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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Diving into Role Master blind

    As the title says, next Friday my group will be starting a Role Master game. Frankly, I don't know much about the system other than it is scary lethal and making characters takes a while.

    Basically, what do I need to look out for, are there any beneficial loopholes I should know of, and what are general guidelines for staying alive more than one session?
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    As the title says, next Friday my group will be starting a Role Master game. Frankly, I don't know much about the system other than it is scary lethal and making characters takes a while.

    Basically, what do I need to look out for, are there any beneficial loopholes I should know of, and what are general guidelines for staying alive more than one session?
    Hmm, now there's a good question or 3. Most people I encounter who played RM found it very slow - I had a good GM who made combat quick and fun, but this was 25 years ago...

    Anyway low level where combat is really lethal - an unlucky crit from an enemy will straight-up kill you. However, there are things that can be done about that. If you look at the critical tables they include things like "head strike, if not wearing a helmet effect X, otherwise effect Y". Yes helmets give penalties to your perception skills, but they can be worth it (X can be death) - and the same goes for gauntlets and good footgear.

    Next up - plan your character concept. RM does not support multi-classing, so you need the right class from the start (I favored Rogues for RM, though my Druid was fun too). You need to work out what skills you will be focusing on (note, weapons are skills) in advance.
    Spellcasting is fairly complex, and tends to require multiple skills - just casting the spell is one skill, attacking with a fire ball or a fire bolt are two different skills. This means that some care is needed in picking spell lists, otherwise the shiny new spell you get on leveling up may be one you cannot hit a barn with (let alone the door). Why did I like druid? - iirc the spells were not direct attacks so needed less skills.

    I cannot remember how one ups one's defense (I think it's a skill but you want it as high as possible - it will reduce the incidence of criticals against you.

    Lastly for stat generation read the rules. Any stat below 20 (I think) is a free re-roll. and you nearly always want to put your two lowest rolls on the class's primary stats. Why? - because you get to replace them with 90s. If have a roll over 90 it might be nice to put it on a primary stat, but it is generally more useful to put it on a useful associated stat and change a 30 or 40 to 90 for the primary.

    I would actually hope that the DM has pre-made characters for your first session - it will help you learn the system.

    Enjoy - it can be a great system with moments of extreme hilarity - such as the fight where two of the 3 combatants (barbarian v. 2 cave trolls) rolled the fumble "trip on imaginary dead turtle" in consecutive rounds, my character (one of the spectators) began to wonder if there was something there that she could not see!

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Khedrac View Post
    Hmm, now there's a good question or 3. Most people I encounter who played RM found it very slow - I had a good GM who made combat quick and fun, but this was 25 years ago...

    Anyway low level where combat is really lethal - an unlucky crit from an enemy will straight-up kill you. However, there are things that can be done about that. If you look at the critical tables they include things like "head strike, if not wearing a helmet effect X, otherwise effect Y". Yes helmets give penalties to your perception skills, but they can be worth it (X can be death) - and the same goes for gauntlets and good footgear.

    Next up - plan your character concept. RM does not support multi-classing, so you need the right class from the start (I favored Rogues for RM, though my Druid was fun too). You need to work out what skills you will be focusing on (note, weapons are skills) in advance.
    Spellcasting is fairly complex, and tends to require multiple skills - just casting the spell is one skill, attacking with a fire ball or a fire bolt are two different skills. This means that some care is needed in picking spell lists, otherwise the shiny new spell you get on leveling up may be one you cannot hit a barn with (let alone the door). Why did I like druid? - iirc the spells were not direct attacks so needed less skills.

    I cannot remember how one ups one's defense (I think it's a skill but you want it as high as possible - it will reduce the incidence of criticals against you.

    Lastly for stat generation read the rules. Any stat below 20 (I think) is a free re-roll. and you nearly always want to put your two lowest rolls on the class's primary stats. Why? - because you get to replace them with 90s. If have a roll over 90 it might be nice to put it on a primary stat, but it is generally more useful to put it on a useful associated stat and change a 30 or 40 to 90 for the primary.

    I would actually hope that the DM has pre-made characters for your first session - it will help you learn the system.

