluff 21, Diplomacy 22, Knowledge Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, History, Religion, The Planes) 10, Sense Motive 22, Truespeak 22, Tumble 19 - Bonus Trick (Acrobatic Backstab), Favorite Trick (Acrobatic Backstab), +1 level of Acolyte of the Ego features (no effect)
    20th Uncanny Trickster 3 +17 +13 +10 +10 Bluff 22, Diplomacy 22, Knowledge (Arcana, Architecture and Engineering, Dungeoneering, History, Religion, The Planes) 10, Sense Motive 22, Truespeak 23, Tumble 20 - Bonus Trick (Tumbling Crawl), Favorite Trick (Nimble Stand), +1 level of Acolyte of the Ego features (Cadence: Ursine Heart (insight to CON = cadences))
    Note: The skills column is her ranks in a particular skill, not her total bonus.



    Adjunct Table: Misc Bonuses
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    Level Paragnostic Assembly Rank Paragnostic Assembly Abilities Equipment (tabulated) Skill Tricks Effective Truespeak Bonus Initial Cadence DC
    1st 1 - - - +6
    2nd 2 - - - +6
    3rd 2 Paragnostic Assembly - - +7
    4th 3 - - - +7
    5th 5 - Circlet of intellect +2 - +9
    6th 6 Paragnostic Scholar - - +19
    7th 6 - Greater amulet of the silver tongue - +30
    8th 7 - - Group Fake-Out +32 29
    9th 7 - - Collector of Stories +33 31
    10th 11 Sage of Worldly Matters Circlet of intellect +4 Social Recovery +35 33
    11th 12 - - Nimble Stand +40 35
    12th 13 - - - +41 37
    13th 14 - Circlet of intellect +6 - +42 39
    14th 15 - - - +44 41
    15th 16 Seeker of Unseen Words - - +45 43
    16th 18 - Tome of clear thought +1 - +47 45
    17th 19 - Tome of clear thought +2 - +49 47
    18th 20 - Tome of clear thought +3 - +53 49
    19th 20 - Tome of clear thought +4 - +55 51
    20th 23 Master of the Unturned Page Tome of clear thought +5 - +57 53
    EQUIPMENT NOT ON THIS TABLE IS NOT ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE ABOVE STATISTICS


    Overall: With near full-ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive, Astraea makes a capable point-of-contact character despite having an average Charisma score. While capable of fighting alone, Astraea really only begins to shine when in a group, as she is able to move to the rear of the enemy's line very easily to take out archers or similar sniping opponents. Alternatively, she can move into a flanking position invisibly to support her allies and is capable of subterfuge despite not having a rank in Hide or Move Silently. She has a better-than-average Base Attack Bonus and strong base values for all saving throws, making her a capable combatant, and she gains rather effective Spell Resistance, crit immunity, and several forms of non-AC defense.

    5th Level: At this level, Astraea has just begun her journey down the Path of the Passive Way.She has begun her training in Truespeech, but is so far unable to actually utilize any truename magic. Despite this, her monastic training has shown her how to become invisible for brief periods, defend herself intelligently, and briefly make herself more difficult to hit.

    Game statistics: Astraea wields a kama +1 and uses Improved Trip as her primary combat mechanism. When faced with a challenging opponent, she uses blur defensively (up to 5 times per day, activable as a swift action and lasting 1 round). She uses her Dexterity modifier to attack and adds her Intelligence modifier to her unarmored Armor Class. Against multiple opponents, she makes frequent use of Invisible Fist, turning invisible for 1 round out of every three, generally tripping an opponent while invisible if she can. If forced into a grapple, she spends power points to augment her grapple check.

    7th Level: At this level, Astraea has started down the path of the Ego, better learning oneself through the understanding of one's truename. She has joined the Paragnostic Assembly to aid her in this path of enlightenment, and they both have much knowledge to offer one another.

    Game statistics: Astraea still wields her kama +1, having saved up quite a great deal of money to purchase a greater amulet of the silver tongue. However, she now adds her Intelligence modifier to her damage rolls. She knows her truename, but is unable to speak it with cadences at this point. Her attack patterns remain unchanged.

    11th Level: At this level, Astraea has moved down her chosen path of enlightenment, gaining access to the Paragnostic Assembly's libraries of knowledge due to the information she has shared with them. She has learned how to intone her truename with two different cadences, both of which she uses to good effect. In addition, her practice with truespeech has given her some ability to speak it without thought.

    Game statistics: Astraea now knows how to speak two cadences, Thunder Drake and Swallowed Spell. Thunder Drake allows her to breathe a cone of sonic damage, inflicting 4d6 sonic to all creatures in a 20' cone (save DC 18 for half), while Swallowed Spell grants her Spell Resistance 19 for 4 rounds. She may speak any cadence twice before she even has to roll a Truespeak check, but she is also allowed to take 10 on Truespeak checks due to her Skill Mastery. As such, she may in reality use both cadences up to eight times per day before she needs to begin making Truespeak checks.