    Enjoy - it can be a great system with moments of extreme hilarity - such as the fight where two of the 3 combatants (barbarian v. 2 cave trolls) rolled the fumble "trip on imaginary dead turtle" in consecutive rounds, my character (one of the spectators) began to wonder if there was something there that she could not see!
    Well we're starting at level 1 as apprentices to...some people (the details are kinda vague) and hopefully going to do simple adventuring type things initially. Current character concept is a tanky Dwarf fighter (sword and board with heavy armor) with a backup being a knife-thrower or something. The current group consists of me (Dwarf Fighter), some variety of Human Magician, an Armsmaster (who is, due to out of game revenge seeking, on my just-give-me-a-reason-hit-list) and some variety of healer, along with one other person.

    I honestly fear that the extreme lethality present for low level characters will end up with me sulking and grumbling as I struggle to stat up a new character after the first of second session. I'm one of those people that get attached to their characters and don't like seeing bad thing happen to them once they're established...
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    I honestly fear that the extreme lethality present for low level characters will end up with me sulking and grumbling as I struggle to stat up a new character after the first of second session. I'm one of those people that get attached to their characters and don't like seeing bad thing happen to them once they're established...
    Armed combat is pretty lethal in real life, too, but lots of people still manage to live to a ripe old age. The key is "not to get in over your depth".

    Don't over-think the survival thing. Don't try to calculate detailed odds - if you have to do that, then just assume that the encounter is too dangerous and you should avoid it. Don't be afraid to run and hide.

    Of course, if the rest of the party insists on steaming in regardless then you might have a problem, but try to talk sense into them.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    I think the reaction to a perceived unwinnable fight will be "Well, good luck."

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    I honestly fear that the extreme lethality present for low level characters will end up with me sulking and grumbling as I struggle to stat up a new character after the first of second session. I'm one of those people that get attached to their characters and don't like seeing bad thing happen to them once they're established...
    It's not so much that combat "is extremely lethal at low levels" as combat "has a chance of being lethal at low levels"... This is true of any system with detailed critical and fumble rules, and not just for "low levels" though RM/MERP do have a reputation for killing low level characters unexpectedly (often by accident). Compare with Avalon Hill/Chaosium Runequest which killed characters of any power unexpectedly with lucky/unlucky crits and fumbles (my first character at Uni got all the way through a major questline the DM had written, then died to a speed-bump random encounter).

    Also for new players if the DM is experienced they may well fudge some of the dice rolls (such as re-rolling any instant kill criticals). Fumbles are not so likely to be instant kills (iirc the worst one is "severe groin strain, -75 to all actions, opponent helpless 2 rounds with laughter" which if you have allies and your opponent doesn't will kill the opponent!)
    Yes you don't have that many hit points, but most RM fights end of a kill critical anyway, not from hit point loss.

    Note, I may be wrong about the fumbles - that's just the worst one I remember, probably because it is so funny.

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    For melee, one of the first things to grasp is parrying. You'll have an Offensive Bonus (OB) from your weapon skill, but you can actually split that number between your attack and your Defensive Bonus (subtracted from enemy attacks). There's a minor bonus for going all-out on attack, and occasionally you'll want to do that, but quite often its in your interest to parry, to cushion yourself from crits.

    Beyond that, real world tactics will carry you surprisingly far, even without knowing the numbers. Flanking, rear attacks, attacks from higher ground all have bonuses, so if your GM knows the system at all he should be giving you those adds if you set them up.

    In general, never fight fair. If you're outnumbered, run away. If at all possible, talk to people, negotiate even with enemies. If you have to fight, use choke points and high ground to your advantage, use ranged attacks, use oil and fire and caltrops. (If they're not on the equipment list, ask for a price.) Even a tanky dwarf fighter should have some kind of ranged weapon skill. At least a thrown weapon skill (with spares carried), and maybe a bow or crossbow as well.

    Outright loopholes are mainly going to come in the form of Talents and Flaws. Its been too long for me to tell you how to optimize there, and its going to depend on what version and options your GM is using anyway, but see whats available.

    If Training Packages are available, take a good look at them and try to take one or more. They'll generally give you a break on skill point costs, although sometimes at the cost of not maxing out one particular skill at 1st level. I always considered that an acceptable trade.


    There's no way around spending some time on char-gen, unless your GM just does it on his own. However, the one good Rolemaster campaign I played in was surprisingly fast in play. I mean not just faster than you'd think given its reputation, but actually faster than most D&D I've played. Because in principle, its just roll percentile, add a number, look up on a chart. So what our GM did was photocopy everyone's most used attack and critical charts and hand those out, which helped immensely.