    15th Level: Astraea's knowledge of her truename allows her to teleport herself short distances and mitigate potentially lethal attacks. In addition, she has used truespeak enough that her personal truename has begun to warp and shift, making it more difficult for others to make user of it for their own ends.

    Game statistics: Astraea may now cleanse poison from her body. She has learned two more cadences: Distant Step and Living Fortress. Thunder Drake now deals 8d6 sonic damage in a 20' cone (save DC 28 for half), Swallowed Spell now grants her Spell Resistance 23 for 8 rounds, Distant Step lets her teleport up to 400', and Living Fortress grants her 80% immunity to crits and precision damage for 8 rounds. Between her ability to blur herself, Living Fortress, and Invisible Fist, she is a very difficult target to pin down. By taking 10 on her Truespeak checks, she may use any of her cadences up to seven times in a day before she needs to roll. Alternatively, she may speak three cadences concurrently if she has not used them earlier in the day without needing to roll her check: when she does so, she usually turns invisible as an immediate action, then concurrently speaks Living Fortress, Distant Step, and Thunder Drake to move into position, increase her defenses, and then unleash an unexpected attack.

    20th Level: Having mastered the Passive Way, Astraea requested access to the Paragnostic Assembly's restricted libraries and was granted access. She is smart--very smart--and almost impossible to catch if she doesn't want to be. Her personal truename has continued to warp and shift, making it very difficult for others to utilize it.

    Game statistics: Astraea knows six cadences (having learned Prowling Tiger and Ursine Heart), more than the typical Acolyte of the Ego learns. Thunder Drake deals 12d6 damage (save DC 36 for half). Distant Step transports her up to 600'. Living Fortress grants complete immunity to crits and precision damage for 12 rounds. Swallowed Spell provides Spell Resistance 27 for 12 rounds. Prowling Tiger and Ursine Heart provide her a +6 insight bonus to Dexterity and Constitution, respectively. When utilizing Ursine Heart, the save DC for Thunder Drake increases to 39. By taking 10 on her Truespeak checks, she may use any of her cadences up to eight times in a day before she needs to roll. Generally she uses Invisible Fist to turn invisible, then concurrently activates Distant Step, Prowling Tiger, and Ursine Heart to move somewhere hidden, then on her next turn concurrently activates Living Fortress and Swallowed Spell.

    Note: Most of Astraea's statistics presented in the preceding paragraphs treat her as largely unequipped: aside from the items mentioned in the adjunct table (greater amulet of the silver tongue, circlet of intellect, and tome of clear thought), Astraea's equipment is fairly fluid. She carries a kama +1 (or better, at higher levels, probably finishing out at a screaming stunning shattermantle kama of collision +1), wears no armor, and could make use of a number of standard adventurer kit items (such as a source of flight) that have not been described here as they are not intrinsic to the character's function.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    And that's yer lot! If I messed up anyone's build, please let me know and I'll fix it.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    hey thanks a lot for posting. looks like a weird round.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
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  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Huh. Everyone has levels in either Binder or Monk. Interesting.

    As always, the waiting is the hardest part. I'm looking forward to the judging!
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    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    And, as always, even with all the time I had to potentially edit and fiddle with my build, I noticed a means to improve it immediately after the reveal. Oh well, I'm still pretty happy with it.

    Iron Chef Medals
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    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by WhamBamSam View Post
    And, as always, even with all the time I had to potentially edit and fiddle with my build, I noticed a means to improve it immediately after the reveal. Oh well, I'm still pretty happy with it.
    that's the life of an iron chef.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Wasn't there one from the other contest that was supposed to be entered in both?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    Wasn't there one from the other contest that was supposed to be entered in both?
    here is a link to Jacamo
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Aye, relytdan got banned, so she couldn't submit the build again. Here it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacamo
    Jacamo

    CN: Human: Jester 6/ Acolyte of the Ego 7/ Lasher 7

    Background
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    Background
    I am Jacamo, jester extrodinare! king of jesters & jester of the king. If it would please the court I shall tell you a tale that is without end.
    With his oratory & comedic abilities he spun a very good story along with his ability to disguise and alter his appearance it made for a very entertaining night.