    So as your group settles in and people see what they're using, I suggest pushing for that. Print or photocopy everyone's main attack charts, with relevant crit charts on the back, and don't let your first session cap your expectations of how fast play should move.

    (I also suspect that GM was mainly using the generic moving and static maneuver charts, with the specific ones only rarely for major rolls, but that's going to be more a GM call.)
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    I really like RM if the GM uses tools to expedite combat/table lookup. (Laptop, or tablet or at least quick reference cards)

    Things to watch out for: heavy armour is only useful if you are proficient, and iirc it's mpossible to be proficient at low levels, so stick with lighter armour.

    Know your enemies! For example, heavy plate protects TONS vs a claw, but it actually makes you MORE vulnerable to lightning attacks! Likewise some armours are better vs certain weapons. If you're fighting orcs and trolls, chances are they have typical brutish weapons (maces and mattocks f.ex) so use armour vs that.

    Just like in real life, if you're not using a shield and someone shoots an arrow at you, you're going to die. Or get wounded for a few months. Healers are not like D&D were "I cast heal and voila, next fight!"

    The #1 rule to survive, just like in real life, is don't get into a fight, specially on the enemies' terms. Don't do stupid things like charging a band of orcs. If you have to fight, remember your defence will go to hell if you are being attacked by more than one person, since you can only defend (parry by shifting your attack bonus towards defence) vs one enemy per round. This is a lengthy way of saying, if you're outnumbered, you're going to die unless you have HUGE odds in your favour. (Magic, much better gear, higher level, etc) and even then it's risky.

    Seriously, avoid fights, try to solve problems cleverly and when you do fight, make sure you are the ones ambushing.

    Don't be afraid to fully turtle (shift most of your attack vs defence) to limit your opponents chance of hurting you. For example, if your armour only grants a max of a light crit (crit A) if the enemy hits for a max of 120, make certain that's the max he can hit you for on a good roll. If he can hit for more while turtled, RUN.

    fully turtling while your archer or mage cripple the enemy and only then going in the offensive will be your go-to strategy in general, but beware enemy archers and casters.

    Your mages and archers are crazy vulnerable to enemy casters and archers! Hence, again, ambush ambush ambush. If your going to engage in a showdown at the OK Corral, people are going to die.

    RM uses open ended rolls, which means even the level 1 Orc could roll a nat 95-100 and then get to roll again, adding the next roll to his previous. So yeah that level one Orc can crit and kill a level 20 fighter. The reason why it will never happen is because to reach level 20 the fighter had to grow a brain and avoid most such exchanges of blows, and used his skills smartly:

    He started the fight crippling the Orc with a thrown hand axe. If this didn't kill it, or if he was using a shield, a thrown net instead. Once the Orc is on the floor (-50 to hit) then he closed in and killed it.

    Also most RM GMs do not believe in "CR" encounters: so just because you run into a hobgoblin lair does not mean you stand a chance in hell to survive an attack. But you might be able to sneak in, steal valuable loot, and sneak out, possibly setting fire to tents in the other end of the camp to cover your escape.

    Likewise, luring the enemy under a ledge and then finally turning to "fight" and collapsing the ledge on them is the smart way to fight. Etc etc.

    I hope any of this helps. Let us know how it works out :)
    Last edited by SVamp; 2014-09-17 at 01:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    It's actually not that hard to dive into role master blind if you have a good DM I imagine.

    I don't really know any of the rules to role master, yet a played a whole campaign over the course of a year at it. (bare in mind I played a caster, so I don't really understand melee that much, other than it's generally a good idea to save some of your points(?) for defense rather than using them all up to attack).

    But I did have a character sheet built in excel that did most of the calculations for me. All I had to do was roll for stat increases when I leveled up plug in the numbers and put points into skills. There aren't as many types dice to roll during the game either. So once I knew what skills I had to roll to do the things I wanted to do, I was set.


    I think really role master is just deadly in general even at high levelsl if you aren't careful or just get unlucky you might take a critical hit and flat out die. Just to illustrate our last battle was against an army being led by a dragon. Our huntery person rolled super lucky and got one of the critical insta death's so the dragon was taken out because of one well aimed arrow.

    As far as magic users go, I think you normally only have one or two rolls? I had an extra roll to cast spells because I stayed in a wolf shape, and had to roll to be able to cast from my mouth rather than from my hands. I don't think I ever failed any of those rolls though.