    Character
    Spoiler
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    Abilities
    Languages
    Common, Draconic, Sylvan, Dwarven
    32 point buy
    str 13 dex 13 con 12 int 16 wis 10 cha 14
    4 int +1
    8 int +1
    12 str +1
    16 dex +1
    20 str +1


    Build
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    Build
    Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
    1st Jester 1 0 0 2 2 Climb 4, Craft (Leatherworking) 2cc, Disguise 4, Escape Artist 4, Intimidate 4, Perform (comedy) 4, Perform (oratory) 4, Truespeak 4, Tumble 4, Use Rope 4 Truename Training, Combat Expertise Jester's audacity +1, jester's performance, fascinate, inspiring quip
    2nd Jester 2 1 0 3 3 Climb 5, Craft (Leatherworking) 2.5cc, Disguise 5, Escape Artist 5, Intimidate 5, Perform (comedy) 5, Perform (oratory) 5, Truespeak 5, Tumble 5, Use Rope 5 Deflect Arrows Bonus feat
    3rd Jester 3 2 1 3 3 Climb 6, Craft (Leatherworking) 3cc, Disguise 6, Escape Artist 6, Intimidate 6, Perform (comedy) 6, Perform (oratory) 6, Truespeak 6, Tumble 6, Use Rope 6 weapon focus (whip) Taunt
    4th Jester 4 3 1 4 4 Climb 7, Craft (Leatherworking) 3.5cc, Disguise 7, Escape Artist 7, Intimidate 7, Perform (comedy) 7, Perform (oratory) 7, Truespeak 7, Tumble 7, Use Rope 7 - -
    5th Jester 5 3 1 4 4 Climb 8, Craft (Leatherworking) 4cc, Disguise 8, Escape Artist 8, Intimidate 8, Perform (comedy) 8, Perform (oratory) 8, Truespeak 8, Tumble 8, Use Rope 8 - jester's audacity +2
    6th Jester 6 4 2 5 5 Climb 9, Disguise 9, Escape Artist 9, Intimidate 9, Perform (comedy) 9, Perform (oratory) 9, Truespeak 9, Tumble 9, Use Rope 9, Use Magic Device 1 Power Attack, Snatch Arrows Bonus feat, Calming performance
    7th Acolyte of the Ego 1 5 4 5 5 Climb 10cc, Disguise 10cc, Escape Artist 10cc, Perform (comedy) 10cc, Truespeak 10, Tumble 10cc, Use Rope 10cc, Use Magic Device 2cc - know personal truename
    8th Acolyte of the Ego 2 6 5 5 5 Disguise 11cc, Escape Artist 11cc, Perform (oratory) 10cc, Truespeak 11, Tumble 11cc, Use Rope 11cc, Use Magic Device 3cc<ST:Assume Quirk> - morphic cadence (cadence of the mighty bull)
    9th Acolyte of the Ego 3 7 5 6 6 Disguise 12cc, Escape Artist 12cc, Truespeak 12, Tumble 12cc, Use Rope 12cc, Use Magic Device 5cc<ST:Whip Climber> Flay resonant voice
    10th Acolyte of the Ego 4 8 6 6 6 Disguise 13cc, Escape Artist 13cc, Truespeak 13, Tumble 13cc, Use Rope 13cc, Use Magic Device 7cc<ST:Back on Your Feet> - morphic cadence (cadence of the prowling tiger)
    11th Acolyte of the Ego 5 9 6 6 6 Disguise 14cc, Escape Artist 14cc, Truespeak 14, Tumble 14cc, Use Rope 14cc, Use Magic Device 9cc<ST:Acrobatic Backstab> - cadence mastery
    12th Acolyte of the Ego 6 10 7 7 7 Disguise 15cc, Escape Artist 15cc, Truespeak 15, Tumble 15cc, Use Rope 15cc, Use Magic Device 13cc Flay Foe morphic cadence (cadence of the ursine heart)
    13th Acolyte of the Ego 7 11 7 7 7 Disguise 16cc, Escape Artist 16cc, Intimidate 11, Tumble 16cc, Use Rope 16cc, Use Magic Device 16cc recitation of the saguine state alter personal truename(-4), recitation feat
    14th Lasher 1 12 7 9 7 Disguise 17cc, Escape Artist 17, Intimidate 13, Tumble 17cc, Use Rope 17, Use Magic Device 17cc - whip sneak attach +1d6, close combat, wound, whip lash
    15th Lasher 2 13 7 10 7 Disguise 18cc, Escape Artist 18, Intimidate 15, Tumble 18cc, Use Rope 18, Use Magic Device 18cc improved trip, Arterial Strike improved trip, third hand
    16th Lasher 3 14 8 10 8 Disguise 19cc, Escape Artist 19, Intimidate 17, Tumble 19cc, Use Rope 18, Use Magic Device 18cc - crack of fate
    17th Lasher 4 15 8 11 8 Disguise 20cc, Escape Artist 20, Intimidate 19, Tumble 20cc, Use Rope 20, Use Magic Device 20cc - lashing whip
    18th Lasher 5 16 8 11 8 Disguise 21cc, Escape Artist 21, Intimidate 21, Tumble 21cc, Use Rope 21, Use Magic Device 21cc Lunging Strike sneak attack +2d6
    19th Lasher 6 17 9 12 9 Craft (Leatherworking) 5, Disguise 22cc, Escape Artist 22, Intimidate 22, Tumble 22cc, Use Rope 22, Use Magic Device 22cc improved disarm improved disarm
    20th Lasher 7 18 9 12 9 Disguise 23cc, Escape Artist 23, Intimidate 23, Truespeak 16, Tumble 23cc, Use Rope 23, Use Magic Device 23cc - stunning snap