    I found healing when I tried a healer type character in another game to be rather difficult because it's really specific on what sorts of damage you can heal and such.

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    So, general good ideas are:

    1) Parry/tankyness will save your butt
    2) Invest in all around armor (helmets, boots, gloves, etc)
    3) Fight dirty
    4) Fight cheap
    5) Ambushes, favorable terrain, choke points and the like are all legitimate, very helpful tactics
    6) Diplomacy may actually work to keep us alive
    7) Secondary weapons are always good (Gonna get throwing knives/axes)

    Anything else I may be forgetting?
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    This might help to give you an idea. Keep in mind there are no tactics being used in this video but it should give you an idea of how the combat works.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4M7WjRS9MDM

    Also, careful about just slapping on a helmet, greaves and such on an armour, you are essentially upgrading the armour type to the next class. Add greaves helmet and bracers to a metal breastplate and you are now wearing full plate mail, hope you have the skill ranks for it or you're going to die.

    Also, some weapons are terrible. Some are crazy deadly vs certain enemies, but brittle. Examples:

    Rapiers are crazy deadly.. vs unarmoured/light leather enemies. But they have a fairly good chance to break when fighting someone with a broadsword or a battle axe.

    Clubs suck. The only thing worse than a club, is an empty hand. Still unarmed combat can be an useful skill so you can parry/defend if your weapon breaks or you throw it and your enemy manages to close into melee range before you pull out another weapon. It's also a reasonable skill to have to not be defenceless in a bar, or if you do get ambushed.

    A nasty GM can penalize you with fatigue penalties if you're marching for a few hours with weapons drawn and full OB into DB to guard vs ambushes, but he won't be able to say anything if your weapon is sheathed and you're only using your adrenal defense and martial arts skill. Not worth it to specialize in, but I had some use for putting ranks into it when I could afford it.

    Incidentally perception is one of the most important skills you can have. At least one party member has to be good at it. And it can't hurt to have more if you can afford it. Even not-maxed, at least you get to make a roll and with open ended rolls, you could get lucky and sense the panther stalking you.

    For more real tips I'll need to break out my books, it will have to wait until I get home.
    Last edited by SVamp; 2014-09-18 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Why not try the new Rolemaster RMU (Role Master Unified) with streamlined and updated rules.

    Register at the forums and sign in to the RMU threads as a play tester and download the FREE pdfs. As a bonus the next iteration of the Beta rules is on its way...

    It takes care of a lot of the complaints above. It is easy to play, still hard to master. GMs are not restricted in using their imagination on what they can create and players may cross over professions if they want to spend the DP.

    The rules presented are more or less the basic rules, trying to be a basis for Fantasy, Modern and Future and only the set dressing will have to change (Races, Talents, Arms, Armor, Equipment, etc) to play a campaign.

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Quote Originally Posted by VladD View Post
    Why not try the new Rolemaster RMU (Role Master Unified) with streamlined and updated rules.
    Cause he's not the GM, and the game is apparently starting right away?

    I wish the new version well, but they're going to have the same problem the D&D line does. If you've got one version doing what you want, why shelve it?

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    That was just the problem: there were two versions, both RM, both very different. Rolemaster Unified aims to join the two factions once again. It might just succeed. Also it might succeed in stirring up some new interest because it has been streamlined and simplified to the point where it is not much harder to grasp than 3.5. It might actually have fewer rules and exceptions now then 3.5e.

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    The main reason the lethality by default goes down at higher levels is that, much as in other roleplaying systems, powerful healers mitigate much of the damage inflicted. I typically GM/play in a MERP/RM blend with very restricted magic (because by default MERP really has too much magic everywhere for what it's supposed to be doing, especially healing magic), and that is not so much the case there. Intentionally so! That's not to everyone's taste, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    1) Parry/tankyness will save your butt
    Parrying, definitely. Tanking... well, not as the term is often applied, certainly. Absorbing all blows against you is almost as bad an idea in RM as it is in real life. Nine times out of ten, criticals are going to be the end of a character, not hits taken -- concentrate on avoiding those criticals if you can. Good protective gear and tactics (as in, basically all of the rest of the points you list) will go far.

    Anything else I may be forgetting?
    It's not a bad idea for more than one person in the party to have at least some basic notion of healing, and carry suitable bandages and whatnot. You don't want everyone to start bleeding to death if the healer goes down.

    Look into weapons before choosing what weapons your character is going to specialise in. They have more differences than you might be expecting, depending on what system you usually play. Many have bonuses or penalties towards specific armour types or if used in a certain way, and some do secondary criticals. Some of them also have worse consequences for fumbling than others, and are more likely to fumble. Those things can all contribute to your tactics.

    To get more specific, I'd have to go and make completely sure of what are the actual RM core rules and what are MERP rules or our longstanding house rules, so I'll leave it at that. Good luck, and have fun!

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Well, on top of school stuff, I need to type of a character bio by tomorrow for a setting I know nothing of, and build a character by Friday for a system I know nothing of.

    Honestly I'm having reservations about playing Rolemaster. The last new system I learned was Palladium, and that campaign was, without a doubt, the WORST gaming experience I EVER had. And I really don't want to have to sit through sessions where my character keeps getting beat down, killed, resurrected, and generally not doing awesome stuff and getting the proverbial shaft.

    So please, someone convince me to play this system. Somebody sell me this system as something other than the perceived mystery box of brutal, gritty death.
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Like all systems it makes or breaks on the quality of the GM. With a good GM it is fast and fun, with a poor one it ... isn't.

    A for why Rolemaster? Well some might consider it worth it just to get to find out what some of the critical/fumble results are - depending on your snse of humour yes they are that funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    Well, on top of school stuff, I need to type of a character bio by tomorrow for a setting I know nothing of, and build a character by Friday for a system I know nothing of.

    Honestly I'm having reservations about playing Rolemaster. The last new system I learned was Palladium, and that campaign was, without a doubt, the WORST gaming experience I EVER had. And I really don't want to have to sit through sessions where my character keeps getting beat down, killed, resurrected, and generally not doing awesome stuff and getting the proverbial shaft.

    So please, someone convince me to play this system. Somebody sell me this system as something other than the perceived mystery box of brutal, gritty death.
    The quality of a campaign has much less to do with the system you're playing than with the people, especially the GM, you're playing with.

    If you're being asked to write a character bio and build a character for "a setting and system you know nothing of", then that's a danger flag right there. Talk to the GM, see if you can get answers to your questions. If he says "I don't have time, just read the books and do your best", then I'd be tempted to skip it entirely. But another thing he might say is "Don't worry about it, you won't need to know that for the first session anyway".

    As for getting beaten down, killed etc. - seriously, I think the lethality of Rolemaster has been greatly exaggerated. Yes, you can die - but that's actually true in D&D as well. There's no reason to assume it'll happen, unless you go about being blatantly stupid, like - well, like an average D&D character...
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    The quality of a campaign has much less to do with the system you're playing than with the people, especially the GM, you're playing with.

    If you're being asked to write a character bio and build a character for "a setting and system you know nothing of", then that's a danger flag right there. Talk to the GM, see if you can get answers to your questions. If he says "I don't have time, just read the books and do your best", then I'd be tempted to skip it entirely. But another thing he might say is "Don't worry about it, you won't need to know that for the first session anyway".
    I'll admit, I've had the Rolemaster PDFs and whatnot for a while but never got around to reading them due to a combination of work, school, excessive sleep and working on my own setting for an upcoming game. The DM has offered to make characters for players however, which I'm probably going to take him up on given my workload the rest of the week and that I missed the character-creation session due to schoolwork. The only glimmer of hope is that we're going to do some mock consequence-free battles to ease us into the system.

    As for getting beaten down, killed etc. - seriously, I think the lethality of Rolemaster has been greatly exaggerated. Yes, you can die - but that's actually true in D&D as well. There's no reason to assume it'll happen, unless you go about being blatantly stupid, like - well, like an average D&D character...
    *Sigh* I suppose I'll give it a try. Worst case, I can always bow out of the campaign I suppose.
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    Honestly I'm having reservations about playing Rolemaster. The last new system I learned was Palladium, and that campaign was, without a doubt, the WORST gaming experience I EVER had. And I really don't want to have to sit through sessions where my character keeps getting beat down, killed, resurrected, and generally not doing awesome stuff and getting the proverbial shaft.
    As others have said, the quality of the game will depend largely on the quality of the GM. I don't know anything about your GM, of course. If you've played with them before, and they tend to be a good GM, you're probably fine.