    Spells per Day
    Spoiler
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    Spells per Day
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st 2 - - - - - - - - -
    2nd 3 0 - - - - - - - -
    3rd 3 1 - - - - - - - -
    4th 3 2 0 - - - - - - -
    5th 3 3 1 - - - - - - -
    6th 3 3 2 - - - - - - -


    Spells Known
    Spoiler
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    Spells Known
    Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
    1st 4 - - - - - - - - -
    2nd 5 2 - - - - - - - -
    3rd 6 3 - - - - - - - -
    4th 6 3 2 - - - - - - -
    5th 6 4 3 - - - - - - -
    6th 6 4 3 - - - - - - -

    0-LEVEL JESTER SPELLS
    Create Water
    Daze
    Detect Magic
    Light
    Mage Hand
    Prestidigitation

    1ST-LEVEL JESTER SPELLS
    Animate Rope
    Disguise Self
    Expeditious Retreat
    Feather Fall

    2ND-LEVEL JESTER SPELLS
    Alter Self
    Invisibility
    Rope Trick


    Level Breakdown
    Spoiler
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    Level Breakdown
    Jacamo when not entertaining has a great talent with the whip and it is said he can kill a flea on a dog's back from 20 feet away without harming the dog.
    Jacamo has limited arcane spells to use along with his skills, tricks, feats and abilities making him fairly rounded with both combat & social skills.
    The Jester picks up Weapon Proficiency whip, which with the rope skills, tricks and feats makes it the tool or weapon of choice
    This build utilizes two unique SI's the Acolyte of the Ego & Lasher, it is felt that neither SI needs to reach its capstone ability to round out the build as presented which utilizes most of the effects of both SI's abilities.

    *OPTIONAL
    Elven chain
    Whip
    Whip-Dagger
    Standard Adventure Kit


    Sources
    Spoiler
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    Sources
    SRD
    Jester (dragcomp p36)
    Acolyte of the Ego (tom p204)
    Lasher (s&f p25)
    Quotebox
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    It's really interesting to see how some of these builds panned out. I see two shadowpouncers, a ranged skirmisher, a brutish rogue and a magical trickster. There's also Relytdan's whip-cracking bucket of laughter, but Iunno if we should consider that a breach of anonymity.

    That might be why Relytdan was so vocal in moving forward.
    The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
    Spoiler: CharOP
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    IC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
    IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
    IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
    VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
    JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
    ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by Muggins View Post
    It's really interesting to see how some of these builds panned out. I see two shadowpouncers, a ranged skirmisher, a brutish rogue and a magical trickster. There's also Relytdan's whip-cracking bucket of laughter, but Iunno if we should consider that a breach of anonymity.

    That might be why Relytdan was so vocal in moving forward.
    since she's banned and due to circumstances hers wasn't anonymous, we should probably just ignore it.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    You know, I think I'll try my hand at judging this round. Somebody's gotta do it.

    Spoiler: Criteria
    Show
    I'm not really one for the fine granularities. 3 is the baseline; it's fine. 4 is good. 2 is poor. 5 means you blew my mind and 1 means you just blew it. There is no 0.

    Originality: A good score in originality means you did something unusual or unexpected. A bad score means you did something boring. The fact that all the builds used Acolyte of the Ego means that the scores here flattened out a lot; it's hard to have a build that uses it and still feels "usual" or "expected" because I honestly have no idea what I'm supposed to expect.
    Elegance: Questionable rules interpretations, rules errors, cheesiness, and general awkwardness would earn you penalties here. Making everything click in a satisfying way would earn bonus points. There weren't a lot of bonus points this round. Bonus points in Elegance are hard.
    Power: If you made it to mid/high-T4, you got a 3. T5 or low T4 is a 2.
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: If you qualified, took all 10 levels, were competent enough in truespeaking to make the DCs, and didn't suck so hard that you made the whole thing look bad, you probably got a 3. If you did something nifty that helped justify it, you got a 4. Spoiler alert: nobody got a 5.


    Spoiler: Derleth Cruestus, The Wordsniper
    Show
    Originality: 3
    Well...it's not unoriginal, but it doesn't seem terribly unique either. Rogue/Binder/Truenamer is a weird combination of classes, but they also aren't really combining in an interesting way. I dunno. Uh...here, have a 3.

    Elegance: 2
    Despite being human, you still managed to pick up a multiclass penalty. The Psionic Shot line on a non-psionic character is also awkward--you qualify with Wild Talent, yes, but if that's what you're wasting your racial bonus feat on...well, it's awkward. (You could have at least used the House Adon version from Complete Psionic. Minor Creation is great for a poison-user.) And the move action to regain psionic focus is not a combo with the move action to reload your heavy crossbow. Also, you wrote out your entry in a really annoying way, which I'm not specifically penalizing, but it displeased me. So you get a 2.