    So please, someone convince me to play this system. Somebody sell me this system as something other than the perceived mystery box of brutal, gritty death.
    I think Rolemaster is great. It's probably my favourite system, in fact. I do feel that it could use a few house rules, but I've not yet encountered a system that I don't feel that way about, and likely never will. I'm fairly particular about combat rules. I do feel that it can be house-ruled into quite reasonable and realistic combat, being fairly close already, whereas most systems can't.

    It's not for everyone, as in indeed most systems are not. Personally, the chance of actual persistent injury and death, as well as a variety of rules that I feel better represent reality than many other systems, are a large part of why I like Rolemaster. If you act with at least some caution, you're unlikely to end up with an out-and-out slaughter. Some of that, of course, also depends on the GM -- as in any game -- but generally speaking, if you take a more down to Earth approach to fighting (don't just charge into clumps of people, for instance), you'll probably be fine. I believe that people make much of how lethal Rolemaster is simply because if one uses the same tactics that people often use in D&D or other games, you will most likely end up getting killed. You really do want to avoid charging into battle and being surrounded, which is only reasonable. That's a good way to get killed.

    Basically, I would say that Rolemaster is great for any campaign which you want to be definitely a fantasy game, but be more grounded in reality than your average D&D game. It also works great for low-magic games, since the rules for everything else stand better on their own with most of the magic removed than do those of many high-magic systems. It may not be the best for a light and casual game; that's usually not the type of game I play in, so that's somewhat difficult for me to evaluate properly. You definitely need a good GM, but that's true of every system, so nothing new or different. It's also really not as horribly complicated as people sometimes make it out to be -- dependant somewhat on the edition and the books you're using, of course -- although it is more complicated than many games. It has a lot of charts, but then, so does AD&D. For someone with somewhat dubious math skills such as I, I actually prefer charts to formulas, and it's usually a question of one or the other if you want a robust rule system.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    For a melee combatant, one of the better things to get (if you can) is Trained Regular Footman. Gives you an extra attack as a martial arts sweep/throw. In Rolemaster, getting an additional attack is VERY powerful (And very rare).

    Lucky is also useful. Especially in multiples. Being able to modify any roll (which includes critical table rolls) that affect you by +/- 5 if very powerful as well.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    So, first session, already dead almost killed by rats.

    So very turned off by this setting that I don't think I'll ever willingly play again if I can help it. This just...terrible.

    And seriously, what the hell kind of system is it where "We should just burn down the old grain mill with the mastiff-sized rats in it to speed things up and keep us from getting, you know, killed" is a bad option?!
    Last edited by Silus; 2014-10-12 at 02:31 AM.
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    As 30 year veteran of the system I can assure you that in Rolemaster the better part of valor IS caution.

    Every instance in which the door is kicked in, will explode in your face. Planning, preparation and careful execution is a major part of any Rolemaster adventure. If you can plan for it, every combat should be an ambush and every combat avoided is big bonus points. It is almost like.... reality!

    As I am mostly the GM I always plan ahead of the players so I do not get any "solutions" like burning down the adventure site. Especially with a situation where the players are hired to perform the job, the owners will be looking over their shoulders and when the party is careless or blatantly sets the place on fire, they will be criminally charged and have to pay off the damages.

    In case of entering a place with monsters, do the best you can to minimize risks: stick to a good party formation, have the spell users enter the room with spells prepared or with a spell stored spell so they can react instantly.

    GMs should get a sense of power from the party by opening the encounter with a low numbers and introducing more as the players seem to slaughter them.

    In Rolemaster there are several professions, skills, talents and spell lists that are almost indispensible and make playing a lot easier. Invisibility is particularly powerful, but also shield mastery, attack avoidance and brilliance lists have some very useful spells. Get a hold of leaving and long door spells and elemental attack spells are very powerful and each party should at least contain a thief/ rogue, magician and a cleric/ druid/animist with the closed healing lists OR a healer or layhealer.

    It is a big pity if you simply disdain a RPG because you had one bad(ly played) session. Give the GM some time to get acquianted with the style his players prefer. RM is so versatile that it can suit many styles.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Quote Originally Posted by VladD View Post
    As 30 year veteran of the system I can assure you that in Rolemaster the better part of valor IS caution.