    Power: 2
    You don't really do anything. I mean, you can maybe snipe a little, but you spent a ton of build resources on it and you're still not even very good at it (and I'm not giving you points for using a shocking flaming corrosive frost weapon, anyone can do that). And you have some skills, but you're still only at 4 + Int for most of your levels, so you're below par compared to other skillmonkeys. The Binder levels would help with versatility, but you committed yourself pretty strongly to a single vestige and you never get the ability to bind a second one, so you're making poor use of it. Basically, you can do a few things but don't do any of them well, and you're easily overshadowed by anyone halfway competent. That's bad.

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 2
    You took all 10 levels and you made the token investment in truespeaking, but the class has little to no synergy with everything else you're doing. I mean, you have abilities, and you can use them, and they do things, but mostly what they do is give you minor, low-impact buffs that you often won't have the actions for. In fact, as far as I can tell, for what your character is doing, it's pretty much worse than taking more levels of Truenamer, and that's saying something. I realize similar things can be said about some of the other entries because of how utterly dreadful Acolyte of the Ego is as a class, but your build falls under the "sucking so hard that you make it look bad" clause and theirs don't, so you get the 2.

    Total: 9

    Spoiler: Sabine Murkwoods, the Last Word of Krynn
    Show
    Originality: 3
    "Knowledge-focused skillmonkey with a pumped-up Truespeak check" isn't exactly breaking new ground, but Inquisitor is something you don't see much of. Overall, it's original enough for a 3.

    Elegance: 3
    I consider the Elder Evil thing to be on the cheesy side, but you did acknowledge that it's not integral to the build (and I agree with you), and it's not a huge boost in power, so you get a small enough ding in elegance and a small enough bump in power that I didn't bother factoring it into either score at all. I think you're generally on par here; nothing strikes me as especially elegant or inelegant. You get a 3.

    Power: 3
    Well, you're good at Knowledge checks, you have decent mobility, you're okay with Diplomacy, and you can sort of do melee combat a bit. Acolyte of the Ego is still bad, but you have Knowledge Devotion, Staggering Strike, and Power Attack doing some work for you, and it helps that your checks are easily high enough to simultaneously use all your buffs while teleporting into position. I think you managed to land in tier 4.

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5
    The elusive half-point. I waffled between 3 and 4 here, and I split the difference because your through-the-roof Truespeak checks are enough to put you above the baseline, but the fact that you're doing so little else with the class puts you below the entries that got a 4. (Spoiler: some entries got a 4.)

    Total: 12.5

    Spoiler: Benjamin Nutt
    Show
    Originality: 3
    Lucky for you, I'm not docking points for the Vizzini effect, Mr. Sneak Attacking Shadowpouncer Monk. Unlucky for you, I'm not awarding points for fluff, even though I was cracking up at your backstory. Band of marauding Truenamers. ROFL. But yeah, nothing strikes me here either way, so you get a 3.

    Elegance: 3
    I thought about docking you for using an obscure technicality to qualify for Craft Wondrous Item, or for putting down a non-Lawful alignment as a Monk, but they seemed so trivial that I couldn't bring myself to do it, especially once you got on my good side with your fluff. So no bonus, but no penalty either.

    Power: 3
    I think you met the bar in this category. Seems T4 enough. Your Truespeak check isn't as high as some of the other entries, but I don't want this to be a bean-counting competition. You have magic items and skill focus. It's adequate.

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4
    Shadowpounce seems like a good use of the secret ingredient. It isn't amazing, but it is definitely a nifty thing that helps justify it. Sure, have an extra point.

    Total: 13

    Spoiler: The Slender Shadow
    Show
    Originality: 4
    Quicken Breath caught me by surprise, sort of. I wasn't expecting someone to come at it from the breath weapon angle. I want to reward it. I guess there's a case that the extra point could go in Power or Use of the Secret Ingredient, or maybe it's only worth half a point, or maybe it's worth two halves split between categories, but eh.

    Elegance: 2
    I think using a breath weapon that you don't care about to qualify for Quicken Breath so you can apply it to a totally different breath weapon is inelegant. I also think you overdipped. I wouldn't normally penalize dips when there are no multiclass xp penalties involved, but in this case, it cost you your fourth iterative in a build that's optimized for full attacking, and that is awkward. Oh, power-wise, sure, it's not a huge loss, but elegance-wise, it's definitely awkward. Between the two, I'm docking a point.

    Power: 3
    Not much to say about this one. It seems on par with the other shadowpouncer. Solid T4.

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4
    I'm giving you the same score as the other shadowpouncer because you're using the secret ingredient in the same way. Okay, you had Quicken Breath, but I paid you in Originality for that instead. And I don't want to put this as a 5. It doesn't feel like a 5 to me. Anyway, bottom line, it's good. You get a good score.