    Every instance in which the door is kicked in, will explode in your face. Planning, preparation and careful execution is a major part of any Rolemaster adventure. If you can plan for it, every combat should be an ambush and every combat avoided is big bonus points. It is almost like.... reality!

    As I am mostly the GM I always plan ahead of the players so I do not get any "solutions" like burning down the adventure site. Especially with a situation where the players are hired to perform the job, the owners will be looking over their shoulders and when the party is careless or blatantly sets the place on fire, they will be criminally charged and have to pay off the damages.

    In case of entering a place with monsters, do the best you can to minimize risks: stick to a good party formation, have the spell users enter the room with spells prepared or with a spell stored spell so they can react instantly.

    GMs should get a sense of power from the party by opening the encounter with a low numbers and introducing more as the players seem to slaughter them.

    In Rolemaster there are several professions, skills, talents and spell lists that are almost indispensible and make playing a lot easier. Invisibility is particularly powerful, but also shield mastery, attack avoidance and brilliance lists have some very useful spells. Get a hold of leaving and long door spells and elemental attack spells are very powerful and each party should at least contain a thief/ rogue, magician and a cleric/ druid/animist with the closed healing lists OR a healer or layhealer.

    It is a big pity if you simply disdain a RPG because you had one bad(ly played) session. Give the GM some time to get acquianted with the style his players prefer. RM is so versatile that it can suit many styles.
    It's not even the bad session that's a turn off.

    1) The sheer amount of bookkeeping alone is a major turnoff. Keeping track of money from Tin pieces up to Platinum, of all the bonuses and negatives you have for any given thing, and (the worst of it all) the whole "You get XP for doing anything". "Okay you dealt # hp damage, and you took # in HP damage and were knocked to -# while unconscious so that's half XP there, you knocked out X number of monsters and you got # of [Letter] crits and received # of [Letter] crits which is # for crits received and # for crits given. Now for skills..."
    2) Honestly I look at the whole "Well you have to plan and be cautious" and think instead "How has the DM planned out this encounter, and what is the right way to go about this?". It might just be the DM and the session, but this system is starting to scream "One-Way-To-Solve-It-Puzzles".
    3) The sheer lethality of the system is the biggest turnoff. Just...ugh.
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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    Well, like all systems, it's not to everyone's taste.

    I'd have to know more about the whole grain mill thing to really comment on it much, but I can certainly see entirely valid reasons for it to be a bad option (such as if you were supposed to be protecting the mill, or the grain, or something else in or near the mill). Torching a structure is, in most circumstances, a bit of an extreme measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silus View Post
    It's not even the bad session that's a turn off.

    1) The sheer amount of bookkeeping alone is a major turnoff. Keeping track of money from Tin pieces up to Platinum, of all the bonuses and negatives you have for any given thing, and (the worst of it all) the whole "You get XP for doing anything". "Okay you dealt # hp damage, and you took # in HP damage and were knocked to -# while unconscious so that's half XP there, you knocked out X number of monsters and you got # of [Letter] crits and received # of [Letter] crits which is # for crits received and # for crits given. Now for skills..."
    2) Honestly I look at the whole "Well you have to plan and be cautious" and think instead "How has the DM planned out this encounter, and what is the right way to go about this?". It might just be the DM and the session, but this system is starting to scream "One-Way-To-Solve-It-Puzzles".
    3) The sheer lethality of the system is the biggest turnoff. Just...ugh.
    1. The money isn't that much more involved than many systems, but I suppose it does add up a little bit. As for tracking the XP, I like to add an area onto the sheet (or keep another piece of paper nearby, if you're using a sheet that doesn't allow for it) and just write down the XP as I go. I find it's pretty easy to keep track of so long as you make a quick note part of the habit. It does take some getting used to, I suppose; back in my first games, in AD&D, we also had the players track such things, so I was already somewhat used to it. You could try asking the GM to track some of it for you, at least to begin with, if that's bothering you a great deal.

    2. That would be the GM and not the system, yes. The system has very little to do with the planning of the campaign. It does inform encounter planning to some extent, via how the rules work and all, but the method and intent of the encounter planning is all up to the GM.

    3. Matter of taste, there. That's possibly one of the things I like the most about it. I like the more realistic feel it brings to combat and planning.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Diving into Role Master blind

    You misunderstand. We have a separate tacking sheet, with tables, to track our XP. And even then we still have to find out how much we actually have, since we have to look it up ourselves.

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