    Total: 13 12

    Spoiler: Astrea Theodosia, Master of the Passive Way
    Show
    Originality: 3
    Swashbuckler was unexpected, but it's also boring, so meh. I'm calling it a 3.

    Elegance: 2
    You call yourself a Master of the Passive Way, but you never actually complete the path? You even have the Skill Focus (Bluff) and everything, which could have been doing double duty giving you your Passive Way thingy and qualifying you for Exemplar, but you abandon the style halfway through. What's the deal? Also, there is friction between Weapon Finesse and Improved Trip. You want to be tripping, but you also want to be Dex-based, which doesn't help your tripping. It makes the build feel less cohesive. And using Uncanny Trickster to progress a prestige class past its endpoint is sketchy stuff. All in all, I'm docking you a point.

    Power: 3
    Well, again, you are not very powerful, but you probably land in T4 near enough to the others. Some melee, some social skills, mobility, knowledges...it seems adequate.

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4
    Exemplar is doing for you what Inquisitor is doing for Sabine, more or less. So you get the same credit for having more reliable truespeaking checks. I'll toss in an extra half-point for stretching the secret ingredient further with Uncanny Trickster.

    Total: 12


    I think I'll skip Jacamo because of the aforementioned anonymity issue, but given that he didn't even bother to max out his Truespeak ranks, it's probably safe to say he would not have scored well, as I'm pretty sure he literally can't use his class features.
    Last edited by Troacctid; 2014-10-23 at 03:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    since she's banned and due to circumstances hers wasn't anonymous, we should probably just ignore it.
    Yeah, this. I deliberately didn't present Jacamo for the reasons you specify.

    EDIT: Suddenly, judging! Thanks, Troacctid!
    Last edited by sakuuya; 2014-10-16 at 07:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Even though I did not enter this round I had planned on a build that would have been in both contests. I missed the deadline for the Lasher round so I didn't bother to finish for this Acolyte of the Ego round.

    But just the same would that have meant that because the other round is over and done that mine would have been "ignored" because everyone would have known it was mine?

    I don't find that reasoning fair.

    Just my two cents on that.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by sakuuya View Post
    Yeah, this. I deliberately didn't present Jacamo for the reasons you specify.

    EDIT: Suddenly, judging! Thanks, Troacctid!
    sorry, I didn't check whose it was before linking. now everyone's talking about her again. oops!

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    Even though I did not enter this round I had planned on a build that would have been in both contests. I missed the deadline for the Lasher round so I didn't bother to finish for this Acolyte of the Ego round.

    But just the same would that have meant that because the other round is over and done that mine would have been "ignored" because everyone would have known it was mine?

    I don't find that reasoning fair.

    Just my two cents on that.
    the issue isn't anonymity, it's that relytdan was being disruptive and rude to everyone and has been banned, so there's no point in giving her any more attention.

    since it sounds like you didn't finish your acolyte, it's not that you want to enter it (if I'm reading you right) it's just the principle of the thing, which I can sort of understand.

    this is a weird circumstance, so I wouldn't worry about it setting a precedent.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    Even though I did not enter this round I had planned on a build that would have been in both contests. I missed the deadline for the Lasher round so I didn't bother to finish for this Acolyte of the Ego round.

    But just the same would that have meant that because the other round is over and done that mine would have been "ignored" because everyone would have known it was mine?

    I don't find that reasoning fair.

    Just my two cents on that.
    No. If you had submitted to both contests and then been banned, I would have ignored yours. For me, at least, the latter is more important than the former. Anonymity can sometimes be tenuous in these competitions, so that by itself wouldn't've been enough for me to not post your build. It's this particular weird combination of circumstances.

    EDIT: Aaand, Swordsaged.
    Last edited by sakuuya; 2014-10-16 at 09:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    the issue isn't anonymity, it's that relytdan was being disruptive and rude to everyone and has been banned, so there's no point in giving her any more attention.

    since it sounds like you didn't finish your acolyte, it's not that you want to enter it (if I'm reading you right) it's just the principle of the thing, which I can sort of understand.

    this is a weird circumstance, so I wouldn't worry about it setting a precedent.
    You are correct about it being the principle.

    Given the long time between I could have easily finished the build but it would have made little sense since I missed one half of the contests. I also had responded to sakuuya when she PMed me about if I had a build that I did not think it right for me to enter a build that I did not finish for the original due date.

    It was the way I had read how the build was known so it was ignored that raised my eyebrows.

    Quote Originally Posted by sakuuya View Post
    No. If you had submitted to both contests and then been banned, I would have ignored yours. For me, at least, the latter is more important than the former. Anonymity can sometimes be tenuous in these competitions, so that by itself wouldn't've been enough for me to not post your build. It's this particular weird combination of circumstances.
    I do recognize that since she was banned she could not have resubmitted to you--even though you can be pretty sure it was submitted to Kuulvheysoon. She was a very active participant in Zinc Saucier so I know how quickly she submitted builds.

    I agree about anonymity too. I'm sure the regular participants/readers of Iron Chef can usually recognize which builds were submitted by the usual suspects.

    Thank you both for clarifying.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Might I humbly suggest we move the discussion away from bannings?

    Nice entries, folks.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    Thank you both for clarifying.
    Sure thing. Thanks for listening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Might I humbly suggest we move the discussion away from bannings?

    Nice entries, folks.
    Yeah, I'd like that too.

    I'm surprised there are two telflammar shadowlords. I honestly didn't see that coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    I do recognize that since she was banned she could not have resubmitted to you--even though you can be pretty sure it was submitted to Kuulvheysoon. She was a very active participant in Zinc Saucier so I know how quickly she submitted builds.

    I agree about anonymity too. I'm sure the regular participants/readers of Iron Chef can usually recognize which builds were submitted by the usual suspects.

    Thank you both for clarifying.
    I should have probably made a note when I put up the builds why I was excluding Jacamo. I didn't because I was trying to avoid discussing banned posters, which, as you can see, worked super well. Ah, well, this is my first time doing anything like this, and it's a complicated case. I was bound to make a mistake or two. Sorry for the confusion, everybody!

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    I'm surprised there are two telflammar shadowlords. I honestly didn't see that coming.
    Actually, Telflammar Shadowlord was my first thought, too (though, obviously, I never got around to building anything). I'm more surprised by the two Binders, particularly since they don't bind the same vestiges.
    Last edited by sakuuya; 2014-10-16 at 09:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by sakuuya View Post
    I should have probably made a note when I put up the builds why I was excluding Jacamo. I didn't because I was trying to avoid discussing banned posters, which, as you can see, worked super well. Ah, well, this is my first time doing anything like this, and it's a complicated case. I was bound to make a mistake or two. Sorry for the confusion, everybody!



    Actually, Telflammar Shadowlord was my first thought, too (though, obviously, I never got around to building anything). I'm more surprised by the two Binders, particularly since they don't bind the same vestiges.
    it's all good. thanks for proxy chairing.

    I always expect binders in an iron chef. that and the inevitable druid 10/si 10 and the lycanthrope that everyone inexplicably loves :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    It is an interesting crop for this ingredient and not what I was expecting at all.

    I can say what I was going to do now. Didn't want to mention in the Lasher thread since this one was in Limbo. The build I was going to enter was going to be a human Ranger 6/Lasher 7/Acolyte of the Ego 7. Dual wielding whips and Ranger was my bridge class for the two SIs--both of them have class skills that the Ranger has as class skills. And the feat at first level Truename Training to make Truespeak a skill from Level 1.

    The coolest thing that I had written for the build combined both class features of the SI. The build would have used the Acolyte's cadence that caused fear and combined with Intimidation (since it is a class skill for both SIs). Once the opponents were cowered, the Lasher's third hand would conveniently disarm all of the opponents within reach. And since the build had Two Weapon Fighting already build in, it could have used one of those liberated weapons.

    Would it have done well enough in both contests? Can't say for sure. I really wish I did finish it in time.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    I tried so hard to make a monstrous entry, but I just couldn't get it to come together in a way I liked. I'm fairly happy with my entry, and I actually had some of the same misgivings about it that Troacctid did.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    It is an interesting crop for this ingredient and not what I was expecting at all.

    I can say what I was going to do now. Didn't want to mention in the Lasher thread since this one was in Limbo. The build I was going to enter was going to be a human Ranger 6/Lasher 7/Acolyte of the Ego 7. Dual wielding whips and Ranger was my bridge class for the two SIs--both of them have class skills that the Ranger has as class skills. And the feat at first level Truename Training to make Truespeak a skill from Level 1.

    The coolest thing that I had written for the build combined both class features of the SI. The build would have used the Acolyte's cadence that caused fear and combined with Intimidation (since it is a class skill for both SIs). Once the opponents were cowered, the Lasher's third hand would conveniently disarm all of the opponents within reach. And since the build had Two Weapon Fighting already build in, it could have used one of those liberated weapons.

    Would it have done well enough in both contests? Can't say for sure. I really wish I did finish it in time.
    I tried desperately to kludge something together involving cavestalker levels to TWF with spiked chains, but it was too messy and I couldn't figure it out in time for lasher.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    For ease of reference...

    • Derleth Cruestus: CN Human Rogue 2/Truenamer 4/Binder 4/Acolyte of the Ego 10
    • Sabine Murkwoods: LE Illumian Psychic Rogue 5/Inquisitor 4/Binder 1/Acolyte of the Ego 10
    • Benjamin Nutt: TN Human Human Paragon 1/Monk 2/Fighter 3/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Acolyte of the Ego 10
    • The Slender Shadow: LN Dragonborn Lesser Tiefling Truenamer 1/Monk 2/Wizard 1/Acolyte of the Ego 10/Swordsage 2/Telflammar Shadowlord 4
    • Astraea Theodosia: ?? Kalashtar Swashbuckler 3/Monk 3/Acolyte of the Ego 10/Exemplar 1/Uncanny Trickster 3


    I haven't read the other judge's awesomely speedy scores so as not to sway my own (which will be much slower coming), so someone else will need to do that if you want a standings table before my scores. Speaking of, sakuuya, what's our new judging deadline? Two weeks from when the builds were posted?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    I haven't read the other judge's awesomely speedy scores so as not to sway my own (which will be much slower coming), so someone else will need to do that if you want a standings table before my scores. Speaking of, sakuuya, what's our new judging deadline? Two weeks from when the builds were posted?
    Oh, yeah, I totally forgot. Judging/dispute deadline is 11:59 PM GMT on Wednesday, October 29, 2014. Thanks for reminding me!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    It is an interesting crop for this ingredient and not what I was expecting at all.

    I can say what I was going to do now. Didn't want to mention in the Lasher thread since this one was in Limbo. The build I was going to enter was going to be a human Ranger 6/Lasher 7/Acolyte of the Ego 7. Dual wielding whips and Ranger was my bridge class for the two SIs--both of them have class skills that the Ranger has as class skills. And the feat at first level Truename Training to make Truespeak a skill from Level 1.

    The coolest thing that I had written for the build combined both class features of the SI. The build would have used the Acolyte's cadence that caused fear and combined with Intimidation (since it is a class skill for both SIs). Once the opponents were cowered, the Lasher's third hand would conveniently disarm all of the opponents within reach. And since the build had Two Weapon Fighting already build in, it could have used one of those liberated weapons.

    Would it have done well enough in both contests? Can't say for sure. I really wish I did finish it in time.
    I would have gone with an 8/6 split. As long as you're not finishing Acolyte of the Ego, you might as well stop at the more natural break point, right? Not sure how Intimidate helps, though--Cadence of the Frightful Mind goes straight to the highest level of fear, so you can't stack it further.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    Scores!

    Name Judge Troacctid Total Score
    Benjamin Nutt 13 13
    The Slender Shadow 13 13
    Sabine Murkwoods 12.5 12.5
    Astrea Theodosia 12 12
    Derleth Cruestus 9 9
    Last edited by Muggins; 2014-10-16 at 07:12 PM.
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    IC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
    IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
    IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
    VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
    JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
    ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LX

    I might as well put these here...

    My Criteria
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    Each entry will start at a base score of 12 (3 in each category), with deductions or bonuses awarded based on the following questions:

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    Originality:
    • Does the entry present a compelling backstory, concept, or theme aside from the mechanics of the build?
    • Does the entry enter the Secret Ingredient through a method unique from the sample character in the source as well as other entries in this round?
    • Does the entry make use of any unique mechanical tricks/feat chains?
    • Does the entry avoid known cheese and overused optimization suggestions?

    Power:
    • Does the entry surpass a hypothetical build that continues in the base class used for qualification (i.e. does the entry follow established breakpoints for base classes or make a compelling case for the breakpoint selected)?
    • Does the entry function at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on "nova" powers or limited resources?
    • Does the entry thrive without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other "add-ons" for its power?
    • Does the entry contribute significantly in terms of offense, defense, and utility? Here an answer of "No" denotes that the build thrives in one or fewer of those three categories, "yes and no" denotes that the build thrives in two of those three categories, and "yes" denotes that the build wins the elusive triple crown--pulling its weight in terms of all three of those categories.

    Elegance:
    • Does the entry qualify for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient?
    • Does the entry qualify for all feats taken?
    • Does the entry avoid reliance on any questionable rules interpretations, as well as providing a list of source material while avoiding cross-setting material or material specifically disallowed from this competition?
    • Does the entry avoid multi-class penalties and dipping* more than once?

    UoSI:
    • Does the entry qualify for the Secret Ingredient and make use of all entry requirements?
    • Does the entry complete the Secret Ingredient or present a compelling reason why not doing so is actually a better use of the Secret Ingredient?
    • Does the entry synergize the unique mechanical abilities of the Secret Ingredient with the rest of the build and/or present a novel use of said mechanical abilities?
    • Does the entry complement the background, concept, or theme of its chassis through use of the Secret Ingredient?

    *Where "dipping" is defined as taking two or fewer levels in a base class or prestige class.

    Each of the questions above can be answered in one of three ways. A straight "yes" will earn a +0.5 bonus to the category in question. A straight "no" will suffer a -0.5 penalty to the category, and an ambivalent "yes and no" will wash out with no adjustment to the category. Other scoring rules (like a flat -1 penalty per Flaw used, for instance) will be followed as requested by the Chairman in the thread. If there are any questions about the clarity of my criteria in general, please post them openly so I can address. If there are any disagreements with particular scores, please PM the chairman as part of the regular dispute process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
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